Trade Suggestion: Fox for Simmons + #28

[dude12]

I personally think Simmons is a better player than Fox due to his defense and near triple double averaging. I also agree that teams have to scheme for Fox more than Simmons and you also have to build a specific team around Simmons in order to succeed.

Here is my only worry about a Fox and Hali backcourt. They could potentially just be a very poor man's Lillard and McCollum and Lillard and McCollum are a bit of a poor man's western conference playoff team.

Fox scores a bit like Lillard without the killer shot. Hali looks like he's going to be able to do a bit of everything like McCollum. So far both Fox and Hali have been really bad defensively. Hali has a shot to improve and you'd think Fox would have improved at least somewhat by now but he really hasn't. They could potentially just be a lesser version of the Blazers from this point forward.

I think it's worth thinking about at least.

I would take anything close to what Portland has done tbh……but if Sac added in the 3 and D types who can play those roles and then juggle the lineup to where you have a balance of D and offense, I think it could/would be an easier route to success than building a team around Simmons. I mean, Simmons has the best big man in the game with him…..or one of the top bigs in Embiid.

 

[SacTownKid]

I personally think Simmons is a better player than Fox due to his defense and near triple double averaging. I also agree that teams have to scheme for Fox more than Simmons and you also have to build a specific team around Simmons in order to succeed.

Here is my only worry about a Fox and Hali backcourt. They could potentially just be a very poor man's Lillard and McCollum and Lillard and McCollum are a bit of a poor man's western conference playoff team.

Fox scores a bit like Lillard without the killer shot. Hali looks like he's going to be able to do a bit of everything like McCollum. So far both Fox and Hali have been really bad defensively. Hali has a shot to improve and you'd think Fox would have improved at least somewhat by now but he really hasn't. They could potentially just be a lesser version of the Blazers from this point forward.

I think it's worth thinking about at least.

Different types but it goes back to the argument about score/shoot first non traditional PG's that aren't loaded with defensive potential historically and Fox is for sure loaded from a physical standpoint. Young right now is getting it done as some others have done in the past but we'll see where it takes him. The biggest issue the Blazers face is that today you kind of need 3 difference makers if you don't have a physical marvel to rely on as your first option. Personally, I think Fox could be in that category at his position. We shall see.

And the Blazers are exactly why the Kings need to be very concerned about their cap and spending on players that should be viewed at as peripheral pieces (Holmes, Davis, maybe Bagley). Once it solidifies it's borderline impossible to get that 3rd guy back as the Sixers are seeing now post Butler. The Blazers decided to keep what they had together and they made it pretty far once upon a time with a big 3 of their own. They had LA but his wheels fell off pretty quickly and there were issues apparently. He was the established "hanger on" already there prior to when Dame/CJ came aboard so him being a championship level fit was unlikely although they made wise choices to draft with some sort of sense in terms of fit.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I think Fox and Hali could be a more well rounded Lillard and McCollum and even though I think the Blazers have reached their ceiling, that ceiling was a WCF appearance which also matches the most glorious single year in Sacramento Kings history. I'd take it.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

And the Blazers are exactly why the Kings need to be very concerned about their cap and spending on players that should be viewed at as peripheral pieces (Holmes, Davis, maybe Bagley). Once it solidifies it's borderline impossible to get that 3rd guy back as the Sixers are seeing now post Butler. The Blazers decided to keep what they had together and they made it pretty far once upon a time with a big 3 of their own. They had LA but his wheels fell off pretty quickly and there were issues apparently. He was the established "hanger on" already there prior to when Dame/CJ came aboard so him being a championship level fit was unlikely although they made wise choices to draft with some sort of sense in terms of fit.

The Blazers had a horrid 2016, Aldridge left and they threw big money at Evan Turner and then matched Allen Crabbe.

While we rightfully are upset with Vlade with squandering the 15 and 20 picks in 2017, the Blazers traded those up for Zach Collins who gets hurt a lot, but I guess at least he's still on the team. They could have drafted a piece that put them over, or two VERY good pieces where Vlade went for homeruns.

Olshey is not a very good GM in my estimation and he's made some reactive moves that cost them in the talent equation to fill short term gaps.

 

[Sluggah]

I was a huge fan of Simmons his first couple years…but now I find myself wondering…has he improved any aspect of his game since coming into the league? I’m not sure he has (definitely not by any significant margin) and that’s a bit of a red flag for me. I’ll still hold out hope…but not with that contract and not for Fox.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I was a huge fan of Simmons his first couple years…but now I find myself wondering…has he improved any aspect of his game since coming into the league? I’m not sure he has (definitely not by any significant margin) and that’s a bit of a red flag for me. I’ll still hold out hope…but not with that contract and not for Fox.

