Truehoop article on Tyreke's season and situation
- Thread starter swisshh
- Start date
I don't have any confidence that the team will draft a PG, but it should be at the top of their list as a needed position. I don't even believe there is a decent PG in the draft that's projected as a lottery pick. If I am wrong about that please correct me. I don't believe there is one. So that leaves trading for one, or signing a FA. It upsets me that a lot of us here were wanting Jrue Holiday, Dragic, Chalmers, Lawson and a few others in different drafts. Maybe next year eh?
We can't go on having opposing teams packing the paint and in effect taking away both our drive game and post game at the same time just because they see that Evans is handling the ball.
We can't go on having opposing teams packing the paint and in effect taking away both our drive game and post game at the same time just because they see that Evans is handling the ball.
I have, on multiple occasions, stated for the record that your assessment of Evans' skills, and relative lack thereof, as a guard have been fair (which I know must gall you, seeing as how much I know you like me). A bit on the obnoxious side (Yeah, yeah, I know: pot, kettle. Deal with it), but fair. But, since 1) I don't really care about offense, and 2) we don't value the same skillset out of a guard, I'm pretty sure I never have, and never will, say that you're "right" about Evans. I think that you're, generally, accurate, in terms of what Evans can or can't do, but I also tend to think that you're wrong, in terms of why you think what he can't do is so important.
What? What you're saying in this paragraph is so muddled I don't even know how to respond. Evans being on the floor makes it impossible for the rest of the team to play offense because he forces the other team to pack the paint -- okay, that point alone is highly debatable. But then you take it further and say we're forced into being a jumpshooting team because one guy can't hit a jump shot and jumpshooting teams are inherently inconsistent. Well which is it man? Because if your final point is the crux of your argument that's exactly the reason I was arguing that Tyreke should have a bigger role in the offense -- because he's gets his points primarily off of high percentage takes to the basket and free throws.
You continue to insist that Tyreke "can't see the floor" but then how do you explain that he not only leads the team in assists this season, but has led the team in assists all four seasons that he's been on the team? It used to be people would say that he's bound to lead the team in assists when he's got the ball in his hands all the time but when he's 7th in usage% and still leads the team in assists can you still use that excuse? I brought up Rondo before as an example of a player who's thrived in a structured offense despite his inability to hit a jumpshot. Do you know how often you'll see four Boston players standing around watching Rondo handle the ball? Never. Because it doesn't happen. Do I even need to ask the next question? It answers itself.
But I'm not a Tyreke fan (or a "hugger" to use your term), I'm a Sacramento Kings fan. Always have been. I'm sure I have opinions about every player on this team that somebody would disagree with. Evans gets a lot of attention because he's a high profile player, but we can have a discussion about James Johnson or Aaron Brooks or whoever and someone is going to say we need to trade them and someone else is going to say we need to keep them and trade someone else. You don't have to marginalize people's opinions just because you disagree with them.
You continue to insist that Tyreke "can't see the floor" but then how do you explain that he not only leads the team in assists this season, but has led the team in assists all four seasons that he's been on the team? It used to be people would say that he's bound to lead the team in assists when he's got the ball in his hands all the time but when he's 7th in usage% and still leads the team in assists can you still use that excuse? I brought up Rondo before as an example of a player who's thrived in a structured offense despite his inability to hit a jumpshot. Do you know how often you'll see four Boston players standing around watching Rondo handle the ball? Never. Because it doesn't happen. Do I even need to ask the next question? It answers itself.
But I'm not a Tyreke fan (or a "hugger" to use your term), I'm a Sacramento Kings fan. Always have been. I'm sure I have opinions about every player on this team that somebody would disagree with. Evans gets a lot of attention because he's a high profile player, but we can have a discussion about James Johnson or Aaron Brooks or whoever and someone is going to say we need to trade them and someone else is going to say we need to keep them and trade someone else. You don't have to marginalize people's opinions just because you disagree with them.
Last edited:
Oh, that means a lot. Half your rambles don't even make sense.
