Why is Shelden not playing??

[jayfly]

An even better question is why is Moore still getting minutes. He has no hands to catch a pass, last I checked he led the league in fouls, he is 32 years old and is not all of a sudden going to get any better. Yet game after game we have to watch him complain about every call, turn a good pass that should be a lay up into a turnover and so on.
I know Artest gets a lot of minutes at the 4 spot but those minutes need to come at the expense of Moore, not Williams. We played horrid defense 2 nites in a row and we have a guy on the bench who will defend the rim and rebound with ferocity that for some reason plays very little or none at all. I dont get it.

 

[Arby's Roast Beef]

Well, Hawes has been playing well, at least offensively, so that sort of stymies minutes for Williams to a slight extent. Obviously their games are absolute foils of each other, but apparently Reggie doesn't really favor the really young guys on our team (see Douby) so I can't say I'm completely surprised about him not playing. Not to mention, he's new to the team; give him time. He can develop a future here, but it'll take 20 games as opposed to 2.

 

[VF21]

An even better question is why is Moore still getting minutes. He has no hands to catch a pass, last I checked he led the league in fouls, he is 32 years old and is not all of a sudden going to get any better. Yet game after game we have to watch him complain about every call, turn a good pass that should be a lay up into a turnover and so on.
I know Artest gets a lot of minutes at the 4 spot but those minutes need to come at the expense of Moore, not Williams. We played horrid defense 2 nites in a row and we have a guy on the bench who will defend the rim and rebound with ferocity that for some reason plays very little or none at all. I dont get it.

Shelden hasn't really had much of a chance to practice with the team. Once he does, I'm pretty sure he'll get more Moore time.

 

[TheFifthMookie]

Shelden hasn't really had much of a chance to practice with the team. Once he does, I'm pretty sure he'll get more Moore time.

awesome pun.

 

[BritishColumbia]

So called kids (Hawes, Douby, Williams etc.) won't play much because we still have a [SIZE=-1]legitimate [/SIZE]chance for a playoff run (according to our coach). At least, I am happy that Reggy understands that our team is not a contender this year.

 

[creAtivetfh]

he plays too much defense

 

[Andriod_KiNg]

he plays too much defense

and we dont have anyplace for that stuff on this team.

 

[tyrant]

Shelden hasn't really had much of a chance to practice with the team. Once he does, I'm pretty sure he'll get more Moore time.

lets lose more games to teams we should be mopping the floor with because shelden hasnt gotten in a practice with the team. .

i wonder if theus knows we're playing dallas next. kidd will have 40 assists. here's a dose that may taste funny, but you know what....it may work. Try something different. whatever theus is doing is not working! give it up and try something else. playing our starters has gotten us nowhere. give minutes to spencer, williams, douby. you have to try something different.

 

[CruzDude]

As VF said, Shelden needs more practice time as he has not played all that much this year before coming to the Kings..... and road trips all but eliminate practice time. I think the Kings actually had a practice before the Miami game......little good it did tho'. I like what he brings, seems to have good hands and defends the rim "au contraire" less is Moore.

 

[tyrant]

do you think anyone else cares how much practice time he has. i just wana get mikki moore off the hardwood and on the pine where he belongs. him and all 7 of his fingers

 

[VF21]

You shove a kid onto the court when he hasn't played much and is surrounded by new teammates, you're pretty much dooming him to a lot of mistakes if he plays too many minutes.

What is it you want, tyrant? More wins? Why? You still think we're gonna make the playoffs?

Yes, Williams needs more time to develop BUT I don't think they need to throw him to the "wolves" in Dallas to do it.

Let him and the coaching staff actually spend some time together learning his strengths and weaknesses.

 

[tyrant]

thrown to the wolves? lol. this whole team is gona get thrown to the wolves on friday. do you know who we're playing? mikki moore has been thown to the wolves so much they're pitching him back. every game is a routine beating on the glass. its impossible to get above .500 with the team we have now. start giving shelden and spencer more minutes so they can develop quicker and get ready for next year.

 

[VF21]

I know exactly who we're playing on Friday. It's not who we're playing. It's the expectations you're apparently holding close.

Shelden Williams is not gonna help the Kings beat the Mavericks. If anything his lack of meaningful minutes could easily make him a target of the Mavs ... and they'll tear him apart.

I'm not saying don't play him ever. I'm saying get this road trip done and then get some practices in before giving him more minutes.

