Boogie-havoc
Bench
A question guys.
If the hardcap is implanted.. is it safe to say the Heat are preety much screwed?
If the hardcap is implanted.. is it safe to say the Heat are preety much screwed?
Vets seeking to sign with Heat
- Thread starter KingKong55
- Start date
I don't really get you ...
Emma
Starter
I'm sure that whatever has to happen for them to get under the cap will happen. There will probably be a compliance period. Also, the minimum contract amounts will probably drop under the new CBA, so I think they'll be able to snap up these leech-like veteran free agents all the time.
This has "looks good on paper but..." written all over it. There are just way too many egos involved for it to work out.
kingsnation
All-Star
Lakers, Spurs, Pistons, Celtics, Magic, Heat, Suns, Mavericks, Nets, Kings, Cavs.... all of these teams have been TRUE contenders in the past decade. All of them except us and the Suns have been in a Finals and LAL, SA, DET, BOS, and MIA have won titles. Then you take the teams that have had amazing years but just fall short (Ex. the 04 Wolves or 01 Sixers. Even the 09 Nuggets..) Granted, it's not the NFL. But there's been quite a few consistent contenders over the past 10 years.
As much as it pains me to say it, I'd be right there with you.
Telemachus
Starter
They wouldn't be the only ones. The Lakers will have $59 million tied up in Kobe, Gasol, and Bynum next season.
Gargamel
Starter
The Celtics are a balanced team and if healthy, will probably take out Miami.
I don't think the games of Wade and Bron, as good as they are individually, mesh well with each other. Their most unstoppable skill, imo, is driving to the rim and I think they need the ball to fully dominate a game. Then you have Bosh in a more dependent 3rd option role after playing nothing but 1st in his career (he already made it clear he's not willing to bang, so they mainly rely on Haslem and codgers in that capacity). Unless they accept changes in their outlooks, I don't see them figuring each other out until maybe after the lockout year. By that point, Boston will be done and LA will probably be sliding. I think if and when Miami wins a title, it will almost be by default - kind of like the 91 Bulls, but even more stark by comparison. PS: A lot of their own fans seem to be forgetting that when they picked up Shaq, they didn't get around Detroit (a more complete team) until Year 2 and also that they faced a cupcake in the Finals instead of SA. Shaq and Wade lost in 05 and 07 primarily because of the rest of the team not being up to snuff. In 06, Dallas' soft interior D was tailor made for Wade's drives and Shaq's degrading athleticism.
They might be better off by staggering the minutes of Wade and Bron as much as possible like Phil used to do w/ Kobe and Shaq.
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steelevt
All-Star
id rather have a miamilosangeles-ba than just a losangeles-ba. all i was hearing last year was how the lakers were the team to beat. they pretty much had the championship won and was going through the motions. some of you dont like how the heat were built, but id rather go through the season not knowing for sure that the lakers will win it all.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
People are just making up this new Lakers dominance so they can complain about the Lakers. There were at least 4 teams with a shot last year (Bos, Orl and Cle) and even Dallas was prophecied as a challenge. This is not an all time great unbeatable Lakers team. They were the champs, so they were favored. But they weren't remotely untouchable.
And for the rest, people are also being stupid. Rivalries are irrelevant in the face of a threat to balance of the entire league in which they are spawned. You don't like L.A.? Fine. But if Miami succeeds and other superstars are forced to follow suit to compete, the Lakers are going to be one of a handful of franchises that will be likely breeding ground for the next superteam. Sacramento will not. You'll be kissing L.A. *** forever. Under the current pre-Miami system the Lakers can be beat, and we've gone a long way toward building a foundation to beat them in the future. If the Miami superteam system actually works, the superteams won't be beatable by the rest of us. There will be no way to put one together if you are a lesser market.
Entity
Hall of Famer
Detroit, L.A., Boston, San Antonio, Miami were the champions Now the teams that were contenders during that decade. Dallas, Cleveland, Pheonix, Sacramento, New Jersey, Philly, Orlando. Thats 12 teams that were serious contenders during the last decade.
steelevt
All-Star
my "making up" the laker dominance was based on listening to sports radio everyday on the way to work. with them upgrading from ariza to artest. they were already a superteam with kobe pau artest and bynum. nobody could beat them. boston was "too old" and right up until the playoffs no one expected them to do anything. cavs were expected to compete with lebron carrying them and orlando was another favorite to contend with dwight, rashad, vince and a healthy nelson (another team stacked with allstars/former allstars). so every day it wasnt who will win the championship, it was who can stop the lakers from winning.
