Who Are Kings Bringing in For Pre-draft Workouts?
- Thread starter RichieInRocklin
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Obviously everything has to be taken with more than a grain of salt at this point in the process but if we were looking for an explanation as to why the Kings brought in Smart if it's the case that they don't really like his game then it's not hard to concoct a plausible one. Whether Smart can run a team or not, he has elite size & strength for a PG and is a top tier college defender. It only makes sense to see guys like Ennis and Peyton go against him. And likewise to see how they guard a physically imposing guard, especially Ennis who was never forced to defend man-to-man due to Syracuse's zone D.
Plausible? Who knows? But I would say that if the Kings are really as keen on trading the pick as they seem to indicate then why wouldn't the smoke screen be that they absolutely loved Smart? And Vonleh for that matter? I would think that the FO would be looking to hype up the players (and the team's interest in them) that are projected to be around when the Kings are on the clock.
I'm largely on the same page with you regarding Smart and Tyreke. Not a great comparison other than that both guys got moved to the PG position and have great size for that spot. Tyreke has one of the best handles in the NBA and I'd argue he's got the best handle of anybody his size. Smart is a capable handler but not in the same league. Tyreke was impossibly shifty with great body control when attacking the rim whereas Smart is a bowling ball. Defensively Smart is better by simple virtue of his dedication on that end. Evans flashed the potential of being a very good defender but never made the concerted effort to be great. And that's the one reason I could see Smart being better than Evans. To me Tyreke was a far better prospect entering the NBA but I just never saw a killer instinct and/or the will to be great out of him. Smart might be mentally stronger/tougher and have more desire to improve. They won't be similar players and as prospects I was much more impressed with Evans but at the NBA level the separation between good and great has so much to do with putting in the work to improve and Smart could potentially have a big edge there. We'll see.
I don't see the fit for Gordon. If Gay returns he'd be forced to get most of his minutes at the PF spot which he's not built to defend right now and doesn't have the weak side defense or rebounding to really be a good fit next to Cuz. If Gay leaves then you have Gordon and Williams fighting it out to start at the SF spot. Obviously Gordon gives you a lot more defensively at the 3 but offensively both guys are athletic, inconsistent and not much else. Just like Randle, I like Gordon just not on this Kings team led by DeMarcus Cousins.
I'd be very okay with Payton though. Especially if the Kings could pry Sanders from Milwaukee for expiring contracts or enders plus JT or Landry. If the Cavs pass on Embiid and the Bucks nab him I think Sanders becomes that much more available and I'd much prefer the Kings gambling on Larry returning to form than drafting Vonleh (or Randle) or giving up a ton to get Kevin Love.
Payton
McLemore
Gay
Sanders
Cousins
Is a nice core to me. I'd love to have IT back. He would take pressure of Payton having to start right away and then (assuming Payton develops into a quality player) Thomas would be an elite sixth man. Add in a guy like Anthony Morrow to back up McLemore at the SG spot and I'd feel pretty good about how that team would fare next year and over the next four or five years.
Plausible? Who knows? But I would say that if the Kings are really as keen on trading the pick as they seem to indicate then why wouldn't the smoke screen be that they absolutely loved Smart? And Vonleh for that matter? I would think that the FO would be looking to hype up the players (and the team's interest in them) that are projected to be around when the Kings are on the clock.
I'm largely on the same page with you regarding Smart and Tyreke. Not a great comparison other than that both guys got moved to the PG position and have great size for that spot. Tyreke has one of the best handles in the NBA and I'd argue he's got the best handle of anybody his size. Smart is a capable handler but not in the same league. Tyreke was impossibly shifty with great body control when attacking the rim whereas Smart is a bowling ball. Defensively Smart is better by simple virtue of his dedication on that end. Evans flashed the potential of being a very good defender but never made the concerted effort to be great. And that's the one reason I could see Smart being better than Evans. To me Tyreke was a far better prospect entering the NBA but I just never saw a killer instinct and/or the will to be great out of him. Smart might be mentally stronger/tougher and have more desire to improve. They won't be similar players and as prospects I was much more impressed with Evans but at the NBA level the separation between good and great has so much to do with putting in the work to improve and Smart could potentially have a big edge there. We'll see.
