Why Isn't Sasha Playing?

Another solid performance by Sasha last night:

11 pts
2 reb
2 ast

Even though he played only 6 ½ minutes in the second half, he was the tied leading scorer for the Kings in the fourth quarter (tied with Sabonis) and 3rd scorer in the third quarter (only behind Fox and Murray). I feel like Mike Brown made a mistake once again with him - he should have put him on the floor a lot earlier in Q4 and maybe, just maybe, the game could have been a lot more competitive in the last few minutes...
 
Another solid performance by Sasha last night:

11 pts
2 reb
2 ast

Even though he played only 6 ½ minutes in the second half, he was the tied leading scorer for the Kings in the fourth quarter (tied with Sabonis) and 3rd scorer in the third quarter (only behind Fox and Murray). I feel like Mike Brown made a mistake once again with him - he should have put him on the floor a lot earlier in Q4 and maybe, just maybe, the game could have been a lot more competitive in the last few minutes...
Despite being a Sasha fan myself 6 of his points were in the last minutes with the "3rd unit" playing taking 2 wide open threes. But overall I agree even though he missed two shots by far (airballs) he was decent in defense, had a basket from close that should have been "and 1" (one of 50 fouls McBryde wasn't called) and ofc HB was nowhere to be found during the whole match. Kessler should have played more as well. In a match that Keon had a bit of foul trouble early, Keegan had also foul trouble, HB had troubles in general only Lyles played quite much from the bench. And tonight we are on a back to back, we will see how this will go.
 
The two air balls in the first half were the two worst shoots I had seen him shooting for 3 years , especially the second one was high school bad shoot…
All in all MB isn’t showing even 1% trust so the best for him is to go away from Kings , till this is the coaching stuff (unfortunately for me)
As far as the game I think we saw one pretty solid Vezenkov , nothing worst then Lyles or Barnes but he is still 5th choice for Coach , he even prefer to put guards on his position (Duarte when Murray got PF troubles)…

P.S. the only good personal for him were those meaningless two 3 pointers to get a bit of rhythm
 
DNP while the 4 guys played at your postions were 0/15 in the first 22min , 2/17 at HT and 7/33 at FT
Second DNP in row (i really dont count the garbage 2min last game)
And all of that because of 2/6 shooting at the home of the best team in the league ....
Well deserved ...
Just wondered if HB and TL will get frozen too after today's game, but i know the answer , right ?
 
Looking back to the whole season, I feel that Sasha would have had better numbers than HB and company on the F position if playing more than 30 min average per game, except for Keegan who is overall really impressive and Trey's rebounding. Even if I am wrong, it puzzles me to know why MB didn't try changing things a bit with the starting five. Something with HB just isn't clicking right. Try something different to push up the level, and not only by rotating the subs...
 
Just looked at the "per 48 min." stats of the Kings forwards this season.
Sasha is:
- almost tied with Keegan for most pts (21.7 Keegan, 21.6 Sasha, 20 HB, 17.5 Trey);
- is second at rebounds (10.7 Trey, 9.1 Sasha, 7.8 Keegan, 7.5 Kessler);
- is tied with Duarte (even though he is mostly a guard) at steals (1.9 Sasha and Duarte; 1.6 Kessler; 1.4 Keegan; 1.1 HB);
- is practically tied as second best 3pt-er (38.8% HB, 38.5% Kessler, 38.3% Sasha, 37.9 Trey).
I don't even want to bother to put up the FT%, knowing his is amongst the best in the team.
I know that "per 48 min." stat can't be always right but it gives you some info on where a player stands. And Sasha's numbers are impressive.
I have the feeling it was a wasted season for him with the Kings. Although I'm fond with the team overall, I'm beginning to cheer for his departure to somewhere, where he is really valued. This last DNP was too humiliating.
In every sport I've watched in Europe, when a guy from the starters has a consecutive games in which he underperforms, he is benched for a while. And we're talking seasons of 30-40 games. Mike Brown had almost twice as those games to see that HB and Huerter were not themselves most of the time. It took an injury to one of them to watch Keon explode. How come he doesn't see this with Sasha?
Sometimes the coaches' stubborness is holding the team back. I think that an european coach in his second season would've open up the team's talent more. Even if this meant to put HB on the bench for five games and light the spark in him again for the rest of the season.
 
