Well, see you in a different uniform next season IT

Hadlowe

Hadlowe

Starter
#31
#31
John Galt said:
who is gonna be the new Pizza guy I wonder.

I can see why some people don't see IT as starting PG on a contender, but damn - he was one of very few guys on the team who could put the freaking ball in the freaking hole. I wish he got a little more balanced evaluation on here. He's easy to hate on but if I were in his shoes I'd be looking to get PAID right now, and its not like leaving Sacramento is a heartbreaking kind of personal thing to go through.

I really really wish him well if he leaves, and I'm fine if the Kings pay him too. ($8M X 3)
Click to expand...
The problem most people had was the lack of offensive rhythm. IT played selfish quite a bit, and that's bad when you have talents like Cousins and Gay on the floor at the same time. I personally attribute some of that to Coach Malone, who is a very good coach, but his offensive sets are weak and stagnant, and the Kings offense was based mostly on the talent of its players rather than the play of the team.

There aren't many teams out there looking for a starting point guard right now. Indiana, Milwaukee, New York, Orlando, Lakers and really nobody else. Some of those are toss-ups and aren't going to aggressively pursue a 5'9" defensive liability at the point, and especially not long-term for more than MLE.

You also have to figure that IT comes in third in the free agent sweepstakes at his position. Bledsoe and Lowry are going to get money thrown at them and IT will be a consolation prize after that.

Now, if teams are going to pay him as a sixth man there will be a few more suitors, but most teams don't want to pay a 25 minute bench guy more than the MLE, especially with the new CBA. I will be surprised if he gets more than 5 million per year.
 
rainmaker

rainmaker

Hall of Famer
#32
#32
King Baller said:
Where does IT fit in those Salary numbers? Depends on how you rate IT's game. I like Lowry or Teague as starters over IT. As a sixth man IT is right in there with Crawford or Monta. I think Crawford has them by a hair due to his Clutchness:)
Click to expand...
Monta isn't a 6th man. Jamal is obviously and is about to win his 2nd 6th man of the year award. Probably the best 6th man in the league recently, outside Manu, and he got roughly 5M per. JR Smith, another proven 6th man got 5.5-6M. Nate Robinson, another bench spark got about 2M. Barea, yet another bench spark turned his Dallas Finals run into a a roughly 4.5M per year deal.

Evidence suggests IT's value will be somewhere between Nate at 2M and the others making 5-6M. That IT has never been on a winning team or done anything in the playoffs, as the others have, will weigh against him.
 
M

mac

All-Star
#33
#33
rainmaker said:
Monta isn't a 6th man. Jamal is obviously and is about to win his 2nd 6th man of the year award. Probably the best 6th man in the league recently, outside Manu, and he got roughly 5M per. JR Smith, another proven 6th man got 5.5-6M. Nate Robinson, another bench spark got about 2M. Barea, yet another bench spark turned his Dallas Finals run into a a roughly 4.5M per year deal.

Evidence suggests IT's value will be somewhere between Nate at 2M and the others making 5-6M. That IT has never been on a winning team or done anything in the playoffs, as the others have, will weigh against him.
Click to expand...
On the other hand ... I'm perfectly fine with someone throwing a massive contract at him and us not matching. Both IT and I walk away happy.
 
HereWeBoogie

HereWeBoogie

Hall of Famer
#34
#34
King Baller said:
So here are some salary comparisons in round numbers:
Jamal Crawford - 5.2 Mil
Kyle Lowry - 6.2 Mil
Monta Ellis - 8 - Mil
Jeff Teague - 8 - Mil

Where does IT fit in those Salary numbers? Depends on how you rate IT's game. I like Lowry or Teague as starters over IT. As a sixth man IT is right in there with Crawford or Monta. I think Crawford has them by a hair due to his Clutchness:)

Here are the PG Free Agents, IT is rated #3 by Hoopshype: http://hoopshype.com/free_agency/point_guards_2014.htm
Click to expand...
i would be ecstatic if we got Lowry or Teague
 
Capt. Factorial

Capt. Factorial

trifolium contra tempestatem subrigere certum est
Staff member
#37
#37
Dime Dropper said:
it's no surprise that Bruski thinks IT should get 11-12 mil per. He's an idiot, spectacularly so when it comes to IT.
Click to expand...
rainmaker said:
I'm surprised Bruski can tie his own shoes.
Click to expand...
I'm not going to stand for this sort of categorical impugning of Bruski. I've met him, and he is emphatically not an idiot. Feel free to disagree with his opinion, feel free to claim he has an inability to be partial when it comes to IT, whatever. Don't call him stupid. He's not. And it makes you look pretty bad in my eyes for saying something like that.

