Trading Up/ Trading Down... Pointless This Year

S

sactownfan

Guest
#1
#1
Look guys im actually starting to get annoyed hearing about not picking Holiday/Flynn/ Whoever! with the #4 pick.... but instead, trading down to pick them....
WHY!!! seriously who here thinks any team is gonna give up anything really worth wild to move up in this draft??? WE ALL KNOW this draft sucks so why doesn't anyone get it yet? If a team is trading up, its because they want to draft the player WE WANT!

Petrie will not trade down to draft "HIS" PG... when he makes up his mind on who he wants he just gonna pick him... thats it... at #4... thats who hes gonna take.... end of story....

as another example look at Jason Thompson... sure Petrie could have traded down... but he's not!!! he's gonna find a player he likes and he's gonna take him. right there at #4....

IMPORTANT FOR ALL OF YOU TO UNDERSTAND.... picks 4-10 are all the same... maybe even 2-10 are the same...

They all have BIG ????question marks????? ATTACHED TO THEM...

Also if anyone thinks Holiday, or Flynn are falling out of the top 10 picks... your completely off your rocker...

This has nothing to do with trading up to get Rubio... thats makes the most sense... but still very VERY unlikely....
 
barndoggie

barndoggie

G-League
#3
#3
sactownfan said:
Look guys im actually starting to get annoyed hearing about not picking Holiday/Flynn/ Whoever! with the #4 pick.... but instead, trading down to pick them....
WHY!!! seriously who here thinks any team is gonna give up anything really worth wild to move up in this draft??? WE ALL KNOW this draft sucks so why doesn't anyone get it yet? If a team is trading up, its because they want to draft the player WE WANT!

Petrie will not trade down to draft "HIS" PG... when he makes up his mind on who he wants he just gonna pick him... thats it... at #4... thats who hes gonna take.... end of story....

as another example look at Jason Thompson... sure Petrie could have traded down... but he's not!!! he's gonna find a player he likes and he's gonna take him. right there at #4....

IMPORTANT FOR ALL OF YOU TO UNDERSTAND.... picks 4-10 are all the same... maybe even 2-10 are the same...

They all have BIG ????question marks????? ATTACHED TO THEM...

Also if anyone thinks Holiday, or Flynn are falling out of the top 10 picks... your completely off your rocker...

This has nothing to do with trading up to get Rubio... thats makes the most sense... but still very VERY unlikely....
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i've been saying the same thing in other forums flynn, holiday would not be reach in this years draft
 
F

fnordius

All-Star
#4
#4
You may be misinterpreting the thoughts of some of us here.

I agree that trading down is unlikely, and I'm okay with that. I just don't want to see a tweener guard who I have no confidence in, in a Kings uniform. That applies to a few people in this draft, and Holiday is one of them. I don't want him at #4, or #23, or #31. If we could pick him up as undrafted roster filler, fine, but otherwise I'm not interested.

Flynn? Not a problem, at least I'm sure that he's a PG. Anybody currently ranked in the top 6, even if we don't need someone in their position? Also not a problem. Someone can be traded later, or we can just stink our way through another season and maybe pick up Wall next summer.

So that's where I stand, I'm somewhat flexible with regard to BPA philosophy and WRT drafting for need. But I see our needs as a pass-first PG who can defend at least a little, and a defensive big. If there are no reasonable choices available that fit one of those descriptions, then just take the BPA. But don't go half a dozen slots down the list to take someone who doesn't fit either of those.

I'd imagine that others have their own ideas, but those are mine.
 
N

Nighthawk1

Starter
#5
#5
Then there are those of us who don't view Holliday as a tweener guard just one forced to play out of his natural position due to Collison still being on the team.
 
H

hammystyle

Starter
#6
#6
I think the point is a good one. For every Curry, Holiday, Flynn or whever post there is a quick smattering of posts like "No! That's a reach....Maybe if we trade down"...well what if that's not there? Ideally you trade down and get the guy you still want and pick up something good while saving money. But the consensus 4/5 guys are Harden and Hill, and I can't imagine anyone is dying to give up much if anything at all to get them.
 
Aenadin

Aenadin

Starter
#7
#7
trading two spots up if it costs the 31st isnt pointless Imo.. especially when we have a few players we can trade to buy the wiz pick.. which you can break down to two first rounders with another team..

the 4th pick is key... and to truly rebuild we need to get active in the draft not be the stoic guy..
 