Just looked at the "per 48 min." stats of the Kings forwards this season.
Sasha is:
- almost tied with Keegan for most pts (21.7 Keegan, 21.6 Sasha, 20 HB, 17.5 Trey);
- is second at rebounds (10.7 Trey, 9.1 Sasha, 7.8 Keegan, 7.5 Kessler);
- is tied with Duarte (even though he is mostly a guard) at steals (1.9 Sasha and Duarte; 1.6 Kessler; 1.4 Keegan; 1.1 HB);
- is practically tied as second best 3pt-er (38.8% HB, 38.5% Kessler, 38.3% Sasha, 37.9 Trey).
I don't even want to bother to put up the FT%, knowing his is amongst the best in the team.
I know that "per 48 min." stat can't be always right but it gives you some info on where a player stands. And Sasha's numbers are impressive.
I have the feeling it was a wasted season for him with the Kings. Although I'm fond with the team overall, I'm beginning to cheer for his departure to somewhere, where he is really valued. This last DNP was too humiliating.
In every sport I've watched in Europe, when a guy from the starters has a consecutive games in which he underperforms, he is benched for a while. And we're talking seasons of 30-40 games. Mike Brown had almost twice as those games to see that HB and Huerter were not themselves most of the time. It took an injury to one of them to watch Keon explode. How come he doesn't see this with Sasha?
Sometimes the coaches' stubborness is holding the team back. I think that an european coach in his second season would've open up the team's talent more. Even if this meant to put HB on the bench for five games and light the spark in him again for the rest of the season.
This isn't Europe. Are you saying that if Sasha struggled for 5 games, in Europe, that the coached would have benched him?

You don't bench a respected vet like HB. You just don't. If you move on from him, it's during the offseason and you trade him. That sort of treatment is what gets a franchise and Coach blacklisted around the league.

Thinking Brown is "disrespectful" to Sasha is blasphemy. Every coach, even the COY, is beholden to winning games or they get pur on the chopping block. Brown will be insulated this year, but if the Kings don't take a leap next year? Or regress? Well that's when whispers start happening.

This season has mostly just been bad luck for Sasha. Of course he had to earn his spot in the rotation and anytime he starting getting traction, he had some little ankle biter injury. There's also the issue that he doesn't bring much different skills than Lyles or HB
 
Just to add an european coach would have been fired at that time of the year .... :cool:
But that is not Europe , so things have been done in different way and we as europeans have to adapt ... If we want to enjoy it of course :)
 
This isn't Europe. Are you saying that if Sasha struggled for 5 games, in Europe, that the coached would have benched him?

You don't bench a respected vet like HB. You just don't. If you move on from him, it's during the offseason and you trade him. That sort of treatment is what gets a franchise and Coach blacklisted around the league.

Thinking Brown is "disrespectful" to Sasha is blasphemy. Every coach, even the COY, is beholden to winning games or they get pur on the chopping block. Brown will be insulated this year, but if the Kings don't take a leap next year? Or regress? Well that's when whispers start happening.

This season has mostly just been bad luck for Sasha. Of course he had to earn his spot in the rotation and anytime he starting getting traction, he had some little ankle biter injury. There's also the issue that he doesn't bring much different skills than Lyles or HB
This is the main point here mate ... IT's just too different from here and there ...
IF a player , doesn't matter who , playes 5 bad games in a row in Europe , he will be benched 110% ... yes ...
You just can not afford to be on low level ..
And keeping obviously a bad ( i speak only for this season ) player for 79 games in a row is something that we (as europeans) just can not understand...
But as i said , it is different world back there , so we are the ones that have to adapt , no the opposite ;)
 
This isn't Europe. Are you saying that if Sasha struggled for 5 games, in Europe, that the coached would have benched him?

You don't bench a respected vet like HB. You just don't. If you move on from him, it's during the offseason and you trade him. That sort of treatment is what gets a franchise and Coach blacklisted around the league.

Thinking Brown is "disrespectful" to Sasha is blasphemy. Every coach, even the COY, is beholden to winning games or they get pur on the chopping block. Brown will be insulated this year, but if the Kings don't take a leap next year? Or regress? Well that's when whispers start happening.

