Trade Suggestion: Fox for Simmons + #28

kb02

kb02

All-Star
#61
#61
ockingsfan said:
Well, Philly have their 2 "stars" in Embiid and Tobias Harris. They are paying Simmons as the third star, but he is playing like a very, very overpaid role player.

Morey has never been one to sit on a player hoping that he changes his stripes. I'm sure he sees the writing on the wall. I think he trades Simmons this off season, instead of wait to see his value drop even further, once next season starts.
Click to expand...
Umm, no.
 
J

Joshoua

All-Star
#62
#62
pdxKingsFan said:
I think Fox and Hali could be a more well rounded Lillard and McCollum and even though I think the Blazers have reached their ceiling, that ceiling was a WCF appearance which also matches the most glorious single year in Sacramento Kings history. I'd take it.
Click to expand...
I don’t think Fox can reach the level of lillard especially with teams having to defend him 30 feet away from the rim
 
J

Joshoua

All-Star
#64
#64
ockingsfan said:
No way I trade Fox for Simmons. I would do Buddy and Barnes for Simmons plus filler.

I would then switch Simmons over to small forward and he would be the front courts defensive glue. Simmons would give the Kings a defensive specialist to make up for Bagley's lack of defense at the power forward position. The Kings hopefully re-sign Holmes at center. We would have smart, playmaking players at PG, SG, and SF. I would hide Simmons lack of 3 point shooting in the front court, since Bagley is a decent 3 point shooter at PF.

I think Philly would be title contenders with Barnes and Buddy, giving them floor spacing (Buddy and Barnes) and a championship pedigree (Barnes) player. They fill in the holes in Philly's starting line up, and Maxey slides into the starting point guard.

Kings Starting Line Up
PF Bagley
SF Simmons
C Holmes
SG Haliburton
PG Fox

76ers Starting Line up
PF Barnes
SF Harris
C Embiid
SG Buddy
PG Maxey
Click to expand...
Fox, Ben, Bagley lol teams wouldn’t even have to try on defense to stop us that spacing would stop itself
 
J

Joshoua

All-Star
#65
#65
kb02 said:
Morey’s game plan has always been to acquire stars and then surround them with role players. So unless he’s blown away, he’s not trading Simmons unless he gets a chance to get a player with an equal or higher ceiling.

I just don’t see Buddy or Barnes as appealing pieces. Buddy has a second round rating (at best) around the league and Barnes nets maybe a mid first. That draft pick would need to net a top two pg for Morey to consider it.
Click to expand...
I think he takes that deal he’s getting two shooters and getting deeper for a guy whose scared to shoot. Yes they lose an all nba defender but they can just play Thybull more whose an all nba defender as well. Philadelphia has more problems than just Ben they weren’t deep the bench isn’t good and the shooting isn’t there this trade helps both. With this trade they can have a bench of Melton, Seth, Buddy, and Thybull all of a sudden they have scorers in that unit
 
pdxKingsFan

pdxKingsFan

So Ordinary That It's Truly Quite Extraordinary
Staff member
#70
#70
sactowndog said:
well more importantly neither Lillard nor CJ are guards who set up other people. Haliburton has the IQ and mentality of a great lead guard.
Click to expand...
yeah, I'm not knocking McCollum I just think Haliburton is the total package. His admittedly ugly shot falls, his assist to turnover was off the charts for a rookie (maybe it leveled off?), and he plays defense.
 
SacTownKid

SacTownKid

Hall of Famer
#74
#74
Joshoua said:
The gap between lillard and fox would be too big and Haliburton would have to hit cause CJ is still a very good player
Click to expand...
I'm not sure how big that gap is now. They are just different. And Fox is 23, Dame is 30 in the midst of his prime. Fox hasn't even scraped it yet and this was the first year his team actually played as if he was their best player which was fairly long overdue even at only 23 years of age.
 
SacTownKid

SacTownKid

Hall of Famer
#76
#76
ockingsfan said:
That would be a possibility too, but the Kings would probably need to throw in a couple of 1st round picks with that offer.
Click to expand...
I would think the 9th pick whatever it will be should do. If the Kings somewhat miraculously jumped again then that pick is probably off limits or would need to be dealt for extra value elsewhere some of which could be added to that other package.
 
beb0p

beb0p

Starter
#77
#77
First of all - you're not buying low on Simmons - the Sixers are not selling low. I know his reputation is at an all time low, but the Sixers are not selling at that price. They know they have to trade him, but if I'm the Sixers I'm looking at a disgruntled star (Zion? Beal?) not a couple of role players plus a mid lottery pick. If I don't see a trade that net a star player back, I'd rather hold on to Simmons.

