Tyreke Evans will start from Day One
- Thread starter DocHolliday
- Start date
Wasnt the original plan (at least as was bandied about here on KF) to have Beno eventually move to the bench as a backup PG anyways? Although I believe part of this plan was that he'd be playing behind Rubio.
I think if Beno moves he's probably going to a throw in, the only peice we have that's valuable enough to get another team to swallow the Beno is Kevin. Kevin will probably only get shipped out if Tyreke cant cut it as our PG but beasts at the 2, but if that's the case then we'll need a PG and backup PG still which will leave us stuck with...Beno. A vicious cycle!
Maybe if Rubio comes over we can steal Flynn from Minnie somehow?
I think if Beno moves he's probably going to a throw in, the only peice we have that's valuable enough to get another team to swallow the Beno is Kevin. Kevin will probably only get shipped out if Tyreke cant cut it as our PG but beasts at the 2, but if that's the case then we'll need a PG and backup PG still which will leave us stuck with...Beno. A vicious cycle!
Maybe if Rubio comes over we can steal Flynn from Minnie somehow?
Last edited:
I really don't believe that tactic will work. Hasn't with Thomas, won't with Beno. The only reason for playing him is if he's the best option, be that from the bench or whatever. If he can't play from the bench, and even his first, rather successful season indicated that he can't, and isn't the best option as a starter, then tough, no playing time it is. Being held hostage by such a bloody awful contract again and reasoning whether or not it would be better to play said player, despite better options, just to showcase him is a nightmare I thought to be close to escaping, as Thomas' contract was running out. To have a similar situation just as the other one is about to run out is far too retarded to be an actual nightmare.
Beno will still get a decent amount of time at backup PG. We can slide Tyreke over to the 2 and even ocassionally the 3 when Beno is on the court. Beno had to know this was coming. i'm not viewing him as a KT on this team because he can be a really solid PG off the bench for us. He played pretty well off the bench when we had Bibby and him. Beno will and should still get his 20-25 MPG.
I actually think he's got a pretty good skillset. The willingness and ability to focus and get anything out of it is the problem. He's sloppy and inconsistent mentally, but he can be a good scorer when he's feeling it and will even make the occasional nifty assist off his penetration. Its why he will have the once in a blue moon big game. But he just is horribly inconsistent, soft, doesn;t play D, is full of excuses, and may enjoy the money and celebrity of being an NBA player more than be determined to be great at it. But its not a skillset probelm per se -- if you could stick Gary Payton's hypercompetitive brain into Beno's body/skillset I think he really could be a mediocre starting quality PG. Defense aside, where his athelticiusm is some limit/excuse, I think the problems start much more upstairs. Where's the dedication?
A
we traded bibby with the intention of resigning beno... we didnt trade bibby because of beno but once bibby was traded we all knew that beno would be resigned.... if we wanted another pg at the time we couldve gone after one. acie law couldve been included in the bibby deal but he wasnt. how did it take for beno to be resigned? beno was resigned within the first week of free agency... we had no intentions of adding any other pgs. beno was our starter the minute we traded bibby. thomas was our starter because we couldnt find anyone else. then we sign rahim and then he got injured.... then we signed mikki moore..... and here we are with thompson. thomas is still on the team and isnt even playing.
if we had played bobby as our starter we still couldve won 17 games and we wouldnt be burdened by having a long term contract for a scrub like beno. if beno was meant to be our temporary pg he wouldnt have gotten a 5 year deal that ends with him making 7 million dollars.... petrie gambled on beno and lost. he gambled against rubio, we'll see how that works out. but beno is the new thomas, theres no doubt about it. same could be said about nocioni.
thomas seemed like a useful player as well when he first came here just like nocioni. people thought he could be 6th man of the year material... he was a decent defender for his size, a tough, hustling undersized pf that could play sf a lil and a good rebounder as well. but as time went by we all realized that he was nothing more than an overpaid scrub. when people around here describe nocioni i swear that they are describing thomas from 2006....
only time will tell... but i bet i will be right about both of them... not to mention a rookie who will remain nameless.... yeah, i'm asking for it. i cant seem to just let it go. whatever.....
