Why Isn't Sasha Playing?
- Thread starter Kraft
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After that i was sure they will not put him back , my wonder was a bit more why he did not start the 4th querter , when he was playing ok to good at the end of the 3d ...
Even if i was assistant coach i was never ever going to use frozen player while my Boss is ejected
(well i was going to use Vezenkov in general haha )
Even if i was assistant coach i was never ever going to use frozen player while my Boss is ejected
(well i was going to use Vezenkov in general haha )
Sasha's (not) playing time is a very popular subject in Greece as well, where journalists want to get "clicks" from Olympiakos fans that has several million fans throughout the country. So from early on the "NBA Greece" people were criticizing Brown for "burying" him in the rotation, or using him with the second unit that "other players don't help him looking only for themselves to get more playing time" and stuff like that which don't make much sense and just want to please the fans of his former team. Also they gave hope that he might return to his old club and help them since they have been quite bad this season in the European competition and lost in the local league from their arch rivals Panathinaikos. Just to get an idea that is not only in Bulgaria that media go nuts for Sasha.
From my point of view and watching almost every Kings match the past 2-3 years, the rotation this season seems to change a lot quite frequently something that wasn't happening in the previous one. The team despite having a better record at this point to me they have been playing worse having even a negative rating before facing Pistons/Hornets in the beginning of this road trip. So many heavy defeats, the offense is not "rolling" that much, not so much progress in the defensive part either, Barnes and Huerter declining non stop with Kevin losing his place in the lineup temporarily, but getting it back afterwards, something that doesn't seem to be happening with HB though. HB had 3-4 good matches and even in them his biggest contribution was in the first half and that sometimes led to him not being present in crunch times even in consecutive matches. I really don't get it why Brown doesn't try to change things with him as well, perhaps to try bringing him from the bench and it is impossible for HB or MB not to know that there is a whole anti-Barnes campaign from Kings fans in social media. Westbrook offered himself to go in the bench and this worked well for LAC, that beat us quite comfortably twice this season and seem like a very bad match to us (like Pelicans) in case we will meet them in the postseason.
Sasha is supposed to be a power forward but for NBA standards to me he looks like a better fit as "small forward". Mostly the time he plays he is moving around the perimeter and most of his shots are "quick release" 3 pointers as if he is just a sharp shooter. According to Fox he has broken all Kings records in the shooting drills in practice but during the matches he doesn't seem to be so efficient shooter. In Europe he was mostly know for "cutting" inside the paint area where he was getting easy baskets, and this happened several times lately but it was because of Sabonis passes, the rest of his teammates do not "feed" him that much inside the paint. Unfortunately it is not always that him and Sabonis are playing together so he barely gets a chance to make easy baskets.
I don't think that he will be traded, Kings have been very active in persuading him to sign with the franchise for so long during the previous season that it will be a waste to let him go so easily. He lacks athleticism and is not such a great defender but he really tries to contribute in both sides of the floor and he is very active getting rebounds despite not being so "physical". He has a high basketball IQ and I hope that he will be given the chance to prove he belongs to the rotation even as the reserve forward (along with Lyles when he is not playing as a center), in the following matches.
A bit off topic but all those experiments with Huerter/Duarte/Ellis/Mitchell switching places with one of them becoming a starter one day and DNP the next day and then returning to the previous situation again, do not make much sense to me. I am curious to see if there will be any trade for the team the next 3 weeks to make us stronger.
From my point of view and watching almost every Kings match the past 2-3 years, the rotation this season seems to change a lot quite frequently something that wasn't happening in the previous one. The team despite having a better record at this point to me they have been playing worse having even a negative rating before facing Pistons/Hornets in the beginning of this road trip. So many heavy defeats, the offense is not "rolling" that much, not so much progress in the defensive part either, Barnes and Huerter declining non stop with Kevin losing his place in the lineup temporarily, but getting it back afterwards, something that doesn't seem to be happening with HB though. HB had 3-4 good matches and even in them his biggest contribution was in the first half and that sometimes led to him not being present in crunch times even in consecutive matches. I really don't get it why Brown doesn't try to change things with him as well, perhaps to try bringing him from the bench and it is impossible for HB or MB not to know that there is a whole anti-Barnes campaign from Kings fans in social media. Westbrook offered himself to go in the bench and this worked well for LAC, that beat us quite comfortably twice this season and seem like a very bad match to us (like Pelicans) in case we will meet them in the postseason.
