Zach Randolph signs with Kings
- Thread starter John Galt
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Well, I didn't know that the FO had to run all their plans and goals by the fans before implementing them. Have they and will they make mistakes? Of course. But they have been doing a pretty good job overall these past couple years so I will give them the benefit of the doubt until I see a plan fail. Just because YOU want them to do something doesn't mean it's right. And darn right I think he could teach our kids a few things. Things they can work on in practice daily, like going against a talented strong big man like they might face against some other teams.
I'd be happy with Zach as a mentor playing 20-25mpg. Willie and Skal need to learn some toughness. We're really not bringing in any older vets for the purpose of trying to win. He doesn't play fast but in recent years has also become a decent pick and pop player. May also allow WCS to get out and run if he's the one crashing the boards.
So when I as a simple fan disagree with or simply don't understand something, the FO is rumored to do, it means the FO has to run all their plans and goals by the fans before implementing them? Maybe it's just me, but I would guess Vlade, Joerger and pretty much everyone else in the Kings organisation couldn't care less, what some fan on the internet writes about their decisions.
This is a message board. It's meant for discussions and the exchange of opinions. For it to be an interesting place you need some sort of disagreement or else it would simply turn into an echo chamber.
So maybe we should try to have a fair discussion instead of trying to use knockout arguments to discredit other users. Of course I think my opinion has some merit to it. I would assume you think the same about your own opinion right?
So back to the topic:
I already said, that I agree that Zbo could teach our young bigs some toughness or in your own words "going against a talented strong big". But with Zbo being one of the very few bigs, who relies on superior weight, question is, if battling against strong bigs is really one of the most important lessons our young guys need to learn. A few years from now Zbo's career will be over. As of right now only DMC and Embiid qualify as strong talented bigs, that are primarely scorers.
There are other strong dudes out there, like Adams for example, but they very rarely present a scoring threat outside of putbacks and the occasional jumphook once their primary offensive set fails.
So what Zbo could do is try to teach Skal or Willie how to establish position to keep someone like Adams off the board.
But while Zbo is someone, who relies completely on positioning to rebound, Skal and Willie are more athletic rebounders, who will never have the tools to hold their ground like Randolph.
From my point of view Skal has a very solid understanding of boxing out and holding position. But I agree that Willie could use lots of polishing in that area.
The thing is, that from my understanding the path to become a good rebounder, that Willie needs to take, is not the path Randolph can teach him. Willie will never be able to bang. If he tries he will simply bounce off his man.
He needs to establish position by being quicker to the ball than his opponent not by wrestling him down.
Now of course Zbo could try to teach him, how to see angles and how to predict where the ball is bouncing off to. I agree, that this would be a huge help.
But ultimately I personally think, that Zbo is not the best mentor for our agile bigs. Someone who made a career out of being a quick and athletic big, would be tremendous. Hence why I mentioned Kevin Garnett, who already worked as a consultant for the Bucks ( teaching Thon Maker a thing or two, who is very similar to Willie and Skal). KG also could teach Willie how to deal with stronger and heavier opponents (btw. we already have two strong and heavy dudes on our team for Willie to go against every day in practice) as a light but quick big man. That's something Zbo never had to do, because he always was one of the heaviest and strongest guys on the floor.
This is a message board. It's meant for discussions and the exchange of opinions. For it to be an interesting place you need some sort of disagreement or else it would simply turn into an echo chamber.
So maybe we should try to have a fair discussion instead of trying to use knockout arguments to discredit other users. Of course I think my opinion has some merit to it. I would assume you think the same about your own opinion right?
So back to the topic:
I already said, that I agree that Zbo could teach our young bigs some toughness or in your own words "going against a talented strong big". But with Zbo being one of the very few bigs, who relies on superior weight, question is, if battling against strong bigs is really one of the most important lessons our young guys need to learn. A few years from now Zbo's career will be over. As of right now only DMC and Embiid qualify as strong talented bigs, that are primarely scorers.
There are other strong dudes out there, like Adams for example, but they very rarely present a scoring threat outside of putbacks and the occasional jumphook once their primary offensive set fails.
So what Zbo could do is try to teach Skal or Willie how to establish position to keep someone like Adams off the board.
