the "pissed off" part of your post i can live with. the ludicrousness, however, i cannot. i'm going to flat out call bull**** on this statement. why people insist on making excuses for peja stojakovic is beyond me. nobody ever made excuses for webb, even when he rose up to the occasion last season after returning from injury. but people have always made exuses for peja. i dont get it. i dont want to see peja fail, because then the team fails, but i think people are going to see peja for what he is this season, because its peja's chance to be "the man," and in all likelihood, he won't rise to the occasion. he's not that fierce of a competitor. he's the kinda guy who doesn't think a team needs leaders. he's mr. charmin ultrasoft. oh no. he hurt his knee in greece. chris webber came back from a knee injury that was potentially career ending, and he came to win. don't tell me about it being a wonder that peja can jump at all.
Where does Peja rank amongst fellow foreign NBA players?
- Thread starter Nikos
- Start date
I agree with what you're saying for the most part, but I kind of see Peja as a victim of some extremely high and perhaps unrealistic expectations.
Let's say you expect a guy to score 35 points, and he comes in with 20. It's an off night. People are disappointed in him. Expect a guy to score 10 and he scores 20, you're excited. He overachieved. In the end, both players are scoring 20. It's an equal performance. So why does one inspire disappointment when the other inspires excitement?
If you look at Peja, he's not that much of an athlete. He's not quick. He's not a leaper. Sure, he's capable of more, perhaps he could play a little bit better defense, perhaps he could go for that loose ball, grab that rebound or, for the love of god, make that layup. But I don't agree with you that Peja is capable of "much, much more." There haven't been many players in the NBA with Peja's level of athletic ability who have performed at his level. So I don't share your level of disappointment in him. Truthfully I'm pretty amazed that he's as good as he is.
The fact of the matter is that Peja is a consistent 20 ppg shooter, he's not as bad in the playoffs as people say he is, he was spectacular in 2003-2004. I'm not sure why he's currently inspiring so much antipathy. As long as he bounces back this year and plays like he did in 2003-2004 everything will be gravy.
Let's say you expect a guy to score 35 points, and he comes in with 20. It's an off night. People are disappointed in him. Expect a guy to score 10 and he scores 20, you're excited. He overachieved. In the end, both players are scoring 20. It's an equal performance. So why does one inspire disappointment when the other inspires excitement?
If you look at Peja, he's not that much of an athlete. He's not quick. He's not a leaper. Sure, he's capable of more, perhaps he could play a little bit better defense, perhaps he could go for that loose ball, grab that rebound or, for the love of god, make that layup. But I don't agree with you that Peja is capable of "much, much more." There haven't been many players in the NBA with Peja's level of athletic ability who have performed at his level. So I don't share your level of disappointment in him. Truthfully I'm pretty amazed that he's as good as he is.
The fact of the matter is that Peja is a consistent 20 ppg shooter, he's not as bad in the playoffs as people say he is, he was spectacular in 2003-2004. I'm not sure why he's currently inspiring so much antipathy. As long as he bounces back this year and plays like he did in 2003-2004 everything will be gravy.
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In my opinion Webber was also a much bigger talent than Peja ever was. Peja is one of the rare underpaid players in this league, and has done more for the Kings than so most others that make a bunch more money than he does. Not trying to look for excuses at all, just can't listen to Peja haters every day. Is there any other player in the NBA that has been hated by his own fans more than Peja, other than Webb? and why is it that all them gather here on kingsfans.com, and rarely on any other kings site? Why can't you just accept the man and cheer for him and the KINGS (he is part of the Kings remember). Why don't you write a letter to Petry and Maloofs telling 'em that you know better.
I beleive Manu got a bit banged up during Game 3, and didn't really look the same since. But even so, the statement is not really true. Manu in the past has always been the type to make hustle plays, get rebounds, and assists when his shot is off. Parker is the one who, when NOT HOT pretty much doesn't contribute. Manu for years has been the guy who contributes with an all around effort -- it wasn't until this playoffs that he gave both 20ppg on 50% shooting, while getting to the line on over half of his FGA AND making hustle plays.
When the Spurs are getting blown out (like in Game 3/4 of the finals) usually Manu doesn't even play more than 25 minutes -- hence the reason his stats were poor during his bad games. He never really gets meaningless minutes, or is on the floor when the game is somewhat decided.
When the Spurs are getting blown out (like in Game 3/4 of the finals) usually Manu doesn't even play more than 25 minutes -- hence the reason his stats were poor during his bad games. He never really gets meaningless minutes, or is on the floor when the game is somewhat decided.
obviously being the best international player in the league is not a big deal. dirk and peja are about equal. i think they are the 2 best international players in the league right now. ginobili deserves to be number 1 after the way he played in the finals. no matter what he kept attacking.
