When is it Petrie's time to go?
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Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
No as for Petrie...I was calling for his head up until 2 1/2 years ago. That is when the actual rebuild started here. Before that we had 3-4 years of complete stupidity, whether it was his or the Maloofs. Since the rebuild started we have accumulated more talent over that period of time than any other young team. Its just come time to get serious about bringing it all together. You only pile it up so long, then you have to start winning before it all dissipates Clippers style. Only feels like such a long downturn for the Kings because of the stupid years before we finally started the rebuild.
rainmaker
Hall of Famer
I'd strongly consider this guy, despite what happened with B Roy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Pritchard
But I'd also give Petrie a little time to fix this roster, which doesn't fit. If he can replace one of our 1v1 guys with a defender, or brings in some size for our frontline, we'll at least know he's moving in the right direction.
But until the Maloofs spend, doesn't really matter who the gm is.
Well so have the Kings. The difference is that Khan had an idea of what he wanted the whole time and went out and completed it. It seemed to all hang on getting Rubio here, but once he got that, he got his coach and he got a lot of good deals on trades. (Beasley for nothing pretty much.) There was an obvious blueprint he had, which he admitted was basically glory years Kings, but its still a blueprint. Petrie can't commit to any idea for more than two years. There is no blueprint, just a rough sketch that looks like Michael J Fox drew it.
King Baller
All-Star
All this love for Kahn now that Adelman has turned the T-Pups around is stupid. Don't forget that Mchale Drafted Garnett and traded for Kevin Love. McHale knows talent. Kahn drafted 87 point guards and we saw one of the best that he drafted and then traded the other night in Denver.
Petrie is an upper tier judge of talent. The Maloofs have had the Kings on a tight budget for awhile. It is what it is fellas, Petrie is a good GM.
KB
Petrie is an upper tier judge of talent. The Maloofs have had the Kings on a tight budget for awhile. It is what it is fellas, Petrie is a good GM.
KB
ArcoKings
Starter
The Maloofs reached out to him but he declined. They also wanted Stan Van Gundy but he played the Kings instead and faxed the signed contract from a Sacramento area Kinkos to Orlando.
I am surprised this thread was not treated by the usual people as if it is TABOO.
I think the Kings needs a new GM as soon as possible. The mess that the team has been for so many years now is the result of having a very poor "GM". Let us stop blaming the Maloofs, the coach, or the players, or the Sacramento city itself and get excuses for Petrie. Bad GM = Bad organization, and therefore poor product. Petrie will cause the Maloof's Kings to go bancrupt.
MassachusettsKingsFan
All-Star
Here are my thoughts on Geoff:
His priorities over the past few season have been pretty obvious. Acquire young talent and shed salary. While I don't love every move he's made, he has done a fantastic job at doing those things.
Since the 2007 NBA draft he has hit on almost every pick.
Hawes, Thompson, Evans, Casspi, Brockman, Cousins, Whiteside, Fredette, Honeycutt, Thomas.
Thats a damn good track record. Even for the Hawes haters, Petrie was right. Look at his numbers this year in Philly. He is finally playing well.
In a roundabout way he also turned Kevin Martin into Marcus Thornton, who I would take anyways ... not to mention he is younger and cheaper.
He hasn't been perfect, but he has been pretty good. If he is eventually let go I wouldn't be shocked, but I'm not calling for his head. Not yet. He absolutely needs to figure out this coaching situation though.
His priorities over the past few season have been pretty obvious. Acquire young talent and shed salary. While I don't love every move he's made, he has done a fantastic job at doing those things.
Since the 2007 NBA draft he has hit on almost every pick.
Hawes, Thompson, Evans, Casspi, Brockman, Cousins, Whiteside, Fredette, Honeycutt, Thomas.
Thats a damn good track record. Even for the Hawes haters, Petrie was right. Look at his numbers this year in Philly. He is finally playing well.
In a roundabout way he also turned Kevin Martin into Marcus Thornton, who I would take anyways ... not to mention he is younger and cheaper.
He hasn't been perfect, but he has been pretty good. If he is eventually let go I wouldn't be shocked, but I'm not calling for his head. Not yet. He absolutely needs to figure out this coaching situation though.
Nevermind those picks because they are not exceptional picks and we cannot really say if they will all turn out to be very good players. Even Cousins and Evans success remains to be seen and we are not sure they will become the players we hope they would be.
Also, you can say he was right on Martin, but what about on Douby?
Let us not forget he is not getting payed millions only to pick the right players during drafts. So you could not just say he is good because of this. Otherwise, let us just hire him as a talent scout/evaluator.
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Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Picking the right players in drafts is actually the single most important thing you can do in a rebuild. Actually that's often the franchise turning event. Nothing in the NBA is as important as drafting Tyreke Evans instead of Johnny Flynn, or Dirk Nowtitzki instead of Robert Tractor Traylor. Changes everything.
