Try to Be Good Soon or Stay Bad?

[vikinginferno]

I have seen some different opinions in this forum as to whether the Kings should try their best to get much better next season and win much more soon or to stay bad for another yearto be able to get another top lottery pick. I'm hoping to get a poll of it and see which option more people would like. It would also be great to explain why you chose the option you chose.

The first option would likely include going after FAs that are more than to just fill a roster spot and making trades to try and get the team better soon.

The second option would likely include getting low salary players to fill the roster and doing trades to help in a few years. This would be more like what Portland or OKC is doing.

Personally, I believe it would be best to be in the lower tier of teams again next year. It is very likely that our pick won't turn into a superstar and might not even come close. If we are able to nab another top player in the 2010 draft I think we could be very good by 2011 and probably get a FA in 2010 and maybe a few trades.

 

[Entity]

I have seen some different opinions in this forum as to whether the Kings should try their best to get much better next season and win much more soon or to stay bad to be able to get another top lottery pick. I'm hoping to get a poll of it and see which option more people would like. It would also be great to explain why you chose the option you chose.

The first option would likely include going after FAs that are more than to just fill a roster spot and making trades to try and get the team better soon.

The second option would likely include getting low salary players to fill the roster and doing trades to help in a few years.

I would like to see some improvment over this year as would most fans. With a new coach a top pick and the futher development of Thompson and Hawes. If we are just as bad next year as we were this year then Sacramento may lose this franchise. We have to show that the direction is changing. 25-30 wins if we stand pat + the #1 pick. Now if we get a FA that is a star or at least a drastic improvment + the #1 pick then we should shoot for the 30-40 win bracket.

 

[GameBall]

Try to get good soon and that's a very easy decision for me. With the low attendance, and no enthusiasm for the team in this community and the Laker fans dominating the arena the last couple years we matched up against them, and all the false starts with the coaching and the bad contracts and decision making, this team needs to get better now. That means getting a real coach, and hoping the lottery goes our way so we can get Blake Griffin, or if not, then get the best player available (preferably point guard).

 

[BLNINJA #81]

I voted to stay "bad"

It's probably needed for one more year before it could be turned around (in my opinion anyway).

 

[Sptsjunkie]

I vote for an in between option. I don't want shrot sighted free agent signings, but I want our players to develop and the team to improve. I wouldn't want a disasterous season that starts to develop a losing culture around here.

So I vote for C - Organic progress and improvement from all of our young players with a reasonable FA signing that makes sense.

 

[rhythmless]

this question really is too complex for a poll. At the end of the day, you see what you have, what you expect out of what you have, what you think you can do in the open market.

When dealing with so many variables and dynamics, you cannot choose one set way. Boston was going for rebuild mode with young kids, anticipating a high draft pick (perhaps oden/durant). They instead came up with the 5th pick, and swung many maneuvers from option 2 to option 1 in a quick little span. You just dont know...

Also, I don't think anyone plans to stay bad. You do what you can with what you have, looking towards a future in which your plans can culminate into a championship. I think the prudent thing to do is look at your options. If a couple quick ones can turn you from doormat to contender, you decide if it is worth giving up a potential window later on down the line. Otherwise, you build as you can, continuing to build up talent that is cohesive, hoping that enough of your talent will peak at the right time for a championship.

There is no answer to what you are asking. You must be flexible to the ever changing landscape of the NBA.

 

[SacKings7]

This is a bit vague IMO. I don't want any "rebuild on the fly" moves that'll make us a borderline playoff team for a few years. So I think we should rebuild properly. But at the same time if there's a move or moves that can put us back into contention then there's no question we have to do it/them. So, I'm gonna vote for option C as well.

 

[Bricklayer]

This is a tough question. I have been a major proponent of a true rebuild, and of not shortarming it, but there is this feeling that we are at some sort of crossroads here. Staying bad for another year is probably still the correct tactical move, and it would be very brave, but if it does not work out you are in real danger of just falling into a pit from which you can't get out.

That's still a better option than a return to the nauseating boring veterans for the #8 seed route. But if you have a chance to make bold moves, like Petrie did back in '98/'99 BTW coming off our last disastrous season, I think you have to take that route. I can imagine scenarios wherein we return to respectability next year with a lot of room to grow.

