ParniValjak
All-Star
You are forgetting that Thibs was an integral part of the coaching staff that led Boston to a championship. There is a pre existing realtionship between Rondo and Thibs back from Boston championship winning days.
KingsFanatic
Bench
Then we'll get another coach who will last 6 to 9 months, and then fire him too....Isn't that how the Kings roll? Although good luck finding a good coach. Since the Kings have a reputation of firing coaches left and right, I doubt any good coach will want to come here anymore.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
You reap what you sow. And in the NBA, the answer to that is more guaranteed money. Call it the price of listening to the wrong people for too long when you started. Time to give Vlade a clean start at this if this goes on much further.
SacKings384
Starter
There's not a coach out there that's going to be able to take over this team that's better than Karl. And that's not saying because Karl is good. It's because we've fired so many coaches it will be hard to bring anyone good here. Thibs would clash way too hard with Cousins. Scott Brooks would do nothing to fix our iso-ball woes. Nobody else really out there.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
We don't have iso ball woes.
Neither did Scott Brooks. He iso ball woed himself into perennial powerhood. Oh, how terrible. If only he'd gotten Kendrick a few more shots.
P.S. Cuz already knows and respect Thibs from the NT. In fact some of the D you see out of him is Thibs related.
This is all a pickle only because I don't own the team. It never has been as hard as our owners have made it look, but its why you should never get involved in an industry you don't understand. You will never see me trying to storm the fashion world of llama-wool burkas because I don't know anything about them, and I'm smart enough to admit that.
J
jdbraver
Guest
And yet you insist on the type of offense that was well and good in the early 90s but does not fit in today's league due to the way the game is called.
KingsCitizen
Starter
At first, I was really almost single handedly blaming this on Karl. But after a couple more games, I don't think he has much choice. Because Ben is clearly struggling and behind Marco, their is no one else there. So he pulls from his PG and since DC is a vet, Karl rides him rather than get questioned why Anderson is playing ahead of Ben or why Curry is playing ahead of Ben.
Clearly DC and Rondo is combo made for drunk folks that are a minute away from vomiting on their seats.
And after that, after DMC we don't really have any offensive big at PF that's good enough threat for teams to even respect. No disrespect to Quincy.
So Karl pulls the same trick, pull a Rudy or an Omri to man the PF because DC + Rondo does not offer much threat from the perimeter.
Blame it on Karl all you want. But I think we need some the players to man up and train harder to be respectable at least. And to balance that Karl needs to get the courage to man up as well and start playing Moreland more instead of Rudy and Omri on PF spot.
I remember when Adelman was around, if Webber goes down he will play Funderburke/Songaila or put 2 C (Pollard/Divac) before even calling Peja's card to man the PF spot. Well yeah! The game has changed now and not much team parade twin towers like the old days. But I think we're shooting our selves in the foot so far with the things we've been doing.
A big improvement on the SG depth can do wonders for this team because that would put Collison in the PG spot for eternity and not next to Rondo. Same goes for the PF spot because DMC has been achy these days.
Ben needs to get his crap together very fast and Karl needs to stop pushing our SF to PF. Moreland is a freak'n athlete.
Clearly DC and Rondo is combo made for drunk folks that are a minute away from vomiting on their seats.
And after that, after DMC we don't really have any offensive big at PF that's good enough threat for teams to even respect. No disrespect to Quincy.
So Karl pulls the same trick, pull a Rudy or an Omri to man the PF because DC + Rondo does not offer much threat from the perimeter.
Blame it on Karl all you want. But I think we need some the players to man up and train harder to be respectable at least. And to balance that Karl needs to get the courage to man up as well and start playing Moreland more instead of Rudy and Omri on PF spot.
I remember when Adelman was around, if Webber goes down he will play Funderburke/Songaila or put 2 C (Pollard/Divac) before even calling Peja's card to man the PF spot. Well yeah! The game has changed now and not much team parade twin towers like the old days. But I think we're shooting our selves in the foot so far with the things we've been doing.
A big improvement on the SG depth can do wonders for this team because that would put Collison in the PG spot for eternity and not next to Rondo. Same goes for the PF spot because DMC has been achy these days.
Ben needs to get his crap together very fast and Karl needs to stop pushing our SF to PF. Moreland is a freak'n athlete.
macadocious
Starter
Not sure where to put this, but last night I was told about a year ago the NBA sent a team in to help the Kings run their organization because the front office had gotten so bad. I don't think they are still involved.
John Galt
Starter
I'm mad at Karl but I don't think firing him will advance our cause. I think firing Karl will throw away the season unless a marquee coach is in the wings. But firing Karl to let Leiberman or Corliss run things... it is throwing away the season and will rightly humiliate Vivek.
