George Karl's Wild Ride

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VF21

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#361
#361
Dime Dropper said:
I don't think you're a schmuck, but you definitely leave yourself open to criticism with cryptic tweets, in which you strongly imply something but don't outright say it, and thus can go back and defend your position regardless of the outcome. I'm not talking about the Karl thing, this is a general theme. That's your style, which is fine. You also can't criticise people who point this out and then say "Well, technically I didn't actually say that." We're all adults here and can decipher strong implications.

I'm not saying you should outright post whatever information you know. It's obvious that some very likely events [at the time] end up not coming to fruition. Nobody wants to end up with egg on their face.

Personally I would prefer the style of someone who simply posts facts. That's not your job however, and I acknowledge that. You're not in an easy position, given that you're a radio presenter and also try to provide fellow fans with extra info.. The cryptic tweets do rub me the wrong way though. Understand your position, but it's not something I particularly want to read. As you said, nobody is forced to read your tweets. You are one of the good guys though and we're all on the same side, so we have that in common.
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I disagree with just about everything you've said. I know Dave, and I know damned well he doesn't say ambiguous things just so he can go back and defend his position. This is not Dave now, and it has not been Dave over the almost 15 years I've known him.
Having seen Dave go from the guy who called in to KHTK and was identified as "Dave from Carmichael" to the guy who posted on at least 3 different Kings boards to the guy who helped save the Kings, I can state with certainty that Dave couldn't possibly care less about egg on his face. (Although perhaps "brownies in his mouth" might be a better comparison.) If he doesn't post something, it's because he does not violate a trust. And sometimes he (and others) hear things they simply cannot share for a variety of reasons. It may not be what you or any other fan would prefer but it's a fact of life. I personally respect him a helluva lot more for not always posting everything just so he can claim to be first. And I also respect that he posts on here and engages with the fans when he certainly doesn't gain anything from doing so.

Dave is one of the REAL good guys.

/end rant
 
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Dime Dropper

Dime Dropper

All-Star
#363
#363
VF21 said:
I disagree with just about everything you've said. I know Dave, and I know damned well he doesn't say ambiguous things just so he can go back and defend his position. This is not Dave now, and it has not been Dave over the almost 15 years I've known him.
Having seen Dave go from the guy who called in to KHTK and was identified as "Dave from Carmichael" to the guy who posted on at least 3 different Kings boards to the guy who helped save the Kings, I can state with certainty that Dave couldn't possibly care less about egg on his face. (Although perhaps "brownies in his mouth" might be a better comparison.) If he doesn't post something, it's because he does not violate a trust. And sometimes he (and others) hear things they simply cannot share for a variety of reasons. It may not be what you or any other fan would prefer but it's a fact of life. I personally respect him a helluva lot more for not always posting everything just so he can claim to be first. And I also respect that he posts on here and engages with the ans when he certainly doesn't gain anything from doing so.

Dave is one of the REAL good guys.

/end rant
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Sorry VF, but that's a weird post, given that my initial post pretty much agrees with everything you just said. Sorry if that's offensive. But I pretty much said that I understand why Dave does what he does, that I'm not a fan of his style of reporting (but absolutely understand his reasons for it), and know he's one of the good guys. I'm not sure where we're disagreeing here.

If it's on a personal level, then of course. I'm not criticising Dave personally. He's more than likely a great guy. But even the guys I have on ignore here, I would probably get along really well with them. Nobody should take anything as a personal attack here, unless that's what it is.

Just to clairify, I didn't say Dave says ambiguous things with the intention of being able to go back. I said Dave says things that means he can't be wrong, essentially. Maybe splitting hairs here, but I certainly didn't say, or assert, that Dave goes out of his way to be dishonest. Jesus, I like Dave. I was just providing my opinion.
 
D

dude12

Hall of Famer
#366
#366
We are 5-10....this team should be better than that. I love how Karl keeps saying that his team needs to commit to defense and then he plays Rondo, Collison and Marco together who are not good defensive players. I don't get it.
 
kingsboi

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
#367
#367
dude12 said:
We are 5-10....this team should be better than that. I love how Karl keeps saying that his team needs to commit to defense and then he plays Rondo, Collison and Marco together who are not good defensive players. I don't get it.
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Rondo is a capable defender but it makes it hard for him to defend and initiate the offense when he is playing 46 minutes and then has to defend full time too? you give up one or the other or play the guy a few minutes less so he is fresh in crunch time.
 
rainmaker

rainmaker

Hall of Famer
#370
#370
Yeah, that's what bothers me, we're 5-10 and with all our issues, I'd argue a better coach who employs a system more suitable to our strengths and prioritizes defense would have this team at 8-7 or 7-8. I think we've dropped 2-3 games due to 2nd/4th quarter sub patterns/lineups and game planning.

