GoGoGadget
All-Star
VF21 said:And, to make it more interesting, how about they come off the bench in ... well, Bricklayer said Chicago and I kinda like it.
Now that's just mean!!
I'd at least let them start in Chicago.
When Peja gets back
- Thread starter Entity
- Start date
Now that's just mean!!
I'd at least let them start in Chicago.
Bricklayer said:
Not to hi-jack this thread, but I think this proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that Adelman is NOT the real problem with the team. This team has lost three starters to injury and they are now playing the best ball yet this season. I know there are those who will bash Adelman no matter what, but I think this little run vindicates him.
love_them_kings
Starter
Sparky said:
I don't know. I've always liked Adelman, and I still do. But, reading that analysis (which I thought was pretty insightful) actually made me think that maybe RA isn't the best coach for this team right now. He definitely was the best coach for the "old" Kings, with our 5 obvious starters, and well defined roles for each. But, maybe we need a coach that is going to shake things up a little bit & mix up the team so that you have the right combo on the floor instead of picking 5 guys, saying these are my starters, and playing them 90% of every game.
love_them_kings said:
I can see your point. However, I can't think of ANY coach that could get much more out of the current roster than RA. Almost every thread ends up being a trade discussion going over many different ways the team could be improved by moving players. Our chances of improving in the coaching area are far fewer.
SacKings384
Starter
I saw Cisco shooting at the Clippers game. This guy is serioulsy going to be a stud when/if he gets some confidence. I got out to my seats an hour before the game, I got up only once. Cisco was out their practicing his threes. Alls he took were threes and I only saw him miss ONE out of maybe the 100 or so I saw him took. No joke, no lie. ONE
B
Bonzinator
Guest
peja will never change im not bashing him at all i like peja but in the second half when the team needs him the most he never helps. so maybe it is best that he gets traded so the team can become better. but im sick of people saying kenny should start over SAR. he scores inside almost whenever he wants and he has been our second best player besides bonzi. he has done a great job on duncan and garnett guarding them way better then kenny ever could because of the height advantage. and the last thing this team needs is a jumpshooter in the starting lineup. brad, bibby and peja are all the jumpshooters we need.
slugking50
All-Star
SacKings384 said:
I like the kid but on this board and another we've some members seeing the same thing from G-Wall hile he was here.
Well. They just were ll from 3.
BawLa
Starter
Peja, Peja, Peja
Sad to say it, but you're the odd man out. The only reason why we would want to keep Peja is for his 3 pointers. Its not his charisma, athletic ability, or his astounding ability to find new injuries. And we have recently been shown that we don't neccessarily need an extra deep threat. Bibby will do for now... until Francisco develops. And its amazing what a little energy can bring to the court. If he could only provide us with those few extra rebounds, steals, and blocks then I wouldn't be saying this right now: Time for Petrie's little favorite play toy to go bye-bye.
What will happen when Peja gets back? My guess is that he will start, and he will continue to plummet to mediocrity. And then we either trade him, or we plummet to mediocrity with him. I say we try to get something for him now.
Sad to say it, but you're the odd man out. The only reason why we would want to keep Peja is for his 3 pointers. Its not his charisma, athletic ability, or his astounding ability to find new injuries. And we have recently been shown that we don't neccessarily need an extra deep threat. Bibby will do for now... until Francisco develops. And its amazing what a little energy can bring to the court. If he could only provide us with those few extra rebounds, steals, and blocks then I wouldn't be saying this right now: Time for Petrie's little favorite play toy to go bye-bye.
What will happen when Peja gets back? My guess is that he will start, and he will continue to plummet to mediocrity. And then we either trade him, or we plummet to mediocrity with him. I say we try to get something for him now.
P
playmaker0017
Guest
Bricklayer said:
Strangely enough the two I saw were this:
7) Reef and Bonzi = play very well off each other and find each other very easily. I think this is because they are both used to more traditional sets.
8) Reef and KT = play pretty well off each other as well.
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playmaker0017
Guest
Sparky said:
I'm not so sure about that.
I said it before, near the beginning of the season, when you run for jump shots, you'll have some "really on" nights and some "really off" nights. We've had our share of both.
Boston is worse than we are - and their record is indicative of that fact.