I basically responded that way as you brought up a strawman, not analysis, when saying sdballer doesn't know the first thing about basketball, which he does and has shown repeatedly. When people do provide analysis you're usually nowhere to be found anyhow. You simply wait to come in and bash Reke. Beautiful analysis on your part. Reke sucks. Reke can't play PG. Reke has no vision, Reke can't see the floor.And on and on.
Then, when someone disagrees, you call them morons and/or they don't know anything about basketball.
Uh huh....
What analysis have you ever offered besides Reke sucks and IT will be an All Star?
I basically responded that way as you brought up a strawman, not analysis, when saying sdballer doesn't know the first thing about basketball, which he does and has shown repeatedly. When people do provide analysis you're usually nowhere to be found anyhow. You simply wait to come in and bash Reke. Beautiful analysis on your part. Reke sucks. Reke can't play PG. Reke has no vision, Reke can't see the floor.And on and on.
Then, when someone disagrees, you call them morons and/or they don't know anything about basketball.
Uh huh....
What analysis have you ever offered besides Reke sucks and IT will be an All Star?
What's funny is that even though I don't agree with all of his opinions, I do think he knows basketball. It just gets tiresome when 95% of his posts are about how Evans sucks and is killing this team. I think Evans is having a rough season and I don't know that he is going to make it on this team. Not sure where he is getting this thing about all these posters riding Evans jock. Maybe a couple years ago but that's over. I think he gets more criticism than any other player on the team. Some of it is deserved, most isn't.
Again, he hasn't developed but I pose this to the Reke bashers out there: Name another player in the league that started with so much promise and then spent 3 years dealing with awful coaching, 3 positions, multiple mixed messages on play style, a lack of complimentary pieces and poor role definitions. I tried and honestly couldn't think of another player in that situation in the last decade, let alone in someone trying to play point guard.
And finally, the whole I was right and every one needs to acknowledge it is premature and pathetic. As far as I can tell you are a grown up. Do you really need that much validation from a sports forum?
Again, he hasn't developed but I pose this to the Reke bashers out there: Name another player in the league that started with so much promise and then spent 3 years dealing with awful coaching, 3 positions, multiple mixed messages on play style, a lack of complimentary pieces and poor role definitions. I tried and honestly couldn't think of another player in that situation in the last decade, let alone in someone trying to play point guard.
And finally, the whole I was right and every one needs to acknowledge it is premature and pathetic. As far as I can tell you are a grown up. Do you really need that much validation from a sports forum?
First off I have said I am not very good at explaining my points multiple times. Just so we are clear on that. 
I tend to ramble.
He leads the team in assists because he's the main ball handler (I don't like to call him a PG). Leading this team in assists is not a feat to brag about. And you cannot compare Rondo to Evans. Rondo is a PG and can actually pass the ball well, sees the floor well and gets others involved.
For the last three years we have had players "standing around" when Evans had the ball because he would hold it. He would dribble up the court and basically hold the ball, like Salmons does when he has the ball. If it would take players that run around to get Evans to pass the ball consistently then I would be all for it. But right now he's not doing that.
Last couple of points;
1. A hugger is someone who likes a player and overvalues him because they can't see past their love to find the flaws.
2. I have to be on the "defensive". I constantly get attacked because I do not like one specific player. It's not a huge deal because the people that do attack are "no nothing know it alls". It's a clique of about 10 or so longtime members who all agree on the same things and god forbid someone disagrees with them lol. This goes back three years when we drafted him and I said he was not a PG and had pretty much the whole board say he was and said that I have no clue how Evans plays even though a lot of them admitted that they had not seen him in college and I had.
I tend to ramble. He leads the team in assists because he's the main ball handler (I don't like to call him a PG). Leading this team in assists is not a feat to brag about. And you cannot compare Rondo to Evans. Rondo is a PG and can actually pass the ball well, sees the floor well and gets others involved.