The latest example is Kemba going for 39 and Lin 14 tonight. Much of that was when we went small, then he got hot. There's no excuse for those two dropping 53 on us on 21-35. And a problem is when at this level players get hot, it's many times too late to cool them down. And that's the problem with these small lineups and the Rondo/DC combo, it seems to repeatedly give the other team momentum.

Giving up 108.3 PPG comes directly from the coaching. And it's costing us. It's a product of the system and priorities.
 
twslam07

twslam07

All-Star
#374
#374
KingMilz said:
At one point I saw DC on Marvin Williams (6'9) and Rondo on Big Al (6'10) on the same play
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Is it just me or is our defense the only one in the league that gives us these types of mismatches on a regular basis? I feel like I never see this look with opposing teams that we go up against. They always have logical defensive matchups like PG vs. PG, SG vs. SG, etc. For some reason, we are okay with not just switching a light screen but switching when two players happen to be crossing one another (as in they are casually running by each other to get to their spot on the floor before their play begins).

Why are we willingly giving the other team mismatches?!

This game is about exploiting mismatches yet we don't work hard at all to limit the amount we give to our opponent. It's infuriating and idiotic. Part of me thinks Karl wants us to switch everything to save as much energy as possible on the defensive side, so they can run more on offense. I have no evidence to back this up, but why else would you run such a moronic defensive scheme?
 
Padrino

Padrino

All-Star
#375
#375
george karl has over 1900 career regular season wins, and his teams have made the playoffs a total of 22 times. yet, of those 22 playoff appearances, karl's teams have exited in the first round 14 times. that's more than 60% of his total playoff appearances in which his teams have failed to advance to the second round. he's lost in the nba finals once, the conference finals three times, and the conference semi's four times. his preferred systems throughout his career have helped teams win, but they don't help teams win big...

more to the point, i am always wary of any coach who prizes his system above all else, especially when it comes at the expense of maximizing a roster's talent. i am much less suspicious of coaches who prove adaptable, and understand where a system can be modified to best suit the talent available. karl may indeed be a future hall of famer because of the sheer volume of regular season wins he's managed to generate, but there remains considerable doubt in my mind that he has the ability to elevate this particular kings team; he's knowingly saddled them to a system that sacrifices defense at every turn, and it remains to be seen if he even believes that the deficiencies in his line-up choices are worth correcting...
 
uolj

uolj

Starter
#377
#377
Padrino said:
george karl has over 1900 career regular season wins, and his teams have made the playoffs a total of 22 times. yet, of those 22 playoff appearances, karl's teams have exited in the first round 14 times. that's more than 60% of his total playoff appearances in which his teams have failed to advance to the second round. he's lost in the nba finals once, the conference finals three times, and the conference semi's four times. his preferred systems throughout his career have helped teams win, but they don't help teams win big...
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To be fair, if you have 22 appearances, then on average you'd be expected to exit in the first round 12 times, the 2nd 6 times, conference finals 3 times, and make the finals once or twice. So based on those numbers you can't really say his systems don't help teams win big, just that he's had average success in the playoffs.
 
Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#379
#379
uolj said:
To be fair, if you have 22 appearances, then on average you'd be expected to exit in the first round 12 times, the 2nd 6 times, conference finals 3 times, and make the finals once or twice. So based on those numbers you can't really say his systems don't help teams win big, just that he's had average success in the playoffs.
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I think the more pertinent observation would be that in the past 14 years, which is to say dying days in Milwaulkee (while chasing off Ray Allen), Denver, now us, he's made the playoffs 10 times, and made it past the first round 1 out of 10 times.

Which still doesn't quite account for this situation, where he's got a team with a lot of talent but is struggling to even get them turned around to make the playoffs, let alone get bounced in them. But it is part of the observation that the legendary old ball coach looked a lot more legendary and formidable at the end of his 90s run than he does today after going down the Nellie path. He's 23-42 in the playoffs since the Twin Towers were still standing.
 
