Who Are Kings Bringing in For Pre-draft Workouts?
- Thread starter RichieInRocklin
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Sure he's stronger. The Rams should have drafted him at #7. He'd make a great football player, as one of the King execs said. (Not really what you want to hear if you're drafting him for basketball). However, he's not even in the time zone when it comes to quickness and explosiveness of the players referenced above. I'd love to have Exum, despite his poor shooting, because he does have quickness. As Baja has referenced, he went around Smart like he was glued to the floor. Hopefully, both Smart and Gordon will be gone before the Kings pick, but if he's not, hopefully the Kings pass.
What bizarre logic! Did you actually think he was saying Smart would be better suited to football?! It's used as a way to describe players who are stronger/more athletic than they really should be. It's an advantage, not a disadvantage. Same thing was said about other NBA prospects (LeBron, Dwight, Wade etc - and no, I'm not saying he's going to be as good before you misinterpret my point).
Well, again, you're wrong. It's really not a matter of opinion. Well I guess it technically is an opinion, just an inept one. Kind of like saying LeBron isn't in Carmelo's league athletically. You're free to have it as your opinion but it doesn't mean it should be taken seriously. Smart is a considerably better all-round athlete than both Rondo and Parker. Doesn't mean he'll be a better player of course, but clearly superior athletically. Come back to me when you see Parker/Rondo showing this type of athleticism:
Don't bother mentioning the competition level, that's just a way to divert attention from what we're discussing - athleticism. To deny that Smart is an excellent athlete is to just bury your head in the sand. Not on the level of Rose/Westbrook obviously, but not as far behind as you like to believe.
Yeah, Exum really torched him to the tune of 7 points, 2 rebounds, 4 turnovers in 11 minutes (Smart had 11pts, 4asts, 2stls in 17 mins). Once again, you're not actually referencing reality, just throwing out unsubstantiated claims to try and strengthen your position. Repeating something doesn't make it true. And criticising Smart's defense ("glued to the floor") is pretty silly considering Smart is the best defensive guard in the draft and has excellent lateral quickness. Look at the breakdown of his defense versus Wiggins if you're actually interested in learning about him.
Look, I don't have a problem with you disliking Smart. He's certainly not flawless. It just makes you look silly when you start questioning parts of his game that really aren't weaknesses. Want to question his shooting ability, shot-selection and decision making? Absolutely fine. Want to question his athleticism and defense? Nope, not going to fly because it's flat out stupid.
Well, again, you're wrong. It's really not a matter of opinion. Well I guess it technically is an opinion, just an inept one. Kind of like saying LeBron isn't in Carmelo's league athletically. You're free to have it as your opinion but it doesn't mean it should be taken seriously. Smart is a considerably better all-round athlete than both Rondo and Parker. Doesn't mean he'll be a better player of course, but clearly superior athletically. Come back to me when you see Parker/Rondo showing this type of athleticism:
Don't bother mentioning the competition level, that's just a way to divert attention from what we're discussing - athleticism. To deny that Smart is an excellent athlete is to just bury your head in the sand. Not on the level of Rose/Westbrook obviously, but not as far behind as you like to believe.
Yeah, Exum really torched him to the tune of 7 points, 2 rebounds, 4 turnovers in 11 minutes (Smart had 11pts, 4asts, 2stls in 17 mins). Once again, you're not actually referencing reality, just throwing out unsubstantiated claims to try and strengthen your position. Repeating something doesn't make it true. And criticising Smart's defense ("glued to the floor") is pretty silly considering Smart is the best defensive guard in the draft and has excellent lateral quickness. Look at the breakdown of his defense versus Wiggins if you're actually interested in learning about him.
Look, I don't have a problem with you disliking Smart. He's certainly not flawless. It just makes you look silly when you start questioning parts of his game that really aren't weaknesses. Want to question his shooting ability, shot-selection and decision making? Absolutely fine. Want to question his athleticism and defense? Nope, not going to fly because it's flat out stupid.