Sasha is supposed to be a power forward but for NBA standards to me he looks like a better fit as "small forward". Mostly the time he plays he is moving around the perimeter and most of his shots are "quick release" 3 pointers as if he is just a sharp shooter. According to Fox he has broken all Kings records in the shooting drills in practice but during the matches he doesn't seem to be so efficient shooter. In Europe he was mostly know for "cutting" inside the paint area where he was getting easy baskets, and this happened several times lately but it was because of Sabonis passes, the rest of his teammates do not "feed" him that much inside the paint. Unfortunately it is not always that him and Sabonis are playing together so he barely gets a chance to make easy baskets.
I don't think that he will be traded, Kings have been very active in persuading him to sign with the franchise for so long during the previous season that it will be a waste to let him go so easily. He lacks athleticism and is not such a great defender but he really tries to contribute in both sides of the floor and he is very active getting rebounds despite not being so "physical". He has a high basketball IQ and I hope that he will be given the chance to prove he belongs to the rotation even as the reserve forward (along with Lyles when he is not playing as a center), in the following matches.
A bit off topic but all those experiments with Huerter/Duarte/Ellis/Mitchell switching places with one of them becoming a starter one day and DNP the next day and then returning to the previous situation again, do not make much sense to me. I am curious to see if there will be any trade for the team the next 3 weeks to make us stronger.
Your description very much describes a "Larry Bird" type of player. Of course, that is what we are all hoping from Sasha. Apparently, he has proven he has such skills in practice, now it is up to him to prove it on the court even with the very limited minutes that he plays. Five minutes of "Larry Bird" play will earn him more time. Hopefully, that is how it turns out as the season progresses.
On another team he may have already approached that "Bird" level...we will never know. Only if he is traded may we see the "real" Sasha blossom this year. Good luck to him whether he stays or leaves.
On another team he may have already approached that "Bird" level...we will never know. Only if he is traded may we see the "real" Sasha blossom this year. Good luck to him whether he stays or leaves.
Regarding his "position" yes, his skills not that much at least not for NBA, in Europe he had a "Larry Bird" impact, being the leader, scorer, best rebounder quite often etc. Sometimes I watch him play and he is just stuck in the corner as if he is Kapono or something (who also moved to Greece at some point) but he is nothing like that. It's a mental challenge for him having to prove he's good, in first matches he was the one cheering the most from the bench, but those back2back DNP-CDs have an impact on him and he stopped celebrating that much, mostly just speaks with Sabonis that sits next to him. What I meant to say before was that the Greek media present him as he is the Larry Bird himself and they make it look like the whole Kings organism must focus on how he will fit better to the squad as if the team has no other issues to deal with, test him with the starters for a change etc. He hasn't proven that he deserves to be a starter but falling out of the rotation for no particular reason even after decent performances is a mystery. Same thing happening with other players like Ellis or even Len that at some point seemed like a lock as reserve center, yet we saw McGee playing instead of him in a couple of matches.
Last night Sasha was good especially in the first half, in the second he had this turnover in the fast break that he was caught off guard, he was blocked (might have been a foul, no replay) under the basket and he scored another basket that was never shown at least in the "league pass" due to showing a replay of a previous incident that had happened before. That was his best performance along with the previous time we played against the Suns, so perhaps facing teams that are not so strong in the defensive part, gives him more chances to be quite productive in offense. Indiana is not a defensive powerhouse either so maybe his "positive run" will carry on if he will be given similar or more playing time.
Bottom line he is not Larry Bird but the "black falcon" is not Larry Bird either underperforming in almost 25 matches so far but having his place in the lineup guaranteed for some reason. It's a paradox that HB not being on the court so many times when the match ends, but he always gets to start. I hope he stays and gets an opportunity at one point to sign an extension with "Bird rights"
Last night Sasha was good especially in the first half, in the second he had this turnover in the fast break that he was caught off guard, he was blocked (might have been a foul, no replay) under the basket and he scored another basket that was never shown at least in the "league pass" due to showing a replay of a previous incident that had happened before. That was his best performance along with the previous time we played against the Suns, so perhaps facing teams that are not so strong in the defensive part, gives him more chances to be quite productive in offense. Indiana is not a defensive powerhouse either so maybe his "positive run" will carry on if he will be given similar or more playing time.
Bottom line he is not Larry Bird but the "black falcon" is not Larry Bird either underperforming in almost 25 matches so far but having his place in the lineup guaranteed for some reason. It's a paradox that HB not being on the court so many times when the match ends, but he always gets to start. I hope he stays and gets an opportunity at one point to sign an extension with "Bird rights"
Sasha was great but need improvement in decision making. His passing skills is off. You would think coming from Europe that playing smart basketball is the last thing on everyone's mind...but during the game, he makes some questionable decisions. Passes got intercepted...he was slow in decision making and that's because his awareness of his surroundings was off.
