where would you rank tyreke
- Thread starter tyrant
- Start date
okay...
Won 4 Catalan Championships: (2005, 2007, 2008, 2009)
Won the FIBA EuroCup Championship: (2006)
Led the Spanish ACB League in steals: (2007, 2009)
Won the Spanish ACB League Rising Star Award: (2007)
2× FIBA European Young Player of the Year: (2007, 2008)
Won the Spanish King's Cup: (2008)
Won the ULEB Cup Championship: (2008)
All-Spanish ACB League Team: (2008)
Voted the Spanish ACB League's Best Point Guard: (2008)
Mr. Europa European Player of the Year: (2008)
Spanish ACB League Defensive Player of the Year: (2009)
Catalan League MVP: (2009)
FIBA Europe Under-16 Championship: Bronze Medal (2005)
FIBA Europe Under-16 Championship: Gold Medal (2006)
FIBA Europe Under-16 Championship: MVP (2006)
2008 Olympics Basketball Tournament: Silver Medal
2009 FIBA European Championship: Gold Medal
not too shabby for a 19 year old guy that hasnt played a nba game...
Won 4 Catalan Championships: (2005, 2007, 2008, 2009)
Won the FIBA EuroCup Championship: (2006)
Led the Spanish ACB League in steals: (2007, 2009)
Won the Spanish ACB League Rising Star Award: (2007)
2× FIBA European Young Player of the Year: (2007, 2008)
Won the Spanish King's Cup: (2008)
Won the ULEB Cup Championship: (2008)
All-Spanish ACB League Team: (2008)
Voted the Spanish ACB League's Best Point Guard: (2008)
Mr. Europa European Player of the Year: (2008)
Spanish ACB League Defensive Player of the Year: (2009)
Catalan League MVP: (2009)
FIBA Europe Under-16 Championship: Bronze Medal (2005)
FIBA Europe Under-16 Championship: Gold Medal (2006)
FIBA Europe Under-16 Championship: MVP (2006)
2008 Olympics Basketball Tournament: Silver Medal
2009 FIBA European Championship: Gold Medal
not too shabby for a 19 year old guy that hasnt played a nba game...
But setting that aside, your assertion that Rubio is somehow more accomplished than Evans is irrelevant. Rubio may have won more awards, but none of his accolades that you point out are relevant to the discussion at hand - performance in the NBA. Evans has played in the NBA and we can analyze his stats and make comparisons to other players; Rubio has not and does not belong in this discussion.
And none of those awards you mentioned are ones that Evans could have won - I see FIBA European mvps (Tyreke is not a Euro), professional leagues (no American is going to go overseas and start playing bball before the age of 17 like Rubio did), an Olympic medal (the Spanish team is good no doubt, but making the U.S. team is impossible at Evans' age and probably 10 times harder than making the Spanish team at any age). So sure Rubio may have some awards under his belt but they say nothing about Evans, which is the whole point of the thread.
I don't get Aries obsession with Rubio, specially since a month ago. I don't think Rubio will be better than Evans, as far as I've seen both probably more than anyone here. But that doesn't mean Rubio won't be a very good player. I think Rubio is better than Jennings, and will be a very, very solid starting PG in NBA. Rubio is a pure PG, is a completely different player than Tyreke, he probably won't score as much as Evans, but he'll make a lot more assists. But he won't be as good as Tyreke, because Evans is a beast, right now it seems he will be a perennal All-Star and a league top 5 in a few years.
But just a few things:
1. Compare NBA with FIBA statistics has no sense at all, not because that "higher competition" thing that people usually repeats, but because the game is so different. FIBA basketball has no 3sec rule in D, it's muuuch harder to score because overall team D is much more effective, so compare PPG numbers has no sense. Assists in FIBA only counts if is pass-to-shot or pass-to-dunk, if the player who receives the ball dribbles, there's no assist, so comparing APG numbers doesn't have sense neither. If you see Jennings stats in his italian team, he also sucks. A lot more than Rubio.
2. Rubio isn't playing in NBA because he had a very expensive buyout that Minnesota couldn't pay, not because he didn't want to.
That said, I still don't see the point in NBA starsystem and seeing numbers isolated as far as this is a sport team, even they're incredible stats, they show nothing. Jordan didn't win anything until Pippen arrived, Kobe hasn't win anything without Shaq or Gasol, and other incredible players like LeBron, Wade or Brandon Roy hadn't win anything never.
