Tyreke over Rubio(it has to be said)

[Bricklayer]

What about the fact that he actually has stunk in at least half of his games this year?

Which means...? He's dominated more than a few as well in a way that few players can do on their best days.

John Wall has stunk in most of his games this year too. There is probably some fool over on the Wizards forums suggesting they trade him too.

 

[Section 101]

What is your standard? They have to be HOFers? Because your list has about 20-30 All Star seasons on it.

How many have played in the conference finals let alone the NBA finals? Just saying ROY is overrated if your talking about being the best players in the league.

 

[Bricklayer]

How many have played in the conference finals let alone the NBA finals? Just saying ROY is overrated if your talking about being the best players in the league.

I sincerely doubt you would find a better predictor, even if far from 100%.

And in any case you can be a major Top 20 player in the NBA, which basically all those guys were, without ever winning a title.

 

[Section 101]

I'll give you Stevie Franchise but Elton Brand is legit and Carter was a bona fide star in his prime.

EDIT: Actually, Steve Francis was pretty darn good too.

Carter is one of the most overrated players in the history of the NBA. Ya he could dunk, but he wasnt taking a team far in the playoffs.

 

[rainmaker]

What about the fact that he actually has stunk in at least half of his games this year?

What I don't get, is guys you'd trade Reke for in Jennings and Wall, among others, have absolutely stunk themselves in many of the games they've played this year. It's shockingly common for players at this age to be inconsistent, especially with opposing defenses geared towards them nightly. Yet you want to trade one inconsistent youngster for another, as if that solves the inconsistency problem.

 

[Section 101]

I sincerely doubt you would find a better predictor, even if far from 100%.

And in any case you can be a major Top 20 player in the NBA, which basically all those guys were, without ever winning a title.

And say 5 years or more how many are still the best players from their drafts?

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

What I don't get, is guys you'd trade Reke for in Jennings and Wall, among others, have absolutely stunk themselves in many of the games they've played this year. It's shockingly common for players at this age to be inconsistent, especially with opposing defenses geared towards them nightly. Yet you want to trade one inconsistent youngster for another, as if that solves the inconsistency problem.

Some players can still help the team even when they're struggling. When Tyreke is struggling, he's near worthless. At least Wall can still get you 8 or 9 assists a game even when he's not shooting or playing well overall. if the rest of his game comes around, that's a big bonus.

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

Carter is one of the most overrated players in the history of the NBA. Ya he could dunk, but he wasnt taking a team far in the playoffs.

I can't stand Carter either, never did like him. But by conventional wisdom, he was a legit star, that's all I'm saying.

 

[Dime Dropper]

Some players can still help the team even when they're struggling. When Tyreke is struggling, he's near worthless. At least Wall can still get you 8 or 9 assists a game even when he's not shooting or playing well overall. if the rest of his game comes around, that's a big bonus.

The only thing Tyreke can't do is shoot. He has the ability to be able to help in multiple ways when he's not scoring well. He can defend, pass, rebound for his position etc.. He's 22, if you don't understand how young that is for an NBA player then that's your problem. He will figure it out eventually. Claiming that he can't help a team when he's not scoring is silly given his talent.

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

The only thing Tyreke can't do is shoot. He has the ability to be able to help in multiple ways when he's not scoring well. He can defend, pass, rebound for his position etc.. He's 22, if you don't understand how young that is for an NBA player then that's your problem. He will figure it out eventually. Claiming that he can't help a team when he's not scoring is silly given his talent.

Unlike you, I'm going by what i see, not how talented he is. Talent does very little if you don't know how to use it. He's been flat out terrible in a lot of his games this year. He goes M.I.A. far too often.

 

[Dime Dropper]

Unlike you, I'm going by what i see, not how talented he is. Talent does very little if you don't know how to use it. He's been flat out terrible in a lot of his games this year. He goes M.I.A. far too often.

Yes, but my problem with your analysis is that it seems you've given up on him. I'm not denying that he's had some very poor games, and I'm certainly not going to let things fly just because he's our player. But you have to recognise his talent. He's still very young, time is on his side and it would be idiotic to give up on him or trade him just because he's having some bad games, especially in a season like this where many teams are struggling. Ours, in particular, has had way too much to deal with to have reached our lofty pre-season expectations.

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

Yes, but my problem with your analysis is that it seems you've given up on him. I'm not denying that he's had some very poor games, and I'm certainly not going to let things fly just because he's our player. But you have to recognise his talent. He's still very young, time is on his side and it would be idiotic to give up on him or trade him just because he's having some bad games, especially in a season like this where many teams are struggling. Ours, in particular, has had way too much to deal with to have reached our lofty pre-season expectations.

I never doubted his talent. I doubt his mentality, drive, basketball IQ, conditioning, etc. I haven't fully given up on him yet but I'm getting close. Every time he dazzles us with a great game, it seems like he follows it it up with a string of duds. At some point you have to start questioning whether he's ever going to put it all together and be a consistent NBA player. Furthermore, it's not like I've suggested trading him for chopped liver.

