VSL Game 1 Thread - Kings vs. Pistons

[SacTownGrantFan]

I have no problem with summer league itself. The thing that boggles my mind is the futility of trying to convince people of its relative unimportance in the grand scheme of things. Thanks for the reminder from last year.

Come on, we are reminded of this all the time. Might as well make peace with it.

 

[OnYouLikeGlue]

What stood out to me about Evans' penetration was that he likes to dish to guys around the basket rather than kick to the perimeter. Whether that was a function of the personnel we had on the floor today (not a particularly good shooting team) or just his style, I can't say.

Certainly with Martin-Garcia-Nocioni (and to a lesser extent, Hawes) around I'd like to see some passes moving inside-out, but it's encouraging that he's not intent on taking the shot himself every trip, and getting the big guys the ball in scoring position.
~~

Why would he kick it to the perimeter when there is a guy open for a layup or a five footer?

 

[OnYouLikeGlue]

That wasn't panic. However, I do expect to see 100% effort out there, even in Summer League Game 1.

The Kings outrebounded the Pistons, does it really matter who gets them as long as its someone on the Kings? If he's boxing someone out and allows someone else to swoop in for the board isn't that what we want? Seems silly to question his effort because he only had three boards.

 

[Prince_XY]

When you have 1 starter from last year and 3 players who should get a lot of time next year get blown out by the other teams draft picks and scrubs there is cause to worry.

To me, this is nothing to worry about. That one starter player from last year had already shown last season, that he can do better in a more consistent basis than what he'd shown in one game today.

Regarding the 3 rookies, I wouldn't be worried that much too. They all have shown a lot of positives in their game that they were expected to do.

Evans once again have proven critics he was the better pick than Rubio. He is playing now, and Rubio is where? Plus, Evans had shown exactly the brand of play that made him the #4 pick instead of #5 and beyond. Fans cannot complain about Casspi's and Brochman's play, since they did what they were expected to do too.

Could it be because this is just the summer league that is why they didn't seriously play to win against the scrubs?

Certainly.

 

[kingsnation]

The Kings outrebounded the Pistons, does it really matter who gets them as long as its someone on the Kings? If he's boxing someone out and allows someone else to swoop in for the board isn't that what we want? Seems silly to question his effort because he only had three boards.

Yes, that's what we want. But I'm telling you - teams don't win titles when their starting PFs grab only 3 rebounds. One game is fine, but if it becomes a trend - then I say there is cause for concern.

 

[Kingsguy881]

Yes, that's what we want. But I'm telling you - teams don't win titles when their starting PFs grab only 3 rebounds. One game is fine, but if it becomes a trend - then I say there is cause for concern.

Dude....come on. He averaged 7 rebounds a game last year and he was a rookie. HE AVERAGED 7 REBOUNDS IN THE NBA IN HIS FIRST SEASON. Get off the first summer league b.s. it is ridiculous.

Its nice to be able to see them play but some people are reading WAY to much into this.

 

[SacTownGrantFan]

Dude....come on. He averaged 7 rebounds a game last year and he was a rookie. HE AVERAGED 7 REBOUNDS IN THE NBA IN HIS FIRST SEASON. Get off the first summer league b.s. it is ridiculous.

Its nice to be able to see them play but some people are reading WAY to much into this.

Thank you.

 

[kingsnation]

Dude....come on. He averaged 7 rebounds a game last year and he was a rookie. HE AVERAGED 7 REBOUNDS IN THE NBA IN HIS FIRST SEASON. Get off the first summer league b.s. it is ridiculous.

Its nice to be able to see them play but some people are reading WAY to much into this.

Chill out. I understand that. That's why I said this in the original post...

One game is fine, but if it becomes a trend - then I say there is cause for concern.

Reading entire posts can actually save alot of time.

 

[Jerryaki]

Excatly the point. I would expect a team that has been drafting in the lottery to have a much better summer team than one who's been drafting at the end of the first round.

Beating up a on scrub means little, everyone pretty much agress. But not being able to beat up on or getting beat by the same scrub does mean alot.

It seems every year the sky is falling comments come earlier and earlier. I hope we win the next game, if we lose the players might have to commit seppuku for shaming our franchise so...

 

[fnordius]

But I'm telling you - teams don't win titles when their starting PFs grab only 3 rebounds. One game is fine, but if it becomes a trend - then I say there is cause for concern.