Adelman, Thibs, Malone, - that's the whole list of acceptable coaches to replace Karl now. None of them are realistic.
Adelman, Thibs, Malone, - that's the whole list of acceptable coaches to replace Karl now. None of them are realistic.
I just can't comprehend the defensive philosophy Karl is trying to implement here. Our wing players are constantly "guarding" this empty area of the court between the 3 point line and the paint. If the ball gets dumped down near the paint, they immediately run over to double team....regardless of what the matchup is. All that player needs to do is kick the ball out for a wide open 3 point shot....which is basically a free throw these days.
Hell, said player doesn't even have to kick it out to the player who is wide open due to the double team. He can just kick it out to any of the wing players on his team for a wide open three because every single one of our wing players are 6-7 feet away from their man, guarding absolutely nothing other than open space.
The teams defensive strength is their big men. Cousins, Koufos, WCS and even Acy can all defend. Meanwhile, pretty much none of our wing players can defend worth a damn. So our coach, in all his genius, decides the philosophy he needs to implement is to HELP the good defenders on this team and make the weak defenders even WEAKER.
We aren't losing because Cuz is hurt, because Gay is playing poorly or because McLemore is invisible at times. We're losing because our defense is based on gambling and we aren't playing with house money.
Hell, said player doesn't even have to kick it out to the player who is wide open due to the double team. He can just kick it out to any of the wing players on his team for a wide open three because every single one of our wing players are 6-7 feet away from their man, guarding absolutely nothing other than open space.
The teams defensive strength is their big men. Cousins, Koufos, WCS and even Acy can all defend. Meanwhile, pretty much none of our wing players can defend worth a damn. So our coach, in all his genius, decides the philosophy he needs to implement is to HELP the good defenders on this team and make the weak defenders even WEAKER.
We aren't losing because Cuz is hurt, because Gay is playing poorly or because McLemore is invisible at times. We're losing because our defense is based on gambling and we aren't playing with house money.
miltonap
Starter
Agreed 100%. I absolutely don't get why they keep helping our bigs. Our bigs can hold their own. Why does Karl do this? Any logic there?
bajaden
Hall of Famer
I pointed this out some time ago, and I fail to understand it as well. It's particularly fatal when you play a team like the Warriors, who live and die by the three point shot. Hell, Curry doesn't even have to be open to hit his shot. We made Rush into an instant star last night, and almost all of his shots were uncontested. Wait, how can that be, I thought someone said that McLemore was playing great defense. I don't want to lay all the blame at his feet, but in general our perimeter defense has been terrible. I'll give Curry credit, in his nine or so minutes, he played better defense than Collison, and he actually hit some shots. Yeah, I know, it was garbage time. But trust me, if nothing else, the dude can shoot the ball, and his defense can't possibly be any worse.
I've been reading the various threads regarding the team and Karl and Our inability to win without Cousins, etc, etc.
All I know is that watching and evaluating George Karl and his coaching job, I find his performance this year so far, underwhelming. He says the right things after games such as blame him for the defense....but then I see no adjustments. He says the 2 PG lineup has admittedly not been vey effective, yet it's run out there for half the game every game. Every team gets open 3 looks....I'm waiting for an adjustment.
Irregardless of what I want the offense to be and who to play, I'll give Karl the benefit of the doubt as the offense has been good much of the time....but defensively, it's a fail and I'm waiting for the adjustment from him and its not coming. I'd go so far as to say he's clueless, which hard to say when he's for 1000 wins under his belt but where the hell is the adjustment. Any simpleton knows that you can't win in the NBA without defense. Its why many here wish Malone was still here...he stressed defense and hammered on this team to play defense. Only coach in the last 10 years to hold the players accountable for their defense.
Karl's defensive philosophy......it's not working right now and it's time he adjusted. This team as constructed, is and will be a very inconsistent team as long as Pace and offense is the priority, it's just not that talented when it comes to that philosophy. This team as constructed, would have more success in slowing down and emphasizing defense. If Karl is worth anything, he'd adjust. I just don't know if he gives a **** though. I really don't.
All I know is that watching and evaluating George Karl and his coaching job, I find his performance this year so far, underwhelming. He says the right things after games such as blame him for the defense....but then I see no adjustments. He says the 2 PG lineup has admittedly not been vey effective, yet it's run out there for half the game every game. Every team gets open 3 looks....I'm waiting for an adjustment.