My read on some of the bad passes and turnovers is he doesn't quite have a feel for the length and quickness of NBA defenses yet. These are clearly not decisions he'd make in Europe.
When you play basketball you kind of have an invisible map of the game in your head based on the size and speed of the defense, if that's off, your "decisions" will be off as well. He needs to update his google maps software.
When you play basketball you kind of have an invisible map of the game in your head based on the size and speed of the defense, if that's off, your "decisions" will be off as well. He needs to update his google maps software.
I'm also from Bulgaria, obviously Sasha is creating a Kings fanbase in the country...
Just wanted to share some thoughts from around here that might clear the perspective on how people see his performance so far, because I think it is misinterpreted a bit.
First of all, I don't think many bulgarians (or greeks) believed that Sasha could be in a starting line-up with the Kings. Rotation role maybe, but hardly a starter.
Most know that europeans have a rough time in the first seasons in NBA. Media is trying to create some kind of a basketball god aura for Sasha, because of his recent performances in the Euroleague. But everyone familiar with NBA doesn't fall for that and knows that the season so far was one of the expected scenarios. So, it's a bit unfair to write that this part of the world is always criticising the coach or the NBA itself. It has some truth, of course, but not in the proportions some here think.
Still, one of the most puzzling thing is why Mike Brown wanted him to join when he has HB and Trey in his position. It seems risky to have a guy with a long-term star-status in his previous team to just put on the bench. The DNP's really frustrated the bulgarian fans and it most probably frustrated Sasha as well. Having a guy with his experience not playing is probably demotivating for other bench players too. Also, he didn't have so many bad games to fall out of the rotation. It seems unfair. His last game looks like a proof of that. So I think that coach Brown was trying to back-up the position like any other coach would like to. But like I said, there might be some issues with that.
Having HB doing his "ghost play" season so far is contributing to the problem. I've been coached that when you let a shooter get comfortable (meaning to have him miss shots and get away with it), he will surely deliver a bunch of points on a regular basis soon. But HB, probably knowing he will be traded, lacks motivation. Nonetheless, he still gets away with it. This takes away from the spark of Sasha. In the moment he misses his first shot, everyone knows he's back on the bench in the next 3-4 minutes. That's not the way to get the best of your shooters.
Trey is a beast though. I'm surprised he doesn't play with the starters. Even in his worst nights, he'll defend better than HB and bring more heart and four or five more rebounds per game. Then again, he's been around the league for a while and has his role status from which, I think, would be hard to step up from.
So the most annoying thing for Sasha's fans is that HB plays over him and Trey. Sasha has not been given much chance to be comfortable with his missed shots. And we're talking about a guy who has scored in tough moments in numerous cup finals, championship finals, semi-finals, last-shot attemtps, comebacks in the last quarter for years and years. He has been a star both in Olympiacos and the Bulgarian national team practically the last 5-6 years. I'm saying he can take pressure. Even in his worst nights he's contributing with much more effort in more areas than HB right now. So - coming off the bench is not much of a surprise, but DNP's? Really? And consecutive DNP's? It's a joke.
I understand there is a trade expected with HB in it. But pushing him constantly on the court for the sake of others can not be a good decision. In the long-term it would be nice to at least try and let Sasha get comfortable with his shooting (like Keegan and Huerter) and most importantly - to let him take responsibility like he's used to. Starting with Trey as PF as the dirty-worker in the line-up and finishing with Sasha to take at least a couple of those high-stake shots in the last quarter (when Malik and Fox are guarded tightly or just don't have a good night) seems a pretty neat idea around here. It would make the defense stretch over to guard himas well. I think it's worth the try in some games. It's always nice to have another 4th quarter shooter at hand. And if HB stays, it's pretty obvious that he can play with the second unit as a SF. At least, until he gets his motivation back.
Just wanted to share some thoughts from around here that might clear the perspective on how people see his performance so far, because I think it is misinterpreted a bit.
First of all, I don't think many bulgarians (or greeks) believed that Sasha could be in a starting line-up with the Kings. Rotation role maybe, but hardly a starter.
Most know that europeans have a rough time in the first seasons in NBA. Media is trying to create some kind of a basketball god aura for Sasha, because of his recent performances in the Euroleague. But everyone familiar with NBA doesn't fall for that and knows that the season so far was one of the expected scenarios. So, it's a bit unfair to write that this part of the world is always criticising the coach or the NBA itself. It has some truth, of course, but not in the proportions some here think.