For the last three years we have had players "standing around" when Evans had the ball because he would hold it. He would dribble up the court and basically hold the ball, like Salmons does when he has the ball. If it would take players that run around to get Evans to pass the ball consistently then I would be all for it. But right now he's not doing that.
Last couple of points;
1. A hugger is someone who likes a player and overvalues him because they can't see past their love to find the flaws.
2. I have to be on the "defensive". I constantly get attacked because I do not like one specific player. It's not a huge deal because the people that do attack are "no nothing know it alls". It's a clique of about 10 or so longtime members who all agree on the same things and god forbid someone disagrees with them lol. This goes back three years when we drafted him and I said he was not a PG and had pretty much the whole board say he was and said that I have no clue how Evans plays even though a lot of them admitted that they had not seen him in college and I had.
I kind of agree. Gary most likely isn't as clueless as he comes across. But he repeatedly will just bash Reke without ever offering any other analysis on our use of Reke, Smarts sub patterns and who Reke plays with, our unbalanced roster and lineup overall, our numerous deficiencies, poor history of player development, etc.. I'd respect his hatred towards Reke if he at least attempted to place it within the context of our dysfunct roster and organization as a whole.
But he's on a one man crusade. It's always about Reke and little else. He also resorts to name calling with those who don't agree or the "you don't know basketball" jab. Obviously, we all here have an at least decent understanding of the game.
But he's on a one man crusade. It's always about Reke and little else. He also resorts to name calling with those who don't agree or the "you don't know basketball" jab. Obviously, we all here have an at least decent understanding of the game.
I think Reke has good enough vision and is a willing enough passer to run the point. However, we never get to see him display his passing skills because his teammates just stand around most of the time on offense or are looking for their shot. There are way too many iso plays being run for the team as a whole. Run some backdoor screens or something.
It seems like Smart has given the green light to all his players to shoot the ball if you think the all will hit the rim. The amount of offensive ineptitude this team has shown astounds me. It seems like many of these guys have never been taught how to function in an offensive scheme where the ball isn't in their hands 100% of the time.
I see college teams running better offensive schemes than this team.
It seems like Smart has given the green light to all his players to shoot the ball if you think the all will hit the rim. The amount of offensive ineptitude this team has shown astounds me. It seems like many of these guys have never been taught how to function in an offensive scheme where the ball isn't in their hands 100% of the time.
I see college teams running better offensive schemes than this team.
Exactly. I find his analysis of Reke's performance surface level spot on but beyond that he resorts to "I told you so, I know better than everyone else, etc." and ignores any and all possible issues that may be contributing to that performance. And it's so targeted to Evans alone that it just gets old and minimizes what could be useful debate around a key player on the team.
It's a topic that's out there so I will definitely talk about it. This is a forum after all. I haven't started any of the Evans threads since he's been drafted but I have disagreed with many opinions people have had of Evans. And call my opinions what you will. And no, I don't need validation. I think it's funny though that the same people I have argued with on this subject are still coming up with idiotic scenarios on how he could be used.
That the whole "I am right" thing is brought out when people make retarded statements like the one you had made above. Or 100% of Rainmakers posts. Normally I am a really laid back nice guy.
The only time I argue with people on this board though is when they talk about Evans as the "next coming" of whoever he happens to be called on that given day. Oh and also when people talk about wanting to bring Thabeet or Tyrus Thomas to the Kings.
That the whole "I am right" thing is brought out when people make retarded statements like the one you had made above. Or 100% of Rainmakers posts. Normally I am a really laid back nice guy.
The only time I argue with people on this board though is when they talk about Evans as the "next coming" of whoever he happens to be called on that given day. Oh and also when people talk about wanting to bring Thabeet or Tyrus Thomas to the Kings.
Last edited:
There was an NBA scout watching us last week who said we ran the worst offensive sets in the league. It's clear to many of us but others notice it as well, others who know the game. We obviously have personnel issues, but we're certainly not this inept as a team. The problem is our lack of a system which doesn't play to our players strengths as well as the poor overall use of our players.
