Trade Bagley?
- Thread starter Sac4cwebb
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SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
You can't judge any player on this squad until the cloud of Luke Walton is gone. These players aren't stupid they know the change is inevitable and outside of brief moments of pride that ship usually finds it way to that same dock. Until then it's just time wasted win or lose.
what is this supposed to mean lol
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
It means players will eventually let what is going to happen, happen even if their own game suffers. The edge starts wearing off. We've seen it time and time again. Players aren't going to live and die for a coach that's unlikely to stick. That's why lame duck coaches end up where they do and why typically franchises don't want to head into a new season with one.
If I am the front office I shop bagley hard, a playoff team with the right culture is where he belongs. They may be able to land a pair of firsts and a vet on an expiring contract that may re-up for near league minimum. I also shop Fox and try to get a big haul. Take on a bad contract or two and get multiple picks.
A lineup of haliburton, hield, Barnes, belija and whiteside is just as good as their current one. The king's missed their window you have to draft a pair of studs(embid, simmons) (Steph, Klay) (lillard, mccollum), (tatum,brown) bags just isn't that guy and fox, while very good, probably doesn't ever show up on the list of top point guards. Moving those guys clears a good chunk of cap to bring in surrounding talent with multiple lottery picks.
Walton is not the problem, the players are the issue. You have hield who thinks he is a legit #1 option that doesn't defend. Go ahead and list the #1 offensive options that don't defend. Nearly all of them come off the bench. Walton did that with hield and you all went on a run. Hields proper place is as a sixth man. Bags also doesn't rebound or defend at a high level, he too probably trends as a bench scorer, think mo speights. In this league you need to have two top 20 guys with selfless players beside them. My gut says fox doesn't get there either. Cut your losses and rebuild around haliburton.
I would steer clear of this unless you got word lauri will re-up in the 10-12 mil/yr range. Can't go spending 15-20 million over 4yrs on potential.
Lol this is exactly why luke isn't the problem.
You would need to throw in more salary to make it work(isn't joseph canadian?) I like it on paper but I doubt the raptors move him. I also don't think he gets the king's over the hump and into the playoffs. Better off going full scale rebuild. Only guys a keep are Barnes and haliburton.
Section 101
All-Star
Kings dont have G league this year. And I believe 3rd year players have to agree anyways.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Yeah, just like George Hill was the issue. Zbo was the issue. Dedmon was the issue. Yep, just all 16 players are the issue here. And Buddy has arguably been one the most solid defenders this season. Now, switching while playing 2 PGs and 2 bigs while also helping off the 3 point line in the process is not the players fault. Walton was run out of LA for reason. Last year he got his GM canned. This is on Monte the longer this **** show is allowed to go on. In the end the situation might not be salvageable but at this point it doesn't matter, the players have tuned out.
Why on god's green earth would a team give up a pair of 1st round picks and an expiring for Bagley?
Iced Espresso
Starter
Was talking with Bulls fans, many don't seem impressed with Bagley, if we want Lauri we have to bid for his services in FA most likely.
nobody is impress with bagley
Folsomkingsfan
Starter
Honestly if we got one late first round pick for Bagley I’d be shocked. His value is more second round pick and journey man rotation player.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Bagley is tied for the team lead in rpg with Holmes and Bagley averages 4 less mpg.
King Baller
All-Star
I think given time Bagley will dominate. He just needs to fill out his 21 year old frame and play ball.
Please explain the difference between talent and physical gifts.
Basketball is a pretty simple game. People can learn it in a few years. What you cannot teach is getting to the basket first and getting higher above the rim.
Given our franchise history it will happen the day after we move on. I'm not super down on him but I hate his stupid dad and Luke is definitely delaying his development right now which is highly problematic.
100% he is, the only thing is making sure you don't keep burning good investments after bad. I don't think it's time to trade him as we'd get taken to the cleaners right now. But we have to put him in the opportunity to succeed (which I am not sure we are) and have a firm set of expectations and plan. At least with Vlade gone when the time comes to admit we blew it I think Monte can do that.
Section 101
All-Star
Getting higher to the rim only matters if your in the right position to start with.
Talent = NBA skills and IQ. Physical gifts = running fast and jumping higher.
I'll take the bigger talent over physical gifts every time.
If that were the case you and I would be in the NBA. I can coach basketball. I used to be able to play it for 40 years. I had skills and IQ, but not the God given talent to play at that level.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Situation matters though. In todays league for sure take the talent since it's a skill league right now but it depends on how predominant ones skills are relative to their lack of those physical gifts.
Section 101
All-Star
Get real. Were talking about average physical NBA type players. Would you rather have Haliburton with average athleticism and high skills/IQ or Bagley with greater athleticism and low skills IQ?
Marvin Bagley has a 43.1 FG percentage
Richaun Holmes has a 69.7 FG percentage, literally one of the most efficient in the entire NBA!
Marvin Balgey is a pathetic 58.5% from the free throw stripe (Holmes 82.8%).
Holmes averges more points and assists per game. More than TWICE as many assists.
Holmes avg 1.5 blocks per game, Bagley 0.6.
Holmes a steal a game, Bagley 0.3.
So Holmes is better at FG, FT, points, blocks, steals, assists, but not as good of a rebounder, ok, good to know.
Bagley has a defended field goal percentage of 58.6% Holmes is at 43.6%.
This means players "defended" by Bagley (ha) so far this season will on average make a field goal against him 15% more of the time than Holmes.
Whiteside is at 38.1% and Hield at 57.2% for comparison.
Bagley Diff% 11.3, Holmes -4.3 (lower is better).
Holmes is at 1.6 team rebounds per game on box outs, Bagley 1.0.
Holmes screen assists per game 3.2, Bags 1.3.
Holmes leads in off loose balls recovered, defensive loose balls recovered, and contested shots per game.
Deflections per game Holmes 2.3, Bagley 0.4.
Don't cherry pick stats! Holmes is statstically better than Bags in almost every measured category.
Last edited:
Livinthedream
All-Star
Maybe you just need to get this out of your system, but the post you're responding to was addressing only one thing the previous poster said. That Bagley isn't interested in rebounding.
Hope I saved you some research time.
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