When does Miller become expendable?

#1
Eventually Spencer will be the starting 5 . So my question is do the Kings let Millers contract expire and get nothing in return OR make a move mid season or in the Summer and attempt to get a valueable player in return.

Something I thought about was making a trade for Nene in exchange for Miller to play along side with Thompson. The next step should be to be a player in the free agency market in 2009 or 2010.
 
#2
IMO, Miller becomes expendable when the Kings finally have an able center capable of surpassing Miller's value in this team. And right now, I don't think there is anybody else available to do just that for the team, whether from our roster or from a realistic trade. Hawes maybe the future, but he had not surpassed Miller's value yet. It would be a luxury for the Kings to still have both Miller and Hawes playing together at #5 and #4 respectively. ( Hawes/Miller = Webber/Divac tandem ;) )

You just have to review the previous games when Miller had consistently been a double-double ( rebs and points ) and has been the significant facilitator of Kings offense. Miller's game probably had always been the difference between winning and losing. With Miller around, most players looked good, Martin was more efficient, the BIGS ( Hawes and Thompson ) were thriving, and our point guards didn't have to be a 10 assists per game-players like Nash, Paul, or Williams.

Why in the hell would we want to lose Miller in exchange for Nene who has not been a double-double, never been the scary defender as a center, and most often times on the bench nursing an injury?

If Miller for Oden, by all means go for it! :D

Actually, I am for retaining Miller until his contract expires, and just re-sign him at a cheaper price to be the future back up for Hawes at #5. You just can't find a double-double 7' 0" center in this league who can facilitate the offense more than Miller can.

Starting 5 until Hawes is ready or Thabeet is in:

#5 Miller ( 7' 0" )
#4 Hawes ( 7' 0" )
#3 Thompson ( 6' 11" )
#2 Martin ( 6' 7" )
#1 Udrih ( 6' 3" )

Rotation/Minutes:

#5 Miller ( 30 min ) Hawes ( 18 min )
#4 Hawes ( 12 min ) Thompson ( 18 min ) Moore ( 9 min ) Williams ( 9 min )
#3 Thompson ( 12 min ) Greene ( 18min ) Salmons ( 9 min ) Garcia ( 9 min )
#2 Martin ( 36 min ) Salmons ( 6 min ) Garcia ( 6 min )
#1 Udrih ( 30 min ) ( BBrown 18 min ) ( BJax or Douby - garbage time )

------------------------------------------------------

Future Starting 5 when Hawes and Greene are ready :

#5 Hawes ( 7' 0" )
#4 Thompson ( 6' 11" )
#3 Greene ( 6' 11' )
#2 Martin ( 6' 7" )
#1 Udrih ( 6' 3" )

Rotation/Minutes:

#5 Hawes ( 36 min ) Miller or Thabeet gambit :D( 12 minutes )
#4 Thompson ( 36 min ) Moore, Williams, Greene ( 12 minutes )
#3 Greene ( 36min ) Salmons or Garcia (12 min )
#2 Martin ( 36 min ) Salmons or Garcia ( 12 min )
#1 Udrih ( 30 min ) Brown, Salmons or Garcia ( 18 minutes )
 
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Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Staff member
#3
Answer to question = as of Game 1 of this season.

Not only is he in the way of the rebuild, but Spencer is ready.

We will be weaker up front in the shrot term because of it -- for the first time in half a decade we have size and depth up front. But its a short term mirage anyway. That size and depth is aging and depreciating in a season which does not matter. Get what you can for it (Brad and Mikki) while the getting is good, get them out of the way of the kids, bring back in a little more young talent, and now that the rebuild is finally here, lets accelerate through it. We've got a young core that can be competitive in a few years with Kevin/Spencer/Thompson, and maybe Greene, Beno, or Cisco. So time to get the pieces that will actually be able to play alongside them.
 
#4
i'd like to see miller gone at the trade deadline for a expiring and a first....we dont need much right now in terms of players....we have our future set and miller is just in the way of that...hawes is ready....he's been arguably our most consistent player all season.
 