If you mean that the league has learned how to better control a guy when the entire offensive set up is to iso him and have every one else stand around than yes. But that goes for every player on this team and almost every player in the league. No one really excels in that set up so I do point to coaching at some point. Doesn't mean I don't think Evans could minimize that by improving his j but its crazy to act like coaching doesn't matter when its obvious that the team's offense is not set up to take advantage of his or anyone else's skills. The ones that look the most comfortable are the MT, Brooks and Jimmer's where they basically just pull up since that's what they do best and that's what our offense provides.
[sarcasm]Because I don't actually watch the games. I just pretend I do and then toss out statements based solely on the box score.[/sarcasm] And the "jab" was a retaliation jab. Glad it bothered you both enough to repeat it a few times. As for the name calling thing, I don't think I have ever called someone out that didn't try to call me out first. I am not an antagonist at all, but when I get an opinion that I think is correct I will fight for it. Evans is not a PG. Been saying it for three years. At least I have been consistent rather than the people that constantly flip flop according to how the others on the board feel. Sorry, but I am not a puppy who's going to follow around the guy with the most friends who worship his opinions even if he is wrong.
And the roster as a whole? I think I have said how I would like the players to be used numerous times. It's not my fault if you just assume I haven't.
EDIT: Oh yes, I am on a one man crusade and and all of my posts are about Evans. I may be wrong but hasn't the whole board been talking about Evans for the last three years or have I just been talking to myself in the Evans threads with multiple usernames?
And the roster as a whole? I think I have said how I would like the players to be used numerous times. It's not my fault if you just assume I haven't.
EDIT: Oh yes, I am on a one man crusade and and all of my posts are about Evans. I may be wrong but hasn't the whole board been talking about Evans for the last three years or have I just been talking to myself in the Evans threads with multiple usernames?
Not to get into the middle of a personal conversation, so I'll just make a slight observation.
I have started what some might call an "anti-reke" forum which is fine, we are all Kings fans, why would anyone take an opinion on Reke as personal to them? On other forums like lakersground or clutchcity, people come down on players who they feel are under-performing or undeserving of being on the team, many consider that part of being a fan.
I personally think Reke is the only Rookie of the Year in the last decade besides maybe Emeka Okafor who has decreased in production from year to year. On this board particularly people politic over this, and blame the coaches or position instead of just calling a spade a spade, and labeling his career a letdown to the organization so far
I don't have an issue with criticizing a players flaws and I've mentioned repeatedly where I am dissapointed in his lack of development. I simply don't understand where many fans hold him to a different standard than the rest of the team or fail to realize how the coaching/make-up of this team contributes to his challenges or could potentially be corrected.
The league's history is littered with guys that never got it as well as those that proved to be more than what they seemed once they got out of toxic situations. With his obvious skills and the mess this organization has been, I'm just more willing to consider it possibly the latter. Mostly because if it is correctable, this team is a hell of a lot closer to relevancy.
The league's history is littered with guys that never got it as well as those that proved to be more than what they seemed once they got out of toxic situations. With his obvious skills and the mess this organization has been, I'm just more willing to consider it possibly the latter. Mostly because if it is correctable, this team is a hell of a lot closer to relevancy.
OK I am going to bed.. You two have a wonderful night.
Homework assignment; Rather than just arguing with me over something none of us care about, I would love to hear how some of you would use Evans and I would really like to hear how Evans could succeed with what you have thought up. If I turn out to be wrong I would be the first to admit it.
Homework assignment; Rather than just arguing with me over something none of us care about, I would love to hear how some of you would use Evans and I would really like to hear how Evans could succeed with what you have thought up. If I turn out to be wrong I would be the first to admit it.