I don't like people tending to play for his stats, or team offense schemes for highlight the franchise player. They're dangerous: If Evans ends up being only as good as Brandon Roy, Kings won't win anything.
But just a few things:
1. Compare NBA with FIBA statistics has no sense at all, not because that "higher competition" thing that people usually repeats, but because the game is so different. FIBA basketball has no 3sec rule in D, it's muuuch harder to score because overall team D is much more effective, so compare PPG numbers has no sense. Assists in FIBA only counts if is pass-to-shot or pass-to-dunk, if the player who receives the ball dribbles, there's no assist, so comparing APG numbers doesn't have sense neither. If you see Jennings stats in his italian team, he also sucks. A lot more than Rubio.
2. Rubio isn't playing in NBA because he had a very expensive buyout that Minnesota couldn't pay, not because he didn't want to.
That said, I still don't see the point in NBA starsystem and seeing numbers isolated as far as this is a sport team, even they're incredible stats, they show nothing. Jordan didn't win anything until Pippen arrived, Kobe hasn't win anything without Shaq or Gasol, and other incredible players like LeBron, Wade or Brandon Roy hadn't win anything never.
I don't like people tending to play for his stats, or team offense schemes for highlight the franchise player. They're dangerous: If Evans ends up being only as good as Brandon Roy, Kings won't win anything.
Hey, their excited again. Cut them some slack. Reality, what ever it turns out to be will return.. Having read only a few of the posts I really don't know whats been said. But personally I can't really rank or rate anyone until they've been in the league for five or six years. 25 or 26 games does not a career make. Doesn't mean I'm not excited about the possibilities, but the kid is just starting. Its a good start. Actually its a great start. But he has to sustain it. Thats what really seperates the good from the great. So far, so good..
I don't believe that were in disagreement on what he's accomplished so far. I'm just saying that its a wee bit early to inshrine him into the HOF. Just trying to keep things grounded. I'm the one that said a month and half before the draft that we should draft him instead of Rubio because I thought he would be a star. So your preaching to the choir..
I have liked the Tyreke pick from the start - nobody can point to one post where I have dissed this pick or Tyreke. Pre-draft like most poeple I was hoping for Rubio but I have never mourned the fact that we passed on Rubio for a minute.
I just think "good as Wade" has a bit of a too good to be true feel about it so maybe I'm in too much of a pinch me mode. Nobody credible was calling him that pre-draft.
He does seem to be off to an extraordinary start and I'm not a skeptic... just cautious about having my heart broken.
I can say this... if I could have a 20-20 hindsight draft do-over... I take Tyreke.
Also I wonder from the hoops gurus here (I have never claimed to be one)... what were all the pundits missing? Why wasn't Tyreke a clear no brainer consensus 1 or 2 guy can't miss Wade/Lebron hybrid all along?
I'm so glad we got him!
I just think "good as Wade" has a bit of a too good to be true feel about it so maybe I'm in too much of a pinch me mode. Nobody credible was calling him that pre-draft.
He does seem to be off to an extraordinary start and I'm not a skeptic... just cautious about having my heart broken.
I can say this... if I could have a 20-20 hindsight draft do-over... I take Tyreke.
Also I wonder from the hoops gurus here (I have never claimed to be one)... what were all the pundits missing? Why wasn't Tyreke a clear no brainer consensus 1 or 2 guy can't miss Wade/Lebron hybrid all along?
I'm so glad we got him!
Well I'm not sure how many so called pundits actually go and see these guys play. There were quite a few people on this fourm that really liked Evans. The only disagreement between us was whether he was a point guard or not. Personally I didn't care. I just saw someone that had that IT factor, and thats all I cared about.
I would like to clear up what I think about Rubio. I've stated many times that I can't have an opinion until I see someone play. By that, I mean play several times, as in a minumum of at least 5 times. I prefer more, but sometimes thats just not possible. It is almost impossible to make any kind of judgement on a player by watching them in just one or two games. Those games could be the best of their career, or the worse of their career.
I've saw Rubio play in two games prior to the draft. both in the olympics. And yes, he did hold his own against Paul and company. But J. Will made Gary Payton look bad in their first meeting too. Its meaningless in the grand scheme of things. Will Rubio be decent, good, or great player in the NBA? I have no opinion on that. He plays in a different league with different rules, and the NBA is littered with players that were great in europe and just so so, to terrible in the NBA. I had no opinion on Jennings for the same reason. I saw Jennings play in one game on NBA TV, and frankly, he didn't look all that good. My point being that its hard to get a good read on european players.