Second, he is an odd fit on the Kings. They are spacing the floor with shooters to open up the lanes for Fox. The one big man who can't shoot would set the screen up top for Fox. How does Simmons fit in this scheme? He's the worst floor spacer and he's not a particularly good screener. I know, I know. You put stars together and let them figure it out. But the problem is, I don't think Simmons is a star. I think he's the type of player who always need to be put in situations that works with his limitation. I don't see him working well with Fox - both guys who need the ball in their hands.

Third, he is paid like a superstar. I just can't fathom paying him that! If I'm going to pay a salary equal to Klay Thompson's, I expect Klay Thompson production. His contract can come back to bite you.

Fourth, he is who he is. I don't see him improving on his shot. Ok, maybe a little bit. But I don't see him ever becoming someone who can knock down an open jump shot consistently. You're constantly having to figure out how to hide him. People get on Doc Rivers, but I thought his hands were tied - how is a coach supposed to coach around a player who can't shoot, wouldn't shoot, and can be left wide open with no consequence? That's a problem I don't want the Kings to have.

If the Sixers just want to get rid of him; that's one thing. But I don't think that's what's happening here. Would I trade Barnes/Hield for Simmons? Sure. But again, highly doubt it will happen.
.
 
kb02

kb02

All-Star
#79
#79
beb0p said:
First of all - you're not buying low on Simmons - the Sixers are not selling low. I know his reputation is at an all time low, but the Sixers are not selling at that price. They know they have to trade him, but if I'm the Sixers I'm looking at a disgruntled star (Zion? Beal?) not a couple of role players plus a mid lottery pick. If I don't see a trade that net a star player back, I'd rather hold on to Simmons.

Second, he is an odd fit on the Kings. They are spacing the floor with shooters to open up the lanes for Fox. The one big man who can't shoot would set the screen up top for Fox. How does Simmons fit in this scheme? He's the worst floor spacer and he's not a particularly good screener. I know, I know. You put stars together and let them figure it out. But the problem is, I don't think Simmons is a star. I think he's the type of player who always need to be put in situations that works with his limitation. I don't see him working well with Fox - both guys who need the ball in their hands.

Third, he is paid like a superstar. I just can't fathom paying him that! If I'm going to pay a salary equal to Klay Thompson's, I expect Klay Thompson production. His contract can come back to bite you.

Fourth, he is who he is. I don't see him improving on his shot. Ok, maybe a little bit. But I don't see him ever becoming someone who can knock down an open jump shot consistently. You're constantly having to figure out how to hide him. People get on Doc Rivers, but I thought his hands were tied - how is a coach supposed to coach around a player who can't shoot, wouldn't shoot, and can be left wide open with no consequence? That's a problem I don't want the Kings to have.

If the Sixers just want to get rid of him; that's one thing. But I don't think that's what's happening here. Would I trade Barnes/Hield for Simmons? Sure. But again, highly doubt it will happen.
.
Click to expand...
Yea, Philly ain’t trading Simmons for spare parts. Dude is a three time all star, plays elite defense, and is 24 yrs old. Yes, he has his warts. Yes, there is recency bias. Yes, his value is lower than normal due to small sample size on the biggest stage. Yes, Simmons and Fox is a weird fit.

For the above reasons, I see a Fox for Simmons trade as the most logical trade. As core pieces, of course. And, per my OP, I think Fox has more value than Simmons, hence why Philly is adding a pick. And given their history, can see McNair and Morey turning it into a much larger deal where Buddy or Barnes or Bagley gets thrown in and the Kings get Thybullle or Maxey or picks in return.
 
kb02

kb02

All-Star
#80
#80
SacTownKid said:
I'm not sure how big that gap is now. They are just different. And Fox is 23, Dame is 30 in the midst of his prime. Fox hasn't even scraped it yet and this was the first year his team actually played as if he was their best player which was fairly long overdue even at only 23 years of age.
Click to expand...
Don’t think Fox should try to close that gap. He can improve his shooting a bit, but his biggest remaining leap on offense is controlling tempo, facilitating, and playing more like Chris Paul. So on offense, if there is a gap to close, it’s playing more like Paul.