But while Zbo is someone, who relies completely on positioning to rebound, Skal and Willie are more athletic rebounders, who will never have the tools to hold their ground like Randolph.
From my point of view Skal has a very solid understanding of boxing out and holding position. But I agree that Willie could use lots of polishing in that area.
The thing is, that from my understanding the path to become a good rebounder, that Willie needs to take, is not the path Randolph can teach him. Willie will never be able to bang. If he tries he will simply bounce off his man.
He needs to establish position by being quicker to the ball than his opponent not by wrestling him down.
Now of course Zbo could try to teach him, how to see angles and how to predict where the ball is bouncing off to. I agree, that this would be a huge help.
But ultimately I personally think, that Zbo is not the best mentor for our agile bigs. Someone who made a career out of being a quick and athletic big, would be tremendous. Hence why I mentioned Kevin Garnett, who already worked as a consultant for the Bucks ( teaching Thon Maker a thing or two, who is very similar to Willie and Skal). KG also could teach Willie how to deal with stronger and heavier opponents (btw. we already have two strong and heavy dudes on our team for Willie to go against every day in practice) as a light but quick big man. That's something Zbo never had to do, because he always was one of the heaviest and strongest guys on the floor.
So when I as a simple fan disagree with or simply don't understand something, the FO is rumored to do, it means the FO has to run all their plans and goals by the fans before implementing them? Maybe it's just me, but I would guess Vlade, Joerger and pretty much everyone else in the Kings organisation couldn't care less, what some fan on the internet writes about their decisions.
This is a message board. It's meant for discussions and the exchange of opinions. For it to be an interesting place you need some sort of disagreement or else it would simply turn into an echo chamber.
So maybe we should try to have a fair discussion instead of trying to use knockout arguments to discredit other users. Of course I think my opinion has some merit to it. I would assume you think the same about your own opinion right?
So back to the topic:
I already said, that I agree that Zbo could teach our young bigs some toughness or in your own words "going against a talented strong big". But with Zbo being one of the very few bigs, who relies on superior weight, question is, if battling against strong bigs is really one of the most important lessons our young guys need to learn. A few years from now Zbo's career will be over. As of right now only DMC and Embiid qualify as strong talented bigs, that are primarely scorers.
There are other strong dudes out there, like Adams for example, but they very rarely present a scoring threat outside of putbacks and the occasional jumphook once their primary offensive set fails.
So what Zbo could do is try to teach Skal or Willie how to establish position to keep someone like Adams off the board.
But while Zbo is someone, who relies completely on positioning to rebound, Skal and Willie are more athletic rebounders, who will never have the tools to hold their ground like Randolph.
From my point of view Skal has a very solid understanding of boxing out and holding position. But I agree that Willie could use lots of polishing in that area.
The thing is, that from my understanding the path to become a good rebounder, that Willie needs to take, is not the path Randolph can teach him. Willie will never be able to bang. If he tries he will simply bounce off his man.
He needs to establish position by being quicker to the ball than his opponent not by wrestling him down.
Now of course Zbo could try to teach him, how to see angles and how to predict where the ball is bouncing off to. I agree, that this would be a huge help.
But ultimately I personally think, that Zbo is not the best mentor for our agile bigs. Someone who made a career out of being a quick and athletic big, would be tremendous. Hence why I mentioned Kevin Garnett, who already worked as a consultant for the Bucks ( teaching Thon Maker a thing or two, who is very similar to Willie and Skal). KG also could teach Willie how to deal with stronger and heavier opponents (btw. we already have two strong and heavy dudes on our team for Willie to go against every day in practice) as a light but quick big man. That's something Zbo never had to do, because he always was one of the heaviest and strongest guys on the floor.
This is a message board. It's meant for discussions and the exchange of opinions. For it to be an interesting place you need some sort of disagreement or else it would simply turn into an echo chamber.
So maybe we should try to have a fair discussion instead of trying to use knockout arguments to discredit other users. Of course I think my opinion has some merit to it. I would assume you think the same about your own opinion right?
So back to the topic:
I already said, that I agree that Zbo could teach our young bigs some toughness or in your own words "going against a talented strong big". But with Zbo being one of the very few bigs, who relies on superior weight, question is, if battling against strong bigs is really one of the most important lessons our young guys need to learn. A few years from now Zbo's career will be over. As of right now only DMC and Embiid qualify as strong talented bigs, that are primarely scorers.