#5
Other than his contract, he really is a very good fit for this team. He is a vetern player willing to mentor who knows how to win. He is not a selfish player capable of making the youngsters around him better. He actually complements Spencer fairly well, too.

Granted, I would like to see him traded, but I can think of worse players to have on this roster.
 
#7
Trade Miller now, start Hawes and Thompson at the power positions, Mikki or Shelden Williams becomes the new backup center. If some of the other long-term contracts (Salmons, Udrih, Garcia) can be packaged with Miller, great.

There's no need to wait until Hawes (hopefully) becomes a better player than Miller, because winning is not the highest priority right now. If they can move some of the players who are good enough to keep the team stuck in mediocrity, maybe they can manage to get a draft pick higher than #12.
 
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#8
Miller is the only big capable of playing big minutes against the (Odens, Shaqs) of the league. Unless you can get a replacement, we need Miller. Besides it's Moore who is taking minutes away from the rookies, not Miller. Miller, Hawes, & JT are a great rotation.

If or when, we get a PG we can run the offense through or if Hawes developes passing skills close to Millers then we can look to replacing Miller.

IMHO, the biggest need is to develop Greene' as soon as possible. When he is capable of giving us 15 good minutes hopefully before the trade deadline, then move Moore & Douby for an expiring, which will give us cap space and two 1st rounders in the summer. With draft choices and cap space, GP will have more options to wheel & deal in the 09 FA market.
 
#9
Eventually Spencer will be the starting 5 . So my question is do the Kings let Millers contract expire and get nothing in return OR make a move mid season or in the Summer and attempt to get a valueable player in return.

Something I thought about was making a trade for Nene in exchange for Miller to play along side with Thompson. The next step should be to be a player in the free agency market in 2009 or 2010.

Never...

also.. You guys give Thabeet more credit than he is due.. He isn't THAT good.. I have been watching him for the past two years and the dude is lost out there. STILL..
 

6th

Homer Fan Since 1985
#11
Every single player is expendable as long as you can get a better player for the team or clear needed cap space.

Having said that..........I like Brad Miller. I've always liked Brad Miller. Has he made mistakes, i.e. letting himself get out of shape, getting involved with controlled substances that caused his suspension? You bet. Is he still a valuable member of the Kings? Yes!

I think it is time to trade Brad, but not because I hate or dislike Brad. Only because by doing so, I believe we get further along the rebuild street and that is for the betterment of the Sacramento Kings. Will I still miss Brad when he is gone? Oh, hell yes!

I do not, and will never, understand the nastiness and vitriol displayed by some fans toward players who currently wear our team's uniform. Why can't everyone (who wants Brad off the Kings) state their wish to trade Brad without displaying venom?
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#12
Every single player is expendable as long as you can get a better player for the team or clear needed cap space.

Having said that..........I like Brad Miller. I've always liked Brad Miller. Has he made mistakes, i.e. letting himself get out of shape, getting involved with controlled substances that caused his suspension? You bet. Is he still a valuable member of the Kings? Yes!

I think it is time to trade Brad, but not because I hate or dislike Brad. Only because by doing so, I believe we get further along the rebuild street and that is for the betterment of the Sacramento Kings. Will I still miss Brad when he is gone? Oh, hell yes!

I do not, and will never, understand the nastiness and vitriol displayed by some fans toward players who currently wear our team's uniform. Why can't everyone (who wants Brad off the Kings) state their wish to trade Brad without displaying venom?
DITTO to that.
 
#13
Eventually Spencer will be the starting 5 . So my question is do the Kings let Millers contract expire and get nothing in return OR make a move mid season or in the Summer and attempt to get a valueable player in return.

Something I thought about was making a trade for Nene in exchange for Miller to play along side with Thompson. The next step should be to be a player in the free agency market in 2009 or 2010.