What should scare us is that we allowed a team that hovers around 95PPG jacked up 112 points on 52% shooting. We had a plethora of turnovers but overcame them by Boston having a ton too.
We had an "on" offensive night ... and we had it against the Clips. But we got plowed defensively by a terrible team. That's not a good thing.
P
playmaker0017
Guest
BawLa said:
Just so we are on the same page - Sacramento has already "plummeted to mediocrity".
We've won two games against teams that aren't playing good basketball.
People will point out the Clippers are a good team. The Clips lost 3 of their last 4 ... and 6 of their last 8. They are falling fast.
Boston can't string 3 wins together to save their necks. They have lost 7 of their last 10.
We're not exactly playing inspired either. Our offense may be looking nice against teams that know about as much about defense as we do ... but we're allowing teams to shoot 52%. That's not going to get it done on most nights.
BigWaxer
Starter
^^ I can agree with that Playmaker and was about to say the samething.
I really like how the team looks with Martin starting. He really has impressed me as of late and I think he would/will be more consistant with this additional playing time.
I am all for shipping Reef and Peja but I do want to see how we do the next few games. The last 2 were against teams that are having there own issues and were both in a slump. With that said the energy the team has right now is great and its actually fun to watch them play again.
I really like how the team looks with Martin starting. He really has impressed me as of late and I think he would/will be more consistant with this additional playing time.
I am all for shipping Reef and Peja but I do want to see how we do the next few games. The last 2 were against teams that are having there own issues and were both in a slump. With that said the energy the team has right now is great and its actually fun to watch them play again.
natedizzle
G-League
If Kings do not make a trade, I think the best thing to do would be to start KT and bring SAR off the bench. KT adds athleticism which is important with Miller being so unathletic. A more difficult issue would be who to start out of Peja, Bonzi, and K-Mart. Personally, I would like to see K-Mart and Bonzi start over either one with Peja. I agree with all others who have stated that Peja's days as a King are numbered.
love_them_kings
Starter
Sparky said:
you're right. The roster that GP's put together is not going to be a great team no matter who's coaching. And I think of things that need to change, the coach is not the BIGGEST problem we have right now by a long shot.
treewoman
Bench
vj9999 said:What makes you think Peja will be coming back?
I think we are starting to see how replacable are some of our players.
I noticed several times that when te announcers referred to injured Kings starters that they referred only to SAR & Bonzi...I realize that Peja is supposed to be back Tuesday but it seemed to me that they were deliberately leaving him out of the mix. Wonder if they know something?
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playmaker0017
Guest
It really is funny how you all have pegged Peja as the scapegoat.
He's having a tough season and has been injured through most of it.
I'm no Peja fan, but you all are on a witch hunt. During Peja's hot 10 game streak everyone was saying "oh my, Peja's back" and how great he is. After he gets injured he hasn't played to that level again ... yet everyone wants his head.
I wonder if this is how you all were to Chris Webber.
Peja is one of the top players on this team. You want to find the problems, it really isn't starting with Peja. It's starting with Mike Bibby and Brad Miller.
I know, I know ... you are probably saying: "Oh my, how can this be? They've played so well!"
Well, offensively, yes ... over the season they've looked decent offensively. They're looking great over the past two games. But, defensively they are a one way, express ticket to the basket. People want to talk about Peja's poor defensive rotation - at least he attempts to rotate, the same cannot be said of Bibby. People want to talk about hustle - and our PG is consistantly being beaten down the court. Miller can't outmuscle any center in this league and he can outquick them either. He's a joke defensively. Anyone giving up a 60% average to their opponent should be strung up and shot.
Our problems this season have NOT stemmed from poor ball movement. It hasn't stemmed from a stagnant offense. It doesn't involve not being able to score. It deals with not being able to stop the opponent from scoring.
You can change lineups and play hopscotch all day ... but Bibby and Miller are refusing to play defense this year.
Last year vs This year shooting % and PPG against
Miller : 49%/19.6 ------- vs. ------- 59%/21.3
Bibby : 47% / 19.2 ------- vs. ------- 53%/20.5
That's what is killing us. We aren't playing defense.
Peja is also off from last year.
