Who will be the leader on this team?

#31
What sort of leadership qualities does Kevin lack?

How about all of them? As I said in the Salmons All-Star thread, lets not discuss things that make 0 sense. Here is why Martin will not be a leader on an NBA team.

1. He's 1dimensional
2. He has a tough time creating his own shot
3. He isnt a great defender
4. He is not a verbal leader


Andre87Salmons and Garcia also showed they can be clutch
are you kdding me?
 
#32
only next season will tell if he is ready to be the leader, but you have to admit that playing alongside lebron kobe and the elite SHOULD change something in him

i sure hope he brings a swagger thats good enough to change the environment of the team in a good manner.

i have a funny feeling he will be a LOT better on defense this season, well heres to hoping he isnt worn out with all the practices

leadership role in this team is an enigma.. some one has to step up and im guessing he will have to take the flak if the team bombs or get the credit if the team succeeds
 

CruzDude

Senior Member sharing a brew with bajaden
#34
How about all of them? As I said in the Salmons All-Star thread, lets not discuss things that make 0 sense. Here is why Martin will not be a leader on an NBA team.

1. He's 1dimensional
2. He has a tough time creating his own shot
3. He isnt a great defender
4. He is not a verbal leader
You might want to read Ailene's article in the Bee today. Seem's some NBA coaches involved with the Olympic team would disagree with you.
 
#37
How about all of them? As I said in the Salmons All-Star thread, lets not discuss things that make 0 sense. Here is why Martin will not be a leader on an NBA team.

1. He's 1dimensional
2. He has a tough time creating his own shot
3. He isnt a great defender
4. He is not a verbal leader




are you kdding me?
how is kevin martin one dimensional?
 
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PoundForPound

Guest
#39
How about all of them? As I said in the Salmons All-Star thread, lets not discuss things that make 0 sense. Here is why Martin will not be a leader on an NBA team.

1. He's 1dimensional
2. He has a tough time creating his own shot
3. He isnt a great defender
4. He is not a verbal leader




are you kdding me?
cough*off your rocker!* cough :p

are you serious?
 
#40
I think that leadership and charisma are genetic traits. One is born with leadership potential, or one is not. The Kings don't have a charismatic leader, and have not had one for several years. Stand by haters, but IMO Ron Artest is probably the closest thing the Kings will have in 2008-2009 to a leader. Read em and weep.

Yes, and believe it or not, grown-ups often need true leaders to be successful in stressful team situations (battles, games, and politics).

Most humans are just sheeple.
 
#41
but as far as my answer. no one. no one is the leader of this team. ron artest isnt a leader. he's a nut. a leader sets the example. artest is just a bad example
 

Spike

Subsidiary Intermediary
Staff member
#42
95% of his highlights are 2 handed dunks.
Who's highlights aren't 2 handed dunks? "Look at the way Gilbert rotated on defense, well done!" Kevin gets to the basket. He can shoot the open jumper. He can dunk (per your comments.) I'm not sure how many more ways there are to score...
 
#43
Who's highlights aren't 2 handed dunks? "Look at the way Gilbert rotated on defense, well done!" Kevin gets to the basket. He can shoot the open jumper. He can dunk (per your comments.) I'm not sure how many more ways there are to score...

all kobe's highlights arent dunks. there are good passes, spin moves, crossovers, reverse layups, jumpers with 3 defenders in his face. you see the same from iverson, davis, almost everyone else. you watch kevin martin on youtube you see backcuts and two handed throw downs. and oh yeah, a couple wide open 3 pointers. :rolleyes:. shocked at how much the standards have decreased around here since "the team" broke up
 
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PoundForPound

Guest
#44
all kobe's highlights arent dunks. there are good passes, spin moves, crossovers, reverse layups, jumpers with 3 defenders in his face. you see the same from iverson, davis, almost everyone else. you watch kevin martin on youtube you see backcuts and two handed throw downs. and oh yeah, a couple wide open 3 pointers. :rolleyes:. shocked at how much the standards have decreased around here since "the team" broke up
now he's getting into the "he can't dunk like kobe so that's why kevin martin is not a leader" :rolleyes:
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#46
Leadership isn't about highlight reels. Its about who your're willing to follow into battle. As an ex-marine, I can tell you that I had officers that I would have followed into hell, and others that I wouldn't have followed into a Dairy Queen.

