Virginia Tech shooting

VF21

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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070416/ap_on_re_us/virginia_tech_shooting_66

Gunman kills 30 on Virginia Tech campus
By SUE LINDSEY, Associated Press Writer


BLACKSBURG, Va. - A gunman opened fire in a Virginia Tech dorm and then, two hours later, in a classroom across campus Monday, killing at least 30 people in the deadliest shooting rampage in U.S. history, government officials told The Associated Press. The gunman was killed, bringing the death toll to 31.

"Today the university was struck with a tragedy that we consider of monumental proportions," said Virginia Tech president Charles Steger. "The university is shocked and indeed horrified."

It was not immediately clear whether the gunman was shot by police or took his own life. His name was not released, and investigators offered no motive for the attack. It was not known if the gunman was a student.

The shootings spread panic and confusion on campus, with students complaining that the university did not warn them about the first burst of gunfire until more than two hours later.

Witnesses reporting students jumping out the windows of a classroom building to escape the gunfire. SWAT team members with helmets, flak jackets and assault rifles swarmed over the campus. Students and faculty members carried out some of the wounded themselves, without waiting for ambulances to arrive.

The massacre took place at opposite sides of the 2,600-acre campus, beginning at about 7:15 a.m. at West Ambler Johnston, a coed dormitory that houses 895 people, and continuing at least two hours later at Norris Hall, an engineering building about a half-mile away, authorities said.

Police said they were still investigating the shooting at the dorm when they got word of gunfire at the classroom building.

Some students bitterly questioned why the gunman was able to strike a second time, two hours after the bloodshed began.

"What happened today this was ridiculous. And I don't know what happened or what was going through this guy's mind," student Jason Piatt told CNN. "But I'm pretty outraged and I'll say on the record I'm pretty outraged that someone died in a shooting in a dorm at 7 o'clock in the morning and the first e-mail about it — no mention of locking down campus, no mention of canceling classes — they just mention that they're investigating a shooting two hours later at 9:22."

He added: "That's pretty ridiculous and meanwhile, while they're sending out that e-mail, 22 more people got killed."


FBI spokesman Richard Kolko in Washington said there was no evidence to suggest it was a terrorist attack, "but all avenues will be explored."

Up until Monday, the deadliest mass shooting in U.S. history was in Killeen, Texas, in 1991, when George Hennard drove his pickup into a Luby's Cafeteria and shot 23 people to death, then himself.

The massacre Monday took place almost eight years to the day after the Columbine High bloodbath near Littleton, Colo. On April 20, 1999, two teenagers killed 12 fellow students and a teacher before taking their own lives.

Previously, the deadliest campus shooting in U.S. history was a rampage that took place in 1966 at the University of Texas at Austin, where Charles Whitman climbed the clock tower and opened fire with a rifle from the 28th-floor observation deck. He killed 16 people before he was shot to death by police.

Founded in 1872, Virginia Tech is nestled in the Blue Ridge Mountains of southwestern Virginia, about 160 miles west of Richmond. With more than 25,000 full-time students, it has the state's largest full-time student population. The school is best known for its engineering school and its powerhouse Hokies football team.

The rampage took place on a brisk spring day, with snow flurries swirling around the campus. The campus is centered around the Drill Field, a grassy field where military cadets — who now represent a fraction of the student body — once practiced. The dorm and the classroom building are on opposites sides of the Drill Field.

A gasp could be heard at a campus news conference when Virginia Tech Police Chief W.R. Flinchum said at least 20 people had been killed. Previously, only one person was thought to have been killed.

Investigators from the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives began marking and recovering the large number of shell casings and will trace the weapon used, authorities said.

A White House spokesman said

President Bush was horrified by the rampage and offered his prayers to the victims and the people of Virginia.

"The president believes that there is a right for people to bear arms, but that all laws must be followed," spokeswoman Dana Perino said

After the shootings, all entrances to the campus were closed, and classes were canceled through Tuesday. The university set up a meeting place for families to reunite with their children. It also made counselors available and planned an assembly for Tuesday at the basketball arena.

After the shooting began, students were told to stay inside away from the windows.

Aimee Kanode, a freshman from Martinsville, said the shooting happened on the fourth floor of West Ambler Johnston dormitory, one floor above her room. Kanode's resident assistant knocked on her door about 8 a.m. to notify students to stay put.

"They had us under lockdown," Kanode said. "They temporarily lifted the lockdown, the gunman shot again."

"We're all locked in our dorms surfing the Internet trying to figure out what's going on," Kanode said.

Maurice Hiller, 21, a mechanical engineering student from Richmond, saw police and SWAT team members with guns drawn going toward Norris Hall. "This is something just totally beyond anybody's expectations," he said.