I do not necessarily agree with the presupposition. I am in the camp that we let his contract run it's course and take his $11 and add it to the expiring contracts of Moore and Thomas (about $6 and $9) to give us a sum of $26 million to try and buy an all-star caliber player in the likes of Bosh, Aldridge or even Joe Johnson. Pie in the sky would be Dwade or Lebron (okay I am getting carried away now). If none of these guys want to come here and win a championship then we can always use part of that 26 million to buy 2 or 3 lower caliber players. But I think you have to at least try to score big in '10.
 
#14
He's expendable when we can pick up another 10 & 10 big to replace him.

Yea, Martin will lose a couple back cut dunks, but for the most part the offense will continue to develop through one of the other bigs or the PG. In fact, the pick and roll may improve if run through one of the more athletic bigs.

So, unless we get a top 5 lottery pick, or GP pulls some fabulous FA trade in 09, I expect Miller to be with us through the 09 trade deadline. And, there's an outside chance they'll let his contract expire and use their Bird rights to resign him. The cap space in 2010, $21M from Miller & Thomas, won't bring a super star here. Super Stars want to play for a championship, and if they can't then their own team can pay them more. The best we can hope for is to sign a 2nd tier star and use the rest to resign Miller.
 
#15
A line-up of the following could make a run at a title in 3 years:

-Hawes
-Bosh
-Thompson
-Kmart
-Beno

Don't trade Miller for peanuts or a bag of chips unless you failed at bigger things first.

This is just my 2 cents. I understand other perspectives as well.
 
#17
A line-up of the following could make a run at a title in 3 years:

-Hawes
-Bosh
-Thompson
-Kmart
-Beno

Don't trade Miller for peanuts or a bag of chips unless you failed at bigger things first.

This is just my 2 cents. I understand other perspectives as well.
As good as Thompson has been, he just is not a SF. He can play there for short bursts and against certain teams but he is first and foremost a PF that is more suited to C than SF.

If we have learnt anything in his last 2 starts as a SF, he gets burned and will continue to get burned. Prince, then Hill all schooled him. He just cannot stay with the small forwards defensively.

There is nothing wrong with having three bigs each at least 6'10 rotating through C and PF throughout the game.

If we are lucky enough to get Bosh (highly unlikely but lets just dream for the time being) then there is nothing wrong with Hawes, Bosh and Thompson forming a formidable combination at PF and C.

Have Greene at SF (hopefully he fulfills the talent that the organizations believes he has) and have Garcia as the primary 2/3 back up off the bench and you are having the framework of a good team.

If we can get an upgrade at PG through the draft, get Bosh through FA and the youngs that we do have develop as we hope, then we are in the ball game.
 
A

AriesMar27

Guest
#18
trading brad doesnt help the team in the short term or long term since he isnt part of the problem.... i hope we resign him for less money obviously once his contract is up... moore needs to go asap...
 
#19
ńĆarolija:

we are thinking alike - I am just not writing clearly. I did not mean that those guys would have be on the court at the same time, but rather they would be the core/back-bone of our championship team.
 
#21
Don't let Brad go

As you can tell, I'm a Brad fan. Although his career will slowly begin to dwindle soon, he's still got a couple more years left that he can play. Not only is he an excellent passer and helps us by putting up 5-10 pts a night, he's also very experienced and a great leader.
 
#23
I think it will be very good for Spencer to play a year of significant minutes with Brad still the de facto starter at center. He'll be able to build confidence and develop without the pressure of being a starter. I'm in no rush to trade Brad.
 
A

AriesMar27

Guest
#24
I do not understand. Can you tell me why trading Brad does not help long term?
unless we are getting a better, younger player in return i dont see how it can be helpful in the long term. look at our previous trades... the webber trade didnt address any needs in the long term. in fact it hurt us in both the long term and short term, since his salary wouldve been gone by now and we still have thomas for another year. the bibby trade didnt help us in at all either... sheldon sucks and now we are overpaying for beno to be our starting pg when its obvious that he should be a career back up. who are we going to trade brad for that will help us in the long run? we are not getting a franchise player in exchange for him. the cap space that we would get next year will be there but who wants to play here thats better than brad?
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Staff member
#25
but who wants to play here thats better than brad?