I mean, if you start calling individual posters around here "stupid" instead of directing your attack towards their arguments, the mods step in. Not allowed to do it. I'm not sure why this situation should be any different.
 
S

sdballer

Starter
#38
#38
Capt. Factorial said:
I'm not going to stand for this sort of categorical impugning of Bruski. I've met him, and he is emphatically not an idiot. Feel free to disagree with his opinion, feel free to claim he has an inability to be partial when it comes to IT, whatever. Don't call him stupid. He's not. And it makes you look pretty bad in my eyes for saying something like that.

I mean, if you start calling individual posters around here "stupid" instead of directing your attack towards their arguments, the mods step in. Not allowed to do it. I'm not sure why this situation should be any different.
Click to expand...
He has idiotic opinions when it comes to IT. Better?
 
Hadlowe

Hadlowe

Starter
#39
#39
Capt. Factorial said:
I'm not going to stand for this sort of categorical impugning of Bruski. I've met him, and he is emphatically not an idiot. Feel free to disagree with his opinion, feel free to claim he has an inability to be partial when it comes to IT, whatever. Don't call him stupid. He's not. And it makes you look pretty bad in my eyes for saying something like that.

I mean, if you start calling individual posters around here "stupid" instead of directing your attack towards their arguments, the mods step in. Not allowed to do it. I'm not sure why this situation should be any different.
Click to expand...
While I agree with your sentiment, Bruski does have a MASSIVE homer blind spot when it comes to IT. During a game earlier this season when IT's man scored over 30 points, Bruski went on record as saying that only two of those buckets were because of IT's defense. He's a decent reporter in other matters, but he cannot be trusted in this area.
 
Dime Dropper

Dime Dropper

All-Star
#40
#40
Capt. Factorial said:
I'm not going to stand for this sort of categorical impugning of Bruski. I've met him, and he is emphatically not an idiot. Feel free to disagree with his opinion, feel free to claim he has an inability to be partial when it comes to IT, whatever. Don't call him stupid. He's not. And it makes you look pretty bad in my eyes for saying something like that.

I mean, if you start calling individual posters around here "stupid" instead of directing your attack towards their arguments, the mods step in. Not allowed to do it. I'm not sure why this situation should be any different.
Click to expand...
I really wasn't making a character judgement on Bruski because I obviously don't know him on a personal level. All I can judge him on is his opinions, and I stand by my comment that he absolutely is irrational and idiotic when it comes to IT. I can't comment on his other stuff because I don't read him, but he's way off on IT. Maybe a nice guy, no idea. I'll take your word for that.
 
rainmaker

rainmaker

Hall of Famer
#41
#41
Capt. Factorial said:
I'm not going to stand for this sort of categorical impugning of Bruski. I've met him, and he is emphatically not an idiot. Feel free to disagree with his opinion, feel free to claim he has an inability to be partial when it comes to IT, whatever. Don't call him stupid. He's not. And it makes you look pretty bad in my eyes for saying something like that.
Click to expand...
Until I meet the guy, which I don't see why I would, I'll judge him off his basketball related comments and how he composes himself on twitter/social media, which outside the arena situation has been embarrassing.

Opinions on here are generally about what we have to go on, how someone carries themselves publicly, or how a player carries himself on the court. Obviously, that's what I'm referring to with Bruski, not however he comes across over a cup of coffee. BTW, Bruski has said far, far worse to those who question him on twitter, so I actually have a problem with you getting bent out of shape over my comment when he's cursed and name called a number of fans on twitter. That's not objective, nor does it weigh both sides equally.