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Oh please... the notion that we must "hate" Peja because we dare to criticize him is ridiculous.
This board has some very articulate posters who have - for several years - voiced their opinions about every player on the team. I can safely say that NO player has been above criticism.
We do not hate Peja. Accept the man and cheer for him and the KINGS? EXCUSE ME? Your comments are laughable...and very transparent.
If you disagree with a specific comment, then discuss it. But do not make blanket attacks against us and our board. If you don't like it here, there are a lot of other Kings boards around.
This board has some very articulate posters who have - for several years - voiced their opinions about every player on the team. I can safely say that NO player has been above criticism.
We do not hate Peja. Accept the man and cheer for him and the KINGS? EXCUSE ME? Your comments are laughable...and very transparent.
If you disagree with a specific comment, then discuss it. But do not make blanket attacks against us and our board. If you don't like it here, there are a lot of other Kings boards around.
I don't disagree at all... he has been the victim of high expectations, but it was due in at least some part to the rabid devotion of some Peja followers who proclaimed him to be the best player on the planet, etc.
We have spent more time trying to figure out what makes Peja tick than virtually anything else. If we had never seen the flashes of what he actually might be, then perhaps we wouldn't have expected it. But those tantalizing glimpses were there, for all of us to see, just enough to make us hope for the most.
On one hand, some people shout that Peja is the man, that he should receive a maximum salary, etc. and then, sometimes in the same thread, go on to say that we are expecting too much.
It's a paradox; and it's one that most likely will stick with us - and him - as long as he's a King.
I think what's important is that we - as Kings fans - can discuss it rationally. It's what message boards are all about and some of the exchanges with the more rabid Peja fans have been very interesting, to say the least.
Bottom line? As long as he wears the uniform of the team I love, he'll get my cheers and support just like any other player. But he'll also get the criticism. He's a big boy. I think he can take it. And it's not like he's not being nicely paid in return. I think he can survive some words written on a message board on the Internet.
GO KINGS!!!!
We have spent more time trying to figure out what makes Peja tick than virtually anything else. If we had never seen the flashes of what he actually might be, then perhaps we wouldn't have expected it. But those tantalizing glimpses were there, for all of us to see, just enough to make us hope for the most.
On one hand, some people shout that Peja is the man, that he should receive a maximum salary, etc. and then, sometimes in the same thread, go on to say that we are expecting too much.
It's a paradox; and it's one that most likely will stick with us - and him - as long as he's a King.
I think what's important is that we - as Kings fans - can discuss it rationally. It's what message boards are all about and some of the exchanges with the more rabid Peja fans have been very interesting, to say the least.
Bottom line? As long as he wears the uniform of the team I love, he'll get my cheers and support just like any other player. But he'll also get the criticism. He's a big boy. I think he can take it. And it's not like he's not being nicely paid in return. I think he can survive some words written on a message board on the Internet.
GO KINGS!!!!
Wasn't I trying to discuss it in the post above, but all I get is response like yours: "Your comments are laughable...and very transparent."
In order to discuss something around here, you'd pretty much have to agree with you and the other moderators?
"This board has some very articulate posters who have - for several years - voiced their opinions about "EVERY" player on the team. "
THAT IS LAUGHABLE AND VERY "TRANSPARENT"
My guess is, I will be kicked of the forum, for not agreeing with you, your highness?
In order to discuss something around here, you'd pretty much have to agree with you and the other moderators?
"This board has some very articulate posters who have - for several years - voiced their opinions about "EVERY" player on the team. "
THAT IS LAUGHABLE AND VERY "TRANSPARENT"
My guess is, I will be kicked of the forum, for not agreeing with you, your highness?
Your comments are laughable and transparent because - just like the last two times you were on this forum - you don't want anyone to say anything critical about Peja. When they do, you accuse them of being "haters."
I don't care if you agree with me personally or not. If I did, there would be very few members on the forum. Discussing, debating, and even respectful arguing are what this board is all about and why it's the most popular Kings forum on the Internet.
If you want to discuss my personal philosophies, etc. then send me a PM.
I don't care if you agree with me personally or not. If I did, there would be very few members on the forum. Discussing, debating, and even respectful arguing are what this board is all about and why it's the most popular Kings forum on the Internet.
If you want to discuss my personal philosophies, etc. then send me a PM.
