What's your pick today? (June 11, 2018)

[funkykingston]

Lol........ Sure.......... The standards here are consistenly absurd......There's such a severe lack of perspective..... I dare you to find clips which illustrate your theories, i bet you cant and wont.

Also just the nature people hold Mo Bamba's feet to the fire here is shameful. You act like all these players are on equal timelines. It's common knowledge that true C's take the longest to develop, and achieve maximum coordination, but that wisdom isnt applied to Mo, not here.

If Mo's the pick 95% of this forum will eat crow for years over their panicked predraft takes.

Mo Bamba and JJJ arent vertically explosive......... if DX's database was still public id demonstratejust how silly, and ignorant of historical data these claims are. Thesee players patrol the upper atmosphere.

Here you go:

Jaren Jackson not able to elevate and finish:

And again:

Bamba being blocked by the rim:

Just after that James talks about another thing I've noticed with Bamba. Most of the time he doesn't really elevate on alley oops. He kind of guides the ball in using his length. Yes, Bamba can jump. After all, there's visual evidence of him getting THIS HIGH. But from a standstill he's not quick off the ground nor does he jump high. He's not vertically explosive when flat footed the way, say, Bagley is. But with a step or two? He elevates.

Jackson isn't explosive as a leaper either from a standstill or with momentum. He doesn't have to be with a 7'5" reach and great fundamentals.

I like Jackson and Bamba. These are observations about components of a prospect's game, not "panicked pre-draft takes" or a "severe lack of perspective".

I love Luka Doncic. He lacks lateral quickness. I'm not going to get upset if someone points that out.

I love Marvin Bagley. He is not a rim protector. I don't flip out when people mention that.

 

[hrdboild]

Here's what really bothers me about Porter and Bagley being the names most often associated with the Kings -- they're both skinny finesse players who are going to get pushed around as soon as they go up against NBA athletes. We're loaded up on skinny finesse players already, who is bringing the toughness? Remember that one year we had Bonzi Wells and Ron Artest and we out-bullied the Spurs with Glass-Knees Rahim and Brad Miller as our non-existent frontcourt? I wish I could go back to an alternate history where we built the team around those two.

Also, there's no way Bagley can play SF. I recall some past Kings draft picks being hyped as guys who could "play some SF" coming out of the draft as well because they had decent ball skills and fluid athleticism: Jason Thompson and Thomas Robinson. Nope and nope. Bagley is a PF which in today's NBA means he's a PF/C. There are going to be long stretches where the Kings would play him as the only big on the floor. Most NBA veterans can play "up" a position as they get stronger and find ways to substitute savvy for size. There are very few examples of players moving "down" a position as they mature (other than deciding to call Simmons or Giannis or James Harden a PG because they're handling the ball more). I don't even see how Bagley can guard NBA wings right now. Sure he's got hops but even guards bullied him near the basket at Duke. His reaction time off switches is atrocious. People are talking about Ayton as a defensive liability but Ayton was twice the defender that Bagley was this year, why does Bagley get a pass?

At the start of the season I had Ayton #1 and Bagley #2. Ayton got pushed down to 2 as I watched more of Luka Doncic's games but I'm still very high on him. Bagley has moved all the way down to 7 or maybe even 9. He seems like a great kid, I like his attitude and it's certainly encouraging that he has good things to say about Sacramento. But I'm worried that he's never going to be a good defender and as a PF/C that means we've either got to compromise by playing two bigs at a time where every other team is only playing one or we're just going to have to outscore everybody. This is all too familiar. We've been the no-defense poster boys of the league for decades. Literally decades. So of course we're looking long and hard at Porter and Bagley because that's apparently where we belong. It's the Kangziest move we could make. I'd really rather we tried something different though.

I fall in love with Mikal Bridges defense. And I also love his offense and attitude. Please tak a look, DC to KL level of defense, not just individual defense but very active and smart team defense. That boy is complete package: Pressure made a Diamond

I would be so much happier with Mikal Bridges than Michael Porter or even Marvin Bagley. Worst-case you're getting a good 3 and D wing role-player and the way the league is going, those guys are becoming the most valuable players on the floor. If his name was being floated around as a possibility for us at 2 I would feel much better about this draft because it would at least indicate that our front office is interested in the right kind of player. How ironic would it be if moving up in the draft lottery actually ends up making us worse because we're in range to make a bad decision now partly because we need to "shoot for the stars" at #2 and partly because we just have more options available to us (some of which are bad)? Maybe this is why the history of the #2 pick is surprisingly poor?