now im not blind to what can happen to the league if the heat thing works out. i can be detrimental to small market teams...but this isnt exactly something new. its not like all these free agents wanted to come here before. players have always wanted to go to a team that is good/has good players, or will overpay. (ie lakers, boston, spurs/atl,memphis overpaying for fa)and players who arent keaving will threaten to leave unless they get help (ie kobe lebron). you make it seem like everything is on an even playing field right now in the nba and this heat thing will all of a sudden mess things up. things are already bad. no one wants to go to go to minnesota, utah or sacramento unless theyre overpaid, traded or drafted. we all knew this and talked about this, before the heat and will do the same after the heat. this will only make a bad situation a little worse.
Yeah, okay... I'm not going to speak for anyone else, and I'm not going to commit the "No True Scotsman" fallacy that some others have, but I'll be goddamned if I root for the lakers to win anything, ever in life.
You talk about rivalries being irrelevant, and imply that Miami succeeding could kill the league. Well, my response to that, to paraphrase a line from Jason Lee's character in Dogma, I would rather the NBA not exist than root for the lakers.
I couldn't have said it better.
I can't believe what I'm reading here-Root for the LAKERS!?!? Where are those big eyed/shocked emot icons?
steelevt
All-Star
all the new "kingsfans/lakers supporters" stole them and took them to their new forum...lakersfans.com
I do not want the NBA to cease to exist, nor do I want it to become nothing more than "he who buys the best team win," which is what I think Miami is trying to do. My hatred for the Laker scum is pretty much legendary. My statement is that I would root for the Lakers in the finals before I would root for the Miami Heat. And I, for one, will stand by that statement. The ONLY team I'll root for from Florida is named after one of Mother Nature's most magnificent and yet frightening displays of raw power.
HUR-RI-CANES!!!
Hey, I can grok your point of view, in fullness... I just can't go there with you; no chance, no way, no how.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Thre simplest solution to all this is really just for us to knock the Lakers off in the playoffs so that the black hats are easier to identify.
Thre simplest solution to all this is really just for us to knock the Lakers off in the playoffs so that the black hats are easier to identify.
Either that, or wait for LBJ to choke in the first round and watch the fireworks when Miami goes home early.
Packt
Starter
I would never root for the lakers. Even when Vlade played there, and Artest and Barnes are two of my most liked nba players. Even last year I wanted a team I disliked in the Celtics to smash them to pieces. Never, F-N ever.
The super team I thought was the future of the NBA. The success the celtics had with their trio of hall of famers is hard to forget. In the past a good perimeter player and a good big man was all most people wanted, but after the run boston had it would be surprising if others didn't try to replicate that. We're going backwards in someways. Maybe now we're finally erasing the MJ legacy of one man doing everything and getting all the credit. Maybe now team play will be back in vogue.
I've felt like if hard caps and shorter contracts are the way of the future as the owners want it to be, super teams were more likely to form. There's less money to chase and players up for re-negotiation more frequently. that could lead to players congregating onto one team to chase rings. That kind of league isn't good for small market teams like Sacramento. If players are taking less in salary, they''l want to make it up in endorsement money.
The super team I thought was the future of the NBA. The success the celtics had with their trio of hall of famers is hard to forget. In the past a good perimeter player and a good big man was all most people wanted, but after the run boston had it would be surprising if others didn't try to replicate that. We're going backwards in someways. Maybe now we're finally erasing the MJ legacy of one man doing everything and getting all the credit. Maybe now team play will be back in vogue.
I've felt like if hard caps and shorter contracts are the way of the future as the owners want it to be, super teams were more likely to form. There's less money to chase and players up for re-negotiation more frequently. that could lead to players congregating onto one team to chase rings. That kind of league isn't good for small market teams like Sacramento. If players are taking less in salary, they''l want to make it up in endorsement money.
Either that, or wait for LBJ to choke in the first round and watch the fireworks when Miami goes home early.
Are you suggesting that LBJ can choke??? No way, we all know that if Miami doesn't win a championship it's because LBJ has a poor supporting cast.