Irregardless of what I want the offense to be and who to play, I'll give Karl the benefit of the doubt as the offense has been good much of the time....but defensively, it's a fail and I'm waiting for the adjustment from him and its not coming. I'd go so far as to say he's clueless, which hard to say when he's for 1000 wins under his belt but where the hell is the adjustment. Any simpleton knows that you can't win in the NBA without defense. Its why many here wish Malone was still here...he stressed defense and hammered on this team to play defense. Only coach in the last 10 years to hold the players accountable for their defense.
Karl's defensive philosophy......it's not working right now and it's time he adjusted. This team as constructed, is and will be a very inconsistent team as long as Pace and offense is the priority, it's just not that talented when it comes to that philosophy. This team as constructed, would have more success in slowing down and emphasizing defense. If Karl is worth anything, he'd adjust. I just don't know if he gives a **** though. I really don't.
kingsboi
Hall of Famer
Is it Karl himself that said it takes up to 20 games or so to figure out your teams identity? if so...I am perplexed why a supposed "HOF" coach refuses to adjust to the players he has and stop this pace and small ball which is clearly not working and nor will it work even if you have a healthy Cousins the rest of the season.
I'm just not buying the 20 games or so reasoning. What I'm tired of hearing from George after games is that the team needs to be more committed on the defensive side, yet, the philosophy is not working and the lineups he's running out there are not conducive to good defensive basketball. The commitment on the defensive side starts with him. It's just lip service and I don't think he's got the energy to enforce holding the team accountable.
sono
Starter
Malone had done much better job defensively with lesser squad, I got no one but blame Karl. The players are just not committing to defense, nor buying whatever defensive scheme Karl is running.
SacTownGrantFan
Bench
Great points. So frustrating to watch them 'guard' the empty space. Why? It is epic fail time and time again. Can the coaching staff not understand how to review game tape? It's pathetic how our wing players are always scrambling wildly to the 3 point line only to see another 3 drained. Perimeter players should stay on the perimeter where they belong and let the skilled interior D do it's job! I would much rather see us get beat inside than the every-game occurance of losing at the arc. It's no secret that teams look to shoot 3's more than ever in the history of the NBA.
Siranthony
Starter
Everyone is on Karls ass about pace. But I wonder if he has any choice. Vivek wants pace going back to the firing of Malone.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
I've been snarking Vivek on twitter about pace, but fact is that that is all George Karl has known or talked about for a long time. He once was a better coach, and people forget that in his younger years he wasn't a Nellie wannabe. He preferred fast pace to slow, but a number of his teams were closer to middling than run n gun. But since Denver, which remember has also had a constant nearly uninterrupted franchise-wide pace obsession going back decades, Karl has rarely if ever had a team outside the top 5 in pace. Push push, and push push personnel, have been a constant obsession for him.
King Baller
All-Star
And up until now his teams have been successful for the most part. Karl's knack for producing winning teams and making the Playoffs is the exact reason he was brought to Sacramento.
In hindsight Denver must of had a good reason to fire the COY??? Anybody know why?
J
jdbraver
Guest
Hey everyone guess what? The team was bad before Karl and has been for 10 years.you wanna blame the guy who just got here go ahead but your fix it strategy won't work.
Kingster
Hall of Famer
This phenomena of the smalls helping out the bigs also occurred at the beginning of the Malone regime. How often during Malone's tenure did we see guards with one foot just outside the paint while there man was at the 3 point line? A LOT. It was only after months that this habit seemed to recede (If memory serves, it only receded after a year of tutelage). I doubt very much whether this is Karl's strategy and that the defense is designed to have the guards cheat to the paint on defense, just like it wasn't Malone's strategy. My guess it has more to do with the trust factor not being there and/or they haven't bought in.
Chupacabra
Starter
That style of basketball had us looking pretty damn good at the beginning of last season. And that was with a significantly worse roster. You speak as though we dont have the most dominant low post scoring threat since Shaq. You dont tailor your style of play to the way the game is officiated or in accordance to what other successful teams are doing. Do that and you just become an indistinguishable part of the herd. You tailor your style of play to your roster and ideally to your best players. Slow the game down and let Cuz crush the weenie, finesse bigmen of today's game. That is an exchange that we will win more often than not. I should be the coach.
macadocious
Starter
It's the stupid effing switching that we do. It is giving the other team a mismatch. It's stupid. Unless you are switching guard for guard, and even then it's creating some form of mismatch.
Chupacabra
Starter
I would actually think that any coach with guts would see this roster and think "I can win with that." Our roster is sooooo much better than our record would indicate. If Karl doesnt turn it around this year he will almost certainly be canned. Vlade isnt the type to sit on his hands and do nothing. Theres no excuse for such a poor showing with the players that we have, other than a slew of injuries and a brutal schedule.
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