When should/could we extend Hawes contract?

[LPKingsFan]

This thread has already listed several examples of underpaid players.

And, you'll notice, neither Redd nor Allen has won by themselves, yet are paid max money. Sorry, that's overpaid.

Look at a team like the Spurs: They have their superstar, Duncan, who makes max money. And then they have their two best supporting stars, Ginobli and Parker, making proper supporting star salaries, $10 and $12 million, respectively. I think it's more important to look at impact on and value for the team, not position comparison. Thus, as a 2nd or third option supporting stars, which all of the players mentioned above except Duncan are, Allen and Redd are overpaid, Ginobili is underpaid, and Parker and Martin are about average.

Especially in a system where you have a capped salary and cannot spend as much as you want, production/salary ratio is very important, regardless of position.

 

[Bricklayer]

Ever heard the term "market value". History shows that comparable players have typically made much, much more money. If you're looking for anything other than an "overpaid" player in the NBA you'd have better luck finding bigfoot taking a dump in the woods. So, as a result, all you can do is compare an apple with the other apples. In doing so you can clearly see Kevin makes far less and therefor in comparison is what one could consider a steal contractually.

Player -- 09-10 salary
Igoudala -- $12.2mil
Hamilton -- $11.6mil
Ellis -- $11.0mil
J. Howard -- $10.9mil
Manu -- $10.7mil
Kevin -- $10.2mil
Granger -- $9.9mil
Butler -- $9.8mil


Are all of those guys underpaid too? This is the neighborhood, its a fairly established market for second tier guys. And I should note that most of the guys on that list have been All Stars, won titles, etc.

 

[SacTownKid]

This thread has already listed several examples of underpaid players.

And, you'll notice, neither Redd nor Allen has won by themselves, yet are paid max money. Sorry, that's overpaid.

Look at a team like the Spurs: They have their superstar, Duncan, who makes max money. And then they have their two best supporting stars, Ginobli and Parker, making proper supporting star salaries, $10 and $12 million, respectively. I think it's more important to look at impact on and value for the team, not position comparison. Thus, as a 2nd or third option supporting stars, which all of the players mentioned above except Duncan are, Allen and Redd are overpaid, Ginobili is underpaid, and Parker and Martin are about average.

Especially in a system where you have a capped salary and cannot spend as much as you want, production/salary ratio is very important, regardless of position.

If you balance it out money wise, Martin's contract is actually far closer to Ginobilis than it is Allens or Redds. Unless you believe that Ginobili is heads above Martin talent wise of course, because then it's a different debate all together. All you can do is take the average of all the comparable players or SG's in particular and see where Kevins lies contractually. Here are some players most expensive years.

Ray Allen - 18.7 million
Michael Redd - 18.3 million
Andre Iguodala - 15.5 million
Ben Gordon - 13.2 million
Joe Johnson - 14.9 million
Vince Carter - 18.9 million
Brandon Roy - 19.1 million
Monta Ellis - 11 million
Manu Ginobili - 10.5 million
Jason Richardson - 14.4 million

Those are some players of comparison, or at least the only examples of comparison we could realistically use most likely. There are some other "steals" in there, but Kevin still ranks near the bottom financially at about 12.4 million and I feel is more valuable, or at least as valuable as at least half the list.

 

[SacTownKid]

Player -- 09-10 salary
Igoudala -- $12.2mil
Hamilton -- $11.6mil
Ellis -- $11.0mil
J. Howard -- $10.9mil
Manu -- $10.7mil
Kevin -- $10.2mil
Granger -- $9.9mil
Butler -- $9.8mil


Are all of those guys underpaid too? This is the neighborhood, its a fairly established market for second tier guys. And I should note that most of the guys on that list have been All Stars, won titles, etc.

Check my list out. Those guys are underpaid, and I am interested to see what some of them get on the open market or otherwise considering a good number of them are towards the end of deals that they outperformed long ago.

