ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
Well said. I'm with you, in that I do trust Vlade. He knows exactly what's going on and he is the man for the decision. I'll go with what he decides
Will Cousins ever figure it out?... [EDIT] I think we're seeing it!
- Thread starter Merdiesel
- Start date
Well said. I'm with you, in that I do trust Vlade. He knows exactly what's going on and he is the man for the decision. I'll go with what he decides
kingsboi
Hall of Famer
I am in no way condoning trading Cousins. I just feel he needs a new team to get his act together and start getting some wins. I don't see him taking this team to where they need to be down the road but I'd love to be wrong on that of course.
kingsboi
Hall of Famer
I say waiting ten years is a long time to see how things work out...
kingsboi
Hall of Famer
No where in my post did I mention that Cousins specifically didn't "pan out". There were high expectations from him being the number 5 pick and with all the tools he had in his arsenal and he's delivered on the basketball side of things. What he has not panned out on is his maturation process as a NBA veteran...entering his sixth year I think it's safe to say he is a vet now. I still feel he needs a change of scenery before we can see him becoming a winner consistently and not in small spurts.
rhythmless
Starter
She yelled at my old uncle Karl in front of everyone at Thanksgiving.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Crazy old Uncle Karl rather had it coming.
randymoss1881
Starter
Sometimes I think maybe we should rent DMC to another team to show some of you how dominate he is, this is down right silly. Look at IT/Tyreke we wanted them both gone and the are doing very well for the selfs elsewhere. Now image if PDA dumbass would have kept both who will be on bargain deals now. Seriously it takes a special idiot to let talent walk when you're a small market team. It takes a bigger fool to trade a 25-10 center who plays defense. Ya we could get Boston's package of let's just say top 3 pick/ smart/ Crowder but everyone in here will be bitching when in 2 years we are watching DMC in the finals. Why cause an elite couch like Stevens will plant his ass in the paint and have him play defense. This place would erupt if DMC/IT won a ring on the same damn team while we are having prospect threads to see who pairs up with Smart/ the big kid from UK.
When you have a top 10 player you don't trade him period. Plus he's not healthy there's a article in bleacher report stating scouts say DMC is hurt and its clear as day when the scout and watch film.
When you have a top 10 player you don't trade him period. Plus he's not healthy there's a article in bleacher report stating scouts say DMC is hurt and its clear as day when the scout and watch film.
CuzistanKing
G-League
I don't agree with the bolded part at all. In fact, I stipulate that for that "success" to happen you NEED Big Cuz more than anything else. I also am very confident that if we show improvement in game planning and focus on defense, even if we miss playoffs this year, then both DMC and Rondo will be happy to come back next year and make that final push. You severely underestimate DMC's sense of loyalty (which he's shown and proven time and again over the past 5 years) and you seem to see a total reset as the only solution, when there's a much simpler (and proven) solution right in front of you. This team has the talent to compete, what it lacks is focus and discipline to do so, and that is on the coaching staff. And if you do decide to reset, I don't see how DMC's value is going to be lower in 2 years in the last year of his contract. If Kevin Love was able to fetch some nice pieces, I'm sure Big Cuz will as well.
Larry89
Disgruntled Kings Fan
I agree with Steph Curry.
http://basketball.realgm.com/wireta...-Copying-Warriors-You-Wont-Have-The-Personnel
http://basketball.realgm.com/wireta...-Copying-Warriors-You-Wont-Have-The-Personnel
gunks
Hall of Famer
If, for six years, all of your meals consist of steak and rotting garbage pulled out of dumpsters, do you trade the steak for more rotting garbage because you're getting the poo poo every night?
Cuz isnt the only common denominator. Cuz + bad personnel/bad decisions/bad coaching have been the common denominators. This has been a laughably (well, not so funny for us Kings fans) poorly run franchise.
I'll agree with you on the trust Vlade front though. I think he did a bang up job this summer. Too bad Karl is ruining it. IF we trade Cuz, I think Vlade will maximize the return. I just dont think the maximum return will be better than Cuz.
It sucks though, the big fella is definitely frustrated, and his attitude has been awful. Might be an interesting trade season. There will definitely be rumors of a Cuz trade, if nothing else.
Simply liking this isn't enough. I'm quoting it for emphasis.
kupman
Starter
I will play the other side.
I do not think that we have bad personnel, bad decisions or bad coaching this year and we are still not very good. It is what makes this year the most frustrating of all.
Also, all the cries of DMC being misunderstood and misused by his coaches, GMs, media and is surrounded by poor players got old a long time ago. Even it were true, if he is as bad a** as advertised he should be able to get this team at least 40 wins on his own. Maybe not a title contender, but a 1st ballot HOF and best big in 20 years should be able to get you 40 wins by himself and we have not sniffed any where close to that for many years.
I am beyond tired of excuses.
Just to make it clear- my point wasn't that in order to get significant success in the near future you need to trade Cousins, it was that the chances are low it will happen with (or without) him considering how our team has looked, and since the window is closing (which I guess is something we disagree on) I can see a value in making a move.