This season has mostly just been bad luck for Sasha. Of course he had to earn his spot in the rotation and anytime he starting getting traction, he had some little ankle biter injury. There's also the issue that he doesn't bring much different skills than Lyles or HB
So Kerr is blacklisted for benching Klay and Wiggins and CP3 and Draymond at certain different periods? And as a punishment he got an extension making him the highest paid coach in the league... Lue benched Westbrook, was he blacklisted as well? Aren't all of them "well respected veterans", don't all of them have better numbers than HB having similar minutes?
The whole anti-HB campaign started from last season not the current one and way before the missed 3 pointer at Golden State. But yeah let's create a record of consecutive games starting till he is 40 to reward him for being one of the worst starters statistically speaking in the league. And don't tell him that what the thing he does are not shown in the boxscore, cause he is the last player for hustle plays to go down on the floor etc. Also his "veteranship" is pointless, he is not a vocal player, seems like isolated the whole time, he is never on the bench prefers to run his bike. 2.9reb 1.1ast 0.1blk in 28' minutes of time. The Kings made it sound like a success that they resigned him with not a higher salary now that the salary cap has risen. Was he in the trade block before the deadline with probably no team asking for him or accepting a trade with him?
For sure he had a handful of matches that he was "super good" but during most of the season he sucks, he just stands there doing nothing and not really contributing in defense either. His "severe punishment" is not to close the games (not always) while others if they play half a bad game their place in rotation is in danger. Keon, Davion and Len were gone at some points, Kessler and Sasha rarely get a chance to play lately while Lyles on the other hand has a guaranteed position despite not playing well from time to time.

So yeah we Europeans are idiots that we don't know the basic stuff for basketball, not playing defense and are ruining the league like Arenas told last week.
 
I actually wanted to start a debate, or a conversation if you want, on the topic, because to me it's really strange how easily a good player is put aside for a starter, who isn't even amongst the top 4 players this season. I get that you can't bench a star, but HB isn't your hoop's Messi, to put it this way. And the obvious is that the team is stuck around the play-ins spot and can't make the next step. From what i saw, other teams tried some rotations in their starting line-ups and some of them made progress.
So I was curious if keeping players in not-so-good form is something normal for the US coaches. It's important to admit that I started watching NBA because of Sasha, after a long period of lack of interest. So I'm definitely rusty on the rituals around the leauge, but if the last DNP occured in a game in Europe, it would be looked at for match-fixing. This is how outrageous some of Brown's decisions look around here.
And yes, I also think that Sasha would be benched in Europe for such a period. Maybe not for five games, but for two-three definitely (not DNPs of course). It's what brings the feel of justice in the locker room. Also it makes your star a bit angry and then he has something to prove, thus shows his true face.
 
It’s just like that bro ../
We have to accept that this is very different from Europe and our way of thinking ….
seems like credibility is more important then form…
And let’s face it , with Boston Sasha was bad which was used at the very second …
 

dude12

Hall of Famer
I actually wanted to start a debate, or a conversation if you want, on the topic, because to me it's really strange how easily a good player is put aside for a starter, who isn't even amongst the top 4 players this season. I get that you can't bench a star, but HB isn't your hoop's Messi, to put it this way. And the obvious is that the team is stuck around the play-ins spot and can't make the next step. From what i saw, other teams tried some rotations in their starting line-ups and some of them made progress.
So I was curious if keeping players in not-so-good form is something normal for the US coaches. It's important to admit that I started watching NBA because of Sasha, after a long period of lack of interest. So I'm definitely rusty on the rituals around the leauge, but if the last DNP occured in a game in Europe, it would be looked at for match-fixing. This is how outrageous some of Brown's decisions look around here.
And yes, I also think that Sasha would be benched in Europe for such a period. Maybe not for five games, but for two-three definitely (not DNPs of course). It's what brings the feel of justice in the locker room. Also it makes your star a bit angry and then he has something to prove, thus shows his true face.
I’m in agreement with The Jamal in his response mostly. For all the grief HB gets on here, us keyboard coaches and GMs are not who makes the decisions. HB is still thought of highly from this coaching staff and around the league for what he brings to the team. Does he have games where he struggles offensively? Yes.