Yah, Kingster is not correct on this subject. The whole explosiveness vs. quickness argument is asinine.
Smart can defend.. That's what we want in a PG, right? He has long arms and quick feet and is VERY strong. PGs will not get around him consistently without Smart at least getting a hand on the ball. Isn't this what we want in a PG? Smart can get to the basket. Smart can run an offense. He's the polar opposite of IT. I figure people would be excited to have a chance at this guy. I have seen a TON of Smart this year. He's going to be good in the NBA. All-star good someday. Guarantee it.
Smart can defend.. That's what we want in a PG, right? He has long arms and quick feet and is VERY strong. PGs will not get around him consistently without Smart at least getting a hand on the ball. Isn't this what we want in a PG? Smart can get to the basket. Smart can run an offense. He's the polar opposite of IT. I figure people would be excited to have a chance at this guy. I have seen a TON of Smart this year. He's going to be good in the NBA. All-star good someday. Guarantee it.
Back to the original topic: According to Hoopsrumors, the Kings have a workout scheduled with Rodney Hood.
“Oklahoma State sophomore point guard Marcus Smart … put up a lane agility test score of 10.82 seconds. That score places him directly into the same category with some well-respected company in terms of current NBA point guards as he posted a quicker time than John Wall, Russell Westbrook and Chris Paul."
http://www.nba.com/kings/blog/prospect-profile-marcus-smart
http://www.nba.com/kings/blog/prospect-profile-marcus-smart
Look, I don't want to look like I'm only interested in saying negative things about Smart, but I have to respond once in a while. Smart has decent handles, but he's not Tyreke Evans. Most scouts compare him to Evans as a matter of fact. One Scout called him a poor man's Tyreke Evans, and I agree. Like Evans, he never played PG until his freshman year of college. And while he has good height for a PG, if that is truely his final position, he measured out at 6'3.5", Evans measured out at 6'5". While he has a big wingspan, Evans has a bigger wingspan. While he's most effective offensively going to the basket, Evans is far superior at going to the basket. Smart is more of a straight line attacker, while Evans can change directions, use crossovers in traffic, and seemingly squirm through the smallest holes and score. In general, Tyreke is a better player than Smart, and will probably always be a better player, but that's just my opinion.
My question is, if the Kings didn't want Evans, then why would they want Smart. I find it strange that a few individuals (not you) didn't like Evans as our PG, but for some strange reason want Smart as our PG. Either they haven't actually watched Smart play, or they have some other reason for not liking Evans. Some have pointed to the workout video of Smart as a reference for how well he can actually shoot the ball. All I can say is that most players look good shooting the ball in a workout setting. Of course its better to be hitting your shots in that setting, but I don't personally put much value on it. I mean I've watched Smart play over 40 times in the last two years, so one workout video isn't going to make me believe he's suddenly become a good shooter.
It's not that I believe Smart isn't going to become a good player for someone. I just don't think he's the player for us. If everyone is looking for a true PG, whatever that is, it isn't Smart. Right now, Smart is a very strong SG that can't shoot, that's trying to overcome his scoring tendencies, and play like a PG. In year one, I thought he did a darned good job for a player that hadn't played the position before. But I saw little or no growth between his freshman and sophmore year, either as a PG, or with his shooting. Last year, if we were picking 8th, and Smart fell to us, I would have grabbed him in a heartbeat, because he has a lot of talent. Particularly on the defensive side of the ball. And, because he simply would have been the best player available. I know you could argue with hindsight, that there were some other players taken later that might have been better, but no one knew that at the time.