Leaders are generally selfless people who appear to care only about the job to be done and the people who will help them do it. Its someone you know has your back when you need it, and someone that will never throw you under the bus to save themselves. Its someone, most of all, that you respect.

On the old Kings, the leader wasn't Webber, and it wasn't Bibby. It was Vlade. And when Vlade left, the Kings were done. Vlade wasn't the best player on the team, and he certainly wasn't a highlight reel candidate. But he was a steadying influence on the team. I remember sitting behind the Kings bench one night as they came off the floor for a timeout. As they approached the bench Funderburke and J. Will started jawing at one another, and I remember J. Will's face getting as red as a beet. Teammates had to jump between them to prevent possible blows being thrown. The next thing I remember was Vlade having J. Will's head under one arm and Funderburke's head under the other and talking to them. I don't know what he said, but it worked. They both smiled at the end of it and played the rest of the game well.

My point is, that everyone else on the team at that time just sat and watched. Only Vlade did anything to resolve the situation. So Martin, or whoever it is that tries to pick up the mantle of leadership, doesn't have to be Kobe or Jordan etc. They just have to be leaders, and they're teammates will know if they are or not.
 
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Spike

Subsidiary Intermediary
Staff member
#47
all kobe's highlights arent dunks. there are good passes, spin moves, crossovers, reverse layups, jumpers with 3 defenders in his face. you see the same from iverson, davis, almost everyone else. you watch kevin martin on youtube you see backcuts and two handed throw downs. and oh yeah, a couple wide open 3 pointers. :rolleyes:. shocked at how much the standards have decreased around here since "the team" broke up
This is my last point on this side conversation:

How much is a layup worth? How much is a dunk worth? How much is an 18 ft shot worth? (Hint: it's the same.)
Finally, any NBA "shooter" worth their salt should be able to hit a wide open 3.
 
#48
Leadership isn't about highlight reels. Its about who your're willing to follow into battle. As an ex-marine, I can tell you that I had officers that I would have followed into hell, and others that I wouldn't have followed into a Dairy Queen.

Leaders are generally selfless people who appear to care only about the job to be done and the people who will help them do it. Its someone you know has your back when you need it, and someone that will never throw you under the bus to save themselves. Its someone, most of all, that you respect.

On the old Kings, the leader wasn't Webber, and it wasn't Bibby. It was Vlade. And when Vlade left, the Kings were done. Vlade wasn't the best player on the team, and he certainly wasn't a highlight reel candidate. But he was a steadying influence on the team. I remember sitting behind the Kings bench one night as they came off the floor for a timeout. As they approached the bench Funderburke and J. Will started jawing at one another, and I remember J. Will's face getting as red as a beet. Teammates had to jump between them to prevent possible blows being thrown. The next thing I remember was Vlade having J. Will's head under one arm and Funderburke's head under the other and talking to them. I don't know what he said, but it worked. They both smiled at the end of it and played the rest of the game well.

My point is, that everyone else on the team at that time just sat and watched. Only Vlade did anything to resolve the situation. So Martin, or whoever it is that tries to pick up the mantle of leadership, doesn't have to be Kobe or Jordan etc. They just have to be leaders, and they're teammates will know if they are or not.

yall have a dairy queen?:eek:
 
#49
It's nice that Kevin wants to take on the role of being "the leader". It will now be his fifth year in the league, and with the possiblity that Brad and/or Ron may be traded, why shouldn't he be the one that wants to assume the title.

Tyrant: I wouldn't trust Youtube as a basis as to what Kevin can and can not do because people are just stringing together what they want you to look at. Plus you're using Kobe Bryant as an example, Kevin is not on the same skill length as Kobe(then again who is). Kobe can triple knot his shoelaces and Jim Gray will be right there reporting to sportscenter as a highlight.

As a safe choice I'd choose Kevin, with Francisco not too far behind based on on what I've read about him being on vocal in the locker rooms and timeouts.
 
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#50
Apparently, being #6 in scoring, #3 in points per shot, and the first player in NBA history to go to the line 9 times per game while shooting 40% from three, all equates to a couple dunks and a wide open three here and there.
 

Spike

Subsidiary Intermediary
Staff member
#51
Apparently, being #6 in scoring, #3 in points per shot, and the first player in NBA history to go to the line 9 times per game while shooting 40% from three, all equates to a couple dunks and a wide open three here and there.
Don't bring logic into this argument.
 
