(Trade Artest for a solid PF) and Let Cisco start

[yaboy]

8th seed is not at all worse than sucking. If we have a good season despite being expected to be a low lottery team then it looks attractive to players from other teams who are FA's. If we lose Artest and Mike's contracts after this year that would be around 22 million in cap space to persue free agents.

Free agents want to come to teams that can compete. If we give off the appearence of being an up and coming team by getting into the playoffs with this roster then we will appear a lot more attractive to free agents and could maybe even land a big time player like an Elton Brand.

For an example of what I'm talking about look at the recent talks between the Warriors and Wolves about Kevin Garnett and compare them with trade talks between the Celtics and Wolves. Garnett didn't want to go to a team that he new had no chance of competing for a championship, so he was able to prevent a trade from happening with the Celtics. Golden State, despite not being that great of a team, still has a chance to land a big name player in a trade because of what they accomplished this season and in the playoffs. They would also be a strong contender in the free agent market if they had cap space.

So we shouldn't just attempt to tank the season in hopes that we get a good draft pick. We need to instead focus on rebuilding through trades and free agency if at all possible, and winning improves our ability to construct a good team through those means.

edit: What should be avoided though, is a season like this last one. We are honestly in the worst possible position to improve our team right now. Due to losing, our players have lowered values which makes trade more difficult. And we won just enough games to not have a good draft pick that could help us significantly in the next season. It also makes it more difficult for us to steal free agents away.

Winning doesn't guarantee any free agents signing under our team. Why win a little bit and waste another year of barely making it to the playoffs/8th/7th seed when you can grab your self some youth and potential in the lottery and wait for cap space in the future.

"Free agents want to come to teams that can compete" Not 100% true. If fact look at the Suns and how they became so good. Before Steve Nash came they were a lottery bound team but once they got Amare in the draft and signed steve nash during free agency they became good. If they continued to be pretenders they would of lost the chance to get Amare and just continue to suck.

Maybe you don't value the draft that much but as a fan i do. I want to see this team do its best next season but at the same time I want our young guys to play from the BEGINNING of the season not like last season where we started playing them when we knew we wouldn't make the playoffs. By doing this we are going to be a fun and decently atheletic team to watch but at the same time we can grab a nice pick in the lottery. I know its hard for season ticket holders and fans that are used to winning every season but it takes some losing to become good again. Luckily I as a fan have the patience and I hope the sacramento kings organization has the patience to rebuild instead of just trying to find a quick fix...

 

[Big Cuz 15]

8th seed is not at all worse than sucking. If we have a good season despite being expected to be a low lottery team then it looks attractive to players from other teams who are FA's. If we lose Artest and Mike's contracts after this year that would be around 22 million in cap space to persue free agents.

Free agents want to come to teams that can compete. If we give off the appearence of being an up and coming team by getting into the playoffs with this roster then we will appear a lot more attractive to free agents and could maybe even land a big time player like an Elton Brand.

For an example of what I'm talking about look at the recent talks between the Warriors and Wolves about Kevin Garnett and compare them with trade talks between the Celtics and Wolves. Garnett didn't want to go to a team that he new had no chance of competing for a championship, so he was able to prevent a trade from happening with the Celtics. Golden State, despite not being that great of a team, still has a chance to land a big name player in a trade because of what they accomplished this season and in the playoffs. They would also be a strong contender in the free agent market if they had cap space.

So we shouldn't just attempt to tank the season in hopes that we get a good draft pick. We need to instead focus on rebuilding through trades and free agency if at all possible, and winning improves our ability to construct a good team through those means.

edit: What should be avoided though, is a season like this last one. We are honestly in the worst possible position to improve our team right now. Due to losing, our players have lowered values which makes trade more difficult. And we won just enough games to not have a good draft pick that could help us significantly in the next season. It also makes it more difficult for us to steal free agents away.

nobody said we should tank. when your rebuilding, your gonna suck which equates to losses which also equates to getting a lottery pick. as long as our team is young and competitive, there is no need to rush back into the playoffs. face it, the team isn't going to be competing for a championship this year, next year and most likely the following.

