Except he would have been playing off the ball in order in order to develop the rest of his game.
Tyreke Offer Sheet. Match or not?
- Thread starter HereWeBoogie
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Except he would have been playing off the ball in order in order to develop the rest of his game.
jcwkings
All-Star
Well i know Bricklayer does, and he seems to be the one that influences his legion. I'm just realistic seeing a player for 4 seasons, and seeing other franchise players. The difference is big. I don't even dislike Tyreke, good guy, can be really good if given the right role, will NEVER be the pg/lead ball handler of a playoff contending team, let alone one that competes for a title. His career actually is reminding me so much of Igoudala. Remember there were a lot of people that pegged Iggy to be the next franchise player for the Sixers. It never worked out that way, but he has become "the Ultimate Role Player", nothing wrong with that. The sooner fans stop expecting a career like Rose, Westbrook, Wade etc. from Tyreke, and start seeing him more as an Igoudala, the merrier we can all be. Those that don't will be highly dissapointed in a few years. But hey Tyreke can prove me wrong, im just basing this off of 4 seasons, which i think is ample sample evidence.
jcwkings
All-Star
No, because Irving is clearly a PG in this league, great undestanding of the game/B ball IQ. The reason Tyreke was moved from the PG spot to begin with is because setting up an offense, making decisions, or anything relating to Basketball IQ overwhelmed him.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
I am a bit curious: roughly 443 players suited up for the NBA last year. Of those 443 how many exactly do you think would have turned the above roster of players and coaches into a winner by the time they were 23 years old?
Say you have a race horse. And that horse has tons of potential. But for 4 races, you have him ridden by an inept jockey who works for a trainer who doesn't know a saddle from a broomstick. Would you give up on the horse or give him an opportunity to show what he can do with a decent trainer and competent jockey? That's how I view Evans' career thus far. I'm more than wiling to see what he can do this year in an atmosphere that isn't poisoned by the financial struggles of the ownership.
Silly VF. If the horse was truly great it would have won the race regardless of who was training and riding it. That horse will NEVER (because I know and my crystal ball is perfect) be great. On the other hand, I have a new horse, BMacHorse. He's never been raced before but I am sure that he will great, because again I know and my crystal ball is perfect.
jcwkings
All-Star
So you view Tyreke as a rookie? You just want to scrap these four seasons as if they never happend? Yes our coaching was terrible, and its arguable whether he was being used right( is he ultimately a better on the ball or off the ball player?). But guess what, he's a pro basketball player, guys like Kobe, Durant, Wade, Lebron came to each season with something new( working on shots, skills etc.). I have seen no improvement in Tyreke's game in four seasons(aside from improving his set shot last year). He has no midrange game, no floaters, baby hooks, or other short shot variants that will vary his overall game, other than being a guy that wants to get all the way to the rim 100% of the time(how many times have we seen Tyreke drive into a wall of defenders, and you are left scratching your head). His defense hasn't improved, he came into the league as a already very good 1 on 1 defender, and he continues to be, but he is a below average team defender who gets lost. Basically Tyreke has shown to be the ultimate 1 on 1 player. If the NBA had a 1 on 1 tournament, Tyreke would be amongst the best. Hey i would like to see Tyreke under stable coaching/ownership too, but im also not gonna lie to myself and ignore what we have seen for four years.
Please. Bricklayer is a loud and consistent voice, he has his opinion and he's not afraid to express it. That doesn't mean that everyone who agrees with him on this or any other issue is a stooge. I disagree with him on other things but it's so clear to me that Tyreke is a unique talent and well worth $11M a year that it's hard for me to understand how anyone else would disagree. The people who don't think we should match have either an inaccurate view of what players cost in 2013 or they're so blinded by their own prejudices (we need a pass-first PG to win!) that they ignore simple logic to repeat the same cockeyed non-arguments over and over again to the point of absurdity. The Spurs are reportedly signing Tiago Splitter to a 4 year $36M deal. Did you watch the Finals this year? He was hurting the team most of the time he was out there in that series, but the Spurs still need his size against 90% of the league and they're prepared to pay market value for it -- 9 million dollars a year for a guy who can barely shoot the ball and chew bubblegum at the same time.
You say Irving, Cousins, and JT is a playoff team? Well great, that's completely unprovable so who's going to counter that? Is it still a playoff team in the East if the coach plays Irving off the ball and instead relies on a bevy of undersized combo guards to run the point? And then there's the fascination some people have with "winners" even when it's proven again and again that good individual players on bad teams lose a ton of games early on in their career and still go on to great success. Lebron James was the best player in the league and still a complete failure as a basketball player until he won 2 gold medals, 2 NBA championships, and 2 Finals MVP awards and now he's the greatest player in the world. I mean really, when are people going to learn? Basketball is a team game. Plenty of players are "proven winners" who lucked their way into good situations and plenty of hall-of-fame players retired without ever winning a championship. What this really comes down to is that some of us recognize talent and are prepared to pay for it while other people are looking for perfect players who don't exist or they're unable to recognize elite talent that doesn't fit inside their box of how the game is supposed to be played. As a PG Tyreke is unique in the league. There's nobody else like him. No team constructed around his talents is going to be conventional, but we drafted him, he's ours to lose right now, and pissing away that talent over a few million dollars in perceived value is the type of short-term thinking which keeps teams floundering in no man's land for decades at a time.