Have you seen the muck that's passing for an offense out there right now? I'm amazed he's managed to get that many assists. He's not even the primary ballhandler anymore. James Johnson of all people handled the ball as much as Tyreke did in the game today. Give Steve Nash the ball at the halfcourt line and have everyone else stand around and watch and he probably wouldn't get that many assists either. I don't think Tyreke is elite as a PG, but he has shown that he's a competent one when given the opportunity. The same could be said for Isaiah Thomas and Aaron Brooks and yet they're having similar struggles this season under this joke of an offense.
I've never understood, the entire time Tyreke has been in the league, why so many fans feel the need to classify him as a PG or not a PG. He played the point for two seasons and showed he was competent at it. Graded on a curve, his numbers look even better considering how many PGs struggle to adjust their first couple of seasons in the league. He's played off the ball for about a season and the results are a lot less encouraging. This mirrors what happened in his season at Memphis as well. Even if he doesn't fit the ideal basketball encyclopedia description of a PG, how much more evidence do you need that it's his best position? If the conclusion to be drawn from this is that his best isn't good enough, then let's just trade him now and get it over with.
I've never understood, the entire time Tyreke has been in the league, why so many fans feel the need to classify him as a PG or not a PG. He played the point for two seasons and showed he was competent at it. Graded on a curve, his numbers look even better considering how many PGs struggle to adjust their first couple of seasons in the league. He's played off the ball for about a season and the results are a lot less encouraging. This mirrors what happened in his season at Memphis as well. Even if he doesn't fit the ideal basketball encyclopedia description of a PG, how much more evidence do you need that it's his best position? If the conclusion to be drawn from this is that his best isn't good enough, then let's just trade him now and get it over with.
Sorry can't go to bed with that nugget out there.
Evans was a top 5 first round draft pick who got ROY in a VERY STRONG draft class. The reason I am holding him to such a high standard is because of him being the 5th pick in a strong class of course and because in his rookie year he had glimpses of greatness. I never thought he was a PG but I thought he was out best all around player and he has let me down in a major way. Call it 100% coaches fault, call it 100% teams fault or whatever. Personally I put about 75% on Evans himself, that's why I am critical of him. He was supposed to be our franchise player and he's gotten worse every year. I am not going to criticize in this post how I believe everyone else is wrong, I just wanted to give you the reason why I hold him to a high standard.
Cousins is the same. I am utterly pissed off that he does stupid stuff saying that "I got boys in every town so watch your back" or whatever he said to Elliot. But I cannot fault his play on the court that much other than my constant berating on how many stupid fouls he gets or how he needs to "shut up and play". Other than that I think he's falling in line with how the team as a whole has regressed in general.
As for guys like MT, Jimmer or IT I never had high hopes for them like I did for Evans or Cousins. I figured Jimmer was here to hit 3s off the bench, and MT was here to pretty much do the same. Any production from IT was a bonus but I can't really fault his assist numbers this year because he's not the PG. I do fault the coach for using a 5'9 PG as a SG though.
As for Robinson, I think he's coming along nicely.
Evans was a top 5 first round draft pick who got ROY in a VERY STRONG draft class. The reason I am holding him to such a high standard is because of him being the 5th pick in a strong class of course and because in his rookie year he had glimpses of greatness. I never thought he was a PG but I thought he was out best all around player and he has let me down in a major way. Call it 100% coaches fault, call it 100% teams fault or whatever. Personally I put about 75% on Evans himself, that's why I am critical of him. He was supposed to be our franchise player and he's gotten worse every year. I am not going to criticize in this post how I believe everyone else is wrong, I just wanted to give you the reason why I hold him to a high standard.
Cousins is the same. I am utterly pissed off that he does stupid stuff saying that "I got boys in every town so watch your back" or whatever he said to Elliot. But I cannot fault his play on the court that much other than my constant berating on how many stupid fouls he gets or how he needs to "shut up and play". Other than that I think he's falling in line with how the team as a whole has regressed in general.
As for guys like MT, Jimmer or IT I never had high hopes for them like I did for Evans or Cousins. I figured Jimmer was here to hit 3s off the bench, and MT was here to pretty much do the same. Any production from IT was a bonus but I can't really fault his assist numbers this year because he's not the PG. I do fault the coach for using a 5'9 PG as a SG though.