I don't dislike Smart, I just don't think he's the best choice for us, and frankly, I think that Ennis or Payton may prove to be better players down the road. I mean if your looking for a pass first PG, then why not look at Ennis. I know, and I agree, Syracuse players scare me too. In closing, I have serious questions about Smart being a PG, just as there were questions about Tyreke being a PG. I always saw Tyreke as a combo guard, but then he jumped up and impressed me his first year, and at that point, I became convinced that he could play the position. Unfortunately his first year was his best year. As to why is a discussion for another day. If I thought Smart was the second coming of Rondo, I'd be on board. But I just don't see it. As I said, if we end up drafting him, I'll be disappointed, and I'll be praying that I was dead wrong about him. But, I'll certainly support him. I have no dog in this hunt. I just want what's best for the team. If that ends up being Smart, than I'll stand corrected, and move on to next year. Put Smart on the Miami Heat, and he'll look great. Put him on the Kings, and not so much.
My question is, if the Kings didn't want Evans, then why would they want Smart. I find it strange that a few individuals (not you) didn't like Evans as our PG, but for some strange reason want Smart as our PG. Either they haven't actually watched Smart play, or they have some other reason for not liking Evans. Some have pointed to the workout video of Smart as a reference for how well he can actually shoot the ball. All I can say is that most players look good shooting the ball in a workout setting. Of course its better to be hitting your shots in that setting, but I don't personally put much value on it. I mean I've watched Smart play over 40 times in the last two years, so one workout video isn't going to make me believe he's suddenly become a good shooter.
It's not that I believe Smart isn't going to become a good player for someone. I just don't think he's the player for us. If everyone is looking for a true PG, whatever that is, it isn't Smart. Right now, Smart is a very strong SG that can't shoot, that's trying to overcome his scoring tendencies, and play like a PG. In year one, I thought he did a darned good job for a player that hadn't played the position before. But I saw little or no growth between his freshman and sophmore year, either as a PG, or with his shooting. Last year, if we were picking 8th, and Smart fell to us, I would have grabbed him in a heartbeat, because he has a lot of talent. Particularly on the defensive side of the ball. And, because he simply would have been the best player available. I know you could argue with hindsight, that there were some other players taken later that might have been better, but no one knew that at the time.
I don't dislike Smart, I just don't think he's the best choice for us, and frankly, I think that Ennis or Payton may prove to be better players down the road. I mean if your looking for a pass first PG, then why not look at Ennis. I know, and I agree, Syracuse players scare me too. In closing, I have serious questions about Smart being a PG, just as there were questions about Tyreke being a PG. I always saw Tyreke as a combo guard, but then he jumped up and impressed me his first year, and at that point, I became convinced that he could play the position. Unfortunately his first year was his best year. As to why is a discussion for another day. If I thought Smart was the second coming of Rondo, I'd be on board. But I just don't see it. As I said, if we end up drafting him, I'll be disappointed, and I'll be praying that I was dead wrong about him. But, I'll certainly support him. I have no dog in this hunt. I just want what's best for the team. If that ends up being Smart, than I'll stand corrected, and move on to next year. Put Smart on the Miami Heat, and he'll look great. Put him on the Kings, and not so much.
When I watched Tyreke at Memphis, he blew me away with his ability to get to the basket. When everyone was falling all over themselves hoping for Rubio to fall to us in the draft, I suggested that if we wanted to draft a star, and some of the top guys were gone, then we should draft Tyreke Evans, not Rubio. This was at a point when very little conversation had been made about Evans. What I'm trying to say, is that Evans blew me away, and Smart doesn't. Marcus Smart is no Tyreke Evans. At least not when it comes to attacking the basket. The main thing they have in common, is that neither is very good shooter from beyond the arc.
If Smart had Rondo's natural PG instincts, then I'd have an entirely different opinion of him. But he doesn't. And by the way, Wall has improved his jumpshot, and while it needed repair, he never looked as bad as Smart while shooting the ball in a real game.
If Smart had Rondo's natural PG instincts, then I'd have an entirely different opinion of him. But he doesn't. And by the way, Wall has improved his jumpshot, and while it needed repair, he never looked as bad as Smart while shooting the ball in a real game.
