Worst SG play in Sacramento Kings history?

Mr. S£im Citrus

Doryphore of KingsFans.com
Staff member
#61
You guys do realize that we're middle of the pack on offense and bottom of the barrel on defense right? Everyone is worried about "roles" and IT's assist numbers (his assist % is the same as Vasquez's btw).
Don't obfuscate the issue like that, please. Neither Thomas' raw assist numbers, his averages nor his percentages are as important as when, how or to whom he makes those assists. To point to 99.2ppg (or whatever you're basing your assessment on) and say, "See, the offense is good enough," is to be overly simplistic, in my opinion.
 
#62
Wow!!! That explains why Malone thought he was ready to start. It now seems like a reason to place him back on the bench. I don't want him being Mr. Irrelevant on the starting 5 and don't give a damn if that position is played by MT. Let the kid mature in a more friendly environment. He is part of our future and MT is not.
As much as I wish I didn't have to say it, moving MT back into the starting lineup for another "showcase", might be the best move at this point
 
K

KingMilz

Guest
#63
Rudy Gay is the only player on this team can that both defend and score. He's the only complete player we have. Every other player on this entire team is a liability on one side of the court or the other. Until we stock up on a few more complete players or at least players that can defend, we're going to keep losing a ton of games.
I'd add Derrick Williams to that as well
 
#64
Good pg play, it is one of those things where when you see it working, you know. Unselfish, ball moving, team basketball. Watch any kings game from 2001-2004. Bibby never had high assist numbers, but they ran a beautiful offense.

No one is letting the D off the hook, or overlooking the general lack of talent. And the topic here is how bad the sgs are, so I think everyone understands that.

Ben has forced a lot of shots and gets very few touches early, which he needs. He desperately, more than anyone, needs a quick start. The pg needs to understand that. The Phoenix game ben got the first two shots, an actual play ran for him, missed it, got his own rebound, put it up again and made it. And then watched. Neither Ben or Rudy had another shot until under 6 mins. Rudy, being a pro, worked himself into the game. Ben never hit another shot all game. IT missed his first 3, but went on a tear late first. Point being, IT got himself going no problem, but no one else. Most pgs do things reverse of that, get teammates going, then self.

Ben isn't a pro yet. He's just a lost kid out there, and he needs his vets to help him along, or at least try. He gets forgotten at times. The team will be much better if Ben plays better, so they need to give him a better chance.
 
#65
Take Ben and IT out of the starting lineup and start Vasquez and Salmons. Trade Jimmer and Thornton for them. Simple way to better play and more wins.
 
#66
In the old days, college players got four years with the same coach. Then they were brought along slowly and eased into the line-up. McLemore has had no such luxuries. He is dong fine. Don't give up on him, and for god's sake don't trade him because then will have to play against him in the future.
 
#68
Take Ben and IT out of the starting lineup and start Vasquez and Salmons. Trade Jimmer and Thornton for them. Simple way to better play and more wins.
I wonder if Rudy would be good in the 'point forward' position, with him bringing up the ball, like the Warriors have had Iguadala do and many other teams have used as well? It seems like it could be a useful option to explore at times
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#69
I wonder if Rudy would be good in the 'point forward' position, with him bringing up the ball, like the Warriors have had Iguadala do and many other teams have used as well? It seems like it could be a useful option to explore at times
No no. Bad idea. Scary idea. Bad bad Shasta.

That was exactly what the Raptors were trying to do with Rudy this year, resulting in his epic usage/inefficiency + capper to the assault the "advanced" metric nerds were launching on him.

Bad.

Bad bad.

Nonononononono...
 
#70
In the old days, college players got four years with the same coach. Then they were brought along slowly and eased into the line-up. McLemore has had no such luxuries. He is dong fine. Don't give up on him, and for god's sake don't trade him because then will have to play against him in the future.
Doing fine? I think a lot of people understand the kid is a rookie and very raw (only playing guard three years - jr/sr high school and one college). Some of the more impatient fans just want soMe slightly definitive signs that he won't be a bust so we aren't wasting our time. This year wins don't necessarily help the position of the franchise, so I don't mind him being subpar and not contributing too much, but the kid hasnt even been that lately. We can fawn over the athleticism but we need to see more
 

Glenn

Hall of Famer
#71
Doing fine? I think a lot of people understand the kid is a rookie and very raw (only playing guard three years - jr/sr high school and one college). Some of the more impatient fans just want soMe slightly definitive signs that he won't be a bust so we aren't wasting our time. This year wins don't necessarily help the position of the franchise, so I don't mind him being subpar and not contributing too much, but the kid hasnt even been that lately. We can fawn over the athleticism but we need to see more
Give him the ball.
 