On defense, where Fox has several leaps remaining, he needs to watch Gary Payton film.
 
beb0p

beb0p

Starter
#81
#81
kb02 said:
Yea, Philly ain’t trading Simmons for spare parts. Dude is a three time all star, plays elite defense, and is 24 yrs old. Yes, he has his warts. Yes, there is recency bias. Yes, his value is lower than normal due to small sample size on the biggest stage. Yes, Simmons and Fox is a weird fit.

For the above reasons, I see a Fox for Simmons trade as the most logical trade. As core pieces, of course. And, per my OP, I think Fox has more value than Simmons, hence why Philly is adding a pick. And given their history, can see McNair and Morey turning it into a much larger deal where Buddy or Barnes or Bagley gets thrown in and the Kings get Thybullle or Maxey or picks in return.
Click to expand...
If the Kings trade Fox for Simmons plus a pick, that's overpaying, imo. I'd rather have Fox than Simmons, and the #28 pick is meh to me.

If I'm trading Fox, I'd settle for nothing less than a Zion or the #1 pick in this draft. I see this trade as selling low on Fox.

.
 
steelevt

steelevt

All-Star
#82
#82
https://www.foxsports.com/stories/n...ason-struggles-philadelphia-76ers-joel-embiid

Reading this article made me pause a bit about trading for ben. I just thought all he has to do is work on his shot and confidence, but the more I read about what happened in the past (being babied, family and agent involved, not working with the team and ignoring what the team wanted him to work on in the offseason), it’s not just in the court issues with him. It’s not like the Webber argument of trading for someone with off court issues vs someone with on court issues. This article makes me thing ben has both issues.
 
Last edited:
kb02

kb02

All-Star
#85
#85
ockingsfan said:
Darryl Morey is the President of Basketball operations, Elton Bramd is still the GM
Click to expand...

Daryl Morey is the main decision maker for Philly. Not Brand. Philly brought Morey in because Brand needed help. Giving out Harris' contract was one of the reasons why Philly brought Morey in.

I've chosen to not go any further on your statement that Harris is a "star", but if you persist, we certainly can.
 
Last edited:
Jkbiker

Jkbiker

Starter
#87
#87
upinsmoke said:
Let's just continue to build through the draft and not make horrible mistakes like trading Fox for Simmons.
Click to expand...
No to Kuzma, No to Porzingas, No to Simmons

I hope Monte only makes trades that IMPROVE our team!

Would rather keep Buddy, Barnes, Bagley than trade into even bigger over pay contracts
Get a great lotto ball tonight, Draft a winner, concentrate on signing TD and Holmes

I have faith in you Monte, Dont make a bonehead win now trade!
 
upinsmoke

upinsmoke

All-Star
#89
#89
Jkbiker said:
No to Kuzma, No to Porzingas, No to Simmons

I hope Monte only makes trades that IMPROVE our team!

Would rather keep Buddy, Barnes, Bagley than trade into even bigger over pay contracts
Get a great lotto ball tonight, Draft a winner, concentrate on signing TD and Holmes

I have faith in you Monte, Dont make a bonehead win now trade!
Click to expand...
Let's just let Holmes walk we can replicate his production for much cheaper in the 2nd round or the g league.
 
M

mrlaze

Bench
#90
#90
His shot has been an issues since day one. He hasn't improved(and may be regressed?) as far as I can tell. I looked for a montage of his shot and it looks like he's never shot the ball in his life. Did no one ever tell him the very basics of forum? Did he just not care, or not listen?(either one is a red flag) How do you aspire to make a career of BBall, but never learn to shoot, even a little?!

At least Hali shoots from his forehead, he just (maybe) needs to tuck his elbow a bit more. But I'm not suggesting he change it anytime soon, his %'s are more than acceptable.

Personally I don't really get NBA level players who have weird shooting forms, you obviously put BBall high on your priorities list, but shooting wasn't high on the sub-list?

I dont think a Fox for Simmons trade makes us that much better. And I wouldn't trade shooters like Buddy for Simmons, 'cause he needs all the shooters he can get around him.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.