Baja, my original comment was in response to someone who incorrectly said that PGs don't succeed in the NBA with a weak shot. I was pointing out that it's not true, that's all. As for Tyreke, I agree Smart isn't as good at getting to the basket, but Tyreke might be the best in the NBA at that. I think Smart has PG instincts and will be a full time PG at the next level who can also play SG, rather than the other way around. Maybe that's where we differ. I think Smart can run an offense better than Tyreke could, and I don't even think they're that similar as players.
As for Peyton and Ennis, I'm a fan of Peyton and would be down with us taking him. Ennis, not so much. Don't think he does anything well enough to be a stand-out player in the NBA. Solid back-up or low level starter is his ceiling in my opinion. Not really a fan.
As for Wall, I disagree re the shot. I think Smart's form is better than Wall's. At this point I think it's better to just wait and see, as no side is really going to change their opinion until we see what they can do in the NBA. Even then, some won't change their minds (I know who that guy will be and it's not you Baja).
As for Peyton and Ennis, I'm a fan of Peyton and would be down with us taking him. Ennis, not so much. Don't think he does anything well enough to be a stand-out player in the NBA. Solid back-up or low level starter is his ceiling in my opinion. Not really a fan.
As for Wall, I disagree re the shot. I think Smart's form is better than Wall's. At this point I think it's better to just wait and see, as no side is really going to change their opinion until we see what they can do in the NBA. Even then, some won't change their minds (I know who that guy will be and it's not you Baja).
I am going to answer this question because I am one of these people (My question is, if the Kings didn't want Evans, then why would they want Smart?)
Smart is a PG. Evans was not. Pretty much plain and simple.
Neither had a lot of PG experience going into the NBA draft but Smart showed that he could run an offense. Evans did not
Smart showed that he could guard smaller PGs. Evans could not. The potential was there but speedy PGs gave him issues. Smarts reaction time is much faster than Evans, and he's better at on the fly decisions. I guess he has a higher basketball IQ? He's able to adjust on the fly when playing D.
The only thing that I really see that's similar between the two is their build, going to the rim, and their bad jumpshot. Other than that they play two different positions.
Well, I will change my mind once proven wrong, which has happened more than I want to admit. As for Ennis. True pass first PG's suffer the problem of looking like their not doing all that much at times. All they do is make the simple pass at the right time in the right place, and a basket is scored. I will admit that he doesn't have the flair that some in the past have had, but he does a good job of running the team and making the right pass. No bells or whistles, just efficient. I think he's going to be pretty good if that's what your looking for. But we'll see. My favorite PG in the draft after Exum is Payton..
My opinion on Ennis comes with the caveat that I didn't see too many Syracuse games last year, probably five or six. So maybe I'm not being completely fair. BUT from what I did see, he is a solid true point guard. You're right, makes the right plays at the right times. But in the NBA you need something to hang your hat on, and I don't see it with Ennis. Maybe in a few years he can be a good player, but right now he's going to get physically overwhelmed in the NBA. Could be wrong, I don't feel strongly about him either way. But I wouldn't be happy if we took him.
If you honestly believe that, then there's nothing I can say, other than your wrong. How you can love Smart, and not love Tyreke is beyond my comprehension. Tyreke is the better player, and once Smart is in the NBA, you'll see what I'm talking about. Tyreke made Memphis a better team. Smart didn't make Oklahoma St. a better team. They barely made the tournament, and one could argue that they shouldn't have made it with their record. Sorry, but I have to disagree with you. But that's what makes the world go around....
To be honest, he's not on my wish list either. I think we need some sort of impact player, regardless of position. That's why I like Stauskas. I know he can impact a game. And I'm sure Smart can impact a game on the defensive side of the ball. I think Gordon can impact a game. I think Ennis may, in a couple of years, and like you, I could be wrong. I'd love to move up and get Vonleh, who I also think can impact a game, and may not be done growing yet. He's only 18 years old. Ditto Gordon, whose also only 18 years old. If I were to take a flyer on the future, then I'd throw caution to the wind and draft LaVine,
K
I'm jumping on the draft Smart bandwagon, we need winners who will fight you to the death for a win and the only other guy right now on this team that has that is Reggie Evans. The team needs borderline thugs who can actually ball and Smart is that.