I agree and I think a big part of the problem is that some people read a couple of posts and assume that Peja is disliked because he's being criticized. Most of us don't dislike him at all. We may not have been thrilled with some of his statements in the past and we may have been disappointed by what we felt was his failure to live up to expectations ON THE COURT, but that doesn't mean we dislike him.
When the "hate/hater" stuff gets bandied about, people get defensive and things get off-track.
When the "hate/hater" stuff gets bandied about, people get defensive and things get off-track.
T
In a nutshell, Peja is a smooth shooter who will give 20 ppg and sometimes a little more. If he can do that every night and grab a couple of boards, fine with me. He has never been a clutch guy and probably never will, which again, is fine with me. He is on this team for his long range ability and no more than that. Not many people shoot as well as him, and for that reason, he is fine with me.
I only have two issues with this post:
1. I wouldn't have a problem with Stojakovic being as good as he is, if people would just accept that that's all he is; he's a good, perhaps even very good, secondary player. He's the kind of player that should be a team's #2 option, and I feel that he could prosper in that role. The problem is that there are a great deal of vocal Stojakovic fans who feel that he should be a #1 option, and command max salary. He's not a #1 player. VF hit it on the head when she said, "If people would quit trying to make him into something he isn't, perhaps we'd all be able to accept him for what he is... instead of always arguing about what he is not."
2. I've simply never bought into the hype about Stojakovic's performance in the 2003-04 season. I watched all eighty-two of those games, and I just didn't see this great player that some people were singing praises to. In my observation, he was like a taller version of Rock Richmond, only with a better supporting cast. Not a superstar.
1. I wouldn't have a problem with Stojakovic being as good as he is, if people would just accept that that's all he is; he's a good, perhaps even very good, secondary player. He's the kind of player that should be a team's #2 option, and I feel that he could prosper in that role. The problem is that there are a great deal of vocal Stojakovic fans who feel that he should be a #1 option, and command max salary. He's not a #1 player. VF hit it on the head when she said, "If people would quit trying to make him into something he isn't, perhaps we'd all be able to accept him for what he is... instead of always arguing about what he is not."
2. I've simply never bought into the hype about Stojakovic's performance in the 2003-04 season. I watched all eighty-two of those games, and I just didn't see this great player that some people were singing praises to. In my observation, he was like a taller version of Rock Richmond, only with a better supporting cast. Not a superstar.
Wow. We agree with each other. S£im, I thought I'd never see the day!!
1. I'm in the "Peja will get the max" camp simply because salary is determined by market, not merit. In a perfect world I'm in the S£im, VF21 "Enh, Peja probably doesn't deserve the max" camp. However, it's not a perfect world and Peja will get paid.
2. It all depends on the definition of "superstar." Was he Garnett or Duncan good? No. But he was at worst one of the top 10 players in the league. Obviously that's a subjective ranking, but still, pretty good.
1. I'm in the "Peja will get the max" camp simply because salary is determined by market, not merit. In a perfect world I'm in the S£im, VF21 "Enh, Peja probably doesn't deserve the max" camp. However, it's not a perfect world and Peja will get paid.
2. It all depends on the definition of "superstar." Was he Garnett or Duncan good? No. But he was at worst one of the top 10 players in the league. Obviously that's a subjective ranking, but still, pretty good.
tyrant said:
aside from everything else, i believe Peja has to improve his versatility. he's way too soft on the court. a deadly shooter, but he's not as agressive as manu gino....
at this point i would switch peja and manu straight up. maybe even through in a bench warmer
at this point i would switch peja and manu straight up. maybe even through in a bench warmer
Yes I aggree that he has not done nearly enough to justify some of the positions on this boards about how great he is. But I look at the other side of the extreme and I think some people tend to go the other extreme to make their point. IMHO I think both sides(the extremes I am talking about) go to far.
Why do you and VF21 insist on Pedja's supporters moderating their position before you will "be able to accept him for what he is..."?
It appears petty at best.
To look at some of the comments regarding Pedja, if I didn't know better I would be led to believe that:
1. He is not that good at the things that he is purpotedly good at.
2. He is very, very bad at the things that he is not goot at. The worst ever.
3. He will never amount to anything (Glenn Rice clause).
4. He is a Laker at heart.
Now, which one of the 4 statements would you agree with?
And BTW, I do not think that Pedja deserves Max contract but I believe that he will fetch max or near max money largely due to the market but also because his abilities are fairly uncommon in today's NBA.
It appears petty at best.