Reggie has done a pretty good job of adjusting minutes to give Hawes more exposure - and yet not burn him out - and I think he can do the same with Shelden. There were a lot of questions about Shelden and whether or not he'd be in the Kings plans. He's being tested. I think Petrie and Theus have most likely discussed how to best evaluate his potential. And throwing him into games right off the bat obviously isn't how they think it can best be accomplished.

 

[jayfly]

absurd

This is the nba boys and girls. Jason Kidd didnt need "practice time" with his new team, he fit right in. Now I dont think we can compare Kidd to Shelden but you get the point. The best way to learn is to play.we are playing horrid d, its like a layup line. Moore is not the future, and if you think his constant fouling, weak D and stone hands is more of an asset to us in any game then someone who is has strong D, will knock the crap out of someone going to the hoop and is not afraid to get a tough rebound you are way off. Shelden is not a rookie and he is a Duke kid so his BB IQ should be high.
Moore would be a nice player if he was playing 10-15 min a game off the bench against the other teams back ups. There is absolutly no good reason to continue to let him play while Williams gets nothing. I have been a solid Theus supporter all year. I think he has done a good job with what we have, but this one is bothering me. If Williams does not start getting more minutes soon something is not right.

 

[VF21]

Oh no you didn't.

Shelden Williams is NOT Jason Kidd. So to make that comment is patently absurd even if you do follow it up by retracting it.

And one more thing? I'm done editing your posts for the obvious in your insults about Mikki Moore. In the future, they'll be deleted.

 

[tyrant]

I know exactly who we're playing on Friday. It's not who we're playing. It's the expectations you're apparently holding close.

Shelden Williams is not gonna help the Kings beat the Mavericks. If anything his lack of meaningful minutes could easily make him a target of the Mavs ... and they'll tear him apart.

I'm not saying don't play him ever. I'm saying get this road trip done and then get some practices in before giving him more minutes.

Reggie has done a pretty good job of adjusting minutes to give Hawes more exposure - and yet not burn him out - and I think he can do the same with Shelden. There were a lot of questions about Shelden and whether or not he'd be in the Kings plans. He's being tested. I think Petrie and Theus have most likely discussed how to best evaluate his potential. And throwing him into games right off the bat obviously isn't how they think it can best be accomplished.

i have no faith in petrie or theus right now. some of the members on this board have a better clue than the two of those. since when did theus become "the guy" that knows whats best for this teams future. evaluate your coaching and then you can evaluate players and determine who goes where. but in the mean time quit calling ridiculous time outs and quit treating NBA players like high school junior varsity. quit leaving martin on the bench. start running plays for him. quit playing anthony johnson. the man is 35 years old and he's had it. it doesnt take 50 games in a season to know that spencer is better than moore. i know he's gettin a few more minutes here and there, but playing him for extended minutes wont make him worse. as if there's some sort of strategic or broken down time management every player must go through to determine if they'll be superstars.

 

[venom_7]

thrown to the wolves? lol. this whole team is gona get thrown to the wolves on friday. do you know who we're playing? mikki moore has been thown to the wolves so much they're pitching him back. every game is a routine beating on the glass. its impossible to get above .500 with the team we have now. start giving shelden and spencer more minutes so they can develop quicker and get ready for next year.

something tells me we may beat Dallas on friday. It really wouldn't surprise me the way this season has gone.

 

[Spike]

The guy who gets paid to know what's best for this team's future is the GM, then the coach. Us crazy internet fans are waaaay down on the list with regards to knowing what's best for the team. Theus has a history of rewarding players who earn time in practice. Throwing someone out there who has no knowledge of the sets being run would be suicidal. AJ's a vet, he should pick up on things quickly, thus, it's easier to get more PT quickly. He's also the only other point guard on the team besides Udrih and Lue. Or perhaps, Shelden isn't picking up any of the plays quickly enough to get him on the floor.

It's not like the NBA runs a "Flex" offense, which is pretty easy to pick up.

 

[tyrant]

true. but didnt we beat them last time? we wont beat them again. artest cant stop josh howard and kidd will have his jersey retired as the only point guard to dish out 35 assists in 1 game. jeeeezuz i wonder who'll get the TDMA award

 

[Bricklayer]

The guy who gets paid to know what's best for this team's future is the GM, then the coach. Us crazy internet fans are waaaay down on the list with regards to knowing what's best for the team. Theus has a history of rewarding players who earn time in practice. Throwing someone out there who has no knowledge of the sets being run would be suicidal. AJ's a vet, he should pick up on things quickly, thus, it's easier to get more PT quickly. He's also the only other point guard on the team besides Udrih and Lue. Or perhaps, Shelden isn't picking up any of the plays quickly enough to get him on the floor.