Smart + Mccallum = two physical beefy guards who can wear down the opposition PG banging them around all game.
Smart + Mccallum = two physical beefy guards who can wear down the opposition PG banging them around all game.
Some rumors that I heard, and bear in mind, these are like third party rumors. The Kings were very impressed with Payton in the workout. They thought Smart was a little overweight, and implied that Payton may have outplayed Smart in head to head, whatever that means. One unnamed official said the Kings might even consider drafting Payton at 8. (I have trouble believing that) It was also rumored that the Kings have zero interest in Smart, who they think is too much like Evans, who they didn't think was a good fit. Sounds a little made up to me, and if true, it could also be a smoke screen. I mean if they have zero interest, then why bring him in for a workout. They were also impressed with Vonleh. Not so much with Ennis, whose PG skills they like, but question his ability to defend.
How much is true is debatable. One thing that may be true is that they really like Payton, who apparently impressed them a lot. Personally, I think they have their sights set on Gordon. Why bring him for a secret meeting with Vivek. No one would have known if not for a national writer who somehow found out about it, and asked the other journalists where Gordon was at the workout. I think there's a lot of smoke and mirrors going on.
I can't supply a link, or validate any of this, so take it for what it's worth. There's usually an element of truth in every rumor, but you never get the whole truth. There's a lot of poker being played right now.
How much is true is debatable. One thing that may be true is that they really like Payton, who apparently impressed them a lot. Personally, I think they have their sights set on Gordon. Why bring him for a secret meeting with Vivek. No one would have known if not for a national writer who somehow found out about it, and asked the other journalists where Gordon was at the workout. I think there's a lot of smoke and mirrors going on.
I can't supply a link, or validate any of this, so take it for what it's worth. There's usually an element of truth in every rumor, but you never get the whole truth. There's a lot of poker being played right now.
Short of trading into the top 4, it's Payton and Gordon at the top of my wishlist in that order, so for my part I hope these rumors are true. Both guys are good defenders and Payton also has good size for the position and the right set of tools to develop into a starting PG. Gordon might grow into the PF position or he might improve his spot-up jumper enough to be a Shawn Marion type of combo forward.
I think they're just doing their due diligence here. It sounds like Gordon is in play starting at Utah's #5 so his agent may be doing some gamesmanship limiting his workouts lower in the draft. At least if we got him in for an informal meeting you can get a better idea of some of the behind the scenes aspects of who he is that you don't see on game tape. And if you think you might want to draft a PG, getting Smart, Ennis, and Payton in together to see how they match up was a great idea. Seems something didn't work out with Ennis being pushed to a later workout, but we've both been saying Payton is a safer PG pick than Smart so it's a good sign that he looked good against him. These guys did play on the same team last summer (and Payton got the starting PG job there) so they should be very familiar with each other by now. Then again, maybe LA schedules the same workout we did and they like Payton more than Smart too. There's certainly a scenario where Gordon and Payton go in the 5-7 range and we get either Randle or Vonleh. I wouldn't be happy in that case, but I know a lot of other people would.
I think they're just doing their due diligence here. It sounds like Gordon is in play starting at Utah's #5 so his agent may be doing some gamesmanship limiting his workouts lower in the draft. At least if we got him in for an informal meeting you can get a better idea of some of the behind the scenes aspects of who he is that you don't see on game tape. And if you think you might want to draft a PG, getting Smart, Ennis, and Payton in together to see how they match up was a great idea. Seems something didn't work out with Ennis being pushed to a later workout, but we've both been saying Payton is a safer PG pick than Smart so it's a good sign that he looked good against him. These guys did play on the same team last summer (and Payton got the starting PG job there) so they should be very familiar with each other by now. Then again, maybe LA schedules the same workout we did and they like Payton more than Smart too. There's certainly a scenario where Gordon and Payton go in the 5-7 range and we get either Randle or Vonleh. I wouldn't be happy in that case, but I know a lot of other people would.