He was playing (out of position at) C in that game. And he was playing under Coachie, which means a different system than what we've been doing lately. Under that system, we used to win games when our starting C got only 3 rebounds, as the appended box score shows.

You might not be wild about that system, or think it's a bad fit for our roster - and I wouldn't argue with that POV - but (even if it weren't a meaningless summer game) that doesn't mean that it can't win any games. And it just might become a trend, intentionally.

---------
SACRAMENTO (95) AT PORTLAND (94) - 11/23/2002

SACRAMENTO

PLAYER POS MIN FGM-FGA FTM-FTA OFF-DEF-TOT AST PF ST TO PTS
====== === === ======= ======= =========== === == == == ===

H TURKOGLU F 35 4-9 7-8 0 2 2 2 4 0 2 15
C WEBBER F 43 12-21 0-2 2 8 10 5 2 1 5 24
V DIVAC C 35 2-4 0-0 2 1 3 6 2 4 2 4
D CHRISTIE G 41 3-6 7-8 0 7 7 5 2 0 1 15
B JACKSON G 34 7-18 4-4 0 1 1 2 1 0 1 22
G WALLACE 15 3-7 2-2 0 3 3 1 2 2 0 8
K CLARK 18 1-4 0-0 0 3 3 3 3 0 0 2
D JONES 19 2-7 0-0 0 0 0 0 1 1 0 5
S POLLARD DNP - STRESS FRACTURE LOWER BAC
L FUNDERBURKE DNP - COACH'S DECISION
P STOJAKOVIC DNP - PLANTAR FASCITIS, RIGHT
M CLEAVES DNP - SURGERY LEFT FOOT

TOTALS 240 34-76 20-24 4 25 29 24 17 8 11 95
(.447) (.833) TEAM REBS: 12 TOTAL TO: 13 (9 PTS)

PORTLAND

PLAYER POS MIN FGM-FGA FTM-FTA OFF-DEF-TOT AST PF ST TO PTS
====== === === ======= ======= =========== === == == == ===

B WELLS F 31 5-10 2-2 1 7 8 4 2 1 4 12
R WALLACE F 41 12-20 1-1 2 7 9 1 3 2 3 30
D DAVIS C 24 2-6 0-0 2 4 6 1 4 0 0 4
D ANDERSON G 31 4-11 1-1 1 2 3 5 4 0 0 11
S PIPPEN G 33 5-10 1-2 1 4 5 4 2 1 5 11
J MCINNIS 15 0-4 0-0 0 3 3 2 1 1 2 0
A DANIELS 15 0-1 0-0 0 0 0 0 2 0 0 0
R PATTERSON 19 1-3 1-3 0 1 1 3 2 0 1 3
A SABONIS 22 3-5 4-4 3 3 6 3 1 1 0 10
Z RANDOLPH 9 4-7 5-6 0 1 1 0 3 0 0 13
D STOUDAMIRE DNP - COACH'S DECISION
Q WOODS DNP - COACH'S DECISION

TOTALS 240 36-77 15-19 10 32 42 23 24 6 15 94
(.468) (.789) TEAM REBS: 8 TOTAL TO: 16 (12 PTS)

SACRAMENTO 22 24 23 26 - 95
PORTLAND 23 25 26 20 - 94

BLOCKED SHOTS: SACRAMENTO - V DIVAC 4, D CHRISTIE, K CLARK, G WALLACE,
D JONES, C WEBBER. PORTLAND - D DAVIS 2, R WALLACE, R PATTERSON.

3-PT. FIELD GOALS: SACRAMENTO 7-19 (.368), H TURKOGLU 0-2, D CHRISTIE 2-
3, B JACKSON 4-9, D JONES 1-5. PORTLAND 7-13 (.538), B WELLS 0-1, R WALLACE 5-
10, D ANDERSON 2-2.
TECHNICAL FOULS: PORTLAND - D DAVIS, DEFENSIVE THREE, B WELLS.
FLAGRANT FOULS: NONE.
OFFICIALS: BOB DELANEY, SEAN CORBIN, TONY BROWN.
A - 18,782. T - 2:13.