Police said there had been bomb threats on campus over the past two weeks by authorities but said they have not determined a link to the shootings.

It was second time in less than a year that the campus was closed because of a shooting.

Last August, the opening day of classes was canceled and the campus closed when an escaped jail inmate allegedly killed a hospital guard off campus and fled to the Tech area. A sheriff's deputy involved in the manhunt was killed on a trail just off campus. The accused gunman, William Morva, faces capital murder charges.
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My thoughts and prayers go out to all of those touched by this tragedy.
 
This is just horrible! :( I've been following it since this morning.

My thoughts & prayers to the familes of the victims.
 
This is just horrible news. Words fail me. My thoughts and prayers are with the loved ones of those killed today.
 
A true tragedy. My thoughts and prayers go out to the victims and their familes.

But it is just unfathomable that it (the shooting) was allowed to go on.
 
Wow the killer got 32 people!! 1 man got 32! :eek:

Chained the doors shut and just went nuts.

Unbelievable. :(
 
Its called a gun. Cannot do that with a knife.

Could with a car as well. Or chemical bomb. Or explosives. Or some other means. The determined will find a way.

Very sad, as others said. What a horrible, horrible tragedy.
 
Could with a car as well. Or chemical bomb. Or explosives. Or some other means. The determined will find a way.

Very sad, as others said. What a horrible, horrible tragedy.

No, you would be hard pressed to with a car, and nobody that I know of has ever managed to come close. Too easy to get away from. Too many places they cannot go. And ever "hit" you score at enough speed to be fatal has a cumulative chance of disabling your weapon.

And few people have bombs and explosives lying around, or the knowhow to build/acquire them. Guns though...easy to acquire, easy to use, and for the emotional impulsive killer like the one here, absolutely no comparison. You don't have to be nuts or a terrorist plotting for weeks or months to kill lots of people with a gun. Just angry and distraught.
 
No, you would be hard pressed to with a car, and nobody that I know of has ever managed to come close. Too easy to get away from. Too many places they cannot go. And ever "hit" you score at enough speed to be fatal has a cumulative chance of disabling your weapon.

And few people have bombs and explosives lying around, or the knowhow to build/acquire them. Guns though...easy to acquire, easy to use, and for the emotional impulsive killer like the one here, absolutely no comparison. You don't have to be nuts or a terrorist plotting for weeks or months to kill lots of people with a gun. Just angry and distraught.

Bingo.
 
No, you would be hard pressed to with a car, and nobody that I know of has ever managed to come close. Too easy to get away from. Too many places they cannot go. And ever "hit" you score at enough speed to be fatal has a cumulative chance of disabling your weapon.

And few people have bombs and explosives lying around, or the knowhow to build/acquire them. Guns though...easy to acquire, easy to use, and for the emotional impulsive killer like the one here, absolutely no comparison. You don't have to be nuts or a terrorist plotting for weeks or months to kill lots of people with a gun. Just angry and distraught.

Not necessarily. I agree guns are much easier, but I think you are downplaying the ease to build pipe bombs and the like (grade-school kids do it) and the damage you could do with a car in a highly trafficed pedestrian area.

But I don't want to derail this thread.
 
I was talking to my mom about this yesterday. I was born and raised in Sarajevo. Lived there during the whole war. I've seen massacres, people killed for no reason, I've been shot at by snipers (luckily missed) nearly hit by shrapnels numerous times.

For some reason incidents like yesterday are even worse. During the war (no matter how just or unjust) you learn to expect that every minute could be your last. It is a whole different ballpark when you think you are in a peaceful situation, assume certain safeties and than something like yesterday happens.
 
As always seems to happen, there are stories of tremendous courage and sacrifice coming out, such as that of the professor who held the door shut so his students could drop out the second-story window. The professor, a holocaust survivor, gave his life in the process.

I mourn the loss of those who died but I am very glad there are people in the world like that professor who show the good side of man.
 
This just proves how vulnerable we all are in life. Nobody is exempt. Life is preciuous, and in a second, somebody, anybody can change the course of life.

Keep believing in God and having faith in God, raise your children right, and pray everyday for peace in your home and around your community.
 
this is just terrible. I was in my hotel room when I saw nothing but this all over the news. I couldn't sleep. :( my prayers and condolences go out to all those who are suffering right now. (especially to the parents who have to go out there and identify their children's bodies.)
 
Its called a gun. Cannot do that with a knife.

Yes and no. You'd be hard-pressed to kill 32 people with a knife whilst on a rampage like that, but if you're on a airplane (albeit without air-marshalls), you can kill hundreds. (Or thousands...September 11th?)

