Peter_Gibbons
Starter
If Vivek and Mullin came clean about all their lunatic acts and ideas that led to this, they know the public would want them out.
Just to sum it up without going into unsubstantiated territory, that Vivek is behind pretty much every controversial decision and there are a lot of behind the scenes like how players spend their free time that are being micro/mismanaged with the potential to backfire. Also noted that the focus is on moving season tickets for next year and beyond and not the current product and would pull players from training or other places for marketing pursuits.
There is more that I can't confirm so I'm going to leave it at that.
They wont say a thing until things begin to turn the other way, when really heads should be rolling.
Need to be careful in drawing conclusions. It could all be true or not. The he said, she said saga with the truth in between.i mean the clues are all there that this Vivek stuff is true. He clearly is making some decisions (Rudy Gay, Nik Stauskas draft pick, etc) so it's not impossible to think the stuff PDX said is totally true.
i think he's much worse than even any of us here think. look how many long time Kings employees have been fired or "parted ways" in the last year and a half
First part, publicity stunt? The second part if true, he was correct. Are you going to fault him for that?Of course we don't want to draw conclusions. but we all saw the draft room video where Vivek clearly made the Stauskas pick. He also publicly said he wanted Rudy Gay here when he came here, another decision he made.
These are not things an Owner should be doing
First part, publicity stunt? The second part if true, he was correct. Are you going to fault him for that?
Playing devil's advocate, is the case you just presented meddling owner or a case of a spineless, brown-nosing GM? Or both?
Vivek is trash. Worse than Magoofs.
As far as I'm concerned, the book is still open on Vivek. Owners nix deals all the time, proposing them probably a different story. As far as his claim for wanting Rudy from the get-go, if I remember correctly, I took it was a grain of salt. It was almost like he was taking credit for something that went right. Insecurity maybe?regardless of if Rudy Gay was a good acquisition or not, it isn't the owners place to be making those calls or demands
Never.
Anytime anybody makes this ridiculous charge I will counter it.
The Maloofs singlehandedly sunk multiple attempts by the city to build an arena. They tried to move our team at least twice (Mexico City(!!), Anaheim) and I only don't count Virginia Beach because I don't think they ever had any true intention of going there. But maybe three times. And that also doesn't count their dreams of moving the team to Vegas. On top of that, once they had no choice but to sell they maliciously tried to sell the team to investors who would move it to Seattle WITHOUT EVEN GIVING LOCAL INVESTORS A CHANCE TO MATCH OR EVEN NOTIFYING THEM IT WAS ON THE MARKET. The Maloofs spent over a decade trying their best to make sure we lost our team - even after they knew they wouldn't own it anymore.
Vivek, at worst, is meddling in basketball operations that he shouldn't be meddling in. But he signed binding documents keeping the team in Sacramento for 30 years. I am not saying "bow down at the altar of Vivek" because frankly he's ticking me off, but in the annals of terrible owners he can't even be mentioned in the same chapter as the Maloofs. Anybody who says otherwise is wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Ridiculously wrong.
To a certain extent there is even some hope that these early failures will mold him into a better owner. I think we saw with the Maloofs that their early success warped them into what they became.Never.
Anytime anybody makes this ridiculous charge I will counter it.
The Maloofs singlehandedly sunk multiple attempts by the city to build an arena. They tried to move our team at least twice (Mexico City(!!), Anaheim) and I only don't count Virginia Beach because I don't think they ever had any true intention of going there. But maybe three times. And that also doesn't count their dreams of moving the team to Vegas. On top of that, once they had no choice but to sell they maliciously tried to sell the team to investors who would move it to Seattle WITHOUT EVEN GIVING LOCAL INVESTORS A CHANCE TO MATCH OR EVEN NOTIFYING THEM IT WAS ON THE MARKET. The Maloofs spent over a decade trying their best to make sure we lost our team - even after they knew they wouldn't own it anymore.
Vivek, at worst, is meddling in basketball operations that he shouldn't be meddling in. But he signed binding documents keeping the team in Sacramento for 30 years. I am not saying "bow down at the altar of Vivek" because frankly he's ticking me off, but in the annals of terrible owners he can't even be mentioned in the same chapter as the Maloofs. Anybody who says otherwise is wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Ridiculously wrong.
That's an optimistic way of looking at this mess. Kudos.To a certain extent there is even some hope that these early failures will mold him into a better owner. I think we saw with the Maloofs that their early success warped them into what they became.