As for your list, Granger actually makes more than Kevin, same with Iggy, and so does Rip per year (from shamsports):

Danny Granger $10,130,500 $11,173,202 $12,215,904 $13,258,606 $14,221,788
Kevin Martin $9,680,170 $10,600,005 $11,519,840 $12,439,675
Richard Hamilton $11,375,000 $12,500,000 $12,500,000 $12,500,000
Andre Iguodala $12,200,000 $12,345,250 $13,531,750 $14,718,250 $15,904,750

 

[Prince_XY]

If you balance it out money wise, Martin's contract is actually far closer to Ginobilis than it is Allens or Redds. Unless you believe that Ginobili is heads above Martin talent wise of course, because then it's a different debate all together. All you can do is take the average of all the comparable players or SG's in particular and see where Kevins lies contractually. Here are some players most expensive years.

Ray Allen - 18.7 million
Michael Redd - 18.3 million
Andre Iguodala - 15.5 million
Ben Gordon - 13.2 million
Joe Johnson - 14.9 million
Vince Carter - 18.9 million
Brandon Roy - 19.1 million
Monta Ellis - 11 million
Manu Ginobili - 10.5 million
Jason Richardson - 14.4 million

Those are some players of comparison, or at least the only examples of comparison we could realistically use most likely. There are some other "steals" in there, but Kevin still ranks near the bottom financially at about 12.4 million and I feel is more valuable, or at least as valuable as at least half the list.

I think Martin is not comparable with at least 80% of the players in this list. Martin is a very good scorer, but sorry to say that is just all you can say about Martin's game. Impact-wise and with regards to winning, I'll bet my money on most players in the list rather than on Martin. This is why a lot of people are saying Martin's numbers are deceiving and really don't add-up in terms of winning. Martin is just one big liability in defense which offset whatever big score he has in games. His effort in defense is more often times non-existent.

Do I think Martin is overpaid?

On a team without a scorer, Martin's pay is just about right.

 

[Oprostaj]

I think Martin is not comparable with at least 80% of the players in this list. Martin is a very good scorer, but sorry to say that is just all you can say about Martin's game. Impact-wise and with regards to winning, I'll bet my money on most players in the list rather than on Martin. This is why a lot of people are saying Martin's numbers are deceiving and really don't add-up in terms of winning. Martin is just one big liability in defense which offset whatever big score he has in games. His effort in defense is more often times non-existent.

Do I think Martin is overpaid?

On a team without a scorer, Martin's pay is just about right.

Pretty much sums up my thoughts.

 

[LPKingsFan]

I think Martin is not comparable with at least 80% of the players in this list. Martin is a very good scorer, but sorry to say that is just all you can say about Martin's game. Impact-wise and with regards to winning, I'll bet my money on most players in the list rather than on Martin. This is why a lot of people are saying Martin's numbers are deceiving and really don't add-up in terms of winning. Martin is just one big liability in defense which offset whatever big score he has in games. His effort in defense is more often times non-existent.

Do I think Martin is overpaid?

On a team without a scorer, Martin's pay is just about right.

Yeah, you can immediately scratch Roy, Joe Johnson, Carter and a couple others off that list. Those guys are franchise players (Carter perhaps not any more). Not comparable at all. Brick's list is much more applicable.

 

[SacTownKid]

Yeah, you can immediately scratch Roy, Joe Johnson, Carter and a couple others off that list. Those guys are franchise players (Carter perhaps not any more). Not comparable at all. Brick's list is much more applicable.

Joe Johnson is not a franchise player. And, they still make more than Martin and upon signing their next deals will make A LOT more in all likelihood.

You mention 3 of the very few questionables, but the rest are most certainly comparable except in the fact that none of them are legit top 7-8 scorers in the league. Kevin isn't a superstar by any means, but I am truly shocked at how much some underrate the things he not only does well, but does freakishly well.

 

[SacTownKid]

I think Martin is not comparable with at least 80% of the players in this list. Martin is a very good scorer, but sorry to say that is just all you can say about Martin's game. Impact-wise and with regards to winning, I'll bet my money on most players in the list rather than on Martin. This is why a lot of people are saying Martin's numbers are deceiving and really don't add-up in terms of winning. Martin is just one big liability in defense which offset whatever big score he has in games. His effort in defense is more often times non-existent.

Do I think Martin is overpaid?

On a team without a scorer, Martin's pay is just about right.

Easy thing to say, but show it. Which 8 out of the 10 I listed are not "comparable"???