if we had played bobby as our starter we still couldve won 17 games and we wouldnt be burdened by having a long term contract for a scrub like beno. if beno was meant to be our temporary pg he wouldnt have gotten a 5 year deal that ends with him making 7 million dollars.... petrie gambled on beno and lost. he gambled against rubio, we'll see how that works out. but beno is the new thomas, theres no doubt about it. same could be said about nocioni.
thomas seemed like a useful player as well when he first came here just like nocioni. people thought he could be 6th man of the year material... he was a decent defender for his size, a tough, hustling undersized pf that could play sf a lil and a good rebounder as well. but as time went by we all realized that he was nothing more than an overpaid scrub. when people around here describe nocioni i swear that they are describing thomas from 2006....
only time will tell... but i bet i will be right about both of them... not to mention a rookie who will remain nameless.... yeah, i'm asking for it. i cant seem to just let it go. whatever.....
I think I was confused. I thought you were comparing the acquisition of Kenny with the signing of Beno's contract -- obviously under both circumstances we didn't have another option at PF/PG at the time (because Webber went the other way for Thomas). In that vein, I think signing Beno was not a horrible move and was certainly justifiable at the time, though last year his play was not what we had hoped it would be.
But what you were actually talking about was the possibility of Beno starting this year, and saying that it's not justifiable, unlike KT. I agree on that. My bad.
But what you were actually talking about was the possibility of Beno starting this year, and saying that it's not justifiable, unlike KT. I agree on that. My bad.
A
yeah and we got bobby jackson a month later... if we hadnt already signed beno and just had bobby we would all say that we would only win 17 games last season. oddly enough beno really didnt show up and we only won 17 games... with 4 years left on the contract its 10 times worse than thomas' contract at the time. if he werent such a crybaby thomas couldve been a really useful bench player. beno on the other hand is straight garbage, there is no getting around it. sergio is a better pg and there is a good chance that evans is a better player without even playing a single nba game. we could sign a cheap back up pg for a year or 2 and we wouldnt lose anything in the process. we dont need beno. id rather have thomas for 2 more years than beno for 4.
I don't agree in comparing Nocioni with Beno. Nocioni is better player and has a winner attitude. Nothing to see with Beno. When he played here in TAU Vitoria he was lethal and he won 2 cups and a spanish league being almost the franchise player, and well, ACB has not the level of the NBA but is probably the 2nd basketball league in the world. And TAU Vitoria has reached some euroleague final four this decade, its not "any" team
I think the only reason because he hasn't flourished yet in the NBA it's because of the injuries, but if he's ok during the season he'll be awesome off the bench, as he's yet in the team when the season starts and he should have passed the shock of being traded. He still can have 2 years playing at a great, great level. And even if he wont, it will be because of the injuries (let's pray he doesn't), but not because of his attitude. That's Beno problem, it seems he's OK with his millions and don't care about nothing more. I think Chapu will play pretty well this year.
I think the only reason because he hasn't flourished yet in the NBA it's because of the injuries, but if he's ok during the season he'll be awesome off the bench, as he's yet in the team when the season starts and he should have passed the shock of being traded. He still can have 2 years playing at a great, great level. And even if he wont, it will be because of the injuries (let's pray he doesn't), but not because of his attitude. That's Beno problem, it seems he's OK with his millions and don't care about nothing more. I think Chapu will play pretty well this year.
Last edited:
A
nocioni can be a very useful player on a contending team. but for a 17 win team there isnt much he can do. just like thomas wasnt much help for us but could help another team nocioni isnt the player for this team if we are content on just keeping our young players and building a team that way. we trade for a real superstar then nocioni becomes a lot more useful... i love the amount of his contract just not the length.
If a player can be useful on a contending team, a team that has a lot of talent and despite the amount of talent on that team he's able to find minutes, then he certainly can be useful on a bad team. Just plain logic deems it so. But there's a difference between being useful, and making a significant difference in the overall ability of the team to win games. A team is the sum of its parts. The better the parts, the better the team. Its that simple. If a player is a good enough player to play on a good team, then he's certainly a good enough player to play on a bad team, and hopefully contribute to improving that team.
