Wherefore Art Thou KT?

Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Well aware am I of the KT apologists/bashers debate on this board. As per usual, I am not terribly interested in such things squashing legitimate topics of conversation. Here is one such:

Kenny Thomas, 2005-06 as starter:
55gms 33.2min 10.7pts (52.3 FG% 65.8 FT%) 9.4reb 2.4ast 1.2stl 0.6blk 2.0TO

Kenny Thomas, 2006-07 as starter:
10gms 30.0min 4.8pts (44.9 FG% 50.0 FT%) 7.4reb 1.9ast 0.8stl 0.4blk 2.3TO


So...what is going on? Kenny "won" the starting job in camp, but looked kind of uninspired doing so. He's gotten his starts. Gotten pretty normal minutes for him (29.7 min/gm over his career). And yet...even by KTs modest standards, he's off to a bad start. What is up?

Some notes/thoughts:
1) Muss has gone out of his way to make friends and blow smoke up Kenny's behind about what a great and willing defender he is. Apparently that has not born fruit on court for whatever reason.
2) If starts and minutes were the concern, Kenny has gotten them for the most part. But he has rarely played with enthusiasm. Muss has shown a quick and erratic hook at times, could Kenny be disgruntled by it?
3) Could getting enough shots be an additional part to the KT puzzle? He is completely out of the offense as its currently run -- a true roleplayer. Is that dragging down his overall performances?
4) Is he hurt? Not so far as I know (other than the lip owie) but...
5) Is he a slow starter every year? I do not know the answer. Looked bad last year too to start the year, but much of it was blamed on his reserve role.

In any case, before the season began I was of the opinion that KT should start over SAR because he provided rebounding and a complimentary offensive game that would not interfere with Mike/Kevin/Ron and Brad. But I was referencing a 10 and 9 low level starter named KT capable of occassionally making a difference. What's up wiht the poor start here?
 
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Well, I thought the whole consensus is that he played good defense. I guess not.

And he did all the little things.

But alot of PF have destroyed us completely so far.
 
Well, he does play good defense, if he's guarding another undersized player like himself. He does rebound, when he feels like putting in the effort. The question is...where is the effort?
 
6th said:
Well, he does play good defense, if he's guarding another undersized player like himself. He does rebound, when he feels like putting in the effort. The question is...where is the effort?
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Well, hes really one of a kind, another undersized PF like himself? Who is almost the same 6-7 Kenny is? Elton Brand? Boozer? Chris Bosh? Jamison? Randolph? Wilcox? All taller then him.

It seems he won't be able to guard those guys. Hopefully he proves me wrong. I'm still waiting.

Oh yeah, Kenny will be guarding Wilcox tommarow, we'll see how that goes hopefully
 
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Larry89 said:
Well, hes really one of a kind, another undersized PF like himself? Who is almost the same 6-7 Kenny is? Elton Brand? Boozer? Chris Bosh? Jamison? Randolph? Wilcox? All taller then him.

It seems he won't be able to guard those guys. Hopefully he proves me wrong. I'm still waiting.

Oh yeah, Kenny will be guarding Wilcox tommarow, we'll see how that goes hopefully
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My point was, he is not a PF, whether he likes it or not.
 
6th said:
My point was, he is not a PF, whether he likes it or not.
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Well, we don't know what he is, but we do know hes on the virge of practically useless right now.

He isn't a PF but he plays the position, but he doesn't play like one, but his position is PF. :confused:
 
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on Boozer and Jamison, who may or may not be 6'10" like those other guys, but Brand is 6'8". If Thomas can't make up that difference...
 
The query not being so much why Kenny can't guard true bigs, but why has his game declined this year from where it was only 6 months ago. Facing the same guys he's always faced.
 