Still, one of the most puzzling thing is why Mike Brown wanted him to join when he has HB and Trey in his position. It seems risky to have a guy with a long-term star-status in his previous team to just put on the bench. The DNP's really frustrated the bulgarian fans and it most probably frustrated Sasha as well. Having a guy with his experience not playing is probably demotivating for other bench players too. Also, he didn't have so many bad games to fall out of the rotation. It seems unfair. His last game looks like a proof of that. So I think that coach Brown was trying to back-up the position like any other coach would like to. But like I said, there might be some issues with that.
Having HB doing his "ghost play" season so far is contributing to the problem. I've been coached that when you let a shooter get comfortable (meaning to have him miss shots and get away with it), he will surely deliver a bunch of points on a regular basis soon. But HB, probably knowing he will be traded, lacks motivation. Nonetheless, he still gets away with it. This takes away from the spark of Sasha. In the moment he misses his first shot, everyone knows he's back on the bench in the next 3-4 minutes. That's not the way to get the best of your shooters.
Trey is a beast though. I'm surprised he doesn't play with the starters. Even in his worst nights, he'll defend better than HB and bring more heart and four or five more rebounds per game. Then again, he's been around the league for a while and has his role status from which, I think, would be hard to step up from.
So the most annoying thing for Sasha's fans is that HB plays over him and Trey. Sasha has not been given much chance to be comfortable with his missed shots. And we're talking about a guy who has scored in tough moments in numerous cup finals, championship finals, semi-finals, last-shot attemtps, comebacks in the last quarter for years and years. He has been a star both in Olympiacos and the Bulgarian national team practically the last 5-6 years. I'm saying he can take pressure. Even in his worst nights he's contributing with much more effort in more areas than HB right now. So - coming off the bench is not much of a surprise, but DNP's? Really? And consecutive DNP's? It's a joke.
I understand there is a trade expected with HB in it. But pushing him constantly on the court for the sake of others can not be a good decision. In the long-term it would be nice to at least try and let Sasha get comfortable with his shooting (like Keegan and Huerter) and most importantly - to let him take responsibility like he's used to. Starting with Trey as PF as the dirty-worker in the line-up and finishing with Sasha to take at least a couple of those high-stake shots in the last quarter (when Malik and Fox are guarded tightly or just don't have a good night) seems a pretty neat idea around here. It would make the defense stretch over to guard himas well. I think it's worth the try in some games. It's always nice to have another 4th quarter shooter at hand. And if HB stays, it's pretty obvious that he can play with the second unit as a SF. At least, until he gets his motivation back.
I do like the way Sasha cuts to the basket. Easy baskets to be had with Domas passing. He flashes good defensive IQ too. I just think there’s going to come a time when HB is gone and playing time is freed up.
I personally would like to see Brown experiment more with Keegan at the 2 creating more time but also creating a different look with some length….at least more length that we usually put on the floor.
I personally would like to see Brown experiment more with Keegan at the 2 creating more time but also creating a different look with some length….at least more length that we usually put on the floor.
Vezenkov was the best off the ball scorer in Europe. But having him camped outside waiting for ball to be kicked out is not the optimal use of his skills. Sasha moves well without the ball, but most of his scoring in Europe came from good team effort with off-the-ball screening action which often required team-wide coordination. And Kings don't do schemes...
Most obvious way to more time for Sasha is Barnes and Huerter converted into starting guard/wing, and Lyles moved into starting lineup.
Most obvious way to more time for Sasha is Barnes and Huerter converted into starting guard/wing, and Lyles moved into starting lineup.
We had a thread about signing Sasha vs Lyles in the offseason because there were concerns about how the two would get playing time playing the same position as back up 4s. Lyles had such a great season that he had to to be brought back and the upside of Sasha was too great to pass up based on the price. That’s why they are both here, and unfortunately we have found ourselves in the spot some of us feared, not enough minutes for the both of them barring injury like Trey had early.
As far as HB goes, lack of motivation is not part of his make up, he is considered one of the most professional dudes in the league. He’s an easy target amongst the fanbase because every and I mean every fanbase has to have at least one player to turn on when things go wrong. He is what he is at this point: a great shooter, efficient scorer, trusted voice amongst players and coaches and a below average defender who has games where he doesn’t produce much. He is however a much better player than the fan base thinks he is and could easily average 14+ a game if that is what the coaches wanted from him (they don’t).