To look at some of the comments regarding Pedja, if I didn't know better I would be led to believe that:
1. He is not that good at the things that he is purpotedly good at.
2. He is very, very bad at the things that he is not goot at. The worst ever.
3. He will never amount to anything (Glenn Rice clause).
4. He is a Laker at heart.
Now, which one of the 4 statements would you agree with?
And BTW, I do not think that Pedja deserves Max contract but I believe that he will fetch max or near max money largely due to the market but also because his abilities are fairly uncommon in today's NBA.
What are you talking about?????????
What I was referring to are the blind Peja homers, the people who are so convinced Mr. Stojakovic can walk on water AND feed the multitude with one fish that they cannot accept or even comprehend anyone not wanting to fall and worship at his feet.
Some of them praise Peja so highly that NO ONE could possibly live up to the high expectations.
There is a major difference between those few and the majority of Peja supporters, who are at least willing to recognize that Peja, like everyone else not holding claim to the title "son of God" is not perfect, and does have weaknesses.
My comment wasn't that I won't accept him for what he is. My comment was:
I'll clarify:
If some members of this forum, most of them of Serbian background, would stop acting as though Peja was in actuality UBERPEJA, then some of us wouldn't swing to the other side of the pendulum so drastically.
Peja isn't a failure, certainly, but he also isn't/hasn't been the savior of the Kings. The truth is somewhere in the middle. He is good, very good. He is arguably - at least at times - the best pure shooter in the league today. BUT he is not perfect; he has failings; he is - like virtually every other player in the game - subject to criticism.
Give credit where it is due, certainly, but going too far in the praise/acclaim direction invariably leads to some of us wanting to balance it out.
That's what I meant. If that - an ultimate attempt to be fair - is petty, then so be it.
What I was referring to are the blind Peja homers, the people who are so convinced Mr. Stojakovic can walk on water AND feed the multitude with one fish that they cannot accept or even comprehend anyone not wanting to fall and worship at his feet.
Some of them praise Peja so highly that NO ONE could possibly live up to the high expectations.
There is a major difference between those few and the majority of Peja supporters, who are at least willing to recognize that Peja, like everyone else not holding claim to the title "son of God" is not perfect, and does have weaknesses.
My comment wasn't that I won't accept him for what he is. My comment was:
I'll clarify:
If some members of this forum, most of them of Serbian background, would stop acting as though Peja was in actuality UBERPEJA, then some of us wouldn't swing to the other side of the pendulum so drastically.
Peja isn't a failure, certainly, but he also isn't/hasn't been the savior of the Kings. The truth is somewhere in the middle. He is good, very good. He is arguably - at least at times - the best pure shooter in the league today. BUT he is not perfect; he has failings; he is - like virtually every other player in the game - subject to criticism.
Give credit where it is due, certainly, but going too far in the praise/acclaim direction invariably leads to some of us wanting to balance it out.
That's what I meant. If that - an ultimate attempt to be fair - is petty, then so be it.
You just said it yourself, you tend to swing "drastically" to the other side. How is that "an ultimate attempt to be fair"?
By the way, the debate about Pedja as genuine number 1 is over and Pedja/Pedja boosters lost. Did you see anyone listing him as the best foreign Player in this thread?
I am quite aware that most/all Pedja boosters are Serbian or Serbian-America/Canadian and some seem to worship him. You could argue that in a country (or coming from the country) that has until recently been a pariah state and where per capit a GDP is still 1/5 of what it weas before the war, with little or no prospect for things to get any better any time soon and where basketball is one of the few things in which we excell and are able to be competitive in, over-zealos "Pedja love" is a form of nationalism/patriotism.
On the other hand, NBA is so different from what we are used to in terms of basketball that sometimes we just don't get it. I will never understand why is A.I. "a great player". Never. In Europe, kids who play like him are usually out basketball before they are old enough to turn pro or get drafted.
By the way, the debate about Pedja as genuine number 1 is over and Pedja/Pedja boosters lost. Did you see anyone listing him as the best foreign Player in this thread?
I am quite aware that most/all Pedja boosters are Serbian or Serbian-America/Canadian and some seem to worship him. You could argue that in a country (or coming from the country) that has until recently been a pariah state and where per capit a GDP is still 1/5 of what it weas before the war, with little or no prospect for things to get any better any time soon and where basketball is one of the few things in which we excell and are able to be competitive in, over-zealos "Pedja love" is a form of nationalism/patriotism.
On the other hand, NBA is so different from what we are used to in terms of basketball that sometimes we just don't get it. I will never understand why is A.I. "a great player". Never. In Europe, kids who play like him are usually out basketball before they are old enough to turn pro or get drafted.