I don't see the fit for Gordon. If Gay returns he'd be forced to get most of his minutes at the PF spot which he's not built to defend right now and doesn't have the weak side defense or rebounding to really be a good fit next to Cuz. If Gay leaves then you have Gordon and Williams fighting it out to start at the SF spot. Obviously Gordon gives you a lot more defensively at the 3 but offensively both guys are athletic, inconsistent and not much else. Just like Randle, I like Gordon just not on this Kings team led by DeMarcus Cousins.
I'd be very okay with Payton though. Especially if the Kings could pry Sanders from Milwaukee for expiring contracts or enders plus JT or Landry. If the Cavs pass on Embiid and the Bucks nab him I think Sanders becomes that much more available and I'd much prefer the Kings gambling on Larry returning to form than drafting Vonleh (or Randle) or giving up a ton to get Kevin Love.
Payton
McLemore
Gay
Sanders
Cousins
Is a nice core to me. I'd love to have IT back. He would take pressure of Payton having to start right away and then (assuming Payton develops into a quality player) Thomas would be an elite sixth man. Add in a guy like Anthony Morrow to back up McLemore at the SG spot and I'd feel pretty good about how that team would fare next year and over the next four or five years.
I agree with most of your post. I can see drafting Gordon mostly as a projection on who he might become, since he's so young right now. He could become a solid spot up option and then his hustle and defense and above-average rebounding for a wing would play well at SF. Or he could continue growing and bulk up a bit and become a versatile athletic PF. It's dangerous drafting players for skills they don't already have though. Takes a lot of faith in your coaching staff. I agree he's not an ideal fit with Cousins in either scenario -- particularly when we already have Williams on the team who's in the middle of a similar identity crisis about where he fits best in a lineup. But... he's also a guy that could really make you regret passing on him in a few years.
I'd be happy with that lineup too for this season -- Payton and McLemore in the back court with Sanders and Cousins in the front court and Rudy Gay as the second option on the wing. Gay and Cousins work together I think only when you have low-usage players around them which would be the case here. I'm still nervous about committing long-term to him, but at least if you put this lineup on the floor for 82 games you should have a good idea on whether it's going to work or not before you sign the big contract.
I'd be happy with that lineup too for this season -- Payton and McLemore in the back court with Sanders and Cousins in the front court and Rudy Gay as the second option on the wing. Gay and Cousins work together I think only when you have low-usage players around them which would be the case here. I'm still nervous about committing long-term to him, but at least if you put this lineup on the floor for 82 games you should have a good idea on whether it's going to work or not before you sign the big contract.
i'd be ok with that line up. there are 2 good defenders to balance the roster. sanders or cousins setting picks for mclemore, gay or payton to get open. that could realistically happen. now if we could find a trade partner so we could pry an additional asset for moving down a few slots to pick payton.
Here's an interesting thing. Peja Stojakovic and Ben McLemore had almost identical stats in their rookie years. I mean eerily close. 8.4 vs 8.8 ppg, 37.6% vs 37.8% on FG% and 32% each on 3P%. Even their rebound, steal and block numbers are really close. Ben played 5 more minutes per game but Peja took more shots per minute and had the higher usage rate.
About the only stats that aren't really close are the PFs per game (2.5 for Ben vs 0.9 for Peja), assists (1.0 for Ben vs 1.5 for Peja) and FT% (80.4% for Ben vs 85.1% for Peja). I don't know whether the foul disparity was due to Peja being passive and Ben being aggressive or if Ben had less defensive discipline and awareness than Peja who had been playing professionally for a few years at that point. The assist figure is pretty obvious. Peja played on a team with good passers for their position in Webber, Vlade & Jason Williams (and Tariq Abdul-Wahad) for an offensive minded coach in Adelman. The passing was contagious.
The FT% is about the only red flag. Both McLemore and Stojakovic came into the league as shooters but struggled with their shot rookie year. But Peja shot 5% better from the stripe which is a relatively good indicator of future success with young players. Still, 80% isn't awful.
Am I saying McLemore will have a Peja-like career arc? Nope. Not that it isn't possible but I'm certainly not pinning my hopes on that. What I am saying is that young shooters often come in to the NBA and struggle. Especially in the case of a young European player or an American kid who is still fairly new to playing organized basketball.