Who that will be better than Brad within 3-4 years when this team is ready to contend? Virtually anybody we could sign.

Age. It is absolutely 100% critical. You can set aside everything else, and there is a lot of everything else (Brad does not do the things big men need to do to win, has never won, is squelching our kids minutewise etc.), and the age factor is dispositive. Brad Miller will NOT be Brad Miller by the time this team is any good. therefore his future and ours do not conincide. He is the past. Not a terribly glorious past. All pieces added now have to be added with the knowledge that the core is being built from guys who are 20-26 now. We can take on a younger player like Greene and have him emerging just as we get good, but we cannot take on older players who will be fading before we do anything with that core, who might cost us a draft position or two in the interim and who could bring us back a draft pick or kid in trade. That's misutilizing your assets. There is one last gift an agin player can give a rebuilding franchise, and that is whatever he can bring back in trade.
 
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#26
In addition, once you build a good core of players ready to contend, you will have your pick of over the peak veterans who are looking to supplement the stars. Their time is over, they want to be part of a championship team, salaries will be low, and no quibbles over the hierarchy of shots/minutes.

Collect young stars, watch them grow with each other, add role players (this is when you use that midlevel), and add a couple vets to plug your holes. Mix, bake at playoff temp for a couple years, and you have a championship team.
 
#27
In addition, once you build a good core of players ready to contend, you will have your pick of over the peak veterans who are looking to supplement the stars. Their time is over, they want to be part of a championship team, salaries will be low, and no quibbles over the hierarchy of shots/minutes.

Collect young stars, watch them grow with each other, add role players (this is when you use that midlevel), and add a couple vets to plug your holes. Mix, bake at playoff temp for a couple years, and you have a championship team.

You need all-stars in the mix, period.
 
A

AriesMar27

Guest
#28
Who that will be better than Brad within 3-4 years when this team is ready to contend? Virtually anybody we could sign.

Age. It is absolutely 100% critical. You can set aside everything else, and there is a lot of everything else (Brad does not do the things big men need to do to win, has never won, is squelching our kids minutewise etc.), and the age factor is dispositive. Brad Miller will NOT be Brad Miller by the time this team is any good. therefore his future and ours do not conincide. He is the past. Not a terribly glorious past. All pieces added now have to be added with the knowledge that the core is being built from guys who are 20-26 now. We can take on a younger player like Greene and have him emerging just as we get good, but we cannot take on older players who will be fading before we do anything with that core, who might cost us a draft position or two in the interim and who could bring us back a draft pick or kid in trade. That's misutilizing your assets. There is one last gift an agin player can give a rebuilding franchise, and that is whatever he can bring back in trade.
thats how we got thomas... what we got for webber wasnt better than him 3 years later.... and we're still paying him. with our luck the only player that we could trade miller for would be over paid busts like kwame or darko... they are younger and maybe they'll be better than miller in 3 years. i doubt it but you never know.
 
#29
thats how we got thomas... what we got for webber wasnt better than him 3 years later.... and we're still paying him. with our luck the only player that we could trade miller for would be over paid busts like kwame or darko... they are younger and maybe they'll be better than miller in 3 years. i doubt it but you never know.
The Webber trade wasn't a rebuilding move. That was a botched patch operation that looked bad then and worse since. A rebuilding move would have been for Mashburn's expiring and one of their kids... But that's so four years ago. The Bibby and Artest trades were rebuilding moves. I have no doubt we could get something similar (expiring+late 1st/prospect) done now if we really wanted to.
 
#30
The Webber trade wasn't a rebuilding move. That was a botched patch operation that looked bad then and worse since. A rebuilding move would have been for Mashburn's expiring and one of their kids... But that's so four years ago. The Bibby and Artest trades were rebuilding moves. I have no doubt we could get something similar (expiring+late 1st/prospect) done now if we really wanted to.
I think that deal was more CYA, because I think management thought webb's knee was done(and it basically was) and they didn't want a Completely unmovable, worthless player on their payroll a la Stephon Marbury to date getting paid an exorbitant amount to do nothing.