 

[swisshh]

I'm not concerned about wins or losses in Summer League. Worry more about what abilities you see the players exhibit. Donte rebounding is good, but Jason not rebounding is worrisome. If Jason isn't showing progress with back to the basket offense then that is worrisome. If Omri looks new, lost, but able to make plays as he adjusts then that is good. If Evans is having trouble pushing the ball at point then worry. That is how I view SL.

 

[kingsnation]

He was playing (out of position at) C in that game. And he was playing under Coachie, which means a different system than what we've been doing lately. Under that system, we used to win games when our starting C got only 3 rebounds, as the appended box score shows.

You might not be wild about that system, or think it's a bad fit for our roster - and I wouldn't argue with that POV - but (even if it weren't a meaningless summer game) that doesn't mean that it can't win any games. And it just might become a trend, intentionally.

Thanks for the stats. It does kind of ease my worries since the 3 boards were due to the system he was playing in yesterday.

I think the system could work well with our roster but maybe didn't look so hot w/o Spencer playing in the game. Evans and Noc would play well in that system since they seek out alot of boards anyway, but I think guys like Martin would struggle greatly.

Even if you look at that roster in 03..

H TURKOGLU F 35 4-9 7-8 0 2 2 2 4 0 2 15
C WEBBER F 43 12-21 0-2 2 8 10 5 2 1 5 24
V DIVAC C 35 2-4 0-0 2 1 3 6 2 4 2 4
D CHRISTIE G 41 3-6 7-8 0 7 7 5 2 0 1 15
B JACKSON G 34 7-18 4-4 0 1 1 2 1 0 1 22
G WALLACE 15 3-7 2-2 0 3 3 1 2 2 0 8
K CLARK 18 1-4 0-0 0 3 3 3 3 0 0 2
D JONES 19 2-7 0-0 0 0 0 0 1 1 0 5

Guys like Christie, Bobby, Hedo and Wallace could all effectively rebound if needed and usually did, especially Doug and Bobby.

Now, implement that system with Martin, Beno, Greene. ?? I just don't feel comfortable. I'm convinced Cisco could thrive in it though. We would also be replacing a defensive big in Keon with someone (as it appears) like Ike Diogu. If we do end up running this system at all this year, I'd feel more comfortable with a guy like Brockman than Diogu playing as a third or fourth big.

I think we can win games with it, I just don't think in the long run it could win us a title. Has there ever been any teams running that system that have won a championship?

 

[=LarryLegend=]

but Jason not rebounding is worrisome. If Jason isn't showing progress with back to the basket offense then that is worrisome.

Besides Kmart, JT prob has the best work ethic on the Kings, He is a proven rebounder. I wouldn't be surprised if he has 10rebs today.

 

[fnordius]

I think we can win games with it, I just don't think in the long run it could win us a title. Has there ever been any teams running that system that have won a championship?

College, yes. Something like it may have won in Europe, too. But in the NBA, we came closer than anyone else.

My concern is mostly about how you take a roster which ranks 27th for assists and 29th for assist/TO ratio and make them into the perfect specimen WRT ball movement. Maybe we were hoping to get Hedo or something. But, right now, the top teams tend to be around +4 assists and -1 TO compared to us, and I'm stumped as to where those high-precision extra assists are going to be coming from.

We'll also need a bunch of solid one-on-one defenders, since our C won't be spending very much time in the paint. That, I'm assuming, is a work in progress.

 

[swisshh]

You don't win rings with your big men operating outside. We watched, we know. It weakens you defensively, it weakens you in rebounding.

The team needs an identity by the end of pre-season. My worry is you don't have any of the right ingredients on this team for a cohesive offense.

 

[Bricklayer]

You don't win rings with your big men operating outside. We watched, we know. It weakens you defensively, it weakens you in rebounding.

The team needs an identity by the end of pre-season. My worry is you don't have any of the right ingredients on this team for a cohesive offense.

OUr offense really isn't the problem. As usual for Petrie, every player likely to step on the floor for us can score. Unfortunately every player to step on the floor across form them can suddenly score too.

 

[swisshh]

OUr offense really isn't the problem. As usual for Petrie, every player likely to step on the floor for us can score. Unfortunately every player to step on the floor across form them can suddenly score too.

They can score, but we rather lack ball handlers. And turnovers and horrible defense will get you...... 17 wins.

 

[bajaden]

They can score, but we rather lack ball handlers. And turnovers and horrible defense will get you...... 17 wins.