Im of the opinion, that this staff is extremely knowledgeable and has done an exceptionable job this year. Injuries have brought real issues but the staff has kept the team competitive in a tough, tough Western conference. Doesn’t mean they don’t like Sasha and I think next year his role is going to expand. I’m a believer in what he can bring.

I think the off-season will define different roles. Either Sasha is part of this rotation or he’s moved in a deal. Injuries created a huge opportunity for Keon Ellis. Unfortunately, Sasha’s injury hurt his opportunities. Hes just got to stay ready.
 
I think the Kings' nature of winning a couple and then losing one or two prevents any big changes to the starting lineup (save for injury). If they had lost 6 or 8 in a row, I think it would lead to more tinkering. Also Mike Brown just seems like the type to want to create consistency with roles.

I'm surprised that Sasha doesn't get more time in general, starting or not. I really don't get it because I like his energy and court awareness out there.
 
I like HB, but it does seem like MB rolls with him more than he should at times. If he isn’t contributing, just pull him right away and roll with someone else. Sasha can provide an outside shooting presence.

The biggest knock on Sasha is his on-ball defense. He actually plays better off-ball defense than I expected because of his high bball IQ but he just isn’t able to stick in front of anyone and with Domas as our C, it extra important that our perimeter defenders don’t get completely beat 1-on-1. But I also think Sasha’s offense is best when paired with Domas so it’s a catch-22.

Edit: Having said that, HB definitely is a weak defender in most games. He does have some games or matchups where he does well but I don’t think his defense is what keeps him in over someone else like Sasha on most nights. I could definitely be wrong. Just my opinion.
 
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Good god I can't push back on anything on this forum without some of you freaking out and thinking it's a personal attack.

You can choose to believe reality or you can choose to believe Brown has some vendetta against Sasha. I like what Sasha has brought this season. THE REALITY is he hasn't shown enough in games to differentiate himself over Trey Lyles (same position) or displace the longest tenured King and one of the most well-respected vets in the NBA in HB. I've been frustrated with HB's play too; what's that have to say with what Sasha is showing in practice that he can't displace him?

Again, your theory relies on Brown intentionally playing a worse player (who you say is HB) in lieu of Sasha and thus costing the teams wins. It also doesn't help that Sasha has been injured for a good chunk of this season, especially at the worst times when it felt like he was starting to get some traction and figure out the league a little bit.
 
This is the main point here mate ... IT's just too different from here and there ...
IF a player , doesn't matter who , playes 5 bad games in a row in Europe , he will be benched 110% ... yes ...
You just can not afford to be on low level ..
And keeping obviously a bad ( i speak only for this season ) player for 79 games in a row is something that we (as europeans) just can not understand...
But as i said , it is different world back there , so we are the ones that have to adapt , no the opposite ;)
Yeah, that's how I know you don't really care about this team, just Sasha. HB has not been bad for 79 games in a row. Not even close.

Brown sticks with his guys, but if a player GOES AND EARNS his spot, he sticks with him. Keon Ellis is living proof of that right now. If Sasha wanted to crack this rotation, he had to go out and earn it and show he's just better than Trey Lyles and HB. He's shown absolutely nothing this year that he's any better than either of those guys. That can change, of course and I still like Sasha's skill-set. But if he wanted to get on the court this season, he had to separate from those 2 players. He didn't.
 

Spike

Subsidiary Intermediary
Staff member
That's where Sasha's injury was poorly timed. He looked ready for more, and it was early enough to be able to make a move (at least for more minutes) without disrupting too much. Asking for a switch now ain't gonna happen.
 
I’m in agreement with The Jamal in his response mostly. For all the grief HB gets on here, us keyboard coaches and GMs are not who makes the decisions. HB is still thought of highly from this coaching staff and around the league for what he brings to the team. Does he have games where he struggles offensively? Yes.

Im of the opinion, that this staff is extremely knowledgeable and has done an exceptionable job this year. Injuries have brought real issues but the staff has kept the team competitive in a tough, tough Western conference. Doesn’t mean they don’t like Sasha and I think next year his role is going to expand. I’m a believer in what he can bring.