 

[Dime Dropper]

I never doubted his talent. I doubt his mentality, drive, basketball IQ, conditioning, etc. I haven't fully given up on him yet but I'm getting close. Every time he dazzles us with a great game, it seems like he follows it it up with a string of duds. At some point you have to start questioning whether he's ever going to put it all together and be a consistent NBA player. Furthermore, it's not like I've suggested trading him for chopped liver.

That's somewhat fair IMO. At least I can understand where you're coming from when you voice those concerns, even if I don't necessarily agree completely with them. But again, I think 22 is far too young to be voicing such strong displeasure, especially considering the crazy season we're in the midst of.

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

That's somewhat fair IMO. At least I can understand where you're coming from when you voice those concerns, even if I don't necessarily agree completely with them. But again, I think 22 is far too young to be voicing such strong displeasure, especially considering the crazy season we're in the midst of.

Would you agree that if he doesn't play consistently good in the second half of the season with the lighter schedule, more home games, more practice time, etc. that it's time for concern? I'm willing to accept that maybe he's just caught up in the funk of a brutal start but the schedule is starting to get a lot easier now, so that excuse won't work for much longer.

 

[Dime Dropper]

Would you agree that if he doesn't play consistently good in the second half of the season with the lighter schedule, more home games, more practice time, etc. that it's time for concern? I'm willing to accept that maybe he's just caught up in the funk of a brutal start but the schedule is starting to get a lot easier now, so that excuse won't work for much longer.

Possibly, it's difficult to answer that question without seeing how exactly he's playing in them. This season is a weird one, and all the young guys are inevitably hurt by lack of training camp, coaching changes, compressed schedule and everything else that has gone on. He just needs to become a little more consistent, which I think will happen once the schedule eases up. I don't think the team is as good as people thought, and people are upset with some of the junk we've seen. Losing Dalembert hurt, and it annoys the hell out of me that Petrie ignores the need for a defensive anchor. We may actually be seeing what we originally thought we would if we had him in there next to Cousins. No point day dreaming about that, though.

 

[ParniValjak]

Some players can still help the team even when they're struggling. When Tyreke is struggling, he's near worthless. At least Wall can still get you 8 or 9 assists a game even when he's not shooting or playing well overall. if the rest of his game comes around, that's a big bonus.

8 or 9 dimes with 6 or 7 turnovers?!

Really getting it done there!

Wall is going to be a star no doubt about it but lets not make it out like he is this hot prospect that even when he struggles he is productive because that is simply not true. When he is struggling he looks flat out terrible as his turnovers seem to sky rocket every time he is struggling.

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

8 or 9 dimes with 6 or 7 turnovers?!

Really getting it done there!

Wall is going to be a star no doubt about it but lets not make it out like he is this hot prospect that even when he struggles he is productive because that is simply not true. When he is struggling he looks flat out terrible as his turnovers seem to sky rocket every time he is struggling.

I know he has his problems too i just think he'd be a better fit. And who knows, maybe Cousins and Wall playing together again would inspire them.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

8 or 9 dimes with 6 or 7 turnovers?!

Wall's career numbers are 8.0 assists and 3.9 turnovers, so if we get the assists right let's try not to oversell those TOs.

 

[ParniValjak]

Wall's career numbers are 8.0 assists and 3.9 turnovers, so if we get the assists right let's try not to oversell those TOs.

Look at the game logs. When Wall is ON, his TOs are well down. However, when he has down games where he looks flat our terrible, he tends to pile up TOs as often as assists. On good days he will give you 9 or 10 assits and 2 or 3 TOs but when he stinks it up, assists numbers tend to get down to the 7 or 8 and TOs up to 5 or 6. Thats the point I was trying to make. I loke Wall and think he will be an absolute superstar but his bad games can be flat out terrible and his TOs tend to take a big increase in those games.

 

[Telemachus]

I posted this in the NBA thread, but thought this would be a good thread to put it in as well. Hoops Consultants did a nice break down of Rubio's game that I thought many here would find interesting

http://www.hoopconsultants.com/2012/01/breakdown-and-analysis-of-ricky-rubio/

 

[AleksandarN]

Rubio appears to be a great player. Still would take Evans, though, a hundred times out of a hundred. I still think he has more upside than Rubio, I'm confident that he'll figure it out, and I'm in no rush, anyway. This team isn't going anywhere, with or without Evans.

Apropos of nothing, purely personally aesthetic preference, both guys were available in '96, knowing what we know now, I'd still take Allen Iverson over Steve Nash.

I would have taken Kobe. Just saying

 

[Capt. Factorial]

I would have taken Kobe. Just saying

Kobe went one pick before we took Peja. I've seen later indications that we would have taken Kobe had he fallen that one extra spot, but who really knows?

Edit: Well, obviously Iverson was NOT available at our pick (though Nash was) so you probably weren't talking about who you would have taken with our pick, just as the #1 overall guy. Never mind.

 

[Gliesian]

I've seen a little bit of Rubio this year and he looks good. So does Tyreke. After reading this thread I would have assumed Rubio's stats would smash Evans' but instead I found his FG % to be a whopping .384. Accounting for his assists, 3 pt shot, Evans defense, overall stats in general for both players, and the teams they play for, I'd say these players are statistically equal. Even their +/- is the same. I do not wish we chose Rubio over Evans because Evans is what any team covets in the final 10 seconds of the last game of the Finals.