About the loyalty part, on the one side you say that the organization is what caused us to be bad for years and kept Cousins from any form of success (and you are right about it) and on ther other you expect him to sign up for more of that even though I can't think of one example of a player doing something similair in the past.
Now to the Kevin Love issue, because I thought about mentioning that earlier, the Love trade was pure luck for Minnesota- the way you describe it you would think teams were lining up to give them lucrative offers when in reality a lot had to break right- I'll let Flip (RIP) describe it:
and in another interview:
If you remember the only serious suiters were GS who didn't want to offer Klay Thompson (basically offering Barnes and David Lee). at that point the Wolves management was willing to let his contract play out for the possibility he MIGHT sign for them.... that's not a good spot to be in.
Stars value being lower on shorter contracts is completely logical and is pretty much a fact.
Who would you rather trade for- the guy who has 3 years on his contract or the one that can bolt at the end of the year?
I think the OP was referring to the past 5 years primarily.
Other than that, you're certainly entitled to your opinion and your feelings.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
No, nobody but a Top 10 all time guy would be able to take a team that has gone 7-35 without him and turn them into some .500 team. And not even all fo them in all liklihood.
one thing about Cousins being out as often as he has been as we have a large body of evidence of just how godawful the rosters around him have been without him on the floor. 7-35 = 42 games, that's more than half a season of evidence. A .166 win% = 13.7 wins a season for the team without Cuz. Asking a single player to come in and add 27 wins by himself, to triple his team's win% is just about impossible. Maybe Bron at his peak.
Even so, if Cousins is healthy these last few years, plays all 82, this team comes a lot closer to .500 than its been. about 34 wins or so if he plays 82, compared to 14 if he plays 0. That's pretty massive.
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CuzistanKing
G-League
Yeah, I fully get your point, I just completely disagree that a) we're anywhere near the point of abandoning ship; and b) there's nothing that can be done to salvage the situation except blowing everything up (which is what even exploring trades for DMC will amount to). Does anyone really believe that the organization (I'm including FO and the coaches here) put DMC and the rest of the team in the best position to succeed this year and that they simply failed? Unless your answer is a resounding YES to this, you do not blow things up - you look for ways to solve the problem.
On loyalty - I don't see the contradiction at all. Big Cuz feels a lot of loyalty to the city and the fans, that much is indisputable. He also saw Vlade clean house of various rodents extremely effectively and bring in talent and personalities that mesh with DeMarcus very well. Finally, Vivek seems to have learned his place and shut up for a change. I'd be extremely surprised if Cuz in any way, shape or form holds the past regime's misgivings against Vlade at this point. There's nobody (except a certain coach) in this whole organization who DMC would have a beef with. I don't understand how you can think Cuz wouldn't feel loyal to the current org, considering the kind of human being he is. That's part of why we're so ****ing lucky to have him!
And regarding KLove trade - if you don't think teams will be lining up to trade for DMC if we do decide to pull the plug, I don't know what to tell you.
EDIT to add: just wanted to note that it's good to have a civil discussion regardless of our feelings on any particular subject. Carry on!
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We'll have to agree to disagree about the point we are now in, but what bothers me is that you seem to once again confuse blame with looking at the situation we are in, I don't think that the organization did a good job, but I also think there are very limited tools to fix the problems in the time left so it doesn't really matter (no trade assets, unwillingness to part with the coach for obvious reasons and a what looks like going to be another lottery year).
Let me rephrase that- can you bring up another star player that played for a team that was this bad for that long and opted to stay?
You talk about Cousins like he is your childhood friend, he might be a great guy, but I don't expect him to stay here if he has a better option in a different place- and have no reason to believe he'll do so.
You brought up the KLove trade, and I showed you that it wasn't as simple as you made it up to be, now do I believe teams would like to trade for Cousins regardless of his contract details? absolutely.
Are the offers going to be the same? absolutely not.
That's a poisoning the well kind of question: no team in the NBA has been as poorly managed as we have, for as long as we have, with or without a star.
That might be true (and might work for my argument)... but I meant it more in term of finding a star player on a bad team (even a mediocre playoff team) that opted to stay in that team.
If you look at most NBA stars in recent history, they all left teams that weren't clear title contenders.
Telemachus
Starter
Walter Payton is the closest thing that comes to mind.
CuzistanKing
G-League
I guess in my mind, what you call "assigning blame" means "identifying the problem" - so if you're asking me how I would address the current situation if I were the GM, here it is: the problem is with coaching, pure and simple. Make sure you have DMC/Rondo/Rudy's buy-in on the following and then get to work. Unofficially give GK an ultimatum to step back and allow a defensive assistant (existing or brought in) to prioritize defense for the rest of the year. Just let Rondo orchestrate the offense and run film sessions (I'm not even half-kidding about it). Force Chad Iske to lock in rotations and stop the small ball nonsense. Sure, GK becomes a lame-duck coach but everyone saves face until the off-season (and I guarantee you our record improves by then).