#52
Don't bring logic into this argument.

what logic? blatantly dumb facts!! i dont even know if they're facts at all. did he just make that up? the nba has stats for everything now. i bet theres a stat column for how many players that have dunked with loose shoe strings. :rolleyes:

and the first player in NBA history to go to the line 9 times per game while shooting 40% from three
WHAT?
 
#53
what logic? blatantly dumb facts!!
No, let's stick with your asinine analytical method of surveying Youtube highlight packages.

what logic? blatantly dumb facts!! i dont even know if they're facts at all. did he just make that up? the nba has stats for everything now. i bet theres a stat column for how many players that have dunked with loose shoe strings. :rolleyes:
Points Per Game

Points Per Shot


http://www.sacbee.com/static/weblogs/sports/kings/archives/011964.html

This season, Kevin Martin got 9.5 FTAs per game (#5 in the league). He also took 4.4 3PAs per game, and scored on 40.2% of those. That's good diversity. (<-- Understatement.)

How many players have ever averaged at least 9 FTAs per game and shot at least 40% from three (taking at least 1 three per game)? One. Kevin Martin, this season.

How many players have ever averaged at least 8 FTAs per game and shot at least 40% from three (taking at least 1 three per game)? Two. Kevin Martin and Michael Jordan.

And as it turns out, Bee research shows the stat goes a bit further. Forget about free throws attempted: This season, Martin became the first player in NBA history to make at least eight free throws per game while shooting at least 40 percent from three-point range.
 

Spike

Subsidiary Intermediary
Staff member
#54
what logic? blatantly dumb facts!! i dont even know if they're facts at all. did he just make that up? the nba has stats for everything now. i bet theres a stat column for how many players that have dunked with loose shoe strings. :rolleyes:



WHAT?
Let me break it down for you. ;)

If you get to the line a fair amount of times, that means that you're constantly drawing fouls. As such, you are an aggressive player. Now, some of the larger players (PF & C) will be in a position for more contact fouls based on where they play (which is in close proximity to the basket.) However, the combination of the 40% demonstrates that he is an accurate shooter as well, proving that he can hurt teams from the inside and the outside. As a result, teams have to play Kevin tightly, leading to even more trips to the line.

You may not care about stats, but I'm pretty sure most coaching staffs break these things down when they prepare for teams. I'm sorry facts got in the way of your argument. Facts are a good way to substantiate arguments.

Edit: You beat me to it, NME.
 
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#56
This season, Martin became the first player in NBA history to make at least eight free throws per game while shooting at least 40 percent from three-point range
See, this is just pure idiocy. the paragraph. not the poster. i know that there are intangibles. hustle points, charges, diving for loose balls, things that can change the outcome of a game that do not show up on the stat sheet. however, this "logic" or statement doesnt belong in a discussion. it belongs nowhere. kevin martin is not a 3 point shooter. and because he can make 8 freethrows in a game doesnt make him an offensive threat. you can powder it up and deodorize it all you like but you cant cover the fact that his game stinks compared to someone like tmac or wade. NME, you're steering away from the topic. in all four of your posts you discussed freethrows. all 4!! you have no other argument.martin is not a leader. he doesnt have the verbal qualities and he doesnt have the skill qualities. give it up
 
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PoundForPound

Guest
#58
See, this is just pure idiocy. the paragraph. not the poster. i know that there are intangibles. hustle points, charges, diving for loose balls, things that can change the outcome of a game that do not show up on the stat sheet. however, this "logic" or statement doesnt belong in a discussion. it belongs nowhere. kevin martin is not a 3 point shooter. and because he can make 8 freethrows in a game doesnt make him an offensive threat. you can powder it up and deodorize it all you like but you cant cover the fact that his game stinks compared to someone like tmac or wade. NME, you're steering away from the topic. in all four of your posts you discussed freethrows. all 4!! you have no other argument.martin is not a leader. he doesnt have the verbal qualities and he doesnt have the skill qualities. give it up
...now you're just frustrated with the responses you're getting in this thread and you're posting a bunch of jiberrish.
 
#60
my statements are not posted out of being furious or upset. those are just the facts. kevin martin is NOT a great 3 point shooter. you wouldnt want him taking a 3 pointer over bibby (pre-trade) to decide your game would you? as a matter of fact mike was the one taking all the game winners. even half the time with ron being here. some people need a little common sense. this thread is lacking a great deal of it right now