My biggest question is he unwilling to adjust his game or play outside his preferred role to fit into the team or is he being jerked around by a franchise that has been tweaking everything under the sun to justify the process. From the time they traded up for Fultz as the piece de resistance on the thing to now (4 seasons) how much roster turnover outside of Simmons and Embiid has there been. Is it right that Korkmaz is the only other player that was there to close the 2017-18 season through today?!?

 

[kingsboi]

I'm having a hard time grasping why posters on here would consider trading Fox for Simmons. Is it one of those grass is greener on the other side things? perhaps it's to fill in the time since playoff basketball isn't doing justice? Either way, it's time to stick with a core and build around it instead of trying to replace it with something we think is better

 

[ockingsfan]

Fox for Simmons + 28. Fox is the penetrating PG that the 76ers need.

With Fox gone, Hali takes over the starting PG spot. Simmons slides in as the 4/3 for the Kings. The Kings take BPA at #9 (Jalen Johnson? Scottie Barnes? Davion Mitchell?) and grab Ayo Donsumu, Tre Mann, Herb Jones, or Jared Butler at #28 and #39. Kings make the playoffs next year.

No way I trade Fox for Simmons. I would do Buddy and Barnes for Simmons plus filler.

I would then switch Simmons over to small forward and he would be the front courts defensive glue. Simmons would give the Kings a defensive specialist to make up for Bagley's lack of defense at the power forward position. The Kings hopefully re-sign Holmes at center. We would have smart, playmaking players at PG, SG, and SF. I would hide Simmons lack of 3 point shooting in the front court, since Bagley is a decent 3 point shooter at PF.

I think Philly would be title contenders with Barnes and Buddy, giving them floor spacing (Buddy and Barnes) and a championship pedigree (Barnes) player. They fill in the holes in Philly's starting line up, and Maxey slides into the starting point guard.

Kings Starting Line Up
PF Bagley
SF Simmons
C Holmes
SG Haliburton
PG Fox

76ers Starting Line up
PF Barnes
SF Harris
C Embiid
SG Buddy
PG Maxey

 

[kb02]

No way I trade Fox for Simmons. I would do Buddy and Barnes for Simmons plus filler.

I would then switch Simmons over to small forward and he would be the front courts defensive glue. Simmons would give the Kings a defensive specialist to make up for Bagley's lack of defense at the power forward position. The Kings hopefully re-sign Holmes at center. We would have smart, playmaking players at PG, SG, and SF. I would hide Simmons lack of 3 point shooting in the front court, since Bagley is a decent 3 point shooter at PF.

I think Philly would be title contenders with Barnes and Buddy, giving them floor spacing (Buddy and Barnes) and a championship pedigree (Barnes) player. They fill in the holes in Philly's starting line up, and Maxey slides into the starting point guard.

Kings Starting Line Up
PF Bagley
SF Simmons
C Holmes
SG Haliburton
PG Fox

76ers Starting Line up
PF Barnes
SF Harris
C Embiid
SG Buddy
PG Maxey

Would drive both Buddy and Barnes to the airport. Doubt Philly trades Simmons for either.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I would do Buddy and Barnes for Simmons plus filler.

Any combo of Buddy, Barnes and this year's pick (assuming it isn't top 4) works for me. If they want Bagley I ask for Thybulle back in the deal too.

 

[kb02]

I'm having a hard time grasping why posters on here would consider trading Fox for Simmons. Is it one of those grass is greener on the other side things? perhaps it's to fill in the time since playoff basketball isn't doing justice? Either way, it's time to stick with a core and build around it instead of trying to replace it with something we think is better

Did you read the rationale? Betting on the ceiling of Simmons, who is a triple double machine.
And I like Fox, just not sold on him as a long term #1 for a franchise.

 

[kb02]

Any combo of Buddy, Barnes and this year's pick (assuming it isn't top 4) works for me. If they want Bagley I ask for Thybulle back in the deal too.

I’ll drive Bagley as well, but what we’re willing to trade, I doubt will be sufficient. Quantity does not equal quality.

 

[The_Jamal]

Simmons is vastly underrated by a lot of fans on here and on twitter especially, but I don't think I'm trading Fox/Hali for him. The whole point would to be a "buy-low" on a 3rd star that in theory could make up a for a lot of their play on the defensive end and fit the age curve perfectly. I think the way you "fix" Simmons is to put him in a more secondary/tertiary playmaking role and have him act more as a high post/screener with tremendous playmaking ability. Essentially, he's your "dunker" spot on offense in a similar vein to Draymond.

I have no idea what his trade market is actually going to be or if they backed themselves into a corner by essentially throwing him under the bus and are now forced to trade him. Grabbing Barnes/Buddy as quality depth and good fit pieces next to Embiid makes a lot of sense from a team construction stand-point. I'd happily do Pick 9/Buddy/Barnes for Simmons.