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Bricklayer said:
The query not being so much why Kenny can't guard true bigs, but why has his game declined this year when it was pretty marginal to start with. Facing the same guys he's always faced.
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I think it's cuz Artest & Reef have improved their rebounding and KT is only known for his rebounding
 
Lamar_Odom said:
KT who?
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Kenneth (Kenny) Cornelius Thomas (born July 25, 1977 in Atlanta, Georgia) is an American professional basketball player. He currently plays power forward for the Sacramento Kings of the National Basketball Association.
He attended high school in El Paso, Texas, before moving to Albuquerque, New Mexico to play for Albuquerque High School during his senior season.
Thomas attended the University of New Mexico in Albuquerque, one of the highest-profile recruits to ever attend the school. He is second on the Lobos' all-time scoring list (1,931 points), career blocks list (239), and career dunks list (114), and leads the school's lists in career rebounds (1,032), freshman scoring (484) and rebounding (256), and personal fouls for a season (118) and career (383). Thomas is one of five Lobos to be selected as an All-American (1998).
The Houston Rockets selected Thomas as the 22nd pick in the 1999 NBA Draft. He led his team in rebounds for the 1999-2000 season, making him one of only two rookies to do so. Thomas was consistently among the team leaders in rebounds and blocked shots before being traded to the Philadelphia 76ers during the 2002-03 season.
On February 23, 2005 Thomas was traded to the Sacramento Kings in a deal that sent Chris Webber to Philadelphia.
Thomas was one of only eleven players to average a double-double for the 2003-04 season, and the shortest one at 6-foot, 7-inches.
 
Well - here I am. One of the few K9 apologists and perhaps the original. Here are my thoughts; take them for you want (and I am pretty sure I know how most will take them).

1) The stats comparison starting this thread in not very useful IMHO. It appears that K9 has been asked to fill a very different role this year. He does not even look for shots this year. This will bring down points per game and could also very well impact percentage. Looking at offensive output is not woth the time. I think that most people here are happy to see him shoot less.

2) Much of what K9 does this year does not show in the box score. He keeps alot of balls alive on rebounds and loose balls. I do not think that people on this board really even notice this. He did a lot of this against the Jazz in the first half, but judging by the grade he got, Brick did not notice.

3) He is a good defensive player, but is, at times, asked to complete very difficult missions and looks bad in the process. Few poeple in the league can guard Duncan and at 6'7", K9 has a very diffcult job. You can be critical of him for this, but he may be best guy on th team to guard guys like duncan. This is a team deficit more than a K9 issue.

4) The effort comments about K9 are some of the lamest comments on the board. He hustles more than most guys on the team. Maybe only Artest hustles more. About a week ago, Jon Barry called K9 "the ultimate hustle guy." JB knows what he is talking about.

In sum, while K9 is not the all-star PF that we all wish we had, I think that most people do not understand and appreciate what he does offer the Kings.
 
Larry89 said:
Well, hes really one of a kind, another undersized PF like himself? Who is almost the same 6-7 Kenny is? Elton Brand? Boozer? Chris Bosh? Jamison? Randolph? Wilcox? All taller then him.

It seems he won't be able to guard those guys. Hopefully he proves me wrong. I'm still waiting.

Oh yeah, Kenny will be guarding Wilcox tommarow, we'll see how that goes hopefully
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K9s only saving grace is he has a quick 1st step and is athletic and pretty strong for his size, but he gives up so much height, especially in the West, we are always at a disadvantage and teams are exploiting this. Also SAR is our starting 5 with Brad out who plays smaller than 7' and that is it, no other players taller or the same after that except for Taylor or Pot who both are on the you are guys are just going to get paid to sit this year out plan. Big waste, I know Taylor or Pot aren't all that good, but they have the size and are NBA vets and should be used if only for their presence and 6 fouls. They could be our enforcers and the opponents driving in to the hoop a closeup of the floor! :p
 
Larry89 said:
Well, we don't know what he is, but we do know hes on the virge of practically useless right now.