If you want to think outside the box, let's pretend this isn't a two player draft for a minute, why aren't the two college wings who've shown plus potential on both sides of the ball being talked about as real possibilities for us? Miles Bridges doesn't tower over other wings and he doesn't dance around the perimeter popping fadeaways but he's an absolute bulldog who's hard for anyone to stop when he's got a full head of steam. He went head to head against Josh Jackson in the tournament last year and more than held his own on both ends. Jaren Jackson and Mo Bamba at least offer the possibility of physical intimidation down the line. And for all the talk about Doncic's lack of athleticism, he's got a solid lower body and he's not afraid to get into people. He's no pushover and he's got the size to defend at either SF or PF.

I was so happy when we got the #2 pick because the top 2 prospects this year -- Ayton and Doncic -- are both guaranteed franchise guys in my mind. And beyond that there's at least 6 other guys here who I would love to have -- both of the Bridges, Bamba, Jackson, Carter, Sexton. If we come out of it with Bagley or Porter I'm going to just write this team off for the foreseeable future. I guess we can try to be Golden State light and just say screw it, we're going to run and we're going to shoot and we're going to overwhelm people. Pretty unlikely a Draymond Green falls into our lap but who knows. Maybe Giles is all that he's being hyped up as. I wish I could share the enthusiasm for Porter or Bagley but I just do not see it at all.

 

[funkykingston]

People are talking about Ayton as a defensive liability but Ayton was twice the defender that Bagley was this year, why does Bagley get a pass?

I obviously have Bagley much higher than you and I'm also not high on Mikal Bridges but other than that I agree with most of what you posted.

As for the one part that I quoted, I don't necessarily give Bagley a pass on poor defense. His decision making and rotations were terrible at times and he doesn't protect the rim. I was honestly surprised at how often he made bad reads in a ZONE defense.

But (and maybe this is just me talking myself into him as a prospect because he's a likely candidate at #2) what I did see was that his on ball defense was generally pretty good. He sits in a stance, he slides well, he may have even blocked more shots as an on ball defender than as a weak side help defender. If he's dedicated and even if he doesn't have natural instincts, he can learn to be a good team defender and improve on his rotations. And if he's a 4 he'll be guarding on the wing more often so on ball defense is more important and shotblocking less so.

Who knows?

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Word is that at a Grizzlies MVP Season Ticket holder meeting they told the fans to expect Ayton-Doncic one two. Just because media is reporting one thing or another doesn't mean it's true.

Also all of the Kings aren't working out 5-6-7-8 level players also means little if they know that Doncic is their guy and are just identifying a backup plan. If they want a SF a lot of these alternate prospects are not SFs.

 

[Joshoua]

Word is that at a Grizzlies MVP Season Ticket holder meeting they told the fans to expect Ayton-Doncic one two. Just because media is reporting one thing or another doesn't mean it's true.

Also all of the Kings aren't working out 5-6-7-8 level players also means little if they know that Doncic is their guy and are just identifying a backup plan. If they want a SF a lot of these alternate prospects are not SFs.

The more open and unpredictable the draft looks the more the media will win so they pump fake news out. Doncic/Ayton was always gonna happen

 

[Sac.Kings]

Based on this poll I think 95% of fans are going to be disappointed when we draft Marvin Bagley. Bagley is going to be the pick. I think fans have been thinking about this wrong. I have been guilty of this to a degree, in a different way, though. I've had Bagley pegged at #2 the whole time. This is what I think I missed and fans missed. I had an epiphany, or maybe just going down another rabbit hole between now and June 21.

The presumption is if the Suns don't take Ayton we will take him. I don't think that is the safest presumption. I'd take him but that is besides the point. The Boogie Experience left scars. The GM does not want a repeat of that ordeal. The Kings hitched their wagon to a guy who said he was team-first then acted in opposite manner. Avoiding a repeat of this type of prima donna necessitates meeting these guys looking them in the eye and knowing they can be part of the family. You have to suss them out, know they will fit culture, put team and effort over touches. Ayton does not want to come to town? Fine, you are off the list. Have a nice career somewhere else.

Here's where I have adjusted my thought process by trying to get into the mind of the decision makers. The Kings are considering Luka and Porter in the unlikely event the Suns take Bagley. The Kings are formulating a Plan B in the event that Plan A goes up in smoke. Of course ultimately we don't need to a Plan B. Plan A will be activated June 21. The Suns are taking Ayton. And we are taking Bagley. Book it:

• Bagley - combo forward
• Porter - combo forward
• Luka - combo forward

This is a slightly new way to look at these players. Who says Bagley is a center? He weighs 220 lbs. He is light on his feet. He has handles. He has a Euro Step. He can rebound and go. He has nice shot mechanics. He has a jab step, spin move and lethal first step. He can hang as a defender on the perimeter more than the paint to whom he will give up 20-30 pounds. It is a false premise to label this guy a center then discount him because his defensive ability as a center is dubious. This is where fans and draft previews are wrong. By contrast I think Giles is more suited to being a banger in the paint. He's stronger, longer and I think 20-30 pounds heavier.