I would like to clear up what I think about Rubio. I've stated many times that I can't have an opinion until I see someone play. By that, I mean play several times, as in a minumum of at least 5 times. I prefer more, but sometimes thats just not possible. It is almost impossible to make any kind of judgement on a player by watching them in just one or two games. Those games could be the best of their career, or the worse of their career.
I've saw Rubio play in two games prior to the draft. both in the olympics. And yes, he did hold his own against Paul and company. But J. Will made Gary Payton look bad in their first meeting too. Its meaningless in the grand scheme of things. Will Rubio be decent, good, or great player in the NBA? I have no opinion on that. He plays in a different league with different rules, and the NBA is littered with players that were great in europe and just so so, to terrible in the NBA. I had no opinion on Jennings for the same reason. I saw Jennings play in one game on NBA TV, and frankly, he didn't look all that good. My point being that its hard to get a good read on european players.
You're right that it's a different game and it's hard to make comparisons, but just to set the record straight, it goes both ways. Some players were good in the NBA and not so much in Europe. Josh Childress, for example, had a rather mediocre season with Olypiacos last year, although this year he's improving. Still, he's not nearly justifying being the highest paid player in the history of European basketball. Omri wasn't nearly as good playing for Maccabi as he is this season with the Kings. Jennaro Pargo was a collosal failure in Europe. So was Carlos Arroyo when he came to Maccabi last year. Tom Chambers thought he would come to Europe and "teach the natives" how to play basketball and ended up being one of the biggest flops in Maccabi. Will Bynum struggled in Maccabi and is now easily Detroit's best player when he's not injured.
These are just a few examples out of many. Americans tend to look down on European basketball, and there is some truth to that in the sense that there are no players like Lebron and Kobe who are completely unstoppable, but the game is different and much more team oriented both offensively and defensively, making it harder for individual "star type" players to succeed there. I'm sure players like Kobe and Lebron would do well in Europe because of their talent, but I doubt they would do AS well there as they do in the NBA.
But back to the point, I think it's quite possible that Rubio will become a major force in the NBA when he does come here. I really don't see the point in trying to compare him to Tyreke and trying to make him look bad in order to make Tyreke look good. Tyreke is an excellent player, and so is Rubio. I personally can't wait for Rubio to come to the NBA to see those two face off. It's going to be exciting.
These are just a few examples out of many. Americans tend to look down on European basketball, and there is some truth to that in the sense that there are no players like Lebron and Kobe who are completely unstoppable, but the game is different and much more team oriented both offensively and defensively, making it harder for individual "star type" players to succeed there. I'm sure players like Kobe and Lebron would do well in Europe because of their talent, but I doubt they would do AS well there as they do in the NBA.
But back to the point, I think it's quite possible that Rubio will become a major force in the NBA when he does come here. I really don't see the point in trying to compare him to Tyreke and trying to make him look bad in order to make Tyreke look good. Tyreke is an excellent player, and so is Rubio. I personally can't wait for Rubio to come to the NBA to see those two face off. It's going to be exciting.
I assume that your not talking about me when refering to comparing Tyreke and Rubio, because I haven't. I certainly can't compare a player on which I have no opinion to one that I do. Not fair to the player with no opinion. I also wasn't intending to denigrate the european league. I'm just stating that its different. And you right, many american players haven't had a very good go of it over there. So it works both ways. There are some things I don't like about european basketball, but thats just personal preference.
My educated guess on Rubio is that he'll be fine on the offensive end. I think he'll have some adjusting to do on the defensive end. He gambles a lot in the passing lanes. In europe where they pack the post with players until they grow roots there, he can get away with it if he's unsucessful. Not so in the NBA. Not a major thing, but he'll have to adjust his game. Just how sucessful he'll be, I have no idea. I wish him the best. The more good players in the NBA, the better it is.
My educated guess on Rubio is that he'll be fine on the offensive end. I think he'll have some adjusting to do on the defensive end. He gambles a lot in the passing lanes. In europe where they pack the post with players until they grow roots there, he can get away with it if he's unsucessful. Not so in the NBA. Not a major thing, but he'll have to adjust his game. Just how sucessful he'll be, I have no idea. I wish him the best. The more good players in the NBA, the better it is.