It's not like the NBA runs a "Flex" offense, which is pretty easy to pick up.

Just getting paid to know what is better for a team's future does not in fact mean that you do. Reggie has to watch out for his own *** too -- Reggie Theus's interests are NOT the same as the Kings. He has to think about his own career. We don't care about his career except as it pertains to us.

Ans this doesn't know the offense stuff doesn't hold water. Every major player traded near the deadline has stepped right in and played major minutes. And that's stars, role players, vets or kids. Delonte West shows up in Cleveland and is running the team the next night. The difference is that Reggie does not consider Shelden a major player, and reading bewteen the lines actually had a little beef with Petrie trading away Mike Bibby and his golden shot at .500. Doesn't mean that this situation will persist all the way to the end of the season -- just like last year Shelden may eventually get minutes in the season's garbagetime the same way he did last year for the Hawks, same way cisco and Justin did for us last year. But does mean that right now Theus is still going to play "his guys", his comfort zone, and just like in the Justin case has shown no hesitation in pinning a kid he does not trust for whatever reason right to that bench.

 

[Kingster]

An even better question is why is Moore still getting minutes. He has no hands to catch a pass, last I checked he led the league in fouls, he is 32 years old and is not all of a sudden going to get any better. Yet game after game we have to watch him complain about every call, turn a good pass that should be a lay up into a turnover and so on.
I know Artest gets a lot of minutes at the 4 spot but those minutes need to come at the expense of Moore, not Williams. We played horrid defense 2 nites in a row and we have a guy on the bench who will defend the rim and rebound with ferocity that for some reason plays very little or none at all. I dont get it.

Don't ask those darn questions! It makes way too much sense and it'll just hurt your noggin thinking those thoughts. Don't you get it - they're screwing with our heads. You're not supposed to understand. Up is down and left is right. Do you want the red pill or the blue pill? Personally, I'm looking out for those black helicopters swarming around Arco...

 

[Spike]

The difference is that Reggie does not consider Shelden a major player, and reading bewteen the lines actually had a little beef with Petrie trading away Mike Bibby and his golden shot at .500. Doesn't mean that this situation will persist all the way to the end of the season -- just like last year Shelden may eventually get minutes in the season's garbagetime the same way he did last year for the Hawks, same way cisco and Justin did for us last year. But does mean that right now Theus is still going to play "his guys", his comfort zone, and just like in the Justin case has shown no hesitation in pinning a kid he does not trust for whatever reason right to that bench.

There's probably where the "show me in practice" line comes in. He may turn to Williams a bit more knowing (fearing?) .500 is slipping out of reach, but he'll also get a better shot at knowing what kind of players he's working with. He may be the kind of coach that doesn't want to use game time to break in a player if he doesn't know him well enough. As frustrating as that is as a fan, I'm cool with it for now as we're not going anywhere anytime soon.

If Reggie is in it for the long haul (longer than Muss, anyway) he's in no hurry to play the new guys. There may be no directive from above to play the new guys. Ideologically, his success should be equivalent to the team's success, but that's a philosophical discussion for another time.

 

[jayfly]

absurd

As I said you cant compare Williams to Kidd. i guess I will spell the point out for you v since you cant figure it out on your own. To say someone needs a bunch of practice time before playing them does not hold ground. Take a look at the trades made in the last few weeks. Diop averaging 9 minutes per game,Szczeribak Wallace Smith and even Delonte West averaging over 20 minutes a game, hell even Bobby Jackson is getting over 20 minutes a game with Houston and he is a pg. Practice time in the nba dont mean squat, put them on the court and let them play. You think Williams would some how make our offense worse. What does Moore do that Williams cant. We dont run plays for Moore. Pick and roll and follow ups thats it.

 

[Spike]

As I said you cant compare Williams to Kidd. i guess I will spell the point out for you v since you cant figure it out on your own. To say someone needs a bunch of practice time before playing them does not hold ground. Take a look at the trades made in the last few weeks. Diop averaging 9 minutes per game,Szczeribak Wallace Smith and even Delonte West averaging over 20 minutes a game, hell even Bobby Jackson is getting over 20 minutes a game with Houston and he is a pg. Practice time in the nba dont mean squat, put them on the court and let them play. You think Williams would some how make our offense worse. What does Moore do that Williams cant. We dont run plays for Moore. Pick and roll and follow ups thats it.