ParniValjak
All-Star
Pretty much sums it up! Now if he can somehow work his magic and get someone like Noah while keeping Reke, Cousins and Thornton then he would get an A+ from me!
If Dwight gets traded to Chicago, I have no doubt that Noah is going to be a part of that deal. Petrie did want to draft Noah and was bummed when Bulls picked him a pick before ours and has asked a few times afterwards about his availability.
Kingster
Hall of Famer
Point taken. Let's put it this way. I'd like for the Maloofs to start thinking about who they would replace him with. Do the research and find the guy.
Uncia03
Starter
I guess I just don't understand why people are upset with Petrie right now.
After Webber went down with the knee injury our team was toast. High payroll and missing the primary piece to have any sort of success. Any organization would suffer tremendously if it happened to their primary star. Imagine how difficult it would be for OCK if something happened to Durant this year in the play-offs.
After the injury we then had the futile couple of years while we languished trying/failing to make that high payroll team produce at a championship level.
Then the painful dismantling of the roster, cutting salary trying to get rid of bloated contracts.
And finally, the reaching the promised land. Getting so bad that you can acquire top talent in the drafts.
In my opinion this team at this moment has a brighter future than any team we've had since Webber went down.
I'll take this team and the talent level over a lot of teams which have either been bad recently or are on the decline. (Detroit, Charlotte, Toronto, Cleveland, Washington, Pheonix, Houston)
I'll take this team over teams who have had success but probably don't have what it takes to seriously compete for a championship. (Atlanta, Orlando, Portland, ect.)
There's so much to be optimistic about regarding the talent level here.
Let's be honest, the hardest part in putting a team together is to get the talent. All the other things (coach, support players, building chemisty, ect.) that are needed to building a competitive team come secondary.
I feel that we have acquired the talent. Now we need to put together the other items to get things moving, but Petrie has been successful in the hardest part. It's way too early to determine success or failure with the 2nd part. We're the youngest team in the league so we have time to see what moves are made to get the most out of our talent.
After Webber went down with the knee injury our team was toast. High payroll and missing the primary piece to have any sort of success. Any organization would suffer tremendously if it happened to their primary star. Imagine how difficult it would be for OCK if something happened to Durant this year in the play-offs.
After the injury we then had the futile couple of years while we languished trying/failing to make that high payroll team produce at a championship level.
Then the painful dismantling of the roster, cutting salary trying to get rid of bloated contracts.
And finally, the reaching the promised land. Getting so bad that you can acquire top talent in the drafts.
In my opinion this team at this moment has a brighter future than any team we've had since Webber went down.
I'll take this team and the talent level over a lot of teams which have either been bad recently or are on the decline. (Detroit, Charlotte, Toronto, Cleveland, Washington, Pheonix, Houston)
I'll take this team over teams who have had success but probably don't have what it takes to seriously compete for a championship. (Atlanta, Orlando, Portland, ect.)
There's so much to be optimistic about regarding the talent level here.
Let's be honest, the hardest part in putting a team together is to get the talent. All the other things (coach, support players, building chemisty, ect.) that are needed to building a competitive team come secondary.
I feel that we have acquired the talent. Now we need to put together the other items to get things moving, but Petrie has been successful in the hardest part. It's way too early to determine success or failure with the 2nd part. We're the youngest team in the league so we have time to see what moves are made to get the most out of our talent.
kingsnation
All-Star
Which is really inexcusable IMO. I think that's why Petrie has lost many fans' support honestly. That's why he's lost my trust and support. I don't want to beat a dead horse, but my support in him and the FO began to dwindle with the "flexible pieces." I think that we've given Petrie alot of passes because he does draft well. However, honestly, I don't think the DMC pick was a mark of genius by Petrie, simply a gamble that we've yet to see result in success. Potential, yes. Long term success, no. The same goes for all the picks this year. Hawes is no longer here (which I still think is a good thing) but Geoff made the trade. Kevin no longer here. JT is 4 years into his development and still developing. A GM's job is to build a team. Geoff is 7 years in that process (since Webb was traded) and we're still wondering when that team is going to be built.
MassachusettsKingsFan
All-Star
I don't know man. I think those ARE exceptional picks.
As long as we are counting Douby, why not go back two more years and include Kevin Martin and Francisco Garcia? Look at what some of these other teams do in the draft... everyone doesn't hit. Sure, Douby was a miss, but that is literally his ONLY miss in the past 8 drafts. Then when you include the 2nd round ... I'd be surprised if ANY team in the league has drafted this many NBA players since 2004. Off the top of my head I can only name 2 players in the past 8 drafts that aren't in the NBA right now .. Douby and Ewing Jr.
And its not always the obvious guy. He plucked Kevin Martin and Jason Thompson from 'out of nowhere'. Not literally, but they were small school players.