 

[Vlade4GM]

Make moves that are geared towards the future and rebuilding (focusing on young guys with potential and building cap space), and whatever good opportunities that arise that fit those parameters then take them. IF we follow the rebuilding format then whatever record we get is what we get. Going after veterans with big/long deals that won't be apart of the hopeful future contending core is a waste of time and cap space.

 

[steelevt]

i chose try to be good soon. if we somehow become a .500 team next season, i think we are moving in the right direction. i know alot of you dont want a mediocre team, but we have to start turning this team around as opposed to dwelling at the bottom forever. i dont think continually drafting in the lottery alone is the best way to build a team. this team should be built on draft/FA/trades etc. after this years draft we have our draft, with a FA or a trade, i'm aiming for .500 or close, then continue to build the team chemistry and get better.

my reasoning for all this is modeled around the much hated lakers. after the 04-05 season they were sub .500 and didnt make the playoffs. instead of blowing up the team, they continued with their team +/- fa/trades and for the next couple years they stayed around the 7-8 seed in the playoffs. (which for some reason alot of people here dont want for the kings). but with a team that is playoff bound, one major trade or FA signing can turn a 7-8 seed into a top contender. all of a sudden this "mediocre" team is one of the top of the league. i know they have kobe and we dont, but i just believe that with the core, making the playoffs now is the right direction, instead of continuing to stay bad and hoping an unproven draft pick will turn things around.

 

[Bricklayer]

i chose try to be good soon. if we somehow become a .500 team next season, i think we are moving in the right direction. i know alot of you dont want a mediocre team, but we have to start turning this team around as opposed to dwelling at the bottom forever. i dont think continually drafting in the lottery alone is the best way to build a team. this team should be built on draft/FA/trades etc. after this years draft we have our draft, with a FA or a trade, i'm aiming for .500 or close, then continue to build the team chemistry and get better.

my reasoning for all this is modeled around the much hated lakers. after the 04-05 season they were sub .500 and didnt make the playoffs. instead of blowing up the team, they continued with their team +/- fa/trades and for the next couple years they stayed around the 7-8 seed in the playoffs. (which for some reason alot of people here dont want for the kings). but with a team that is playoff bound, one major trade or FA signing can turn a 7-8 seed into a top contender. all of a sudden this "mediocre" team is one of the top of the league. i know they have kobe and we dont, but i just believe that with the core, making the playoffs now is the right direction, instead of continuing to stay bad and hoping an unproven draft pick will turn things around.

The having Kobe and we don't is the entire problem though. The Lakers had their superstar, so they did not absolutely need to nab one in the draft (although if they had there wouldn't be any of these questions now if Kobe will ever win another title). When New Orleans got awful, they nabbed Paul when Orlando got awful, they nabbed Howard. When Cleveland got awful they nabbed LeBron. That's the way 90% of all titles are won. And if that sort of talent were there in this draft, the answer would be obvious. The entire difficulty is that we don't have Kobe and we got awful for a draft that probably doesn't have him in it either. And so yeah you go ahead and build anyway, and about the time you are trying to somehow put the roof on you realize that you never got the foundation laid properly.

 

[steelevt]

The having Kobe and we don't is the entire problem though. The Lakers had their superstar, so they did not absolutely need to nab one in the draft (although if they had there wouldn't be any of these questions now if Kobe will ever win another title). When New Orleans got awful, they nabbed Paul when Orlando got awful, they nabbed Howard. When Cleveland got awful they nabbed LeBron. That's the way 90% of all titles are won. And if that sort of talent were there in this draft, the answer would be obvious. The entire difficulty is that we don't have Kobe and we got awful for a draft that probably doesn't have him in it either. And so yeah you go ahead and build anyway, and about the time you are trying to somehow put the roof on you realize that you never got the foundation laid properly.

you're correct but to a point. those players that were nabbed weren't a sure thing. bobcats had top 3 picks twice but didnt turn their team around, bucks and raptors havent really done anything with their #1 pick, seattle/okc, minny and memphis have annual top 10 picks and are still at the bottom of the league. my point is the draft is a crap shoot. first you have to win the draft to get the #1, then who you pick isnt a guaranteed player that would turn your team around. like i said you have a point, getting that "star" from the draft will definitely jumpstart our rebuild, but if you continue to be bad and wait and hope to one day grab a future allstar/HoF player, you just might be waiting for what seems like forever. kobe wasnt a top 10 pick, dallas and detroit were able to build teams without top 5 picks, and denver even though they had melo, didnt become a division leader til billups came, through a trade.

edit. sorry the last line about denver wasnt correct, but my point is melo alone didnt do it, getting help through a trade or FA made the team better.