There are other strong dudes out there, like Adams for example, but they very rarely present a scoring threat outside of putbacks and the occasional jumphook once their primary offensive set fails.
So what Zbo could do is try to teach Skal or Willie how to establish position to keep someone like Adams off the board.
But while Zbo is someone, who relies completely on positioning to rebound, Skal and Willie are more athletic rebounders, who will never have the tools to hold their ground like Randolph.
From my point of view Skal has a very solid understanding of boxing out and holding position. But I agree that Willie could use lots of polishing in that area.
The thing is, that from my understanding the path to become a good rebounder, that Willie needs to take, is not the path Randolph can teach him. Willie will never be able to bang. If he tries he will simply bounce off his man.
He needs to establish position by being quicker to the ball than his opponent not by wrestling him down.
Now of course Zbo could try to teach him, how to see angles and how to predict where the ball is bouncing off to. I agree, that this would be a huge help.
But ultimately I personally think, that Zbo is not the best mentor for our agile bigs. Someone who made a career out of being a quick and athletic big, would be tremendous. Hence why I mentioned Kevin Garnett, who already worked as a consultant for the Bucks ( teaching Thon Maker a thing or two, who is very similar to Willie and Skal). KG also could teach Willie how to deal with stronger and heavier opponents (btw. we already have two strong and heavy dudes on our team for Willie to go against every day in practice) as a light but quick big man. That's something Zbo never had to do, because he always was one of the heaviest and strongest guys on the floor.
I still think someone like Zbo could be a great asset to this young team, teaching good post moves and being a big that can match up against other big strong players. KK can as well, but I don't think you can have justone such player. A couple good vet options on the front line would be ideal to me. And while Boogie and Embiid might be the best players to exemplify that player type, they aren't the only ones who would give our front line some issues.
I don't ascribe to throwing the youth out there as starters and/or getting the bulk of the minutes as much as some others. Much of their development in the first year or two (especially) should be in practices and then they earn their minutes in games as the coach gains confidence in what they can do. Rookies especially often hit the wall partway through the season, they don't know the ins and outs of the league, they can rarely match up against the much older and stronger vets. Don't short them on the time they need to develop and learn before "throwing them to the wolves". We've seen issues when doing that time and time again. Controlled repetition in practice is a great way to instill good habits early.
No need to apologize. Usually I'm not that thin-skinned either. No harm done and this happens to all of us. I hope things wind down a bit for you soon. Glad we can move back to actual basketball talk, because this is what we are all here for.
Most of this board is on board with what people describe as Joergers way of development - meaning young players having to earn their minutes. I also tend to agree with that.
From my point of view we have two strong bigs on the roster. I don't want to cut Papa's minutes short. He is already behind KK. Getting Zbo would give us another big, strong dude to battle against the Adams and Kanters of the league. But Papa would be the third big in that scenario and what I saw from him late in the season, gave me the impression he is ready for some serious backup minutes. I'm actually pretty happy with our big man rotation of KK, Papa, WCS, Skal and Giles. They are young of course, but those guys fit extremely well. We can go big and heavy with KK or Papa at the 5. We can go crazy athletic with WCS+Skal/Giles. I like that a lot.
And the most common setup in the league currently is one "true" big alongside a mobile and skilled PF. I don't like the idea of playing KK/Papa and Zbo together, meaning Papa should never share minutes with Zbo on the court, further diminishing his playing time. If we feel the need to sign another PF, because we don't want to rely completely on the youngsters I think it should be a mobile player, able to play alongside KK and Papa, or else we have the KK+DMC situation all over again.
Of course there would be benefits, if we get a guy like Zbo. You listed most of them and I wouldn't deny that.
My issue is just that Zbo is so different from WCS, Skal or Giles, that I'm not really sure, how much they could learn from this guy.