KingsFanGER

KingsFanGER

Starter
#380
#380
Karl is who he is and a +1000 wins coach should know a thing or two about NBA basketball. He is our Coach for the season.
Alle that's left for us to hope, is that he finds a way to turn things around.
I don't care how he turns things.
All I care for is the Kings winning more games.
And I believe winning starts at the defensive end and with taking care of the ball.
We have blown a huge lead versus Charlotte. Karl and our players need to learn and adapt because of this.
But we have to keep in mind, that we were able to built a huge lead. So even in this game, we must have done something right.
 
E

ESP47

All-Star
#381
#381
Tetsujin said:
I thought it'd be impossible to field a worse defense than Keith Smart. I was wrong.
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I didn't think it was possible either but on the contrary Tet, Karl has found a way.

You see Keith Smart's defense involved sagging all your perimeter players down into the paint regardless of the matchups. Is Reggie Evans posting up iso on Chuck Hayes (one of the best post defenders in the league)? Well you better send Thornton down to double team him, leaving the opposing SG wide open for a free throwesque 3 pointer.

Then Karl came along and said ah ha! I have an idea how to make that situation even worse! You see under Smart's system, theoretically they at least had to a choice to actually not double team pointless players in the paint. In theory, the wing players could have stayed home and everyone on the court could have been defended properly. But you see under my system, we are going to switch on every screen, FORCING our players to have to double team even the weakest of offensive players because now all our tall guys are guarding short guys and all our short guys are guarding tall guys. Because in theory, anyone should be able to guard anyone. And IF the defense just so happens to not switch and have favorable defensive matchups, then they must revert back to Keith Smart's system of pointlessly double teaming in the paint to leave 3 point shooters wide open.

So now we have the worst system + an even worser system = the worstest systems ever made. But don't worry because like we did under Smart, we're going to score a ton of points. So many points to the point where defense doesn't even matter anymore.
 
ockingsfan

ockingsfan

Starter
#385
#385
With Rondo's resurgence under George Karl, Karl staying as coach next year may be key to keeping Rajon Rondo in Free Agency.

IF the Kings were to fire Karl at the end of the year and hire someone like Thibs and his methodical offense, Rondo may chose to sign elsewhere.

I sure hope Karl can get the Kings near or in the playoffs and the Kings keep him as coach.

I think Karl having a successful run will be very key to the Kings re-signing Rondo.

We may not be able to keep Rondo, if Karl is fired by the end of the year.
 
S

sdballer

Starter
#386
#386
ockingsfan said:
With Rondo's resurgence under George Karl, Karl staying as coach next year may be key to keeping Rajon Rondo in Free Agency.

IF the Kings were to fire Karl at the end of the year and hire someone like Thibs and his methodical offense, Rondo may chose to sign elsewhere.

I sure hope Karl can get the Kings near or in the playoffs and the Kings keep him as coach.

I think Karl having a successful run will be very key to the Kings re-signing Rondo.

We may not be able to keep Rondo, if Karl is fired by the end of the year.
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That's 5 paragraphs basically repeating the same idea :)
 
R

randymoss1881

Starter
#388
#388
ockingsfan said:
With Rondo's resurgence under George Karl, Karl staying as coach next year may be key to keeping Rajon Rondo in Free Agency.

IF the Kings were to fire Karl at the end of the year and hire someone like Thibs and his methodical offense, Rondo may chose to sign elsewhere.

I sure hope Karl can get the Kings near or in the playoffs and the Kings keep him as coach.

I think Karl having a successful run will be very key to the Kings re-signing Rondo.

We may not be able to keep Rondo, if Karl is fired by the end of the year.
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karl won't be a deal breaker for Rondo. I'm sure rondo knows defense wins championships and if karl continues down the small ball and terrible defense I'm sure rondo won't leave cause we fired karl.
 
DeMoN

DeMoN

Bench
#389
#389
I feel like our defense is starting to get figured out. The rotations are getting quicker. And honestly one big reason for teams scoring so much is that we are, I believe, second in the league in pace. Also remember that Cousins is pretty much our defensive anchor, and he's missed about half the games this season. I think our defense will be good when its all said in done. Teams will miss 3 pointers on us eventually.
 
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