I think the off-season will define different roles. Either Sasha is part of this rotation or he’s moved in a deal. Injuries created a huge opportunity for Keon Ellis. Unfortunately, Sasha’s injury hurt his opportunities. Hes just got to stay ready.
I don't get why the Sasha fans refuse to acknowledge the context he walked into this year. The Kings were a 48 win team that brought back it's top 8 rotation players from the year before. As an NBA rookie (I know I know, he's not a real rookie, blah blah), he had to without a doubt show he belonged in the rotation that would displace Brown's trusted rotation from the season before.

Again, I think he's been pretty decent in his minutes this year. But between untimely injuries and just never really "popping" like he needed to crack a playoff rotation, it's been a bit of a lost year for him. But Keon Ellis is living proof that Brown gives guys the opportunity to go earn and keep a spot.
 

pdxKingsFan

So Ordinary That It's Truly Quite Extraordinary
Staff member
HB is seen and valued for his leadership and other intangible traits that are invisible to us as fans. It has been acknowledged off the court. He can be incredibly frustrating on the court for long stretches. And I think we are all in agreement we would love to see more Sasha.

All that said, let's try to remember to treat everyone here as a fan of the team, even if they are here for their favorite player. As long as that player is on the team, here we are.
 
I don't get why the Sasha fans refuse to acknowledge the context he walked into this year. The Kings were a 48 win team that brought back it's top 8 rotation players from the year before. As an NBA rookie (I know I know, he's not a real rookie, blah blah), he had to without a doubt show he belonged in the rotation that would displace Brown's trusted rotation from the season before.

Again, I think he's been pretty decent in his minutes this year. But between untimely injuries and just never really "popping" like he needed to crack a playoff rotation, it's been a bit of a lost year for him. But Keon Ellis is living proof that Brown gives guys the opportunity to go earn and keep a spot.
The highlighted sentence can be viewed differently. Without the injury to Huerter, Ellis could have remained a fringe player. All year Ellis displayed superior defense in limited play time. Fans on this forum were in favor of him seeing more play time. Then Fox came out with the information that Ellis finished at, or near, the top of shooting drills in practice. His G-League performance was enough for promotion to the bigs and Monte recognized his talent enough to sign him to 3 years.

Brown was forced to give Ellis an opportunity due to injury, especially when Duarte wasn't up to the task. With Huerter out for the year and questionable to continue with the Kings, we will likely never see the rotational dilemma Huerter's return would create.

But this thread is about Sasha. When he had the dust-up with Brown a few months ago, he suddenly became persona non grata. However many DNP-CD events that Sasha has suffered is unjustified given the many opportunities his skill set could have been used when others in the rotation were not at the top of their game. DNP-CD is certainly not giving "guys the opportunity to go earn and keep a spot".

Although it is completely conjecture, Sasha would very likely be in the regular rotation on many teams, perhaps even a starter. When he is traded, we will see how well his talents are recognized and utilized.
 
Yeah, that's how I know you don't really care about this team, just Sasha. HB has not been bad for 79 games in a row. Not even close.

Brown sticks with his guys, but if a player GOES AND EARNS his spot, he sticks with him. Keon Ellis is living proof of that right now. If Sasha wanted to crack this rotation, he had to go out and earn it and show he's just better than Trey Lyles and HB. He's shown absolutely nothing this year that he's any better than either of those guys. That can change, of course and I still like Sasha's skill-set. But if he wanted to get on the court this season, he had to separate from those 2 players. He didn't.
Mate , I really start getting irritated by this statement of some of you … yes I started the season as Vezenkov fan , but I become a Kings one ….
It’s complete crap that Brown goes for the guys who earns … it’s only because of Hurter’s injury that Ellis got his chance , not because he earned it , be fair …
Yes HB wasn’t bad for the whole 79 games , something like 50 of them … can you really honestly disagree with that ?? I speak about HB this year… I get that he is respectful veteran , I appreciate even more , because loyalty in nowadays is rare quality , but not seeing that he is not 82 games in a row starting 5 material hurts THE TEAM not Vezenkov …
And now concrete on Vezenkov - the last DNP was the biggest coaching parody I have ever seen , and if you think of him as Kings player , not Sasha concrete , you will agree with me …
After a first half where ALL the players that play in your position are 2/17 in shooting , 4 of them doesn’t have a bucket (different then FT) not counting on an “elite” shooter (not mine words) is … well speechless… what if he had his night and instead is 7/8 misses of all those 4 (they finished 7/33….) he made half of those shoots … We were going to be on the opposite side of the coin now …
And one last thing , for the 20 minute (figurative speaking ) together , Vezenkov and Sabonis have more assists to each other then Domas and HB for the year …. Sabonis has said several times that he sees in Vezenkov great team player who he can easily play with , but so far front the time Sasha played he was with Sabonis not more then 5% of the time…
It’s not only “earn it” , it’s also to be allowed to earn it ….
You can not earn playing with the big guns if no one sees you playing with them …
P.S. the only big enigma for me this season is what is actually happening in the training process … being lazy or floppy there (which I haven’t heard about Vezenkov) is the only adequate for me reason , for all of his DNPs and bench time
Because as a skill set he is not worst then Lyles and Barnes
 