 

[vikinginferno]

you're correct but to a point. those players that were nabbed weren't a sure thing. bobcats had top 3 picks twice but didnt turn their team around, bucks and raptors havent really done anything with their #1 pick, seattle/okc, minny and memphis have annual top 10 picks and are still at the bottom of the league. my point is the draft is a crap shoot. first you have to win the draft to get the #1, then who you pick isnt a guaranteed player that would turn your team around. like i said you have a point, getting that "star" from the draft will definitely jumpstart our rebuild, but if you continue to be bad and wait and hope to one day grab a future allstar/HoF player, you just might be waiting for what seems like forever. kobe wasnt a top 10 pick, dallas and detroit were able to build teams without top 5 picks, and denver even though they had melo, didnt become a division leader til billups came, through a trade.

edit. sorry the last line about denver wasnt correct, but my point is melo alone didnt do it, getting help through a trade or FA made the team better.

Yeah, but the point is that you pretty much need a player that is a "star". I don't think we have that player yet and I am thinking it is pretty likely we won't get a star this draft, but probably a very good player. If we are able to get a very high pick in 2010 then I think we could be very good the next year.

 

[Sptsjunkie]

This is a tough question. I have been a major proponent of a true rebuild, and of not shortarming it, but there is this feeling that we are at some sort of crossroads here. Staying bad for another year is probably still the correct tactical move, and it would be very brave, but if it does not work out you are in real danger of just falling into a pit from which you can't get out.

That's still a better option than a return to the nauseating boring veterans for the #8 seed route. But if you have a chance to make bold moves, like Petrie did back in '98/'99 BTW coming off our last disastrous season, I think you have to take that route. I can imagine scenarios wherein we return to respectability next year with a lot of room to grow.

I think I actually misread the questions slightly. Brick basically nailed what I war trying to communicate. Good work.

 

[Sptsjunkie]

you're correct but to a point. those players that were nabbed weren't a sure thing. bobcats had top 3 picks twice but didnt turn their team around, bucks and raptors havent really done anything with their #1 pick, seattle/okc, minny and memphis have annual top 10 picks and are still at the bottom of the league. my point is the draft is a crap shoot. first you have to win the draft to get the #1, then who you pick isnt a guaranteed player that would turn your team around. like i said you have a point, getting that "star" from the draft will definitely jumpstart our rebuild, but if you continue to be bad and wait and hope to one day grab a future allstar/HoF player, you just might be waiting for what seems like forever. kobe wasnt a top 10 pick, dallas and detroit were able to build teams without top 5 picks, and denver even though they had melo, didnt become a division leader til billups came, through a trade.

edit. sorry the last line about denver wasnt correct, but my point is melo alone didnt do it, getting help through a trade or FA made the team better.

There's truth to needing to put a good team around a superstar. However, the problem with the examples you are using is that the fault lied with the GMs who made the poor decisions, not the process of rebuilding through the draft itself. If the Bucks had nabbed Chris Paul instead of Bogut, thier fortunes would be much different right now. If the Bobcats had nabbed Roy instead of Morrison, their fortunes would be much different right now. The same can be said for all the other teams except maybe OKC who have a really bright future and could be even closer if they hadn't swung and missed on Petro, Sene, and Swift before Presti took over.

The point is you need to have good talent evaluators to reap the rewards of being bad. Team's that just have bad GMs tend to be bad until those individuals are purged.

 

[VF21]

We're at the bottom of the barrel. Any improvement we show will be a step towards "good"... I strongly believe that with a new coach and healthy players we'll be fun to watch and I think we'll win our share of games on the way towards putting the pieces back together into a new big picture.

 

[fnordius]

I voted "stay bad," but you're assuming this is a FO choice, and I'm not.

I feel quite sure that the team will be better next year than this year. The unloading of old enders and the 3 draft picks we have are enough to ensure that, and that's fine. But, since Oscar Robertson, Wilt Chamberlain and Michael Jordan won't be our picks this summer, I'm thinking we'll be headed for the lottery again a year from now. Hawes, JT and Donte still have too much left to learn, and then there are the 3 incoming rookies.