Anyways, this is indeed a massive tragedy. Killing college students directly impacts the future of all of us...of our country. The scary thing is that there is little you can do to prevent incidents such as this. Sitting in my college classes today I couldn't help but wonder what would happen if a gunman were to break in and start shooting...it's a scary thought.
 
Freakboy sent a package to NBC of pictures of himself and a video railing against debauchery and hedonism. He did this after he killed the first 2 and before the 2nd barrage.

Kudos to the former professor of his who did everything she could to get him out of her class and into psych counseling. I saw on TV that he was diagnosed mentally ill 2 years ago. He apparently either slipped thru the cracks or was handled with kid/kit gloves -- we're too afraid to say boo to anyone in this country nowadays.
 
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Freakboy sent a package to NBC of pictures of himself and a video railing against debauchery and hedonism. He did this after he killed the first 2 and before the 2nd barrage.

I wish the person who discovered the package would have burned it. This is what the killer wanted - attention. Now his video, words and photos are all over the news and internet, giving attention to a trouble kid who wanted it. It's the same thing with the Columbine shooting - the murderers photos were on the cover of Time Magazine. Isn’t that what they wanted?

We should give attention to those who lost their lives, not the person who took them.

http://www.nytimes.com/ref/us/20070418_VICTIMS_GRAPHIC.html <--- I want to see more of this
 
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Sorry, I feel this is the most disturbing aspect of this massacre. All the networks airing his video is basically saying “hey introverts! Do you feel like the world is against you? Do you feel like no one is giving you the attention and respect you deserve? Well in that case, grab a couple of guns and shoot a bunch of students, and we’ll air all your thoughts on national television!”

Now I’m legitimately concerned about my safety on campus. I know TONS of quiet/weird kids in the film program. There’s even a guy I had class with who puts his head down and remains quiet when I say “hi” to him in the hall. What if he also hates all the rich kids at my school? What if right now he’s watching how the media is providing 24 hour coverage of this murderer? What if this media coverage makes him realize that shooting a bunch of people is more effective that posting blogs??

Sorry for the rant. Fell free to delete this if I offend anyone
 
Freakboy sent a package to NBC of pictures of himself and a video railing against debauchery and hedonism. He did this after he killed the first 2 and before the 2nd barrage.

Kudos to the former professor of his who did everything she could to get him out of her class and into psych counseling. I saw on TV that he was diagnosed mentally ill 2 years ago. He apparently either slipped thru the cracks or was handled with kid/kit gloves -- we're too afraid to say boo to anyone in this country nowadays.
Unfortunately, it's almost impossible to get anyone committed for treatment against their will. If (There is some good reasons for this, because not a few people in times past were comitted by people who wanted them out of the way and/or wanted their money. Think Francis Farmer.) Its pretty hard to lock up a person who's never done anything violent and base it only on what they've said or written.

You have to prove they are a danger to themselves or to others. There isn't usually compelling proof of that, until its too late, sometimes with tragic consequences.

The cost of psychiatric/psychological treatment and medications is prohibitive and even if you have health insurance, mental health coverage is extremely limited. (The costs are astronomical even for less serious conditions.)

There have been far too many cases of families desperately seeking help for a family member they believe to be a danger to themselves and others and there is no help available. They plead and beg to any agency that will listen to no avail. For some, their loved one ends up in jail/prison after they've hurt or even killed someone. Many end up homeless. Its a horrible system all around. And doesn't help or protect anybody very well.

And lest anybody reads this as a defense of this particular person, its not. But if we want to try and prevent at least some of these horrible tragedies, we at least need to try and improve mental health diagnoses and treatment.
 
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Sorry, I feel this is the most disturbing aspect of this massacre. All the networks airing his video is basically saying “hey introverts! Do you feel like the world is against you? Do you feel like no one is giving you the attention and respect you deserve? Well in that case, grab a couple of guns and shoot a bunch of students, and we’ll air all your thoughts on national television!”

Now I’m legitimately concerned about my safety on campus. I know TONS of quiet/weird kids in the film program. There’s even a guy I had class with who puts his head down and remains quiet when I say “hi” to him in the hall. What if he also hates all the rich kids at my school? What if right now he’s watching how the media is providing 24 hour coverage of this murderer? What if this media coverage makes him realize that shooting a bunch of people is more effective that posting blogs??

Sorry for the rant. Fell free to delete this if I offend anyone
I don't blame you at all, Ryan. And I think they shouldn't show it either. However, there is no doubt in my mind than it would get out to the public one way or another. My guess is, a lot of people would claim they have a "right" to hear it.:rolleyes: Never underestimate the garbage people want to see, hear and/or read. Nothing is private anymore.
 