That's our problem ladies and gentlemen ... even over this two game win streak over cold opponents ... we've allowed over 51% shooting. That's terrible. Terrible. Terrible.
He's having a tough season and has been injured through most of it.
I'm no Peja fan, but you all are on a witch hunt. During Peja's hot 10 game streak everyone was saying "oh my, Peja's back" and how great he is. After he gets injured he hasn't played to that level again ... yet everyone wants his head.
I wonder if this is how you all were to Chris Webber.
Peja is one of the top players on this team. You want to find the problems, it really isn't starting with Peja. It's starting with Mike Bibby and Brad Miller.
I know, I know ... you are probably saying: "Oh my, how can this be? They've played so well!"
Well, offensively, yes ... over the season they've looked decent offensively. They're looking great over the past two games. But, defensively they are a one way, express ticket to the basket. People want to talk about Peja's poor defensive rotation - at least he attempts to rotate, the same cannot be said of Bibby. People want to talk about hustle - and our PG is consistantly being beaten down the court. Miller can't outmuscle any center in this league and he can outquick them either. He's a joke defensively. Anyone giving up a 60% average to their opponent should be strung up and shot.
Our problems this season have NOT stemmed from poor ball movement. It hasn't stemmed from a stagnant offense. It doesn't involve not being able to score. It deals with not being able to stop the opponent from scoring.
You can change lineups and play hopscotch all day ... but Bibby and Miller are refusing to play defense this year.
Last year vs This year shooting % and PPG against
Miller : 49%/19.6 ------- vs. ------- 59%/21.3
Bibby : 47% / 19.2 ------- vs. ------- 53%/20.5
That's what is killing us. We aren't playing defense.
Peja is also off from last year.
That's our problem ladies and gentlemen ... even over this two game win streak over cold opponents ... we've allowed over 51% shooting. That's terrible. Terrible. Terrible.
Tenacious D
Prospect
After seeing these last two games I think that when Peja gets back (as well as Bonzi and SAR) that RA should go with a more athletic line up.
Starting-
Bibby
Miller
Martin
Thomas
Bonzi
Bench
Hart/Price
Garcia
SAR
Peja
Skinner
This gives us rebounds and athleticism with the starters and more offense and guys to set screens for Peja off the bench. This would also let Peja and SAR dominate other teams bench while our starting team would run other teams out of the gym.
I know this would not happen because the staff likes Peja too much, but I think that if the team has a hard time working an offense around Peja, why not have him be a scorer off the bench like Jackson was? Plus with Hart and Garcia on the floor at the same time, they can work the ball around more and SAR can be the floor leader for the second team.
Starting-
Bibby
Miller
Martin
Thomas
Bonzi
Bench
Hart/Price
Garcia
SAR
Peja
Skinner
This gives us rebounds and athleticism with the starters and more offense and guys to set screens for Peja off the bench. This would also let Peja and SAR dominate other teams bench while our starting team would run other teams out of the gym.
I know this would not happen because the staff likes Peja too much, but I think that if the team has a hard time working an offense around Peja, why not have him be a scorer off the bench like Jackson was? Plus with Hart and Garcia on the floor at the same time, they can work the ball around more and SAR can be the floor leader for the second team.
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playmaker0017
Guest
piksi said:
Well, it's absolutely absurd, I have to tell you.
A guy that's done nothing but good things in the city of Sacramento ... a good guy in general, keeps his (big) nose clean and never says bad things about the fans, city or anything ... and the fans here all trounce him like he's slept with their sisters.
He's having a sub-par year that probably half of the SFs in this league wished they were doing. He's hurt and no one wants to give him a break. It's obvious something is bothering him ... or has did the fact that his numbers fell after the injury not draw enough coincidence for you?
You can say all you want about this current lineup doing well, blah, blah, blah. It seems everyone is so focused on offense that they've missed the fact that two teams have just scored over 100points on us and we gave up 51% shooting and turned it over 20 times in the game. That's bad basketball, regardless of the outcome.
Then the starting lineup that is so "highly energetic and fun to watch" is losing the battle out there. They have given up more points than they've gotten.