If Geoff/Maloofs pick up any veteran bandaids this summer, I'm going to be extremely ticked. The rebuild steps are (1) unload everyone over 25, (2) replace them with kids, (3) develop the kids. We did #1 fairly completely, but #2 and #3 have some ways to go still. Doing anything other than #2 and #3 will be runing and wasting everything Geoff just did.

So we should expect to be fairly bad next year, because it's as much as we can do without shooting ourselves in the foot. Absolutely no tanking required.

 

[VF21]

Every team that has won a championship has had at least some veteran presence. I'm sorry but I think your #1 is ... well ... #2.

Do you know how old Garcia and Martin are for example?

 

[RiffRaff]

ide much rather see our young players make the playoffs next year. Maybe even after that other players will have more faith in our young core and wanna sign with us in 2010

 

[Pangloss]

It has been said elsewhere (better than I can articulate myself) that the days of innocence for our fan base have long since passed. For good or ill, we have tasted from the fruit of knowledge of championship caliber basketball--and while some fans may still be predisposed to believe a red-haired hucksters' claims that our Richard Hamilton is really the next D-Wade, or that our Rik Smits is really the second coming of Bill Walton-- the amount of fans who will not has hit a critical mass. Those cautioning about the health of our franchise if we lose big for one more year would be well advised to note their vision (or lack thereof) and the slow death it will most likely provide, doesn't have a record of success, while building through the draft demonstrably does. Kings fans know what an elite basketball team looks like because we used to have one. We know what elite talent looks like because we have seen it first hand, for 82 games a year. Fans want those days to return, and even the anxious ones who want to spend on quick, ineffectual band-aids will eventually grow apathetic when they realize the team has simply replaced Shareef and Salmons with Beno and Nate(or Hedo for that matter).

The sirens song to mediocrity that is overpaying marginal free-agents in a misguided quest to win 30 games must be resisted. Replicating our team of two years ago, making the same mistakes and yet expecting different results is madness. We have already seen this movie: first guys get built up (by little fault of their own) as something they are not; next is the part where, after years of failing to meet unreasonable expectations, said players are made scapegoats by the frustrated fan base, while the propaganda machine continues to portray them as "stars"; finally, the movie ends with us trading our guys for pennies on the dollar, after which formerly celebrated players can get stabbed in the back by some of the same people who built them up-- once said players have safely left town of course. We will be back to square one, and once again we will be presented with a choice: do we do what is necessary, or once again follow the same myopic path that lead to ruin and choose what is easy.

The only way this team will ever again contend for a championship is if it can somehow acquire a superstar. The Lakers, Cavs, Spurs, Celtics, and Magic all have guys who fit the bill--even non-contending teams like the Hornets, Jazz, and Heat have their guys. Any hope that this team is going to build a contender around the pieces we now have and this years draft picks, and overcome teams with genuine superstars is, imo, a false hope.


If we can rebuild through a trade and avoid another down year, then so much the better. Typically, however, the draft is where champions are made, and if we are unable to swing a deal to acquire a superstar, the draft is still the best if not only hope that this team will ever reach the heights it once aspired to.

 

[Amory]

Not enough options in the poll...

That being said, I voted to get good now. We had our aweful year and, hopefully, that gets us an allstar player.

Draft picks + FA + trades and I think we can get together a decent team.

 

[fnordius]

Every team that has won a championship has had at least some veteran presence. I'm sorry but I think your #1 is ... well ... #2.

Do you know how old Garcia and Martin are for example?

I know the ages of our players.

Last year, Mr. Citrus posted, opining that Kevin Martin was the oldest player we should retain through the rebuild. He did not make exceptions for Garcia or Udrih, and while I like what Garcia brings to most of his games, I have to agree. What we see now is Garcia, the finished product. Olympic athletes peak, on average, at 23. NBA players tend to improve their game until they're 27 or 28. Udrih turns 27 in a few months, in Nov-Dec Garcia will turn 28 and Nocioni will turn 30. Udrih has been playing ball professionally for 9 years and has 2 NBA rings. Can we stop acting like he's a kid now? He's not developing, he's done, stick a fork in him already.

Every team needs some veteran presence, sure. But what proportion of their team needs to be that veteran presence? Take a look at Portland, they have 4 rookies, 3 second year players, and 3 third year. What about us? We've got 2 rookies, 1 second year player, and our only third year player is Simmons, who has already cleaned out his locker. Where Portland has a few veterans leading 10 kids, we have a pack of veterans leading 3 kids. We don't need more veteran presence.