Is this better? I consider Bruski an absolute fool regarding anything aside from the arena issue, based on what he's said on and how he's used his social media accounts/platforms, under his own name. I consider Ric Bucher to be an absolute fool as well, but I'm sure those close to him would disagree. I don't care much however. I judge both and others on how the present themselves publicly, not on assumptions of their private life. If you say dumb stuff all over twitter and are an ass to people who question you, it's not my job to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're an intelligent, upright citizen in your private life.
 
Last edited:
Mr. S£im Citrus

Mr. S£im Citrus

Doryphore of KingsFans.com
Staff member
#42
#42
[Mod mode]
Capt. Factorial said:
I mean, if you start calling individual posters around here "stupid" instead of directing your attack towards their arguments, the mods step in. Not allowed to do it. I'm not sure why this situation should be any different.
Click to expand...
Because public figures are not generally considered to be entitled to the same "protection" that private posters are on this message board.

Exception: active Kings players/coaches.

[/Mod mode]
 
King Baller

King Baller

All-Star
#45
#45
mac said:
Not the way he played for the Mavs this year.
Click to expand...
I watched a lot of those Dallas games. I know he has always started. I like Monta in a sixth man role similar to Jamal Crawford. I think that is where he would be the best. I also think IT falls into the sixth man role.
 
D

dude12

Hall of Famer
#46
#46
Instead of paying IT 8 mill per year, I'd rather go with Ray at a fraction of that. I think we would be better off getting Smart in the draft or a starting PG in a trade with Ray the combo backup. I think we get the same overall production out of Ray with his ability to play defense.
 
S

SacKings2002NBAChampions

Guest
#47
#47
Lowry or Bledsoe would be a dream. Both guys are extreme team players and the latter is one of the best pg defenders in the league. However, no way either team lets those two walk. They have plenty of cap space to overpay them. It's the perfect situation for Lowry and Bledsoe. They both like their teams that are on the rise and they will get overpaid. It's really a win-win. Teams would be stupid to even bid...


IT will get 6 million MAX. That's about as far as his 6th man contract is worth.
People also forget that most teams won't want him because of his drama and lack of team play. This works if you're a young Kobe but not a 5'8 midget. Pass.

Lets hope we can draft Exum and trade useless Williams for a decent big man pick.
 
S

SacKings2002NBAChampions

Guest
#48
#48
If Malone let Ray Mac start earlier in the season we would know whether we need a starting pg or a 6th man off the bench type of pg.
 
K

KingMilz

Guest
#49
#49
With how things went in Toronto I doubt Lowry is going to come here if Rudy is here tbh I think he enjoy's being the 1/2nd option and I doubt he would want to be a 3rd option behind Cousins and Gay.

King Baller said:
Monta is a Sixth Man.........................who starts. I think he belongs on the bench.
Click to expand...
Nah no way he's a top 5 SG this season and played better than James Flop Harden in the playoffs, unless James Harden is a 6th man as well he actually fits the criteria much better since he plays zero defence, Monta at least gets in passing lanes and tries to be desruptive. But no neither are 6th man both are top notch starting SG's.
 
Mike

Mike

Bench
#50
#50
SacKings2002NBAChampions said:
If Malone let Ray Mac start earlier in the season we would know whether we need a starting pg or a 6th man off the bench type of pg.
Click to expand...
Ray Mac did show flashes that he could be a decent option in the games @Mavs, @Pelicans, and @Portland. I do think he has the ability to be a good back up/rotation PG, though I'm not sure what his ceiling will be, but he might be worth giving a go at PG next season if the team decides to move IT and target a big in the draft. We could even keep IT and use him as a 6th man, and have Ray Mac start. But it certainly would have been interesting to see how much Ray Mac would have shown had he started earlier in the season.
 
MassachusettsKingsFan

MassachusettsKingsFan

All-Star
#51
#51
I think IT is a very safe signing, so he has that going for him. Say what you want about Grant and Jerry drooling all over him, but IT does have certain intangibles that lead me to believe he will never be a complete bust. So will he get overpaid? possibly, but I don't think he'll ever end up useless. He won't be dead money.

That being said, I wouldn't go past 8 million per. I don't think he'll have that many suitors in that range anyway.
 