Padrino
All-Star
i'm kinda baffled by all this lakers vs. heat talk. isn't it possible to simply not have a horse in a given race? is it so wrong to simply abstain from "rooting" for a specific team in a specifc finals match-up?
if i were to say that i would prefer that the lakers win another title as opposed to the miami heat, because i think the superteam model is detrimental to the league, does that mean i've cast my lot for the lakers? i don't think so. it just means i'm not thrilled about the prospect of miami's model trending around the league. the lakers winning titles is nothing new. they've done it a lot across the last thirty years, and their model for winning was only detrimental to the kings directly, when both teams were competing against each other for western conference supremacy in the early part of the 2000's. the miami heat's present model for winning, on the other hand, is detrimental to the kings indirectly. and this is more damaging, because the kings may be able to get even with the lakers in the next few years, but they won't have any control over the seas of change that are inevitably headed the league's way. the kings aren't competing for titles at the moment, and they could still very easily feel the waves of miami's 2010 offseason. it's all speculation, but with the future CBA up in the air, and a lockout looming that threatens the future of the 2011-2012 season, i'd just as soon not see a trend develop in which star players feel even more compelled to leave the their present teams than they already might. it's not necessarily uncommon for star players to leave their teams for the sake of winning or for a more tantalizing market, but when you combine both winning and the allure of a bigger city, it gets much more difficult for a team in a smaller market to compete in free agency. i think the idea that free agents will always prefer to bolt for bigger markets is overblown, however i also think that the cap-clearing trend that we saw heading into this offseason could increase the chances of star players attempting to team up at the neutral location of their choice in the future. and i see very little chance that a location like sacramento is going to appeal to those star players. miami may not be the biggest media market in the country, but it's a beautiful place and a notorious party town. there's a lot of appeal there, apart from the winning culture that will likely follow the on-court triumvirate of lebron james, dwayne wade, and chris bosh...
now, i'm not saying that players like tyreke evans and demarcus cousins will go the way of james and bosh when their rookie contracts are up, but i am saying that i care much more about my kings than i do about whether or not the lakers win another title. if the heat taking a fall at the hands of the lakers is what it takes to help insure the futures of tyreke evans and demarcus cousins in sacramento, then i'm not in any way opposed to watching the lebron james/dwayne wade/chris bosh experiment fail...
if i were to say that i would prefer that the lakers win another title as opposed to the miami heat, because i think the superteam model is detrimental to the league, does that mean i've cast my lot for the lakers? i don't think so. it just means i'm not thrilled about the prospect of miami's model trending around the league. the lakers winning titles is nothing new. they've done it a lot across the last thirty years, and their model for winning was only detrimental to the kings directly, when both teams were competing against each other for western conference supremacy in the early part of the 2000's. the miami heat's present model for winning, on the other hand, is detrimental to the kings indirectly. and this is more damaging, because the kings may be able to get even with the lakers in the next few years, but they won't have any control over the seas of change that are inevitably headed the league's way. the kings aren't competing for titles at the moment, and they could still very easily feel the waves of miami's 2010 offseason. it's all speculation, but with the future CBA up in the air, and a lockout looming that threatens the future of the 2011-2012 season, i'd just as soon not see a trend develop in which star players feel even more compelled to leave the their present teams than they already might. it's not necessarily uncommon for star players to leave their teams for the sake of winning or for a more tantalizing market, but when you combine both winning and the allure of a bigger city, it gets much more difficult for a team in a smaller market to compete in free agency. i think the idea that free agents will always prefer to bolt for bigger markets is overblown, however i also think that the cap-clearing trend that we saw heading into this offseason could increase the chances of star players attempting to team up at the neutral location of their choice in the future. and i see very little chance that a location like sacramento is going to appeal to those star players. miami may not be the biggest media market in the country, but it's a beautiful place and a notorious party town. there's a lot of appeal there, apart from the winning culture that will likely follow the on-court triumvirate of lebron james, dwayne wade, and chris bosh...
now, i'm not saying that players like tyreke evans and demarcus cousins will go the way of james and bosh when their rookie contracts are up, but i am saying that i care much more about my kings than i do about whether or not the lakers win another title. if the heat taking a fall at the hands of the lakers is what it takes to help insure the futures of tyreke evans and demarcus cousins in sacramento, then i'm not in any way opposed to watching the lebron james/dwayne wade/chris bosh experiment fail...
Some of us aren't as evolved as you, Padrino.
Well put. Some have made it sound like to root against the Heat should this abominable matchup take place would be akin to driving around with those silly Laker flags out your windows. On the contrary I would still hate both teams equally, I just have greater concerns about the Heat's impact on the Sacramento market's viability than I do the Lakers winning another title.
But I'm in the camp that sees the Heat not making the Finals right away and the Lakers starting to erode within the next two seasons.
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