But if your saying that long term, he shouldn't be in the plans of the team. I can see that. On his age if nothing else. I also understand what your saying about him probably being more valuable to a contending team, than he would be to a 17 win team. But from a selfish point of view, no matter how painful it may be for him, if he's able to help us win a few more games, and at the same time lend maturity and experience to a very young team, then he's worth having on the team.
On the subject of Beno. I'm certainly not going to defend him. But I will defend his signing to a certain extent. He did play well for a half a season, and, the Kings have taken gambles on players with somewhat tainted pasts before. Bonzi, Webber, Jackson, etc. I guess at some point, your luck runs out. I will admit having reservations at the time. But there were a couple of other teams bidding for him, and the market was somewhat sparse at the time where point guards were concerned. There's no doubt that his signing was insurance against the Bibby trade. They had to have someone to play the point going into the season. Whether they could have had A.C. Law included in the deal is nothing but speculation. In hindsight, it turned out to be a bad signing, at least so far. Hopefully he can be a good backup, and maybe raise his value around the league.
But if your saying that long term, he shouldn't be in the plans of the team. I can see that. On his age if nothing else. I also understand what your saying about him probably being more valuable to a contending team, than he would be to a 17 win team. But from a selfish point of view, no matter how painful it may be for him, if he's able to help us win a few more games, and at the same time lend maturity and experience to a very young team, then he's worth having on the team.
On the subject of Beno. I'm certainly not going to defend him. But I will defend his signing to a certain extent. He did play well for a half a season, and, the Kings have taken gambles on players with somewhat tainted pasts before. Bonzi, Webber, Jackson, etc. I guess at some point, your luck runs out. I will admit having reservations at the time. But there were a couple of other teams bidding for him, and the market was somewhat sparse at the time where point guards were concerned. There's no doubt that his signing was insurance against the Bibby trade. They had to have someone to play the point going into the season. Whether they could have had A.C. Law included in the deal is nothing but speculation. In hindsight, it turned out to be a bad signing, at least so far. Hopefully he can be a good backup, and maybe raise his value around the league.
A
i mentioned law because oddly enough he was traded a year later... that and all of the hawks message boards that i went to mentioned that the team was shopping him. i go to boards for a lot of teams, not just this one and everyone was talking about how he was available. when the bibby trade was announced i thought that we would get law but we didnt. i was against signing beno from the beginning. the sad part is that now the knicks are trying to sign session for mle. we wouldve had the cash to offer more money had we not signed beno and just waited....
we gained nothing for trading bibby... unless someone thinks signing beno to a 5 year contract for playing well for half a season... well almost an entire season but he wasnt very good.
we gained nothing for trading bibby... unless someone thinks signing beno to a 5 year contract for playing well for half a season... well almost an entire season but he wasnt very good.
This.
As always, it hasn't to be black or white, it's not a question of seeing these older players as if only they're stealing minutes from the younger. The psychological development it's also important. I think it's very important to have some experienced, important players in a very young team so they can learn to be cold-headed from anyone else appart the coach. Not a lot of them and not too important, but precissely players as Nocioni (winner attitude, speaks three languages, good temperament) that can be the perfect glue for a chaotic, international and very young team. But of course you have reason that he's not the perfect player for this team in a long term.
I also think the Beno contract was mostly bad luck and at the time it was more reasonable, as bajaden is saying...but the 5 years duration was too risky.
As always, it hasn't to be black or white, it's not a question of seeing these older players as if only they're stealing minutes from the younger. The psychological development it's also important. I think it's very important to have some experienced, important players in a very young team so they can learn to be cold-headed from anyone else appart the coach. Not a lot of them and not too important, but precissely players as Nocioni (winner attitude, speaks three languages, good temperament) that can be the perfect glue for a chaotic, international and very young team. But of course you have reason that he's not the perfect player for this team in a long term.
I also think the Beno contract was mostly bad luck and at the time it was more reasonable, as bajaden is saying...but the 5 years duration was too risky.