F

fnordius

All-Star
#8
#8
Nighthawk1 said:
Then there are those of us who don't view Holliday as a tweener guard just one forced to play out of his natural position due to Collison still being on the team.
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If so, then he'd probably be very well advised to go back to UCLA for another year. Sure, he was great in HS, but he's only had like one good game in his (brief) collegiate career. Maybe it's because he was playing out of position, but it's going to make a lot of people, me included, wonder if maybe he's just not very good against anyone but high schoolers.

I'd like our next PG to be someone who has at least started as a PG in some college or Euro games, so we could see what they've got. Don't you agree that that would be a good thing?
 
VF21

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#10
#10
sactownfan said:
Look guys im actually starting to get annoyed hearing about not picking Holiday/Flynn/ Whoever! with the #4 pick.... but instead, trading down to pick them....
WHY!!! seriously who here thinks any team is gonna give up anything really worth wild to move up in this draft??? WE ALL KNOW this draft sucks so why doesn't anyone get it yet? If a team is trading up, its because they want to draft the player WE WANT!

Petrie will not trade down to draft "HIS" PG... when he makes up his mind on who he wants he just gonna pick him... thats it... at #4... thats who hes gonna take.... end of story....

as another example look at Jason Thompson... sure Petrie could have traded down... but he's not!!! he's gonna find a player he likes and he's gonna take him. right there at #4....

IMPORTANT FOR ALL OF YOU TO UNDERSTAND.... picks 4-10 are all the same... maybe even 2-10 are the same...

They all have BIG ????question marks????? ATTACHED TO THEM...

Also if anyone thinks Holiday, or Flynn are falling out of the top 10 picks... your completely off your rocker...

This has nothing to do with trading up to get Rubio... thats makes the most sense... but still very VERY unlikely....
Click to expand...

IMPORTANT FOR YOU TO UNDERSTAND

It's about salary cost. Rookies are paid according to their draft position. You need to check the CBA ... http://www.kingsfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30220 ... #41.

That's why some people are talking about trading down. If you aren't going to select a top tier player, there's no reason to pay him as if he were one.
 
S

sactownfan

Guest
#11
#11
VF21 said:
IMPORTANT FOR YOU TO UNDERSTAND

It's about salary cost. Rookies are paid according to their draft position. You need to check the CBA ... http://www.kingsfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30220 ... #41.

That's why some people are talking about trading down. If you aren't going to select a top tier player, there's no reason to pay him as if he were one.
Click to expand...
Wow VF21 ??? really??? uncharacteristic post from you.... if i had to guess i'd figure you'd be wit me on this... Petrie wont risk trading down... He's in a safe position right now... Yes he'd obviously like to be set with Griffen at #1 or Rubio at #2... but this is Petrie were talking about... He loves drafting underrated talent higher than where most people would.

As much as money is an issue right now... Petries not gonna make draft moves to cut cost... Im sure theres a "Petrie guy" that he will zero in on and he will pick him with the #4th...

The one exception to the cost related draft moves is Nick Calathes.... I could see Petrie picking him and not having to pay him next year.
 
funkykingston

funkykingston

Super Moderator
Staff member
#12
#12
Can anyone name a time Petrie has traded up OR down in the first round of a draft?

Maybe I'm forgetting an instance, I don't know. Yes, he dealt a pick (Dan Dickau) to the Hawks for the right to a future 1st when there was no one on the board that he considered worth a first rounder, but in general the pattern is very straight forward:

Geoff stacks his draft board, waits for his turn to pick, takes his highest rated player and goes home.

The difference in salary between the the 4th pick and the 10th pick is a little more than $1 million annually. Saving that kind of salary is just not enough of a motivating factor to risk losing the player he wants. Not to mention, which player is a team going to fall in love with to the extent that they'll want to move up to four anyway? I think Harden will be a very solid pro, but I don't see stardom. After that? Honestly I can't fathom why so many mocks have Hill in the top 5. I think he's got bust written all over him. Athletic forwards with no feel for the game often do. But I digress.

I could see this being the draft where Geoff finally makes a bold move up (if he really falls in love with Rubio) but I just don't see him trading down. There's just no real reason to.
 
VF21

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#13
#13
I'm not saying Petrie will or won't do it. I'm simply stating that's why some GMs trade down. The player they want isn't worth the money they would have to pay.

I don't think he'll trade down for the simple reason I think there are value players to be taken at the #4. (So in that regard I do agree with you, sactownfan) But I have seen teams trade down in years past and I think that's what some of our posters have been thinking. Of course, I could be wrong. It's all pretty much a crapshoot at this point anyway.

:)
 
MassachusettsKingsFan

MassachusettsKingsFan

All-Star
#14
#14
Well, actually there are some places were trading up/down gets tricky. This goes along with something Ive been thinking about for a few days...