Having said all that, we need an upgrade defensively at the 4 and it doesn’t appear that Sasha or Lyles are exactly what we need there. Maybe there is a scenerio where we bring in a game changing defender at the 2 (say Marcus Smart) and if HB is part of the deal you could start Lyles and Sasha could get all those back up 4 minutes.
The other path for Sasha is what we saw against the Suns. Mike goes with Monk, Lyles and Sasha as his 3 primary reserves with spot minutes for Keon.
As far as HB goes, lack of motivation is not part of his make up, he is considered one of the most professional dudes in the league. He’s an easy target amongst the fanbase because every and I mean every fanbase has to have at least one player to turn on when things go wrong. He is what he is at this point: a great shooter, efficient scorer, trusted voice amongst players and coaches and a below average defender who has games where he doesn’t produce much. He is however a much better player than the fan base thinks he is and could easily average 14+ a game if that is what the coaches wanted from him (they don’t).
Having said all that, we need an upgrade defensively at the 4 and it doesn’t appear that Sasha or Lyles are exactly what we need there. Maybe there is a scenerio where we bring in a game changing defender at the 2 (say Marcus Smart) and if HB is part of the deal you could start Lyles and Sasha could get all those back up 4 minutes.
The other path for Sasha is what we saw against the Suns. Mike goes with Monk, Lyles and Sasha as his 3 primary reserves with spot minutes for Keon.
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I really liked the line-up at the start of the 2nd quarter of the game against Phoenix: Fox-Monk-Sasha-Lyles/Barnes-Len/Domas. Lyles at the 4 worked well defensively, Monk and Fox cutting through the defense to exploit Sasha's cuts and spacing, Len or Domas to dominate the center. It seems that we were all wrong to consider Lyles and Sasha are competing for the same minutes - it actually seems a better idea for Vezenkov to be the back-up 3 in the team.
In order to see the full capacity of Vezenkov he must be on the floor with Monk and Sabonis, those the are the only ones (at least for now ) who are using his cuts to the basket and actually seeing him at all ….
Once he gain a bit of confidence with 2/3 easy baskets (created by him) his 3pt shooting become automatic …
I know Lyles is favourite over here but his rebounding is not better than Sasha’s … If you put Lyles and him under same conditions the opinion around who has to play will swift very fast , just hope both will be here when this happen
I actually like Lyles too , I think he is brining much more for the team then HB (now not in the past)
Once he gain a bit of confidence with 2/3 easy baskets (created by him) his 3pt shooting become automatic …
I know Lyles is favourite over here but his rebounding is not better than Sasha’s … If you put Lyles and him under same conditions the opinion around who has to play will swift very fast , just hope both will be here when this happen
I actually like Lyles too , I think he is brining much more for the team then HB (now not in the past)
Per 36:
SashaV: 15.4 PTS, 7.2 REB, 1.3 AST, 1.3 STL
Barnes: 13.3 PTS, 3.5 REB, 1.6 AST, 0.8 STL
Lyles: 12.6 PTS, 8.6 REB, 2.3 AST, 0.2 STL
Any way you slice it Barnes should be at the bottom of the forward list especially considering this team's inability to rebound and hit deep shots. The bench needs defense, rebounding, and scoring and both Sasha and Lyles provide a bigger impact than HB.
SashaV: 15.4 PTS, 7.2 REB, 1.3 AST, 1.3 STL
Barnes: 13.3 PTS, 3.5 REB, 1.6 AST, 0.8 STL
Lyles: 12.6 PTS, 8.6 REB, 2.3 AST, 0.2 STL
Any way you slice it Barnes should be at the bottom of the forward list especially considering this team's inability to rebound and hit deep shots. The bench needs defense, rebounding, and scoring and both Sasha and Lyles provide a bigger impact than HB.
It's a completely closed process and unfortunately no one, not a single person or entity, from Bulgaria has any influence whatsoever in this process.
There is no process. It's whatever some secret room in the league says.
Sasha should be though. Would be a very interesting addition and he could seriously win it.
There is no process. It's whatever some secret room in the league says.
Sasha should be though. Would be a very interesting addition and he could seriously win it.
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No its quated a journalist from the USA close to Kings - Brenden Nunes ...
I never pay too much attention to those contests that is why i had never ever thought how they choose the participants ...
Will be fun to see him and what he can do
But obviously the process of choosing is lets say strange so i highly doubt that they will choose a highly unpopular name haha
I never pay too much attention to those contests that is why i had never ever thought how they choose the participants ...
Will be fun to see him and what he can do
But obviously the process of choosing is lets say strange
so i highly doubt that they will choose a highly unpopular name haha