Big Cuz 15

Big Cuz 15

All-Star
#52
#52
MassachusettsKingsFan said:
I think IT is a very safe signing, so he has that going for him. Say what you want about Grant and Jerry drooling all over him, but IT does have certain intangibles that lead me to believe he will never be a complete bust. So will he get overpaid? possibly, but I don't think he'll ever end up useless. He won't be dead money.

That being said, I wouldn't go past 8 million per. I don't think he'll have that many suitors in that range anyway.
Click to expand...
8 mill per is in landry contract territory. double no thanks. 5'7 PG only good at scoring? the other guy who suggested tyreke $$ at IT... lunacy. hope the lakers offer him 8-12m so he can deliver pizzas in so-cal.
 
Gary

Gary

All-Star
#55
#55
Meh.. keep IT at 6mil, let him go anything above... Not that tough.. Ray Mac is not a suitable starter in IT's place so we would have to draft or sign a PG.
 
kupman

kupman

Starter
#56
#56
I would do 8-9/year for IT. I think he is that good - especially given that he is only 3 years into the league. I think that he will get better with time.

Plus, if IT leaves we may have the poorest back court in the history of the NBA. I don't think that we can let the only good guard that we have leave with the hope and the dream that one of the rookies from this year will pan-out as a starter or some guy like Smart will walk into the league and immediately be a decent starter.
 
funkykingston

funkykingston

Super Moderator
Staff member
#57
#57
Big Cuz 15 said:
8 mill per is in landry contract territory. double no thanks. 5'7 PG only good at scoring? the other guy who suggested tyreke $$ at IT... lunacy. hope the lakers offer him 8-12m so he can deliver pizzas in so-cal.
Click to expand...
MassachusettsKingsFan said:
That is an indictment on the Landry contract, though. If Landry is actually worth 8 million, Thomas is worth 16.
Click to expand...
Kingster said:
...and an indictment of the JT and the Thornton contracts prior? There sure a lot of indictments going on around here... :)
Click to expand...
Some fuzzy math here. Landry's contract, while horrible, never broaches $7,000,000 as it is $6,750,000 for four years.

Thompson's contract started off in the $5 million range. He made $5.6 million this year, will make about $6 million next year, $6.4 million the year after that and $6.8 million in his final year. He was also a starter for the Kings when he signed that deal. And still, for a third big off the bench who can play the PF and C and is the team's best individual post defender I think that's a reasonable deal that gets a bit high at the very end. For reference I think that would be a solid deal to offer IT as well and I'd similarly feel that it's overpaying in the final year or two but still equitable for both sides.

As for Thornton, we know he was overpaid and the indictment there was obvious when he was dangled as trade bait and only found a taker in Brooklyn who only offered Jason Terry's dead weight contract and a decent role player in Reggie Evans. If Thornton were living up to his contract he would have at least been the 20 ppg scorer he fooled the front office into thinking he'd consistently be.

How many players on the Kings have contracts in line with their production?

IT has certainly outplayed his contract. Cousins has outplayed his rookie deal but it remains to be seen if he'll take that next step to justify his huge contract. My guess (based on his career arc this far and the general development curve of bigs) is that he mostly likely will, barring injury.

Derrick Williams, Travis Outlaw, Rudy Gay and certainly Landry can't be said to have brought value to the team in line with their paycheck. Some would argue JT hasn't either. Certainly Jason Terry didn't give either Brooklyn or Sacramento $5 million worth of play this season.

Reggie Evans certainly gave production at least in line with his deal. McLemore? Hard to say there. Ray McCallum? Certainly showed flashes of being more productive than his 2nd round pick salary would indicate.

And yet, only two of those contracts were negotiated by PDA - Cousins and Landry. Whether or not any other players are paid appropriately is not germane to the discussion of what the Kings are willing to pay IT or at what number they'll let him walk.
 
P

Prog

Bench
#59
#59
Is there any precedent of a free agent coming from a PER 20 season not signing a contract for 9m or more a year? I think enough GMs will be blinded by IT's offensive prowess to factor him in as the defensive liability that he is (while still probably being better on D than this Max-contract player).

Personally, I'm fine letting him walk in a sign & trade. He's just not suitable for the type of basketball that I like watching (think Spurs-like, with lots of ball movement and solid D by everyone).
 
You must log in or register to reply here.