And if it turns out that McLemore doesn't make the huge jump I'm somewhat expecting next year into a credible 3&D guy then all the more reason to sign a veteran shooter like Morrow who can step in and play. Because with the Cousin/Gay duo (assuming Rudy returns) and whether it's IT back at the PG or a rookie like Smart or Peyton (or even Exum or Ennis) what the Kings need most from the SG position is a reliable outside shooter who can defend his position, make hustle plays and ideally have the athleticism to back cut for easy points when the defense falls asleep on him. I think Ben can be that guy next year and hopefully much more as his career moves along.
About the only stats that aren't really close are the PFs per game (2.5 for Ben vs 0.9 for Peja), assists (1.0 for Ben vs 1.5 for Peja) and FT% (80.4% for Ben vs 85.1% for Peja). I don't know whether the foul disparity was due to Peja being passive and Ben being aggressive or if Ben had less defensive discipline and awareness than Peja who had been playing professionally for a few years at that point. The assist figure is pretty obvious. Peja played on a team with good passers for their position in Webber, Vlade & Jason Williams (and Tariq Abdul-Wahad) for an offensive minded coach in Adelman. The passing was contagious.
The FT% is about the only red flag. Both McLemore and Stojakovic came into the league as shooters but struggled with their shot rookie year. But Peja shot 5% better from the stripe which is a relatively good indicator of future success with young players. Still, 80% isn't awful.
Am I saying McLemore will have a Peja-like career arc? Nope. Not that it isn't possible but I'm certainly not pinning my hopes on that. What I am saying is that young shooters often come in to the NBA and struggle. Especially in the case of a young European player or an American kid who is still fairly new to playing organized basketball.
And if it turns out that McLemore doesn't make the huge jump I'm somewhat expecting next year into a credible 3&D guy then all the more reason to sign a veteran shooter like Morrow who can step in and play. Because with the Cousin/Gay duo (assuming Rudy returns) and whether it's IT back at the PG or a rookie like Smart or Peyton (or even Exum or Ennis) what the Kings need most from the SG position is a reliable outside shooter who can defend his position, make hustle plays and ideally have the athleticism to back cut for easy points when the defense falls asleep on him. I think Ben can be that guy next year and hopefully much more as his career moves along.
Thanks,you guys. I hope you are right. The shooting doesn't even enter my concerns. I's the mishandling of the basketball, the turnovers, the inability to safely and usefully dribble, and bad passing - all qualities the SG needs to make a team passing game work, the qualities that make the PG and the other starters better. Ben was so bad it almost made him a nonentity. He improved but was no where near adequate in that basic part of his game. Because of that I have been advocating getting a starter and having Ben grow and learn off the bench. Your thoughts have encouraged me - a little.
It's the best way to maximize his development both in the short term and the big picture. I believe the kid can still be the best of his class and sort of a pressure release around Cuz and Rudy(?) and IT(?) by keeping the defense spread and moving without the ball. I also noticed some really good passing from him.
Adam Zagoria @AdamZagoria 5h
Some NBA Draft intel I've heard...Utah loves Dante Exum at 5, Sacramento likes Nik Stauskas at 8 & Charlotte likes McBuckets at 9
Thought I'd post it since I'm a Stauskas fan.........Thank god for rumors. If not for them, we'd have nothing to talk about.
Some NBA Draft intel I've heard...Utah loves Dante Exum at 5, Sacramento likes Nik Stauskas at 8 & Charlotte likes McBuckets at 9
Thought I'd post it since I'm a Stauskas fan.........Thank god for rumors. If not for them, we'd have nothing to talk about.
And that was essentially what I was getting at. Young shooters often struggle a bit early on but their FT% shows that when they are at the line and everything slows down that their mechanics are solid. It's a reason to hope their in game shooting will come around.
That said, I would think that as time goes by Ben will improve his handle enough to be a threat to drive and score or go to the line. Assuming his shot comes around he'll shoot to setup the drive or the backcut when teams start playing him too tight at the arc.
That said, I would think that as time goes by Ben will improve his handle enough to be a threat to drive and score or go to the line. Assuming his shot comes around he'll shoot to setup the drive or the backcut when teams start playing him too tight at the arc.