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Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Uncia03
Starter
Just for kicks I decided I wanted to see how much the 3rd largest contract was on the NBA champions teams. Keep in mind that it's now 2013-2014...and we're going to pay Evans 11m/year.
Year Team Player Salary
2012-13 Miami Bosh 17.54m
2011-12 Miami Bosh 17.54m
2010-11 Dallas Butler (Caron) 10.5m
2009-10 LA Bynum 12.5m
2008-09 LA Odom (Lamar) 14.15m
2007-08 Boston Allen (Ray) 16m
So for all of the people who are saying that Tyreke isn't an elite talent and that he is 'at best' the 3rd best player on a good team...what is the issue with paying him 11m/year?
It's clear that it's a bargain compared to what most championship teams have paid for their 3rd player over the last half-dozen years.
Uncia03
Starter
I just don't know how many times people have to say this until it sinks in...but maybe it will never sink in.
The most important ingredient to winning basketball is the ability to get good opportunities close to the rim.
There are a variety of ways to build a team or formulate a plan to get that ball close to the rim.
By far the easiest is to have a dominant big man who can impose his will on the other team.
The 2nd easiest is to have a guard with an elite handle who can break down a defense and get to the rim.
The hardest is to have a complete team offense with superior ball movement and player movement.
Now if you find yourself possessing both a dominant big man and an elite guard who can penetrate then you do everything in your power to base your offense on their talents and surround them with players who compliment their skills.
Tyreke is elite when it comes to breaking down a defense, getting to the rim, and converting there. All the numbers back this up. This is why he is in a different category than AI.
Miami would not have won this year if their shooters (Allen, Miller, Chalmers, Battier) had not knocked down shots. But those shooters would not have had the space to get clean looks if LBJ and Wade did not have the ability to break a defense with their penetration/post work.
Shooting is great. But you know what...if you have a team that is composed fully of shooters they will fail miserably.
Passing is always great. If you have a wizard with the basketball that can make incredible passes it is fun and exciting to watch.
If you have 5 great shooters and one of them also happens to be an elite passer you can have success in the NBA. However, history shows us that you have hardly any chance of actually winning the championship.
There must be a way to break the defense, and typically great passing and shooting is not enough to overcome being either physically dominated by a big man or torn to shreds by an elite penetrator.
It's so very simple.
Surround your dominant big and elite penetrator with good shooting and defense...and you can compete night-in and night-out with any team in the league.
I expect the FO to embrace the obvious this year...and with that I expect the Kings to have good success.
jcwkings
All-Star
I have no problem paying him $11 million, but that now means we would have to find a facilitating SF. A ball dominant player with high usage is not going to be your 3rd best player, he would have to be your first or second best. So basically if we can find a way to keep Tyreke off the ball in a half court offense, i have no problem paying him. I'm just not looking forward to the inevitability of another year of experimenting with Tyreke at PG.
Mad D
Starter
Gross, flexible pieces.
Mass
Starter
Now I'm worried. I hope our FO knows what is doing. We could really regret this decision.
Bosnian Diehard
Starter
We are banking on Cousins becoming a superstar. I think he will but it is still risky. The only thing that could make up for this is getting Andrei Kirilenko, which I doubt we will do.
jcwkings
All-Star
We will see much less Iso play from this team, which means guys like Thornton will have value again. Imagine running double multiple screens with McLemore and Thornton, Vasquez will deliver the rock to them too.
Bosnian Diehard
Starter
How do you know we'd run Iso a lot with Evans at the point? Malone is completely different from Smart and will likely implement changes into how the offense is ran, which could have been shown through Tyreke or any other point guard to play for us.
Ignore him. Reke had a low usage last year but his crowd swears we weren't winning due to his ball dominant, low iq play. Well it's put up or shut up time. Reke's gone and the holy grail of basketball, a pure point is on the way. Let the winning begin.
Bosnian Diehard
Starter
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
While we watch Evans average 22, 7 and 6 in NO.
I don't care what he does in New Orleans, paying to keep him because that's what he could do in New Orleans is the type of thinking that has gotten the Kings into this mess in the first place. Drafting Thomas Robinson because you can't pass up that talent, then re-signing Jason Thompson because you can't just lose that talent, and so on and so on.
Dime Dropper
All-Star
That might be the most idiotic thing I've ever heard, and absolutely miles from the truth.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
There is absolutely NO reason he couldn't do whatever he is going to do elsewhere in Sacramento except for us. We are the problem in that case, not Reke.
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