If you view Bagley correctly as a combo forward with more of a perimeter game than displayed at Duke, you see how he will fit perfectly with our three man core of Fox, Buddy and Boggy. When I think of combo forwards, Tobias Harris, Jeff Green, Danillo Gallinari and Dirk Nowitski come to mind. I am not saying Bagley has their game, or even that their talents are similar. I am talking about their physical profile and mobility about the floor. If you mischaracterize Bagley with guys like KAT and Marc Gasol, it is easy to sour on him as a prospect.

There are a few other points I want to touch on. The bottom line is I now view Luka and Porter as contingents in the event Bagley goes #1, since Ayton is not a viable proposition, despite his immense talent. Ultimately indulging in these scenarios is irrelevant since Ayton will go #1 and we will secure our top target. I do not have confidence in the primary decision maker. He's a joke. But we have enough guys around him I respect like Brandon Williams and Elston Turner and Bobby Jackson. There is enough smart basketball minds in the room to do the smart thing. This is where I was previously wavering but come to my sense. It doesn't take a genius to get this right. The smart move is Bagley and always has been. The team will make the smart move. Set aside the hype and noise, and this is easy to see.

Do give us other fans some more credit my friend. I'm high on Bagley as well so I don't think 95 percent of us would be disappointed. It's just that most of us have other favorites but a lot of people here have stated repeatedly that they would not be disappointed with Bagley. Dude averaged 21-11 in the ACC, how can we possibly be disappointed with that?

I think the bigger issue is we don't really know what kind of roster we are going for. Vlade has said positionless and all that but Joerger continues his old and tried ways. There's some discrepancies there and if we knew for sure what direction we are going in style wise, we would be able to narrow it down easier to what prospect we liked best.

To me, Bagley did not demonstrate enough perimeter skills in college to be considered for a stretch 4 or the SF slot. I've never been a fan of making a player fit into a role, but thats just my opinion. I'd always draft the guy who clearly has a position and role to play, if talent is equal or close to equal.

 

[jcwkings]

Porter cannot play SF, way too stiff laterally. Problem is he is also way too skinny and soft to play the 4. He has super high bust potential imo. No way you can pick such a question mark at #2 when you have proven players in Doncic or Bagley.

 

[Blob]

Do give us other fans some more credit my friend. I'm high on Bagley as well so I don't think 95 percent of us would be disappointed. It's just that most of us have other favorites but a lot of people here have stated repeatedly that they would not be disappointed with Bagley. Dude averaged 21-11 in the ACC, how can we possibly be disappointed with that?

So far there's only 7 out of 115 votes for Bagley for "Who do you want at #2?" Thats 94% who don't want Bagley as their first choice. You may be right most fans won't be disappointed when we do select Bagley, especially with Porter's name being floated around, but I think a large percentage of fans will be disappointed when Luka's name is not called.

 

[206Fan]

So far there's only 7 out of 115 votes for Bagley for "Who do you want at #2?" Thats 94% who don't want Bagley as their first choice. You may be right most fans won't be disappointed when we do select Bagley, especially with Porter's name being floated around, but I think a large percentage of fans will be disappointed when Luka's name is not called.

Yeah if you go onto other fan forums, reddit, and twitter, they will all freak out if Doncic isn't the pick. Here? Not so much imo. People are more open minded.

At this point idc too much about fan perception and neither should the FO. Trust their gut and draft the player who they think can bring us to the promise land. They did pretty good last year with Fox..

 

[ESP47]

Yeah if you go onto other fan forums, reddit, and twitter, they will all freak out if Doncic isn't the pick. Here? Not so much imo. People are more open minded.

At this point idc too much about fan perception and neither should the FO. Trust their gut and draft the player who they think can bring us to the promise land. They did pretty good last year with Fox..

I'll be complaining if it's Porter. I can't find any evidence of him playing well against good players in non exhibition games. I think this is a guy who has impressed people so much by making highly difficult shots that they wound up forgetting that he only shot 30 something percent overall. A few good plays can make you forget about a handful of missed buckets and terrible shots.

 

[jiimbob]

Yeah Bagley or Donic, I won't be dissapointed either way. I like several players but these two appear the safest bet. I recon both fans and the FO can live or die with them.
This is a critical draft for Vlade compounded by the fact its a #2 in a percieved deep draft. One or more teams picking after the Kings will claim the steal of the draft. I want Vlade to suceed here, he is a decent guy and loves Sacramento. I'm leaning Donic but it was sure nice Bagley payed a visit and says he loves Sac too.

 

[Sac.Kings]

So far there's only 7 out of 115 votes for Bagley for "Who do you want at #2?" Thats 94% who don't want Bagley as their first choice. You may be right most fans won't be disappointed when we do select Bagley, especially with Porter's name being floated around, but I think a large percentage of fans will be disappointed when Luka's name is not called.

There's bound to be disappointment in some way shape or form. Thus is life.

We have the ability to pick a really good player. I hope that the Kings have done their homework and pick who they think is best. Nothing fancy, use it on who you see fit and scram. I don't want to trade down, this isn't the draft to do that.

 

[burekijogurt]

...And for all the talk about Doncic's lack of athleticism, he's got a solid lower body and he's not afraid to get into people. He's no pushover and he's got the size to defend at either SF or PF....

yeah, Luka looks like a mesomorph and I think he will have little trouble packing muscle on, especially in the lower body. when you watch him take contact when driving he is very sturdy, there is mass there, people sometimes bounce off of him. I think this will translate and he will be able to draw fouls when driving. even though he lacks a bit in athleticism and length he will be a physical presence once he fills out even more...

 

[VF21]

Lol........ Sure.......... The standards here are consistenly absurd......There's such a severe lack of perspective..... I dare you to find clips which illustrate your theories, i bet you cant and wont.

Also just the nature people hold Mo Bamba's feet to the fire here is shameful. You act like all these players are on equal timelines. It's common knowledge that true C's take the longest to develop, and achieve maximum coordination, but that wisdom isnt applied to Mo, not here.

If Mo's the pick 95% of this forum will eat crow for years over their panicked predraft takes.

Mo Bamba and JJJ arent vertically explosive......... if DX's database was still public id demonstratejust how silly, and ignorant of historical data these claims are. Thesee players patrol the upper atmosphere.

Consistently absurd ...

lack of perspective...

shameful...

If you have so many problems with this forum, I'll see if I can find the gatekeeper to let you out.

Dude...seriously. Your opinion is just as good/bad as anyone else's. There's no need to continually act as though we're all ignorant buffoons and you're the only one with true insight.

You obviously have a lot of knowledge of basketball and the NBA. You're welcome to share it - just tone down the attitude. Thanks.

 

[VF21]

Do give us other fans some more credit my friend. I'm high on Bagley as well so I don't think 95 percent of us would be disappointed. It's just that most of us have other favorites but a lot of people here have stated repeatedly that they would not be disappointed with Bagley. Dude averaged 21-11 in the ACC, how can we possibly be disappointed with that?

I think the bigger issue is we don't really know what kind of roster we are going for. Vlade has said positionless and all that but Joerger continues his old and tried ways. There's some discrepancies there and if we knew for sure what direction we are going in style wise, we would be able to narrow it down easier to what prospect we liked best.

To me, Bagley did not demonstrate enough perimeter skills in college to be considered for a stretch 4 or the SF slot. I've never been a fan of making a player fit into a role, but thats just my opinion. I'd always draft the guy who clearly has a position and role to play, if talent is equal or close to equal.

Hear, hear.

 

[King Baller]

yeah, Luka looks like a mesomorph and I think he will have little trouble packing muscle on, especially in the lower body. when you watch him take contact when driving he is very sturdy, there is mass there, people sometimes bounce off of him. I think this will translate and he will be able to draw fouls when driving. even though he lacks a bit in athleticism and length he will be a physical presence once he fills out even more...

I think when Doncic hits the NBA his size is going to be one of the surprises.

 

[Sactown ExPat]

yeah, Luka looks like a mesomorph and I think he will have little trouble packing muscle on, especially in the lower body. when you watch him take contact when driving he is very sturdy, there is mass there, people sometimes bounce off of him. I think this will translate and he will be able to draw fouls when driving. even though he lacks a bit in athleticism and length he will be a physical presence once he fills out even more...

Preach it. People are so busy knocking his athleticism right now that they can’t see what a beast this kid is going to be at 23. With any dedication in the weight room, Luka is going to play at a muscled up 235, 6’8”—with a handle to get anywhere on the floor and the same vision he’s already displayed. No 4 will be able to stay in front of him and no 2/3 will be able to body him. He’s just going to implode defenses.

 

[VF21]

New poll thread pending.