If we like Rubio, I think we may have to trade up for him... There have been tons of Rumors of teams trading into the Memphis/ OKC slots to grab Rubio because of the whole market situation. Picks 2 and 3 have value because Thabeet / Rubio are on another level. So while teams arent likely going to trade up / down from the 4 - 10 slot, the teams that trade into the slots above us change our game plan completely... I just dont see a situation were Rubio isnt drafted in the top 3 via a trade to a bigger market. ( keeping in mind we could trade into the top 3 )

Then, if by some chance rubio does drop to us at 4 but we still love another point guard, this is where trading down would be a possibility because Rubio does have value here .. you can get legit players for him.. the Knicks were talking about trading there pick and David Lee for Rubio... If Rubio falls to us and NY offers us there 9 and Lee, Im taking that in a heartbeat and drafting Curry at 9.
 
Gary

Gary

All-Star
#15
#15
sactownfan said:
Wow VF21 ??? really??? uncharacteristic post from you.... if i had to guess i'd figure you'd be wit me on this... Petrie wont risk trading down... He's in a safe position right now... Yes he'd obviously like to be set with Griffen at #1 or Rubio at #2... but this is Petrie were talking about... He loves drafting underrated talent higher than where most people would.

As much as money is an issue right now... Petries not gonna make draft moves to cut cost... Im sure theres a "Petrie guy" that he will zero in on and he will pick him with the #4th...

The one exception to the cost related draft moves is Nick Calathes.... I could see Petrie picking him and not having to pay him next year.
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What VF said.. If the Kings are giving up on guys just to save a few hundred grand don't you think trading down to get the same player at 500k+ per year is logical?
 
Dime Dropper

Dime Dropper

All-Star
#16
#16
Holiday is not worth the fourth overall. I will be seriously mad if we take him at 4 over guys like Flynn, Harden etc..

If he's there at 23, fine, take a risk (he most definitely is a risk).

Trading down is risky at this point. After the first pick overall, no one really knows where anyone is going to go. We could trade down a few spots and our guy gets taken. I would like to aquire another pick in the mid-first round, though.
 
Aenadin

Aenadin

Starter
#17
#17
nows not the time to be cheap when it comes to trading.. your inches away from what could be a leader of the team.. how many times have we complained that the team has no leader? right?

im not for trading down cause it lowers your chances of getting that star and that so called leader.. with the 4th only a few sacrifices here and there.. give up a pick... possibly a future pick to trade up...

regardless its easier to trade UP when your in the top 5....
 
Kingster

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#18
#18
VF21 said:
IMPORTANT FOR YOU TO UNDERSTAND

It's about salary cost. Rookies are paid according to their draft position. You need to check the CBA ... http://www.kingsfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30220 ... #41.

That's why some people are talking about trading down. If you aren't going to select a top tier player, there's no reason to pay him as if he were one.
Click to expand...
The question is, why would any GM in his right mind want to trade up for pick #4? Unless you have someone go off the deep end, it's not going to happen.
 
Kingster

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#19
#19
funkykingston said:
Can anyone name a time Petrie has traded up OR down in the first round of a draft?

Maybe I'm forgetting an instance, I don't know. Yes, he dealt a pick (Dan Dickau) to the Hawks for the right to a future 1st when there was no one on the board that he considered worth a first rounder, but in general the pattern is very straight forward:

Geoff stacks his draft board, waits for his turn to pick, takes his highest rated player and goes home.

The difference in salary between the the 4th pick and the 10th pick is a little more than $1 million annually. Saving that kind of salary is just not enough of a motivating factor to risk losing the player he wants. Not to mention, which player is a team going to fall in love with to the extent that they'll want to move up to four anyway? I think Harden will be a very solid pro, but I don't see stardom. After that? Honestly I can't fathom why so many mocks have Hill in the top 5. I think he's got bust written all over him. Athletic forwards with no feel for the game often do. But I digress.

I could see this being the draft where Geoff finally makes a bold move up (if he really falls in love with Rubio) but I just don't see him trading down. There's just no real reason to.
Click to expand...
Yes, that is the Petrie MO - wait your turn, and take you pick. He never trades in the draft - up, or down. There's no rule stopping him of course, but if past is prologue, then any talk about trading picks is all based on hope.
 
kingsnation

kingsnation

All-Star
#20
#20
Kingster said:
The question is, why would any GM in his right mind want to trade up for pick #4? Unless you have someone go off the deep end, it's not going to happen.
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Actually, some do consider Harden to be "above" the class of PGs and a team in need of a good SG might just try to trade up to 4. Why does everyone think this would be so odd?

If a team does like Harden, maybe even the Wizards - a trade could take place.
 
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