 

[kingsboi]

Did you read the rationale? Betting on the ceiling of Simmons, who is a triple double machine.
And I like Fox, just not sold on him as a long term #1 for a franchise.

triple doubles haven't done much for Simmons and the Sixers. If you would rather hedge your future on Simmons being a number one over Fox then I can't really convince you otherwise

 

[kb02]

Simmons is vastly underrated by a lot of fans on here and on twitter especially, but I don't think I'm trading Fox/Hali for him. The whole point would to be a "buy-low" on a 3rd star that in theory could make up a for a lot of their play on the defensive end and fit the age curve perfectly. I think the way you "fix" Simmons is to put him in a more secondary/tertiary playmaking role and have him act more as a high post/screener with tremendous playmaking ability. Essentially, he's your "dunker" spot on offense in a similar vein to Draymond.

I have no idea what his trade market is actually going to be or if they backed themselves into a corner by essentially throwing him under the bus and are now forced to trade him. Grabbing Barnes/Buddy as quality depth and good fit pieces next to Embiid makes a lot of sense from a team construction stand-point. I'd happily do Pick 9/Buddy/Barnes for Simmons.

If Davion Mitchell or Suggs = the 2021 pick, it’s doable. If not, I have a hard time seeing it as viable for Philly. They need a disruptive, penetrating PG.

 

[kb02]

triple doubles haven't done much for Simmons and the Sixers. If you would rather hedge your future on Simmons being a number one over Fox then I can't really convince you otherwise

Likewise.

I’m hedging my future on a 6’10, ball handling unicorn, who would’ve required Fox, Hali, and a FRP last year. Buying low on that unicorn.

 

[kingsboi]

Likewise.

I’m hedging my future on a 6’10, ball handling unicorn, who would’ve required Fox, Hali, and a FRP last year. Buying low on that unicorn.

Your future looks very bleak in this instance. Carry on

 

[sactowndog]

I'm betting on the guy, who will make the right play than force it. Hali needs muscle, but I think next year, he's the better crunch time option whether Fox is here or not.

Crunch time option for what? I’m not a huge blind love for Fox guy but he is a pretty adept crunch time scorer. I would not be inclined to lose him for Simmons. Now if Philly wanted to make a Hield and Wright for Simmons trade count me in.

 

[ockingsfan]

Any combo of Buddy, Barnes and this year's pick (assuming it isn't top 4) works for me. If they want Bagley I ask for Thybulle back in the deal too.

Monte McNair was Darryl Morey's right hand man in Houston. I could see both wanting to make a fair deal that benefits both teams. Thing about Morey was that he was not afraid to make a big trades. He is constantly in score more and win now mode, so he would want instant offense in any trade for Simmons.

I would throw in this years pick (barring a leap into top 4) and possibly a top 5 protected future 1st round pick to get a deal done, if Philly included someone like Thybulle.

 

[kb02]

Crunch time option for what? I’m not a huge blind love for Fox guy but he is a pretty adept crunch time scorer. I would not be inclined to lose him for Simmons. Now if Philly wanted to make a Hield and Wright for Simmons trade count me in.

Hali. Once he puts on more muscle, I’d rather he handle the crunch time PG duties than Fox.

 

[kb02]

Monte McNair was Darryl Morey's right hand man in Houston. I could see both wanting to make a fair deal that benefits both teams. Thing about Morey was that he was not afraid to make a big trades. He is constantly in score more and win now mode, so he would want instant offense in any trade for Simmons.

I would throw in this years pick (barring a leap into top 4) and possibly a top 5 protected future 1st round pick to get a deal done, if Philly included someone like Thybulle.

Morey’s game plan has always been to acquire stars and then surround them with role players. So unless he’s blown away, he’s not trading Simmons unless he gets a chance to get a player with an equal or higher ceiling.

I just don’t see Buddy or Barnes as appealing pieces. Buddy has a second round rating (at best) around the league and Barnes nets maybe a mid first. That draft pick would need to net a top two pg for Morey to consider it.

 

[est.1999]

Simmons is scared to play basketball. Wouldn’t touch him

 

[SacTownKid]

Any combo of Buddy, Barnes and this year's pick (assuming it isn't top 4) works for me. If they want Bagley I ask for Thybulle back in the deal too.

They better include something back on the perimeter. I think Buddy/Barnes/9 is too much. Way too much. I would want to add Simmons to Barnes on the roster not take two steps back to take who knows how many steps forward. The main interest in Simmons should be creating a legit sized combo F duo with he and Barnes. Not putting Simmons at SF, Bagley at PF, and a big next to them. That's going nowhere when it counts. Not switchable, not enough shooting.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

They better include something back on the perimeter. I think Buddy/Barnes/9 is too much. Way too much. I would want to add Simmons to Barnes on the roster not take two steps back to take who knows how many steps forward. The main interest in Simmons should be creating a legit sized combo F duo with he and Barnes. Not putting Simmons at SF, Bagley at PF, and a big next to them. That's going nowhere when it counts. Not switchable, not enough shooting.