Mr. S£im Citrus

Doryphore of KingsFans.com
Staff member
#72
In the old days, college players got four years with the same coach. Then they were brought along slowly and eased into the line-up. McLemore has had no such luxuries. He is dong fine. Don't give up on him, and for god's sake don't trade him because then will have to play against him in the future.
Wait a second, time out. What do you mean, he had no such luxuries? Did someone point a gun at him, and say, "You're going to declare yourself for the NBA after one year at Kansas, or I'm going to blow your ****ing head off"? I mean, as long as these kids are allowed to come out, they're going to come out, and as long as they're allowed to take them, GM's are going to take them. But, when you choose to exercise your right to leave college early and go to the pros, you forfeit the right to be insulated from such criticism, IMO. If he wasn't ready to contribute to an NBA team, he should have stayed at Kansas.

As far as being brought along slowly once they get here, maybe my memory is just faulty, but I don't recall too many occurrences of that actually happening with lottery teams. It did, and still does happen with playoff teams, but teams picking in the lottery, especially the Top Ten? Those kids are always being drafted by teams that need them to contribute on Day One.
 
#73
Why is McLemore on such a long leash? Jimmer and even Thornton were never able to retain the minutes he's getting for this long while putting up bad numbers. I mean, we're not just talking about a few bad games. McLemore has just been plain bad.
 
#74
Why is McLemore on such a long leash? Jimmer and even Thornton were never able to retain the minutes he's getting for this long while putting up bad numbers. I mean, we're not just talking about a few bad games. McLemore has just been plain bad.
Would you like to go back to Thornton? And Jimmer obviously can't start at SG along side IT.... Right now, there is just no other option.
 

hrdboild

Moloch in whom I dream Angels!
Staff member
#75
This is one of those "what did you expect?" moments. What was the rap on Ben at the time of the draft? He's a young player with standout athleticism, a great looking jumpshot, and issues with his consistency. He completely disappeared in the tournament except for one game and all season there were questions about whether he was assertive enough (as a red-shirt Freshman playing on a team of Seniors mind you) to fulfill his potential as a go-to scorer. He was praised for taking his shots within the flow of the offense, competing on defense, and dominating teams at times with his athletic ability. You put him on a team which features two potent scorers who demand double-teams and get the vast majority of their shots off in the paint (Evans, Cousins) and his ability to blend in and space the floor is valuable. In that situation we needed somebody who can be a third option without having the ball in their hands. By no means is he a defensive stopper, but he can be a good defender within a team concept if he's not expected to do too much on his own. That's what I envisioned from McLemore at the time we drafted him and I was excited about the fit next to Evans more than anything else.

Fast forward to the present and notice how much has changed. His back-court mate has been alternatively Grievis Vasquez (not a standout shooter or adept at getting to the basket, inexplicably froze McLemore out of the offense much of the time) and Isaiah Thomas (lightning quick volume scorer, likes pull-up jumpers and splitting the defense on drives to the basket). Coming off the bench, IT has learned to get his shots off in a hurry and while he is adjusting to his new role as more of a distributor, he's now got Rudy Gay on the wing demanding even more shots. On most nights now Ben is the fourth or fifth option in any lineup and that just doesn't put him in a position to maximize his talent. His potential is third-option wing. In his prime you expect him to put on the kind of scoring display that Rudy Gay has been the past couple games.

Now obviously it's far too early to make any conclusive statements about the player Ben will develop into, but if we're looking at a future with Cousins in the post, Gay on the wing, a volume scorer like IT at the point, and another scorer in Williams either coming off the bench or playing PF, then it might be time to reconsider if McLemore might be best utilized as an asset by trading him now to a team in need of a scorer on the wing who can give him a better opportunity to succeed. In my estimation, Williams didn't fail to meet expectations in Minnesota because his talent was over-estimated, it was because he couldn't find a role on that team in the direction they are going right now. And they hung onto him so long that they drastically depressed his trade value. I can see the same happening with Ben if things continue as they have so far. By no means am I predicting disaster here, it's just a slight hint of caution I feel. It seems to me like the patient approach we saw over the off-season has been replaced by an aggressive bid to become relevant right away. And we're one or two moves away from a situation where the rebuild has passed Ben McLemore by.