Sorry, I feel this is the most disturbing aspect of this massacre. All the networks airing his video is basically saying “hey introverts! Do you feel like the world is against you? Do you feel like no one is giving you the attention and respect you deserve? Well in that case, grab a couple of guns and shoot a bunch of students, and we’ll air all your thoughts on national television!”

Now I’m legitimately concerned about my safety on campus. I know TONS of quiet/weird kids in the film program. There’s even a guy I had class with who puts his head down and remains quiet when I say “hi” to him in the hall. What if he also hates all the rich kids at my school? What if right now he’s watching how the media is providing 24 hour coverage of this murderer? What if this media coverage makes him realize that shooting a bunch of people is more effective that posting blogs??

Sorry for the rant. Fell free to delete this if I offend anyone

I think you've brought up some extremely important points, Ryan. I cannot imagine how anyone could truly be offended by your comments.

The only thing I'm offended it is the idea that it's somehow okay to air this stuff under the guise of "people need to know." I personally think it's deplorable that his rantings have gotten him more attention and notoriety.

I'm concerned for future students who may not get the same education because their parents fear to send them away to school. I'm concerned for each and every one of us because there are people out there with the means and apparently the motives to kill us simply because they can...

But, on the other hand, we cannot simply quit living our lives and hide in our homes. Homes aren't safe either. Look at the increase of home invasions. We are living in a world of unspeakable violence and it isn't always across an ocean or thousands of miles away. We're seeing more and more that it can be right across the street or down the road... And I don't think there are any easy answers.

I do believe firmly, however, the only real way to begin to solve the problems is to discuss them openly and without fearing anyone will be offended.

Kingsfans.com has a special group of people I have come to consider part of my extended family. You (Ryan) and some of the other members have literally grown up here. I pray for your safety and that of everyone else.
 
kennadog said:
You have to prove they are a danger to themselves or to others. There isn't usually compelling proof of that, until its too late, sometimes with tragic consequences.

I wonder what would've happened to him if he was still in HS and he turned in the violent papers that he submitted in college. Even in college, where kids are generally encouraged to think freely (or even liberally in many cases), his professor still went to her superiors. He also showed a pattern of stalking/scaring young women on campus -- the police actually responded to one of these incidents.

I gotta wonder how much was enough before he was actually expelled from school. Not that he couldn't have done what he did just as easily, but how many warning signs did they need? He was a posterchild for a mass murder by his writings alone, they sounded just like the stuff that Eric and Dylan wrote. I'd like to know if there was ever any discussion high up at VA Tech about this kid being a potential threat. That's gonna be a question asked by the attorneys of the victims' families.
 
I wonder what would've happened to him if he was still in HS and he turned in the violent papers that he submitted in college. Even in college, where kids are generally encouraged to think freely (or even liberally in many cases), his professor still went to her superiors. He also showed a pattern of stalking/scaring young women on campus -- the police actually responded to one of these incidents.

I gotta wonder how much was enough before he was actually expelled from school. Not that he couldn't have done what he did just as easily, but how many warning signs did they need? He was a posterchild for a mass murder by his writings alone, they sounded just like the stuff that Eric and Dylan wrote. I'd like to know if there was ever any discussion high up at VA Tech about this kid being a potential threat. That's gonna be a question asked by the attorneys of the victims' families.

And hopefully it's being discussed on other campuses as we speak. Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it...

:(
 
VF21 said:
And hopefully it's being discussed on other campuses as we speak. Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it...

:(

Yeah. We have a nasty habit in this country in general of letting our guard down after tragedies as the years go by. SEE: slipping back into lax security practices at airports.

I read a listing of our worst mass shootings and there were more of them that even I could even recall off hand. They didn't even count the DC sniper either. We do tend to forget. It does seem that the incidents that stick out are those in which children die, such as the 1984 massacre at the McDonald's in San Ysidro. They focused heavily on the little boy on his bike who got mowed down in front. Shootings where HS or college children die also resonate immediately, and unfortunately, copycats who want notoriety realize this. Charles Whitman (Univ of Texas tower sniper) is still notorious 40 years later...
 
Yea, copycats are really an issue in a situation like this. Some idiot called our college campus yesterday threatening to shoot up the campus. Whoever it was thought it was funny, but our school took it seriously. Now our professors keep the classroom doors closed and locked while we're in class, and we see alot of campus security and city police presence outside our classrooms and in our dorm building. Hopefully, the heightened security will stay this way, but unfortunately like Gargamel said, we let our guard down.
 
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