There is a different horse people should be beating and it's name is defense. The two biggest culprits on defense right now are Bibby and Miller. So, if anyone wants to complain - I would think it makes sense to start there.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
a) Peja is and has been a problem. And it doesn't matter whether he is hot or not. It DOES NOT MATTER. All that him scoring well does is cover up or obscure the issues. A wuss without heart, and the real danger that attitude is catching.
b) That said Peja is NOT singlehandedly destroying the Kings or any bunk like that. He, like SAR, is incapable of taking us anywhere, incapable of leading, not tough enough, fierce enough, hungry enough. And piling up those players is just idiocy. But like the Webber thing, Peja is not somehow magically ruining his teammates. Just as a I mocked Peja homers for the constant rants about how Webb was somehow magically sapping Peja's talent and heart, the same thing applies here for Peja vis a vis the rest of the team. Players are responsible for themselves. That includes Peja, and includes everyone else as well.
b) That said Peja is NOT singlehandedly destroying the Kings or any bunk like that. He, like SAR, is incapable of taking us anywhere, incapable of leading, not tough enough, fierce enough, hungry enough. And piling up those players is just idiocy. But like the Webber thing, Peja is not somehow magically ruining his teammates. Just as a I mocked Peja homers for the constant rants about how Webb was somehow magically sapping Peja's talent and heart, the same thing applies here for Peja vis a vis the rest of the team. Players are responsible for themselves. That includes Peja, and includes everyone else as well.
chelle
Starter
I like SAR. I think he is good player and appears to be an even better person. We have seen how he has played as a starter. I have no complaints about his performance. I also do not have any "glowing praises." He has not hurt us, but he has not bumped us back up to elite status either. I AM NOT SAYING THAT IS HIS FAULT. I am old-school and blame each "failure" on the team and credit each success to the team. I do not want to see him traded. I believe that he can really help this team and want to see him heal quickly. He is important to our success.
That being said, WHY NOT try him off the bench when he comes back. Since he has been out (I KNOW IT HAS ONLY BEEN 2 GAMES), Thomas has done well. Why not try him starting? If they both could spilt time and base their starting on the match ups with the other teams, we could not only be solid at their position - we could be very good at the 4 spot. If it helps the team they should be willing to share the starting spot. The question will be - Will their egos allow it?
That being said, WHY NOT try him off the bench when he comes back. Since he has been out (I KNOW IT HAS ONLY BEEN 2 GAMES), Thomas has done well. Why not try him starting? If they both could spilt time and base their starting on the match ups with the other teams, we could not only be solid at their position - we could be very good at the 4 spot. If it helps the team they should be willing to share the starting spot. The question will be - Will their egos allow it?
piksi
Hall of Famer
playmaker0017 said:
You right but same happened to Webber and he is gone and Pedja might be gone too and soon. Is it going to make Kings better - no because You can't get anything for him that would solve all the problems. You can't pay him max either. Because You will still have a lineup that have one average defender max ans when shots are not falling ...
Generally, we have won 2 games and it is how it goes around here. How much it was us and how much it was the opponent - hard to tell. A better coach takes Bibby out of the game earlier and wins the game Doc figured it out late - luckly.
Example KT - he had a great game last night but he is the same player. He is not the solution and he is not better than SAR. He might be too quick for Webber and have a good game but then he has Brand, JO, Gasol. I am too scared to predict.
Example Garcia - You got to be kidding me right he is like a cow that gives You 50 gallons of milk but then kicks it with the leg and spills all that milk.
Example Martin - Kevin will be a good player whe he gets stronger and more experienced. He needs to get minutes. Can he guard any decent SG in this league - not yet but he has some DC in him
Put all of it together and You get zone and zone will win You games but You can't play it all the time and You can't play it agains everyone. Korver will kill our zone if we let him.
playmaker0017 said:
Maybe if you'd been around as a Kings fan for the past four years, you'd better understand what's going on with a lot of us. We're being honest and open about our opinions, which we have every right in the world to have - whether you agree with them or not.
It's not about beating a horse. It's about personal opinons and yours is no better than anyone elses.
Tenacious D
Prospect
Martin replaces Peja in starting line up. We can use his quickness in the zone and for fast breaks. We can use Peja’s points against weaker defenders, plus if Peja needs screens who better than Skinner. This way you do not take away from Brad’s offense.
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