 

[tjobrien]

"Free agents want to come to teams that can compete" Not 100% true. If fact look at the Suns and how they became so good. Before Steve Nash came they were a lottery bound team but once they got Amare in the draft and signed steve nash during free agency they became good. If they continued to be pretenders they would of lost the chance to get Amare and just continue to suck.

Though I generally agree with you, that is revisionist history at best.

In the 2003 playoffs, you may recall, a young Suns team, led by Stephon Marbury, Marion, and a rookie Amare Stoudemire fought fairly valiantly in the first round against the Spurs. Heading into the 03-04 season, many were pegging them as a team to watch out for. I forget the details, but that offseason Marbury became unhappy with the franchise. The egos of Marbury and the emerging Amare had something to do with it, I am sure. That season they got off to a horrible start and the locker room was reportedly a mess. They dealt Marbury and Penny's huge contracts to the Knicks early in the season, saving a reported $25 million over the next 2 seasons, which they obviously used to get Nash. They also got 2 first round draft picks.

Anyways, the team had no point guard to speak of that season, and obviously with that roster, it was a problem. Not to take anything away from Nash and what he means to that team, but he walked into a perfect situation. In 2002-03, the Suns won 44 games. With no point guard, they won 29. In Nash's first year there, they won 62. So it wasn't really a 33 game improvement as people said. It was 18, and that was with Amare in his 3rd year, as opposed to his first.

My point is...Nash was smart. He didn't see a team that won 29 games. He saw a team that was young, athletic, and perfectly fit his game. And he saw a heck of a lot more money than anyone else was offering.

 

[Jechtsphere]

i don't know why but i really want to see salmons start at sf, i think he can be a josh howard type of player, in that position salmons has decent speed, ok defense, ok offense, good ball handling & passing skills could be interesting.

Why? Cisco can do anything Salmons can do but better.

 

[dmj]

Winning doesn't guarantee any free agents signing under our team. Why win a little bit and waste another year of barely making it to the playoffs/8th/7th seed when you can grab your self some youth and potential in the lottery and wait for cap space in the future.

"Free agents want to come to teams that can compete" Not 100% true. If fact look at the Suns and how they became so good. Before Steve Nash came they were a lottery bound team but once they got Amare in the draft and signed steve nash during free agency they became good. If they continued to be pretenders they would of lost the chance to get Amare and just continue to suck.

Maybe you don't value the draft that much but as a fan i do. I want to see this team do its best next season but at the same time I want our young guys to play from the BEGINNING of the season not like last season where we started playing them when we knew we wouldn't make the playoffs. By doing this we are going to be a fun and decently atheletic team to watch but at the same time we can grab a nice pick in the lottery. I know its hard for season ticket holders and fans that are used to winning every season but it takes some losing to become good again. Luckily I as a fan have the patience and I hope the sacramento kings organization has the patience to rebuild instead of just trying to find a quick fix...

It isn't so much a matter of patience, it is more a matter of me thinking that we already have a good group of talented young players. What I believe we need to do is add talented vets who have already proven themselves.

We shouldn't put too much stock in the lottery. It is far from guaranteed that we will get a quality player out of it, and our best picks as a franchise have been non-lottery players.

And if you look at the history of our franchise, you'll see that our success came almost entirely from smart trades and free agent acquistions. The only part of our success that came from the draft was Peja, who we got at #14.

If we win then that makes our players more attractive to other teams in trade considerations, improves our team chemistry, and makes free agents give us more consideration than they normally would.

Of course, there are lots of different ways to rebuild a team and a draft based approach can work very well also, just look at the Blazers. I just think that we as a team should focus more on acquiring quality veterans and not so much on drafting more young players in order for us to rebuild.

 

[yaboy]

It isn't so much a matter of patience, it is more a matter of me thinking that we already have a good group of talented young players. What I believe we need to do is add talented vets who have already proven themselves.

We shouldn't put too much stock in the lottery. It is far from guaranteed that we will get a quality player out of it, and our best picks as a franchise have been non-lottery players.

And if you look at the history of our franchise, you'll see that our success came almost entirely from smart trades and free agent acquistions. The only part of our success that came from the draft was Peja, who we got at #14.