He has been average to bad at everything else, sure. But I think he is an elite level drafter, and I don't trust the MAloofs to bring in anyone better at this point.
kingsnation
All-Star
I hate this. This FO is all about pointing fingers and avoiding accountability. It's really ridiculous. Do I doubt him? No. Do I agree with him calling out his authority and team leadership? Well, didn't DMC just do the same thing to Westphal?
If you want to look at one reason why this team is failing, look at the FO.
kingsfan101
Starter
I think Petrie is a good GM, and he should stay. Building a strong team in a small market is tough, unless you really get lucky in the draft, and/or, your owners have really deep pockets. A storied history helps, but only some. Let's see some examples
- Jerry West was a huge success in LA. In Memphis, not so much
- SA has had really good luck (helped by very strong and stable management). However, they are looking old, and might go downhill quickly.
- Indiana had some really strong years, but have been middling for several years now.
I know that most of us would take their problems over ours in an instant. However, just wanted to highlight some challenges faced by small market teams. People give examples of SA and OKC, and to some extent Portland. Amongst these, I give major props to SA for drafting players like Parker, Manu, Splitter, DeJuan and even Louis Scola with late picks (Manu with a second round pick! Are you kidding me?). They were also incredibly lucky to dip into lottery two times, and come away with the Admiral and Duncan (just imagine. Not only winning it twice, but winning it when all time greats in every aspect, skills, team mates, leadership etc. are available).
OKC has also been very good at this. They have been extremely patient; building through the draft (again, getting Durant solves a lot of problems), but pouncing when a good deal comes through.
Portland has had a bit of a rotten luck like us. Their owner let KP buy picks to speed up the rebuilding after the Jailblazer days. Had Oden and Roy not gotten injured, they likely would be contending for a title (despite their glorious run so far this year, I think they aren't there yet).
Well, the above were exceptions. OKC might have to let go some players soon when it is forced to pay them. SA looked old in playoffs last year, and shall find it difficult to reload now that they shall not offer veterans a shot at a ring. Unless they get really lucky in draft again (hopefully I'm jinxing them), they might be stuck in mediocrity for a while, though Pop is good enough to not let them fall any more (which might be bad for them overall).
Long post already, but how does to relate to us? I think we had the worst of all. When Chris went down, our roster was built to win then. We were paying tax, picking very low in draft, and not developing our youngsters (or letting them go in expansion teams). If it was clear that our window had closed, we should have rebuilt then. It would have been painful, but quick.
I must admit, that I didn't see it that way then either. I was always hoping that the team was better than what it was, and was not quite ready for a rebuild. Not sure if Geoff wanted to hang on to that, or did so on the bidding of the owners. But that was a mistake. And after that, it's been a series of them. The owners started meddling around the same time as their financial position became shaky; Rick was let go, which was the single worst move we made; no top shot coach/FA wants to consider us, and despite doing poorly, we weren't getting lucky in the lottery (though we still came away with decent talent).
We have considerable talent in place. With some time together and a good coach (this I think is most critical. Let's see if Smart is that guy), we can become good again. If so, the FAs that are shunning us now, will be more willing to come.
As for Petrie, his draft record is mixed. I like his overall picks, and all teams miss a few in the draft. Hindsight being 20/20, it's easy to berate him. However, just off the top of my head, here are some of last few picks (note: I don't follow college BB at all, so had no idea on the picks then. Just seeing how people did compared to those picked after them. Pick might have been good at that time).
Martin: One of the best players in his class. Very good pick at that position.
Cisco: Decent. Think would have had a better career if were more stable. However, we could have gotten David Lee.
Douby: One of the bad picks, though at that time, some people thought he could be the steal of the draft.
Hawes: Think it was the correct pick, even though it didn't turn out quite so good for us. We needed a big, and he was the best available. Can think of only Stuckey, who was picked behind him as someone we could have picked instead.
JT: Decent.
Evans: This is tricky. I like him a lot, and think he might end up being the best from his class (or maybe Blake). So far though, I guess if we had picked Jennings, Curry or Rubio either, I might not have been complaining so much.
Cousins: This was a no-brainer.
Jimmer: Too early.
We have done extremely poorly in second round picks though. As for HW, we shall see. IT has shown promise. Hopefully, both these guys along with Tyler shall be regular rotation players, and more.
Over the last few years, I can think of only Price, whom we picked in second round (or was he undrafted?), who saw meaningful NBA action.