That was last year, and this is this year. Evans is a good ballhandler. Cisco is decent. Hawes is a good ballhandler for a big man and I think Thompson is a good ballhandler. What they need is experience, which hopefully will cut down on the mistakes.

 

[steelevt]

DaJuan Summers: Impressive in Summer League

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=rotowire-auanummersmpressivei&prov=rotowire&type=fantasy

Update: Summers is excelling in the Las Vegas Summer League, averaging 21.5 points and 6.5 boards through the first two games.
Recommendation: Summers went toe-to-toe against the Kings’ Justin Thompson in his first game, finishing with 24 points (9-for-15 FG) and seven rebounds. While it’s only the summer league, Summers domination of a talent like Thompson shows that the Pistons got a bargain in the second round.

is there a new kings player im unaware of? they mention how good of a talent he is but mispell his name

 

[Kingster]

College, yes. Something like it may have won in Europe, too. But in the NBA, we came closer than anyone else.

My concern is mostly about how you take a roster which ranks 27th for assists and 29th for assist/TO ratio and make them into the perfect specimen WRT ball movement. Maybe we were hoping to get Hedo or something. But, right now, the top teams tend to be around +4 assists and -1 TO compared to us, and I'm stumped as to where those high-precision extra assists are going to be coming from.

Assists are sure easier to come by when you have a legit low post scoring threat or a ball handler who can consistently get to the basket. I think we have the ball handler who can get to the basket (Evans). Now we need Hawes and Thompson to take the next step and be legit low post scorers. Then it won't take incredible skill to make the assist, just a simple easy pass. To take this point to it's logical extreme, how much skill do you think it took to get assists by throwing it into Shaq or Jabbar in the prime of their careers? Not a heckuva lot. We need some of the non-ball handlers to do better to create assists on this team.

 

[Kingsguy881]

Chill out. I understand that. That's why I said this in the original post...



Reading entire posts can actually save alot of time.

I read your entire post, it was a sure waste of your typing and my time. This ain't even the preseason, this is SUMMER LEAGUE! These games, to Jason Thompson, are less than meaningless, they are a way to keep himself in basketball shape and work on some offense, nothing more nothing else. It is kinda pointless to add that "if it becomes a trend" crap, as his 82 GAME SEASON LAST YEAR WAS A MUCH BIGGER TREND.

 

[fnordius]

Assists are sure easier to come by when you have a legit low post scoring threat or a ball handler who can consistently get to the basket. I think we have the ball handler who can get to the basket (Evans). Now we need Hawes and Thompson to take the next step and be legit low post scorers.

Well, Hawes isn't playing in summer league, but I don't think that JT's inability to make shots is exactly a big factor right now. Let's look at who is taking the shots, and how well they're doing it.

#1 most frequent shooter: Tyreke Evans, 12 of 29 (41.3%)
#2 most frequent shooter: Donte Greene, 8 of 26 (30.7%)
#3: Omri Casspi, 7 of 19 (36.8%)
#4: Jason Thompson, 9 of 19 (47.4%)
#5: Marcus Landry, 7 of 15 (46.7%)
#6: Jerel McNeal, 5 of 8 (62.5%)
#7: Robert Battle, 5 of 5 (100%)
#8: Jon Brockman, 2 of 5 (40.0%)
#9: Brian Roberts, 1 of 3 (33.3%)
#10: Ryan Toolson, 1 of 2 (50%)

Evans, Greene and Casspi are, between them, taking around 60% of all shots, yet are a collective 27 of 75 (36%). Shooters #4-7 get far fewer shots, but are a collective 26 of 47 (55.3%).

If his assist rates are low because guys aren't hitting shots, maybe he's passing to the wrong guys. And, as a 41% shooter, he's usually going to be doing the team a favor when he doesn't shoot, but rather passes to one of those >46% shooters. From my perspective, anyway.

 

[kingsnation]

I read your entire post, it was a sure waste of your typing and my time. This ain't even the preseason, this is SUMMER LEAGUE! These games, to Jason Thompson, are less than meaningless, they are a way to keep himself in basketball shape and work on some offense, nothing more nothing else. It is kinda pointless to add that "if it becomes a trend" crap, as his 82 GAME SEASON LAST YEAR WAS A MUCH BIGGER TREND.

Wow. It's nothing to get fired up about. If it's a waste of your time, then why did you take time to respond?