This has nothing do to with being "shown wrong," but with seeing other peoples' point of view. While some believe that NBAers don't need practice, Theus is showing that HE thinks practice is important (well, except for Artest.)
Bobby Jackson is probably very familiar with the offense Adelman is running in Houston. The other players are going to be an integral part of their teams' playoff push, so giving them minutes early and often is more important than that of a player who may or may not be a part of the team's future. I'm not sure where Shelden Williams' future is, but considering he didn't get that many minutes in the ATL, I'd be pleasantly surprised if he got more time in Sacto.

 

[Superman]

As I said you cant compare Williams to Kidd. i guess I will spell the point out for you v since you cant figure it out on your own. To say someone needs a bunch of practice time before playing them does not hold ground. Take a look at the trades made in the last few weeks. Diop averaging 9 minutes per game,Szczeribak Wallace Smith and even Delonte West averaging over 20 minutes a game, hell even Bobby Jackson is getting over 20 minutes a game with Houston and he is a pg. Practice time in the nba dont mean squat, put them on the court and let them play. You think Williams would some how make our offense worse. What does Moore do that Williams cant. We dont run plays for Moore. Pick and roll and follow ups thats it.

Wally, Ben, Joe, Delonte, Kidd and Bobby are all veterans. And, in Bobby's case, I think it helps that he played several seasons under Rick Adelman a few years ago. I can't remember what team that was for; maybe someone else can help me out there....

And the point is that Theus doesn't feel that Sheldon is ready to get minutes. Simple as that. It's not like Sheldon is going to make us better on the floor, as sorry as Mikki Moore is. The whole team is in disrepair. Putting Sheldon in the lineup doesn't solve our problems, or trust me, he'd be in the lineup.

Another thing that probably has some bearing into Moore's minutes is the fact that Moore has to retain some value in the eyes of teams around the League. Once we relegate him to the bench, in any capacity, whether sixth man or ball boy, he loses value (whatever he might have) and we will never be able to trade him. I don't think Reggie and Geoff are interested in shooting themselves in the foot with Mikki the way we did with KFT.

 

[jayfly]

Practice time

When I say practice time dont mean squat I mean this: Obviously practice is important and we all know why. But the nba is a league where athletic ability and skill are at times more important then knowing a teams system completely. And this is one of those times. What is more important, haveing someone defend the low post and rebound (when your team is very poor in those areas)but not know the plays that great or play someone who knows the plays better but is a liability in most areas. No brainer to me. Someone tell me the downside of letting him play meaningful minutes. He is not going to cost us a game any more then Moore does, if anything the reverse is true. We are going nowhere this season but have, I think, a bright future. But to be a playoff team next year we need someone like him to contribute in the areas he excels at. And the more he plays this year the more he will contribute in the future.

Saying Moores trade value will drop because we play him less is just silly. Everyone in the league knows what he is, thats why he is on his fourth team in four years. He has a decent contract and is a very useful back up, but if he is a starter playing meaningful minutes your team is going nowhere. The reason Thomas has no trade value is because his contract is bad and he is getting old, not because he doesnt play. He has been in the league a long time. Everyone knows what he can and cant do.

 

[jcassio]

Why is Sheldon not getting more minutes?
-Because that's Reggie's way. If we've lost 3 games in a row, we question it. But if we've won 3 games in a row, then we think Reggie must know what he's doing.
But I agree with the poster who says that what's best for Reggie is not necessarily what's best for our team (in the long run). Right now, I would rather give the young guys more playing time to help them develop. But balance that with the need to stay competitive, which means that the vets still get their 30-32 min/game, too. But Moore? I would cut his 'intangibles' minutes down to 10-12 per game beginning now.

 

[RIP miyagi]

i agree with some of tyrant's points, but since when did the kings become utterly hopeless? The mavs are not perfect and neither is their coaching staff after watching what avery has done in the past (ie. last night with kidd in the 4th). they are just as susceptible to doing bad as we are. And if we do lose, then so what? we have lost a lot more games, that we were supposed to lose and did that cause anyone agony?

 

[tyrant]

i agree with some of tyrant's points, but since when did the kings become utterly hopeless? The mavs are not perfect and neither is their coaching staff after watching what avery has done in the past (ie. last night with kidd in the 4th). they are just as susceptible to doing bad as we are. And if we do lose, then so what? we have lost a lot more games, that we were supposed to lose and did that cause anyone agony?

explain that again please

 

[Spike]

explain that again please

If you're already guaranteed to lose, why not make a change for the sake of the loss, realizing that you're already going to lose, so the loss incurred through that move made for the sake of losing will not impact those who believe the loss was inevitable.

Got it?