If we win then that makes our players more attractive to other teams in trade considerations, improves our team chemistry, and makes free agents give us more consideration than they normally would.

Of course, there are lots of different ways to rebuild a team and a draft based approach can work very well also, just look at the Blazers. I just think that we as a team should focus more on acquiring quality veterans and not so much on drafting more young players in order for us to rebuild.

Yes we got a good group of young talented players but guess what... We also got a inexperienced head coach along with a group of veterans. We can't focus on acquiring quality veterans... Not right now and probably not for a while. We need to get rid of our current veterans ASAP. Otherwise this team is just going to be mediocre. Of course we don't want to end up like the Hawks and be stuck in lottery.

But the fact is that I can't see this team making the players for at least the next 3 years if not more. Hate or love it thats just the way its going to be in the western conference. Other teams have gotten better in a quick pace. We're just starting to rebuild.

Do you really think we're going to be playoff bound once we get rid of Bibby and Artest?

Do you really believe that coach Theus, who has no nba experience will get this team over the top in 1-3 years. We are just in the beginning stages of the rebuilding process and who knows how our team will look in the future but i will guarantee you this that this team we currently have is far far away from competing in the tough western conference.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

It isn't so much a matter of patience, it is more a matter of me thinking that we already have a good group of talented young players. What I believe we need to do is add talented vets who have already proven themselves.

We shouldn't put too much stock in the lottery. It is far from guaranteed that we will get a quality player out of it, and our best picks as a franchise have been non-lottery players.

And if you look at the history of our franchise, you'll see that our success came almost entirely from smart trades and free agent acquistions. The only part of our success that came from the draft was Peja, who we got at #14.

If we win then that makes our players more attractive to other teams in trade considerations, improves our team chemistry, and makes free agents give us more consideration than they normally would.

Of course, there are lots of different ways to rebuild a team and a draft based approach can work very well also, just look at the Blazers. I just think that we as a team should focus more on acquiring quality veterans and not so much on drafting more young players in order for us to rebuild.

getting a high pick means you can pick from the cream of the crop whereas picking mid-late 1st round means scraps. i agree with you that the lottery is a crap shoot and nothing is guaranteed. however, its a better gamble than signing vets to stay mediocre. most of the up and coming teams are built with young cornerstone players. majority of them are acquired through the draft (the wades, lebrons, melos, stoudemire, duncan.)
so, you say you want to acquire "quality vets".. now tell us how we are to do that with us being cuffed to the salary cap right now. more MLE players? its easy to say lets do this or that but at least tell us how its going to get done.

 

[Circa_1985_Fan]

well, here we go again on the NY 'spin' cycle...blah blah blah(gotta love the NY Post):


ARTEST: KING ME!
RON CHANGES TUNE, DOESN’T WANT TRADE TO N.Y.
By MARC BERMAN
SAC ARTEST: Ron Artest, who previously had said his dream was to play for the Knicks, yesterday said, “I really want to finish my career inSacramento.”
SAC ARTEST: Ron Artest, who previously had said his dream was to play for the Knicks, yesterday said, “I really want to finish my career inSacramento.”


July 10, 2007 -- LAS VEGAS - In a stunning reversal, the flaky Ron Artest told The Post yesterday he wants to retire a Sacramento King and isn’t advocating a trade to the Knicks.

Artest, a Queens native who played for St. John’s, had been baking in the scorching Las Vegas sun poolside at the Palms Hotel for several hours before he made the unpredictable remarks. On multiple occasions, Artest had said his dream was to play for the Knicks.

“I really want to finish my career in Sacramento because of my relationship with some of the players,” Artest said. “I want to finish with Sacramento. I feel attached to Sacramento. I want to be their franchise player.

Artest claims Kings GM Geoff Petrie told him a couple of weeks ago he would not deal him, and Artest told Petrie he probably would not opt out after next season.

“They’re not going to trade me,” Artest said. “I had a good talk with [Petrie]. That’s what he told me. That’s the only thing I can go on. He’s happy to have me.”

Petrie backed up Artest’s claim.