Don’t get me wrong, I want Tyreke to play as many minutes as possible. I don’t want him on the bench just so we can showcase Beno. But I do want Beno to get enough minutes in the first several months so we can trade him. I don’t want to see him on the bench for the next 3-4 years of his career. Tyreke should play so he should get a handle of the team/game/get his mistakes down, but Beno needs to be moved and I am hoping that he can produce in a short amount of time and get some teams interested enough to trade for him. If he can come in here motivated like he did when he first got here, he might be movable.
If Beno wants more floor time he can earn it. I hope he does as he's very capable but Tyreke is the future and he'll just have to deal with it. Even if he wants out, he'll have to play better to facilitate a trade.
Comptition can be a good thing as hopefully it will ignite some fire back into this poor Slov.
Comptition can be a good thing as hopefully it will ignite some fire back into this poor Slov.
While we are on the subject, Beno is the closest thing we have to a floor general. He, unlike Sergio is satisfied with a game in which he distributes the ball. And in the NBA, that type of personality is worth something because it is quite rare. Name more than 3 players who are satisfied as a pure point, distributing and filling in where he can? Jason Kidd, Beno Udrih........CP3(maybe)....most of these guys have big heads, and want to score because scoring is sexy, and it will get them a big payday. Beno has a solid AST average and there is no reason his average will go down. I would like to reserve my judgement for him until next season because he has all the tools to become a very very efficient player, and he is only 25. Petrie said to Beno while serving him up with a sizable contract, "Will you try your hardest in a kings uniform? Good. We think you need to work on your X, here is a contract, now you have NBA level respect, shock the world." Other than Evans, Beno will be the main ballhandler, and if Evans goes down, or isn't playing like he is billed(highly unlikely) Beno still has the chops to start and start effectively. Udrih is new still, his first year was interesting; But, last year was dissatisfying. I wouldn't be so quick to judge him because he is still fitting in to the team and to his own body. This guy doesn't know the half of his potential because, we see flashes of it. And you guys know what im talking about. Beno has some talent, uncanny talent. I agree he played his way into this conversation, but lets remember he has the ability to play himself out of this thread as well.
A
since when was beno a pass first pg? i thought he was more of a wanna be scoring pg. if he didnt take so many dumb shots maybe...
but im definitely sure that sergio is a pure pass first pg who isnt looking to score. if he can get someone an easy shot he'll make the pass regardless of the risks. he doesnt want to shoot it himself unless its a layup, he isnt a very good shooter.
but im definitely sure that sergio is a pure pass first pg who isnt looking to score. if he can get someone an easy shot he'll make the pass regardless of the risks. he doesnt want to shoot it himself unless its a layup, he isnt a very good shooter.
Ive never seen beno take a bad shot. Sergio will need to prove his per 48 is not just a per 48 before i judge his floor general ability. with beno we have more of a baseline in which to judge. I think you are right to argue against beno using that per 48, but i think that stat might be a false indication of ability. good point fonordius
I've seen Beno force countless bad shots after getting himself in trouble coming off a pick and roll. I don't think Beno has great vision, and when he gets into the lane he often misses cutters or guys spotting up, and instead forces up tough, contested jumpers.
I still think Beno is a better scorer than Sergio, but Beno does get himself into tough situations where a pg with better vision wouldn't have the same problems.
I still think Beno is a better scorer than Sergio, but Beno does get himself into tough situations where a pg with better vision wouldn't have the same problems.
You can try and make a case for Beno as a shoot first pt guard if you want to. As a matter of fact, I won't even question his intent. I just question the result that I've seen with my own eyes. I think Beno lacks court vision. He doesn't see the open man, too often.
I would agree that Sergio hasn't played enough minutes to make a resonable judgement on what his real 48 per would be. But I do know that you have to twist one of his arms behind his back to get him to shoot the ball. I mean, in Spain, he was Rubio before there was a Rubio.
I would agree that Sergio hasn't played enough minutes to make a resonable judgement on what his real 48 per would be. But I do know that you have to twist one of his arms behind his back to get him to shoot the ball. I mean, in Spain, he was Rubio before there was a Rubio.