I guess when I said any combo I meant pick 2 - but we'd get something back if it was those 3 since there would need to be more salary back our way since it would be about ~42m/per going Philly's way?

 

[Turgenev]

I think Philly would win a Fox for Simmons swap. They would get the cheaper player who gets to - and finishes at - the rim easily and is comfortably the better shooter. Simmons is a much better defender - but Fox will improve with coaching, playoff experience, and expectation. Plus they have Thybulle as a strong, versatile defender. We would improve our defense, so should consider it from that angle, but Simmons insistence on playing PG, combined with his inability/unwillingness to shoot, and his contract present some pretty significant team building challenges. No thanks for me

 

[Tetsujin]

They better include something back on the perimeter. I think Buddy/Barnes/9 is too much. Way too much. I would want to add Simmons to Barnes on the roster not take two steps back to take who knows how many steps forward. The main interest in Simmons should be creating a legit sized combo F duo with he and Barnes. Not putting Simmons at SF, Bagley at PF, and a big next to them. That's going nowhere when it counts. Not switchable, not enough shooting.

This. You acquire Simmons with the intention of giving yourself a whole modern defense with an offense good enough to cover for him being afraid to shoot. Losing Barnes as part of getting him only negates that unless you’re that confident that Woodard is going to be good enough to play major minutes next year.

 

[SacTownKid]

I think Philly would win a Fox for Simmons swap. They would get the cheaper player who gets to - and finishes at - the rim easily and is comfortably the better shooter. Simmons is a much better defender - but Fox will improve with coaching, playoff experience, and expectation. Plus they have Thybulle as a strong, versatile defender. We would improve our defense, so should consider it from that angle, but Simmons insistence on playing PG, combined with his inability/unwillingness to shoot, and his contract present some pretty significant team building challenges. No thanks for me

And in terms of talent for talent the Sixers are in the same ball park as where they were before with two stars to build around since they still have Embiid. Not to mention Harris. The only guaranteed star anything for the Kings right now is Fox so the Kings would essentially just be making a treadmill move star for star even if Simmons proved to be slightly better, which I don't think would happen anyway.

 

[ockingsfan]

Morey’s game plan has always been to acquire stars and then surround them with role players. So unless he’s blown away, he’s not trading Simmons unless he gets a chance to get a player with an equal or higher ceiling.

I just don’t see Buddy or Barnes as appealing pieces. Buddy has a second round rating (at best) around the league and Barnes nets maybe a mid first. That draft pick would need to net a top two pg for Morey to consider it.

Well, Philly have their 2 "stars" in Embiid and Tobias Harris. They are paying Simmons as the third star, but he is playing like a very, very overpaid role player.

Morey has never been one to sit on a player hoping that he changes his stripes. I'm sure he sees the writing on the wall. I think he trades Simmons this off season, instead of wait to see his value drop even further, once next season starts.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

This. You acquire Simmons with the intention of giving yourself a whole modern defense with an offense good enough to cover for him being afraid to shoot. Losing Barnes as part of getting him only negates that unless you’re that confident that Woodard is going to be good enough to play major minutes next year.

My preference is absolutely Barnes and Simmons at the 3/4. It may take some selling Simmons on this but he's getting paid for 4 years and is the butt of every joke in the league right now so what would he have to lose? Kings go to the playoffs and he takes every ounce of credit.

Being dealt to Sacramento has been the wakeup call/shot in the arm many players needed from Webb to Barnes.

 

[Joshoua]

I don't see how you can build a team around Simmons unless you pair him with a big time perimeter scorer. All the Sixers really need right now is a high usage guard who can create instant offense so they don't have to run everything inside out. They probably should try to trade Tobias Harris for that player and put a 3 and D type in that second forward spot to balance the floor better.

If we were going to try and buy low on Simmons, a lineup with Fox and Simmons would make more sense to me than pairing Haliburton and Simmons because I think Fox is going to eventually become a reliable outside shooter but I don't know if Haliburton even wants to be an iso-guy. I don't really want to trade either of our young guards though. Especially when we don't even know where we're picking in the draft this year. If we're in position to draft a top PG like Jalen Suggs or even Davion Mitchell I'd think about making the Fox deal and going defense-first but even then I'd have a major issue with trading Fox. He's been unwavering in his commitment to Sacramento so trading him is really sending a bad message to Haliburton and anyone else thinking about potentially signing here. It's hard to ask your players for loyalty if it's clear the sentiment won't be returned.

Fox and Simmons would have to be paired with Turner and and elite shooting two guard. Fox, Barnes, Simmons, and Turner would work with the shooting from Barnes/Turner but the SG in that light need to be a lights out 3D guy. Problem is how do we get Turner after trading for Simmons