As for Geoff, if we let him go, we better have a good replacement ready. Else, we might be stuck with a situation similar to Rick.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
I'm Bajaden, and I approve this post!
bajaden
Hall of Famer
I think he's also responsible for the state of California for being bankrupt, Global warming, and my trash not being picked up... Let me see what else I can blame him for? Hmmmm!
hammystyle
Starter
I think it might be exactly the time to go actually. His ability to identify talent in the draft remains intact. (Though Cousins was a gimme talent-wise and we are dealing with the reasons he fell there). But I don't have faith in his ability to turn these core pieces into a winning team any more. Can he navigate contract and trade negotiations to maximize around the core? What if two years down the line trading Cousins or Tyreke becomes a clear move? Is Geoff the guy to maximize value?
I don't feel he is "owed" anything other than the remaining money on his contract.
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
Yesterday, I found a hair in my salad. I think it would be prudent to blame Geoff
bajaden
Hall of Famer
For the most part, I'm OK with Petrie remaining GM. There have been some moves that I didn't like, but it hard to know exactly where to put the blame without knowing all the facts. Were's stuck with subjective thinking, and thats always flawed to some degree. Especially when mixed with bias.. Of course I have none 
so only my opinion counts.
Seriously, my biggest complaint with Petire is his conservatism. He tends to do well when he has the time to study whatever problem he's trying to solve. But he moves slowly, too slowly at times, when an opportunity presents itself. Especially if he's not looking to make a bold move at the time. Opportunities like Pau Gasol and Gerald Wallace etc. happen from time to time, but they don't last long.
My second biggest complaint is his loyality. And believe me, I hate to be critical of anyone being loyal. But I believe, and this is just my belief with no facts to back it up, that Petrie remains loyal to certain players or coaches beyond a reasonable time. Sometimes to the point of that individual losing value along the way. Its easy to see how something might work, but harder at times to see that something isn't working, and probably never will.
So he's far from perfect. And I do believe that everyone runs their course at some point, except Jerry Reynolds, who has the ability to morph into whatevers needed at the time. Its hard to argue with Petrie's track record in the draft. Quincy Douby aside, he's been very solid and at times exceptional. He pulled Peja and Hedo out of his hat, both shocking picks at the time, and somewhat bold picks at the time. He drafted Funderburke in the second round along with the animal Michael Smith. Lets not forget he drafted Brian Grant with his first pick in that draft. So please spare me Quincy Douby as the one weak example of failure.
Since the glory days, his freeagent signings have been less than stellar. And this is the gray area. We don't know what restrictions were put on him, or not. Bottom line is though, he wears the mantle of GM. And as the saying goes, "The buck stops here". His day of departure will come. My hope is, that whoever the owner is at the time, has someone already lined up that has experience and a track record that equals or exceeds Petrie's. No beginners please! I will make myself available for the job of course.
so only my opinion counts. Seriously, my biggest complaint with Petire is his conservatism. He tends to do well when he has the time to study whatever problem he's trying to solve. But he moves slowly, too slowly at times, when an opportunity presents itself. Especially if he's not looking to make a bold move at the time. Opportunities like Pau Gasol and Gerald Wallace etc. happen from time to time, but they don't last long.
My second biggest complaint is his loyality. And believe me, I hate to be critical of anyone being loyal. But I believe, and this is just my belief with no facts to back it up, that Petrie remains loyal to certain players or coaches beyond a reasonable time. Sometimes to the point of that individual losing value along the way. Its easy to see how something might work, but harder at times to see that something isn't working, and probably never will.
So he's far from perfect. And I do believe that everyone runs their course at some point, except Jerry Reynolds, who has the ability to morph into whatevers needed at the time. Its hard to argue with Petrie's track record in the draft. Quincy Douby aside, he's been very solid and at times exceptional. He pulled Peja and Hedo out of his hat, both shocking picks at the time, and somewhat bold picks at the time. He drafted Funderburke in the second round along with the animal Michael Smith. Lets not forget he drafted Brian Grant with his first pick in that draft. So please spare me Quincy Douby as the one weak example of failure.
Since the glory days, his freeagent signings have been less than stellar. And this is the gray area. We don't know what restrictions were put on him, or not. Bottom line is though, he wears the mantle of GM. And as the saying goes, "The buck stops here". His day of departure will come. My hope is, that whoever the owner is at the time, has someone already lined up that has experience and a track record that equals or exceeds Petrie's. No beginners please! I will make myself available for the job of course.
kingsfan101
Starter
Agree with your post. However, regarding the point above, I think our ability to sign FAs shall come if we become any good; the FAs won't make us good. We shall get our stars from the draft (hopefully, already have), and not via FA. Trade is possible, but not very likely.
This is the problem with being a small market team. Cap space won't do much good. Look at Detroit recently. Relatively recently, they won a championship, and then went to the finals. But once they went down, all their cap space got them Ben Gordon and Charlie V.
If we become contenders, we shall get veterans taking a low salary to fill up our roster and provide valuable experience and minutes. Doubt we get an impact FA.
Livinthedream
All-Star
White Vlade????
Maybe he meant "American-born" Vlade?
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