As for Robinson, I think he's coming along nicely.
Whatever Gary, I won't continue as to avoid further polluting the thread.
These tweets are interesting:
Jimmy Spencer @JimmypSpencer
It's unreal what Sacramento is doing to Tyreke Evans. He runs the play, and the ball never comes back to him. He is completely overlooked.
Jimmy Spencer @JimmypSpencer
More rant on Evans situation: Has he really regressed from where he was as a rookie? I don't think so. I think Sac is doing something wrong.
Jimmy Spencer @JimmypSpencer
I'd be curious to see what Tyreke Evans could become with veteran guard leadership and a coach who can forcefully direct Evans
Jimmy Spencer @JimmypSpencer
He's a 6-foot-6 guard who can barrel through the lane with ease. He's not perfect, but it's on coaching to figure out how to use that.
Jimmy Spencer @JimmypSpencer
@narichards9 I think we agree, Neil. He needs more touches and obviously is no longer fitting in with Sacramento.
Jimmy Spencer @JimmypSpencer
@mrarmchair You are talking about a fourth year player at 23 years old. Twenty-three!! The kid needs direction of a hard-nosed coach.
Jimmy Spencer @JimmypSpencer
@mrarmchair Tyreke needs a tough coach. It's his personality. Memphis. He responds well with clear direction. Doesn't have that in Sac.
Jimmy Spencer @JimmypSpencer
I covered Tyreke's rookie year and sophomore year for http://NBA.com . The team never made an effort to develop him or his role.
His brother retweeted some of these. Even said some things himself.
International i @Bluprintceo
What happened when he started getting hot the 1st game of the season? The coach iced him! And didn't put him back in til late 2nd qtr.
International i @Bluprintceo
Rip Hamilton came up to me and said that's crazy... Reke was killin us and his coach iced him. Smh. I guess he don't know either huh
International i @Bluprintceo
@Nelson4g63 I know. The whole team plays. I've never seen that before. If it works great but I've never seen it work.
Think what you will.
These tweets are interesting:
Jimmy Spencer @JimmypSpencer
It's unreal what Sacramento is doing to Tyreke Evans. He runs the play, and the ball never comes back to him. He is completely overlooked.
Jimmy Spencer @JimmypSpencer
More rant on Evans situation: Has he really regressed from where he was as a rookie? I don't think so. I think Sac is doing something wrong.
Jimmy Spencer @JimmypSpencer
I'd be curious to see what Tyreke Evans could become with veteran guard leadership and a coach who can forcefully direct Evans
Jimmy Spencer @JimmypSpencer
He's a 6-foot-6 guard who can barrel through the lane with ease. He's not perfect, but it's on coaching to figure out how to use that.
Jimmy Spencer @JimmypSpencer
@narichards9 I think we agree, Neil. He needs more touches and obviously is no longer fitting in with Sacramento.
Jimmy Spencer @JimmypSpencer
@mrarmchair You are talking about a fourth year player at 23 years old. Twenty-three!! The kid needs direction of a hard-nosed coach.
Jimmy Spencer @JimmypSpencer
@mrarmchair Tyreke needs a tough coach. It's his personality. Memphis. He responds well with clear direction. Doesn't have that in Sac.
Jimmy Spencer @JimmypSpencer
I covered Tyreke's rookie year and sophomore year for http://NBA.com . The team never made an effort to develop him or his role.
His brother retweeted some of these. Even said some things himself.
International i @Bluprintceo
What happened when he started getting hot the 1st game of the season? The coach iced him! And didn't put him back in til late 2nd qtr.
International i @Bluprintceo
Rip Hamilton came up to me and said that's crazy... Reke was killin us and his coach iced him. Smh. I guess he don't know either huh
International i @Bluprintceo
@Nelson4g63 I know. The whole team plays. I've never seen that before. If it works great but I've never seen it work.
Think what you will.
Last edited:
