K
KingMilz
Guest
A starting PG who is a decent two way player is now the biggest area of concern for me
What Realistically can be done to improve?
- Thread starter Jerichoholic
- Start date
Fortunately, those grow on trees, so we should be set next year.
Oh, wait...
Oh, wait...
bajaden
Hall of Famer
While this is the 8th season for you and I, and the rest of the forum, its the first season for new ownership, and like it or not, that's how you have to look at it. They're not responsible for the mistakes made prior to their taking over.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
Give me your best shot: where would Pervis Ellison be drafted in this up coming draft? Or Joe Kleine?It's not a silly question as I think it will give a clearer view of what this upcoming draft is like.
Joe Kleine would in all likelyhood be a 2nd round pick in this coming draft. Ellison at best would go in the bottom half of the first round, possibly in the top of the 2nd round. Now that's just my opinion, but I don't think I'm far off. Of course I have the advantage of knowing the outcome of both careers.
Glenn
Hall of Famer
Give me your best shot: where would Pervis Ellison be drafted in this up coming draft? Or Joe Kleine?
Drop Kleine from the list. Never Nervous Pervis was the #1 pick of the draft and we got him. I remember a debate about whether we should draft him or Sean Elliot and we passed on Elliot because he wore something to support his knees and we figured he had knee problems. Turns out Pervis became Out of Service Pervis and played about half of his rookie year. Of course we then traded him. His career was filled with injuries and if I remember correctly, Elliots was not filled with injuries. Ellison was supposed to be very good which may have had as much to with the success of his college team as anything.
I don't know when he would have been picked this year. I think he was a senior so the comparison to this year would be difficult. Anyway I would take a wild shot and say he might be drafted between 10-20 this year. He seemed like an athletic tall guy although I think only 6'9". Maybe he would have gone higher but let's remember he finished his senior year and we are comparing him to guys who will play one year and that's it.
He isn't remembered because he really didn't play here and never became a star in the NBA. And that was the NBA's #1 pick for us. Poof! This year will be very different. The #1 pick could very well be a top 25 of all time. That's a huge guess as a lot will happen in the next 15 or so years.
We.Are.Due!!
Glenn
Hall of Famer
Same here.
Kleine's big success was coming off the bench for the Celtics. Kleine was the JT for the Celtics.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
I think most people would say that Lebron James, Carmelo Anthony, and Dwayne Wade were all franchise changers. You personally may not like one of those players, but regardless, all three of those players had a serious impact on their franchise. One could even argue that Chris Bosh was an impact player for Toronto. And just so you know, I'm not advocating tanking, but because of the depth of his draft, I can at least find something to be optimistic about when we lose. So every time we play, I'm cheering for the team to win, right up until they don't. At that point, the idea of possibly drafting one of the top players in the coming draft makes the loss more palatable.
My personal reasons for watching these players is so that I don't have to rely on a bunch of air head pundits that don't know what their talking about. And, if necessary, to dispel any misinformation about a player. And believe me, there's quite a bit. I don't have a problem with you not being interested in college ball, or the draft until its almost draft time. And I know you frown on anyone that thinks we should tank the season. Well, with the talent we have, we don't have to intentionally tank anything. It will just be a natural process with our current talent level. To be honest, the worse possible thing we could do is just make the playoffs. What would it accomplish? We'd go out in the first round, and we'd lose our 1st round pick. We have little in the way of assets to trade for anything of value, and we have next to no capspace. Which means we would be looking at the exact same talent level next season as well. But we'd have our honor, and we could continue to b---h about management not doing anything to improve the team.
By the way, that 4th pick in the draft netted us Tyreke Evans. And the next year, the 5th pick in the draft netted us DeMarcus Cousins. Yes, I realize that we no longer have Evans, but that doesn't diminish his talent, or value. And Cousins is the best player on this team, and we got him through the draft. Unfortunately, after that, we had our head up our butts.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Maybe we should just answer this: move to the Eastern Conference.
A few ridiculous notes:
12 Western Conference teams have winning records, and 4 teams in the West have losing records. 2 of those 4 are in the playoff hunt. Only Sac and Utah are left out.
Only 3 Eastern Conference teams have winning records. THREE. One more has a .500 record. 11 teams have losing records. All 5 teams in the Atlantic division are sub-.500. Toronto is 6-9 and leading the division over 7-11 Boston and 6-11 Philly, who were supposed to be tanking, and 4-12 Brooklyn and 3-12 New York, who were not.
As a direct result of playing in the West the Kings have:
Played 12 games against +.500 opponents.
Played 2 games against sub.500 opponents (Brooklyn and Detroit).
Perhaps not surprisingly our 3 victories after the home opener were against Phoenix without their best player, and one of the sub .500 teams (Brooklyn). Put us in the Atlantic Division though and I think we have a chance to be the best team in the division and get homecourt in the first round of the playoffs. Literally.
A few ridiculous notes:
12 Western Conference teams have winning records, and 4 teams in the West have losing records. 2 of those 4 are in the playoff hunt. Only Sac and Utah are left out.
Only 3 Eastern Conference teams have winning records. THREE. One more has a .500 record. 11 teams have losing records. All 5 teams in the Atlantic division are sub-.500. Toronto is 6-9 and leading the division over 7-11 Boston and 6-11 Philly, who were supposed to be tanking, and 4-12 Brooklyn and 3-12 New York, who were not.
As a direct result of playing in the West the Kings have:
Played 12 games against +.500 opponents.
Played 2 games against sub.500 opponents (Brooklyn and Detroit).
Perhaps not surprisingly our 3 victories after the home opener were against Phoenix without their best player, and one of the sub .500 teams (Brooklyn). Put us in the Atlantic Division though and I think we have a chance to be the best team in the division and get homecourt in the first round of the playoffs. Literally.
:: shrugs ::
Well, I will say this much: if you think that this refutes my argument in any meaningful way, then I will concede that I may have failed in properly articulating my argument.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
I'm not refuting your argument. I have no problem with how you feel about the draft or tanking. I'm just giving you my opinion. Take it or leave it. Which is what I do with yours. You want to circle the wagons, then have at it.
With all due respect, bajaden, you often tend to have a lot to say for someone who can take another's opinion or leave it. One would think, in that circumstance, that the Reader's Digest version would work just as well. 
bajaden
Hall of Famer
With all due respect, bajaden, you often tend to have a lot to say for someone who can take another's opinion or leave it. One would think, in that circumstance, that the Reader's Digest version would work just as well.
I do tend to get long winded. Sometimes, my replies end up having nothing to do with posting a response, but become more of a platform for me to expound on my favorite subject. With that, I'll retreat to the projects forum... Unless of course, I see another opportunity..
C
Cold
Guest
too bad theres no award for winning 35 games. planning for the future is intelligent. saying we will worry about the draft when the draft comes is ridiculously dumb. glad ur not running my company.
C
Cold
Guest
the same people who say they rather win 35 games now instead of drafting parker wiggins randle will be the same people jumping up and down in the crowd when one of those kids is a king and the kings are winning. reminds me of those silly warriors fans who booed the warriors for trading monta and tanking. the same people are now riding harrison barnes' jock and barnes is nowhere near the talent parker wiggins randle are.
those warriors were 2 games out of 8th place when they blew it up. now thats balls and vision.
those warriors were 2 games out of 8th place when they blew it up. now thats balls and vision.
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Trueblood
Bench
And that wasn't even a tank move. The constantly complained about being too small in the backcourt and not having a true center. With that move, they killed 2 birds with one stone. They got their center and it opened up a starting spot for 6'7" Thompson at the 2G spot. The fans booing Lacob apparently have short memories and don't remember how bad Cohan was as owner of the Warriors.
People are entitled to their opinions. Just because it doesn't agree with yours doesn't make it - or them - ridiculously dumb.
C
Cold
Guest
entitled doesn't mean it's not dumb. the person is not dumb. but the mindset is.
That's your opinion. You can evaluate a post without resorting to the snide putdowns, which is the point you're obviously missing that I've obviously done a poor job of trying to relate.
Bosnian Diehard
Starter
In 2003, there four fgranchise-changers. LeBron james compeletely changed Cleveland and made them title-contenders, Dwayne Wade helped lead his team to a title and kept them as a power without Shaq after that, Carmelo Anthony brought Denver back to being a force to be reckoned with and led New York to their first playoff win/Conference Semifinals appearance for a long time, and Chris Bosh lead his team to the playoffs, which they probably wouldn't sniff without him. Two/three superstars and one star from that draft. LeBron is a 9-time All-Star, Dwayne Wade is a 9-time All-Star, Bosh is an 8-time All-Star, and Carmelo is a 6-time All-Star. Now I don't know about you, but if I was a franchise that was struggling for years leading up to a draft with that kind of talent, I would do the best I can to prepare for the future (develop young talent/bring in players that can help change culture/trade players with no future here) and get a high pick in that kind of draft.
Kingster
Hall of Famer
This is why I like being in the Western Conference - more ping pong balls, all other things being equal .
You cannot be serious. You think that Chris Bosh was a franchise-changer in Toronto? They made the playoffs twice in the seven years he was there, and never got out of the first round... hell, they went further than that, just two seasons before he got there: they were, literally, a missed jumper away from the Eastern Conference Finals in 2001, and they made it back to the playoffs in 2002, then Vince Carter got hurt, and they got Chris Bosh in 2003. And, during Bosh's first three years in Toronto, they didn't sniff the playoffs. Yeah, he sure changed the hell out of that franchise.
Carmelo Anthony's entire legacy is empty numbers. All of the pro-tanking people talk about going all-in for a guy who can help be the cornerstone of a championship contender, instead of trying to win now, and be a perennial "first round and out" team. Well, if your ambition is to be a FRAO team, then Anthony is definitely the man to call. If he's a franchise-changer, then I guess that Gilbert Arenas is, too. Brought Denver back to "being a force to be reckoned with"? That's rich. They were about as much a force to be reckoned with as the Atlanta Hawks, except the Hawks are actually good for at least two wins at home.
James and Wade were the only two "franchise changers" to come out of that draft. Now, Denver did sell a bunch of #15 jerseys when Anthony was playing there, so I guess they had that going for them, but it's an insult to even put him in the same conversation, let alone the same category.
Bosnian Diehard
Starter
Yeah but how good was his supporting cast? Garbajosa, Bargnani, etc. but not good enough to help him a lot. Do yout think they'd have made the Play-Offs without Bosh? He made them a contender for the Play-Offs, not his fault they could not bring much help there in rterms of a supporting cast.
Carmelo is a pure all-star. Sure his defense is terrible, but he is a complete monster on offense with a plethora of ways to score. Teams have a hard time stopping him, plain and simple.
- You might want to double-check those rosters: Bosh played with many/most of the same players those first three years that Carter led to the second round. In fact, you could make the argument that he had a better squad, with the addition of Jalen Rose, and factor in the fact that he was playing with Vince Carter. Humorously enough, he didn't make the playoffs until he got Garbajosa and Bargnani.
- All-Star =/= franchise changer. If that were the standard, then you would also have to call Amar'e Stoudemire (who has the same number of All-Star appearances) a franchise changer, and nobody would call Amar'e Stoudemire a franchise changer.
Bosnian Diehard
Starter
For me, I consider superstars players that can be the main and lead his team to a title/Finals appearance/Conf. Finals appearance (LeBron, DWade) and an All-Star is someone who can lead his team to the Play-Offs (Carmelo, Bosh). So that's why I listed as I did in my original post.
Like I said, if you count Anthony, then you have to count Stoudemire. And, if you count Stoudemire, then I have to consider your judgment suspect. And Bosh didn't really even "lead" his team to the playoffs.
Bosnian Diehard
Starter
I dunno, Bosh had a really good season in 06-07, he averaged 22/11 in the first half of that season and 22/10 in the second half along with being named to All-NBA Second Team that year.
But I agree, Stoudemire is not a franchise changer, maybe, just maybe, he could be considered before the surgury, but not now - not at all.
That's your criteria? Well, hell, by that standard, then Antawn Jamison is a "franchise changer," too.
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