He isn't a PF but he plays the position, but he doesn't play like one, but his position is PF. :confused:
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Exactly, he should be a SF, but he doesn't shoot that good, so I really don't know. At any rate he should be coming in off the bench, if he comes in at all for any team in the NBA, let alone a starter in the hard Pacific Division in the West. He did shoot decently throughout his career, I really think he needs to get the green light to shoot a little more, I think eventhough we are starting him and giving him his minutes, the lack of him being an option on the offensive end is messing him out and he is disinterested. He is making Millions not showing up and has a long contract and NBA contracts are guaranteed so he knows he is set. In the meantime he is a King and we are starting him so I think he needs to get the green light to shoot a little more, it looks like he has worked out the bugs in his free throw shooting, eventhough he doesn't have a pretty shot, it was falling against the Jazz. He doesn't need to score more than 10-12 points, SAR is the better shooter, but K9 can average almost a double double night to night or with some frequency. We know he can rebound even with his small stature due to his athletism (quickness, leaping ability, desire).
 
I appreciate the positive points Kupman makes concerning KT and I dont disagree that he does things for the team which dont always show up in the box score. However, my concern is that his contribution just isnt enough to justify his position on the team.

We got him because he came as part of a package - we didnt go out and try to get him, and at the time I believe the concern from the Kings perspective was more about offloading Webber. (we've covered the thinking behind that trade a million times, so lets not revisit that here)

So KT cant get the job done for our team, but just like Hart, noone else wants him either - so we are stuck with him for better or worse in the near term. Hopefully there will be nights when he has a greater (positive) effect than those games when he is given his 'difficult missions'. However Im not really expecting too much on that front.
 
Londonking said:
I appreciate the positive points Kupman makes concerning KT and I dont disagree that he does things for the team which dont always show up in the box score. However, my concern is that his contribution just isnt enough to justify his position on the team.

We got him because he came as part of a package - we didnt go out and try to get him, and at the time I believe the concern from the Kings perspective was more about offloading Webber. (we've covered the thinking behind that trade a million times, so lets not revisit that here)

So KT cant get the job done for our team, but just like Hart, noone else wants him either - so we are stuck with him for better or worse in the near term. Hopefully there will be nights when he has a greater (positive) effect than those games when he is given his 'difficult missions'. However Im not really expecting too much on that front.
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I do not think that K9 is untradeable. I believe that there are those in the league that could benefit from what he has to offer.

However, for sake of argument I would say that even if we could not trade him he would be more valuable to us if we got a true big. For example, if we traded Miller and Garcia away for a true big that is better suited to defend the likes of Duncan, I think that K9 would look better.

The lack of a true big creates most of our problems as a team IMHO. We have one of the best backcourts in the league and a really good 3 man. Our 4 spot guys are very serviceable, but without the big we get exposed easily. However, as has been beat to death on this board - finding that big is very difficult.
 
KT with a double double!!!

I hope he keeps it up....It gives me and the 2 or 3 other KT apologists in the Kings nation something to gloat about :p
 
gunks said:
KT with a double double!!!

I hope he keeps it up....It gives me and the 2 or 3 other KT apologists in the Kings nation something to gloat about :p
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I love seeing Kenny do good.

I just really hope he keeps it up consistantly...Even if he just does it against the weaker/lesser-great (Non Garnett/Duncan/Boozer) PF's of the league I will be happy.
 
Troy said:
K9s only saving grace is he has a quick 1st step and is athletic and pretty strong for his size, but he gives up so much height, especially in the West, we are always at a disadvantage and teams are exploiting this. Also SAR is our starting 5 with Brad out who plays smaller than 7' and that is it, no other players taller or the same after that except for Taylor or Pot who both are on the you are guys are just going to get paid to sit this year out plan. Big waste, I know Taylor or Pot aren't all that good, but they have the size and are NBA vets and should be used if only for their presence and 6 fouls. They could be our enforcers and the opponents driving in to the hoop a closeup of the floor! :p
Click to expand...

Interesting points. I think the main reason we don't do that is because they would mess up our offensive flow. And basketball is all about flow.
 
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