None of the above sounds very diplomatic (I'm not the diplomatic type) but that's just the overall vector; I trust Vlade to know exactly who to talk to and what to say.
I do not know Big Cuz personally, but I feel like I understand him very well (similar personalities). I may make some assumptions but am yet to be proven wrong in watching him these past 5 years. Let me put it this way - Cuz will not leave until we give him a very good reason to do so (Karl and Pete came very close to it last Spring). Loyalty means everything to him but it has to go both ways, which is what Vlade understands very well.
Your argument works against you here. What if Minny panicked early and dumped KLove a year before they did? LeBron doesn't yet force his way back to Cavs, and Minny gets pennies on the dollar. My point was, if you have a Top 10 player on your hands, you'll be in the position of power when negotiating any deal, regardless. Unless, of course, you manage to irreparably damage your relationship with him, but that's a whole different problem.
Cousins needs to change his entire game. He's just not efficient for a big.
If I told you there was a player who scored 25pts, but only .408 shooting FG, you'd think he's a chucking guard...
Well that crap is Cousins. .400 is unacceptable for a center in any degree. He needs to change it real quick. Of his 19 shots, only 4 come from 3pt line, so it's not entirely on the fault of him shooting 3s.
He needs to become a much much wiser basketball player. He's forcing too much and he's straight up chucking the ball. He gets an excuse because he's not Isaiah Thomas. Imagine if we had Thomas taking 19shots a game averaging 25pts, but only barely 40% shooting. Everyone would hate him. It's sounding like Josh Smith in Detroit...
I'd rather decrease Cousins' usage, and increase Ben's or Rondo's usage. He has the 2nd highest usage of any NBA player right now.
If I told you there was a player who scored 25pts, but only .408 shooting FG, you'd think he's a chucking guard...
Well that crap is Cousins. .400 is unacceptable for a center in any degree. He needs to change it real quick. Of his 19 shots, only 4 come from 3pt line, so it's not entirely on the fault of him shooting 3s.
He needs to become a much much wiser basketball player. He's forcing too much and he's straight up chucking the ball. He gets an excuse because he's not Isaiah Thomas. Imagine if we had Thomas taking 19shots a game averaging 25pts, but only barely 40% shooting. Everyone would hate him. It's sounding like Josh Smith in Detroit...
I'd rather decrease Cousins' usage, and increase Ben's or Rondo's usage. He has the 2nd highest usage of any NBA player right now.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Your argument completely falls on its face just as soon as you make it to anyone who has watched the Kings play for longer than 5 weeks here.
DeMarcus Cousins isn't a .408 shooter. George Karl or that newbie offensive gimmickmeister he's using as an offensive coordinator may be however. There's one thing that has changed in 2015-16, and its not the center who has been here 5 years and was shooting around .500 at this time last year on a variety of inside thudding.
Why cherry pick the stats from exactly this time, last year? I think it has A LOT to do with the way he scores on offense. In the previous 5 years, he only had 1 year where he shot at least .500.
Stats don't like bud.
http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/202326/career/
http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/202326/career/
http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/202326/career/
http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/202326/career/
http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/202326/career/
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
You cherry picked stats from this time this year to make a dubious point. Which is either blatantly dishonest or blatantly ignorant.
And no, Cousins is not a natural .500 shooter, although he had followed a natural longterm progression in that direction right up until the Gerbil and the idiot owner stuck their fingers into things last winter because they didn't like progressions and wanted to play wannabe Warrior/Nuggets.
Cousins yr by yr FG% progression:
Yr 1: .430
Yr2: .448 +.018
Yr3: .465 +.017
Yr4: .496 +.031
Yr 5 pre-Malone firing: .512 +.016
<--------------------------------------Idiot Smallballers **** Things Up
Yr 5 post Malone firing: .454 -.058
Yr 6: .408 -.046
Then the morons fired the coach and starting running through junkball system after junkball system and gee, shocker, maybe that isn't the way to use a 270lb center. Which everybody who isn't a moron already knew.
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K
KingMilz
Guest
Against the Jazz Cousins played how he should have for the past 6 years he made simple moves and plays and took few jumpers while completely locking down Dfavs on the other end most times they matched up. Cousins just needs to play similar to his role on team USA, stop shooting any mid range jumper or 3 pointer just camp in the paint and use that 300 pounds and elite hands.
He made everyone better and was always creating 2 on 1 situations with his passing out of the paint which ended freeing him up in return for offensive boards.
Its quiet distrubing that in 6 years hes never learned a consistant jump hook and has wasted his time in bricking the majority of his mid range jumpers and taking terrible forced shots he never needed to take.
He made everyone better and was always creating 2 on 1 situations with his passing out of the paint which ended freeing him up in return for offensive boards.
Its quiet distrubing that in 6 years hes never learned a consistant jump hook and has wasted his time in bricking the majority of his mid range jumpers and taking terrible forced shots he never needed to take.
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