But why not Jamychal Green? From my limited understanding of the cap rules, the Grizzlies face difficult decisions this offseason. They made the QO to Green, but maybe we could force their hand a bit. And Green is also tough as nails, plays bigger than his actual 6'9 frame, was even able to hold some ground when matched up with DMC, is familiar with Joerger and has 3 years of experience in a great basketball program. A modern era PF not good enough to throw the max at, but certainly a valuable player. 3 years from now, when our young core will start to play for something meaningful, Green could still be part of the team. He would even be able to play some SF minutes, when enough of our young bigs break out and start to log most of the minutes at PF/C.
Most of this board is on board with what people describe as Joergers way of development - meaning young players having to earn their minutes. I also tend to agree with that.
From my point of view we have two strong bigs on the roster. I don't want to cut Papa's minutes short. He is already behind KK. Getting Zbo would give us another big, strong dude to battle against the Adams and Kanters of the league. But Papa would be the third big in that scenario and what I saw from him late in the season, gave me the impression he is ready for some serious backup minutes. I'm actually pretty happy with our big man rotation of KK, Papa, WCS, Skal and Giles. They are young of course, but those guys fit extremely well. We can go big and heavy with KK or Papa at the 5. We can go crazy athletic with WCS+Skal/Giles. I like that a lot.
And the most common setup in the league currently is one "true" big alongside a mobile and skilled PF. I don't like the idea of playing KK/Papa and Zbo together, meaning Papa should never share minutes with Zbo on the court, further diminishing his playing time. If we feel the need to sign another PF, because we don't want to rely completely on the youngsters I think it should be a mobile player, able to play alongside KK and Papa, or else we have the KK+DMC situation all over again.
Of course there would be benefits, if we get a guy like Zbo. You listed most of them and I wouldn't deny that.
My issue is just that Zbo is so different from WCS, Skal or Giles, that I'm not really sure, how much they could learn from this guy.
But why not Jamychal Green? From my limited understanding of the cap rules, the Grizzlies face difficult decisions this offseason. They made the QO to Green, but maybe we could force their hand a bit. And Green is also tough as nails, plays bigger than his actual 6'9 frame, was even able to hold some ground when matched up with DMC, is familiar with Joerger and has 3 years of experience in a great basketball program. A modern era PF not good enough to throw the max at, but certainly a valuable player. 3 years from now, when our young core will start to play for something meaningful, Green could still be part of the team. He would even be able to play some SF minutes, when enough of our young bigs break out and start to log most of the minutes at PF/C.
Adrian Wojnarowski: Free agent Zach Randolph has agreed to a two-year, $24M deal with the Kings, league sources tell ESPN.
Zach is a good teacher because he did alot of things without athleticism that our bigs probably never really had to do properly becaus they have springs in their legs. Little things like sealing your man, boxing out properly, finishing through contact and defending in the key. Doing things without elite athleticism also means doing things the right way with timing and communication.
Not to mention Randolph was only 6'9" playing pf or c and doing what he did, so yeah he got game and can pass on that knowledge.
Not to mention Randolph was only 6'9" playing pf or c and doing what he did, so yeah he got game and can pass on that knowledge.
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Very happy with this. He is a great veteran to teach the young kids. He was a punk in his early years and has grown into a great guys and great role model. He is the gritty type that never quits which will go a long way in teaching these front court things a thing or two over the next couple of years.
Although he is 36, he is still a capable scorer on the low block and will not be taking too much time off Skal. When the Kings need a bucket, they can use Randolph to get a basket which is something this team has lacked since Boogie was traded.
Although he is 36, he is still a capable scorer on the low block and will not be taking too much time off Skal. When the Kings need a bucket, they can use Randolph to get a basket which is something this team has lacked since Boogie was traded.
Dont like the second year being fully guaranteed at all I hope we didnt get him in his completely washed cash them checks years.
Next year there will be less cap space and more free agents, this one might be a hamper next free agency.
He wont have a big effect on the pick so from that standpoint adding him is fine. Thank god we didnt tie him up for 4 years like Landry.
Next year there will be less cap space and more free agents, this one might be a hamper next free agency.
He wont have a big effect on the pick so from that standpoint adding him is fine. Thank god we didnt tie him up for 4 years like Landry
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Randolph is the trickier one for me to wrap my mind around. George Hill is a good player, possibly game changing player, and we have a 19 year old point, so i get that. Zach will be 37 (?), the front court is loaded, and that 12 mil could've really been put to use.. I hope he imparts that knowledge on our young big core