@pdxKingsFan
That is why i will try to write about him only in the separated topic where we discuss players ....

@The_Jamal
Mate , please explain me why he was changed in the forth quarter .... Not reasonable explanation to me ...
having 5 of his team's last 9 points, with no major mistakes in defence , and a couple of good pases ...
Also he spend 10min at the floor , 0 with sabonis on it too ...

HB made the game of the season for him after the first one with Jazz ... I can agree on that too , without any hesitation
 
@pdxKingsFan
That is why i will try to write about him only in the separated topic where we discuss players ....

@The_Jamal
Mate , please explain me why he was changed in the forth quarter .... Not reasonable explanation to me ...
having 5 of his team's last 9 points, with no major mistakes in defence , and a couple of good pases ...
Also he spend 10min at the floor , 0 with sabonis on it too ...

HB made the game of the season for him after the first one with Jazz ... I can agree on that too , without any hesitation
Just to be clear HB had more productive games not just the first one at Utah. But ok like others wrote MB was throwing darts today switching players the whole time to try to find the perfect lineup. I think we had 11 players only in the first quarter (Lyles, Davion, Sasha, Kessler, Len and Colby coming from the bench).
 
Just to be clear HB had more productive games not just the first one at Utah. But ok like others wrote MB was throwing darts today switching players the whole time to try to find the perfect lineup. I think we had 11 players only in the first quarter (Lyles, Davion, Sasha, Kessler, Len and Colby coming from the bench).
The one with Jazz is the one which blow me mind , that is why i used him ...
Agreed that he has some good games yes
 
[QUOTE="The Effort Police, post: 1799513, member: 4404He booty.

Next question.[/QUOTE]

:D

He'd be one of the first picks in a game of HORSE. Not a guy you plan your summer vacation around, while begging him to sign with your NBA team
 
Sasha's less minutes are a part of a bigger problem. I don't remember watching anywhere players in a starting line-up struggling so obviously as HB and Huerter and still keeping their spots constantly. It's new to me to see a coach not willing to try switching the minutes of a sub in a good form with one of the starters. Yes, I am a fan of Vezenkov, but I see a bigger pottential to the whole team not being exploit. Keon is young and it was obvious at some point in the end of 2023 that him receiving more time would bring about the same numbers and even better role in def. than Huerter. Also you're developing a new young player. And having Trey fill his minutes with so much makes you wonder what if he became a starter.
It's odd to me that this psychological instrument called "benching" isn't applied here. If you're HB or Kevin and you are benched and reduced to 12 minutes playtime, your motivation grows by the second. Not to mention their subs who suddenly realize that it's time to impress everyone.
But with two starters having so many ups and downs, still keeping their spots on the field, the subs don't truly believe they will get more playtime, except for injury issues amongst the starting 5. This leads to what a coach once told me "the lazy bench" - meaning a player coming in targets his usual numbers and is afterwards just trying not to make a mistake. His hunger is taken away because no matter what he does, he will always be a sub.
I really felt that it would be nice to try and see (for at least a couple of games) Trey as a starting PF and Sasha as his backup, Keegan at the 3 and HB with the second unit; and Keon keeping his time for a while. It would've triggered so much new things that some of them surely would've become upgrades to the team, which would help get more wins. But not even trying something different looks like as an "It's fine where we at" attitude. And the Kings could've been 2-3 spots up, I really believe that.
At last, throughout the season I read some interviews with european coaches and players who also noticed the natural chemistry between Sasha and Sabonis. This is a whole another puzzle to me - why don't they play together more often?