“Ron is going to be a King,” Petrie told The Post last night before the Knicks beat the Sonics 87-74 in a summer-league game. Petrie denied he’s had any substantive talks with the Knicks. “People are having conversations with themselves,” Petrie said.

Artest’s remarks conflict with comments made last week by his agent, Mark Stevens, who indicated Artest would love to come back home. It’s very possible Artest is insulted at reports Isiah Thomas would not part with either David Lee or Renaldo Balkman in an Artest deal. Artest’s family members were stunned to hear that report. Artest’s brother, Daniel, who’s playing for the Kings’ summer-league team, said Artest is a better player than Lee.

“I have a chance to have great legacy and more All-Star games,” Artest said before leaving Vegas. “I think I’m in the category as Kobe, Tracy McGrady, LeBron James. Some things have derailed me.”

Asked about the excitement generated in New York in recent days by the possibility of Artest becoming a Knick, he said, “It makes me feel good people believe in my game like that. Without New York, without Rucker Park and all, I wouldn’t be the player I am. I hoped the Knicks had picked me in [1999], but they didn’t.”

Artest has two years left on his pact. On his possible opt-out after the season, Artest said, “I’m not looking to break the bank. I probably won’t opt out. I’m not chasing the money too much. I’m worried about winning more than opting out. For $8.5 million [in 2009-2010] I won’t complain.”

Artest said last year he would opt out after 2008-2009 and sign with the Knicks. But he claimed things have changed.

“I always want to see the Knicks do well and next year they have a chance to come out of the East with Zach (Randolph) and compete for a championship,” Artest said.

He said he doesn’t want to leave the friends he has made, such as Kevin Martin and two young fellow New Yorkers, Francisco Garcia and Quincy Douby.

Artest had his run-ins with Thomas when he played for him in Indiana.

“Isiah, he’s a great guy, always pushed me,” Artest said. “After Isiah departed, my career took off and it had a lot to do with playing for Isiah.”

Artest, his four kids and Artest’s father are in Las Vegas watching Daniel Artest play for the Kings’ summer-league team. They’re all staying at the famous Palms, owned by Kings owners, brothers Joe and Gavin Maloof.

“The Kings treat Ron real good,” Artest Sr. said. “They treat me real good. They treated me the best of all three teams. They seem to really, really like Ron. On the other hand, he’s a New Yorker. People in New York would love it.”

 

[hiero]

One thing I'm curious about is how Theus will use Cisco, since Theus said Musselman didn't use him properly. Having said that, I agree with VF. Now is the time to find out what Cisco can do. He can prove he's a worthy starter, a solid bencher or just can't get his game under control and make smarter decisions.

I love Cisco's heart and am hoping this is his year, though.

Personally I would love love to see him get significant playing time at PG. He has experience there, and his size matchup would be a huge advantage plus his long arms and ability to block shots would be a big plus for us at PG, compared to Bibby's defense.

 

[ntn9107]

Welcome to Kingsfans.com! We're always very happy to see fans from overseas posting.

As far as your question about Cisco goes, I'll try and answer it for you.

I think Cisco has a lot of potential. But, just like Jason Williams back when he also has some problems he really needs to work on. He's like the young labrador puppy who will do anything he can to please you, to the point of knocking over the furniture and destroying the china.

What I mean is that he has to learn a bit more control, primarily mentally. You cannot question his heart. He plays with hustle and conviction that I personally love to see. But he also plays right on the edge of being out of control. That's where, I think, a lot of his turnovers come from.

But having said all that, I would have no problems whatsoever with having Cisco start next season if Artest is traded. We're a team trying to rebuild and find a new identity. We're going to have to find out sooner or later if Cisco is going to be a part of the future of the team. Why not now? I sure think seeing him, Kevin, Spencer and Justin on the court, along with Bibby and/or whatever PG is brought in to spearhead the youth movement will be exciting if nothing else.

Thanks much VF21.. for welcoming me and for the info...

So I'm hoping to see Cisco start next season....
It just excites me to see him start since you all posted most were positive.

I hope Geoff is just bluffing when he said Ron's not going anywhere, well maybe, just maybe, he wanted Ron's value to go up.... so he can trade him for a good piece and NOT disapoint the Kings fans.