 

[kupman]

I think that those who vote for "stay bad" should also have to include a plan for the Kings to pay their bills with Arco only 50% filled, no nationally televised games, no play-off games, the negative impact that a losing team has upon commercial spots on local t.v. etc.

 

[TTown Kings]

Draft picks + FA + trades and I think we can get together a decent team.

My only issue with this is that a "decent" team isn't good enough for me. I want a team that will be a championship contender. I'd rather have a bad team for a few years, which will in turn compete for a ring, then a "decent" team that will never be able to get over the hump.

 

[sidney]

My only issue with this is that a "decent" team isn't good enough for me. I want a team that will be a championship contender. I'd rather have a bad team for a few years, which will in turn compete for a ring, then a "decent" team that will never be able to get over the hump.

There is a difference between a decent, young team on the rise and a decent veteran team hoping to sneak into the playoffs. Examples I can think of are Portland last year (still out of the playoffs) vs Phoenix this year. Similar records but a world of difference.

As long as we are decent while using young potential guys rather than signing 30yo+ retreads, I want to get better now.

 

[Vlade4GM]

There is a difference between a decent, young team on the rise and a decent veteran team hoping to sneak into the playoffs. Examples I can think of are Portland last year (still out of the playoffs) vs Phoenix this year. Similar records but a world of difference.

As long as we are decent while using young potential guys rather than signing 30yo+ retreads, I want to get better now.

Fair enough, but just because it's a young team doesn't mean that the core has the potential to be a championship contender either. I don't think we're there yet, we may get a surprise in the draft but for right now I don't think it's reasonable to assume we're done by next year. We may need another high pick to get at shot at that last core piece.

 

[TheFifthMookie]

I didn't vote in this poll since it doesn't make any sense.

Obviously we all want the team to do better next year. The question is: "how much better and by what means?" Stand pat and watch some guys develop? (most potential for long term advancement), or sign a few mid-level guys who can take us out of the dumpster and get us to #8 or just missing the playoffs?

How many Mikki Moore, Beno Udrih and Shareef style signings do you want? Because if we did a few of them, the team would certainly be better next year, but the ceiling would be fairly low.

 

[MassachusettsKingsFan]

I didnt vote because I think we will be better next year without make huge moves.

With the added draft picks ( hopefully at least 1 player that will make a positive impact THIS year ) and potential FA ( Sessions best case scenario unless we draft a PG) We can see this team jump to 30 wins. That is still nothing to brag about, but its an 11 win increase from this season and I think that number will continue to grow.

If we keep this team how it is now and add another top pick and were at the bottom of the league again next year, then we have some problems.

Were at the point were we hit rock bottom, and if things go as planned and how they should, our record should continue to increase by 10 or so games each season until we finnish 82-0 and win the title =]

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I don't want to be as awful for another season as we were this season, but the reality is that we are still going to need probably one more season with a high lotto pick. If we draft a player that gets the whole town talking it will pay for itself. I'm not sure that player is in this draft nor is there a big enough name free agent that will automatically draw people in. In Portland that player was Greg Oden and he hasn't even been the cornerstone of their success. But he was the one that got season ticket sales moving again and Portland now feels like Sacto in 99 or 2000. Its great to see but sickening at the same time, and as a Kings fan I am envious. In any event, if we keep moving on an Arena plan then I don't think the Kings will move so there is room for another year or two of dwindling attendance before we need to worry about selling out the new arena.

 

[sidney]

Fair enough, but just because it's a young team doesn't mean that the core has the potential to be a championship contender either. I don't think we're there yet, we may get a surprise in the draft but for right now I don't think it's reasonable to assume we're done by next year. We may need another high pick to get at shot at that last core piece.

I should say that if this summer consists of
picking with our pick 1-4
draft two Donte talent level rookies with our late 2 picks
resign McCants and Diogu to reasonable deals

then I will agree with you and be extremely disappointed and think we need another year in the cellar to acquire more talent.

My expectation though is that we will go into next year with 2 or maybe 3 major impact players added. Our high pick would be the first. We're under the cap in a year that is more valuable than ever, essentially have 2 late first round picks, have expiring contracts coming into a big FA summer next year. We even have a semi valuable fiery veteran piece in Nocioni who has a descending 3 year deal. Could be interesting to a disappointed contender. Those are a lot of tools to work with. Let's hope they are used wisely