First part, publicity stunt? The second part if true, he was correct. Are you going to fault him for that?
Playing devil's advocate, is the case you just presented meddling owner or a case of a spineless, brown-nosing GM? Or both?
I'm 50/50 on whether or not failure humbles him. I do like that he wants to bring new ideas to the table and wants to win and wants the team to be like it was during the glory years. But I also don't know enough about him to know whether or not he'll adapt and revise or cling to his guns.That's an optimistic way of looking at this mess. Kudos.
Never.
Anytime anybody makes this ridiculous charge I will counter it.
The Maloofs singlehandedly sunk multiple attempts by the city to build an arena. They tried to move our team at least twice (Mexico City(!!), Anaheim) and I only don't count Virginia Beach because I don't think they ever had any true intention of going there. But maybe three times. And that also doesn't count their dreams of moving the team to Vegas. On top of that, once they had no choice but to sell they maliciously tried to sell the team to investors who would move it to Seattle WITHOUT EVEN GIVING LOCAL INVESTORS A CHANCE TO MATCH OR EVEN NOTIFYING THEM IT WAS ON THE MARKET. The Maloofs spent over a decade trying their best to make sure we lost our team - even after they knew they wouldn't own it anymore.
Vivek, at worst, is meddling in basketball operations that he shouldn't be meddling in. But he signed binding documents keeping the team in Sacramento for 30 years. I am not saying "bow down at the altar of Vivek" because frankly he's ticking me off, but in the annals of terrible owners he can't even be mentioned in the same chapter as the Maloofs. Anybody who says otherwise is wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Ridiculously wrong.
On the other hand, one side of the organization (business side) seems to be hitting on most cylinders (misfires possibly attributed to Basketball side) while the basketball side of operations seems either to miss-firing or missing the spark plugs entirely. Vivek is over both sides, so why is the screw-ups seemingly restricted mostly to one side?
That makes perfect sense and I agree with it, along with the hope. I had put that contrast because it seems the vindictiveness towards Vivek has increased. While the buck stops with him, I have to look at who is on the basketball side and think about the need to replace them. He may not realize it yet (in terms of basketball), but without the expertise of those under you, your sunk.Because Vivek's expertise only exists on the business side, and the lead people on the business side are also rather qualified, relative to the bball side. Vivek does not have the basketball expertise needed to succeed. At least, not yet. I do hope he figures it out before we lose Cousins.
And as it was talked to death at the time of the video, it also looked "staged" in the sense that consensus on what order of preferences was probably reached before the "event." But whatever, I hope he comes to his senses before too much more damage is done (preferably none).As I mentioned before, there is a video in the draft war room that shows Vivek basically imposing that Nik Staskus pick. Nik may end up to be decent as I don't want to write him off yet, but clearly it was whatever Vivek says goes.
Vivek claims he likes to surround himself with people smarter than himself and let them go to work, but unfortunately he only said that to name drop Steve Jobs as his good friend. In reality, he wants yes men that will echo him.
I've been hearing awful stuff about Vivek outside the forum worlds and while I have no faith in one of the sources, the person is regularly credentialed to shoot games on the court so he may have access to people that do actually know things. Everything from the routine FO missteps we talk about here to the way the players off court lives are being (mis)managed. I really don't want to believe it and I hope that as much truth there is to it can be explained by naivety curable by a disaster like what we're currently experiencing.
Ok but...... Apples to apples - at THIS point in their respective ownership tenures: Maloofs >>>> Vivek. Maloofs were great owners at first.
The maloof intent was always to move the team. I just don't see how we can say this.
Need to be careful in drawing conclusions. It could all be true or not. The he said, she said saga with the truth in between.
He is the general managing partner so the buck stops there. On the other hand, one side of the organization (business side) seems to be hitting on most cylinders (misfires possibly attributed to Basketball side) while the basketball side of operations seems either to miss-firing or missing the spark plugs entirely. Vivek is over both sides, so why is the screw-ups seemingly restricted mostly to one side?
I think that's a reasonable analysis/question. But it could end up being him just being much better at/more experienced with the business side, and not only inexperienced, but possibly arrogant in his dealing with the other. But obviously that's just sheerest speculation from me too.
regardless of if Rudy Gay was a good acquisition or not, it isn't the owners place to be making those calls or demands