Tony Parker for 7th

I think Parker has all the markers of aging badly, but at the same time he has that shiftiness, savvy and innate scoring mentality that's actually a bit similar to Andre Miller. Miller's low key but is one of the most consistent players in the league, defying all odds of a sudden impact drop. I think Parker has the ability to be in that mold. I don't think he'll go gonzo like Kidd and suddenly develop legitimate three point accuracy at the back end of his career, plus he's nowhere near Kidd's level of passing ability or defense. With the amount of young guys on this team that were homegrown from year after year stocking up draft picks, we could sure use a veteran as well. I'm also a fan of players who spend all of their careers on one team playing heavy minutes before being traded to us--shows that the player has a winning pedigree and should be valued, and Parker is a Spur for 10 years. Mad props, and that's actually all the more alluring to me.

Cons: if we do get him, he might be hard to trade..he has that stigma of being a slashing guard in his 30s, and GMs tend to know that doesn't bode well. He'll be the 33 at the end of his deal, and even if he reaches Andre Miller like comparisons, he might not be good for the team as a whole. But...for the 7th pick? I'm mixed here. While I'm am not enamored with the guys overall at this pick, but there are two I like who will 95% be available when we pick: Tristan Thompson--who's not really getting the love in the high end and while he's not a star, he does remind me of a young pre-arthroscopic Kenyon Martin. Of course, I'm very intrigued by Biyombo as well, but both of these guys. Like Kemba Walker as well, but he's a 70 degree fit rather than purely perpendicular. We're also drafting at the range where a highly touted prospect could drop to us, like the aforementioned Kemba. Lots of possibilities to explore. So I'm intrigued by our pick...but looking at Parker within team construct, this is probably just a 50 degree fit. I mean, the guy's veteran leadership/championship pedigree/uni-team experience aspect is awesome and all that, but his ball-dominating, rim-slashing (might deteriorate with age, unless the Andre Miller route) abilities don't get with Reke's, and the skillset duplication and the lack of floor spacing with our guard corps could hurt the team in the long run (we're not exactly the best shooting team either, so this doesn't make sense for the time being).

I mean, there's a ton of reasons in the first paragraph that show Parker's allure here, but if we're swapping a very young, very good defensive presence in Thompson/Biyombo or a young waterbug (Kemba) for a much older waterbug (Parker), it doesn't make much sense here. Say Parker doesn't pan out after a year--shows trading the aforementioned defense for a has-been makes us the real losers of the trade. While Parker's leadership will help in the short term, even if he pans out I believe there might be a Brandon Roy-Andre Miller type situation brewing long term--two guys who can't optimize and who need the ball who just can't coexist, and it becomes alpha-dog type bickering. Reke and Parker are super nice, but if on-court play screws up win/loss totals, this can devolve rather quickly. So at the end, even if Parker maintains his value, I don't think the team as a whole can win out from this trade whatever the scenario.
 
The Kings are SO devoid of veteran leadership, anyone who is dismissing the infusion of vet leadership and clutch play is .... well, not realizing what the Kings lack.

The one thing the Kings do NOT need is another rookie that needs years of seasoning. (This rookie pool is SO hyped, they simply can't compare to a clutch vet)
We need an infusion of veteran clutchness so badly, it's critical.
Maybe you guys forget the actual GAMES from last year, where the squad basically fumbled away countless games in the 4th qtr?
The Kings need MULTIPLE vets to be competitive in this league - vets who can actually RUN A DAMN PLAY.
The Kings are a LONG way away from competing if they look past this big of an opportunity to acquire solid vets.

If they can afford to take on these (not poison) contracts from the Spurs, I say take the deal in a heartbeat!
Kings fans have been complaining about the PG and SF position for many months, and then a possible deal comes to fill the needs and now they're balking at it?!
 
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I heard that the Spurs have contacted teams to trade Hill for a pick around 10,11, or 12. How about giving them the #7 for him, as well as not taking Jefferson
 
I like the idea of getting a proven vet PG in a trade, but not at the expense of losing all our cap space(and getting sandbagged with a bad contract in the process)to fill our more glaring SF needs...i.e.: Kirilenko, Prince or Battier.
 
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Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
The Kings are SO devoid of veteran leadership, anyone who is dismissing the infusion of vet leadership and clutch play is .... well, not realizing what the Kings lack.

The one thing the Kings do NOT need is another rookie that needs years of seasoning. (This rookie pool is SO hyped, they simply can't compare to a clutch vet)
We need an infusion of veteran clutchness so badly, it's critical.
Maybe you guys forget the actual GAMES from last year, where the squad basically fumbled away countless games in the 4th qtr?
The Kings need MULTIPLE vets to be competitive in this league - vets who can actually RUN A DAMN PLAY.
The Kings are a LONG way away from competing if they look past this big of an opportunity to acquire solid vets.

If they can afford to take on these (not poison) contracts from the Spurs, I say take the deal in a heartbeat!
Kings fans have been complaining about the PG and SF position for many months, and then a possible deal comes to fill the needs and now they're balking at it?!
How many major steadying vets did OKC add a couple of years ago when they emerged? Hey, I will take one if they come on a reasonable contract and fill a need. Welcome! But the thing about young players is that inevitably grow, learn, and pretty quickly they are the steady vets.

Here's the other thing, as of right now we WILL add a steadying vet to this team. That's what all this money will do for you. Its not a question of Tony Parker or no steadying vet. Its a question of WHICH steadying vet, which position they come in to play, and how much they cost. If Parker cost $7mil this would be a much easier conversation. He costs 13mil. For 4 years. If he comes with Jefferson he costs $22mil for 4 years. A third of your cap.
 
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I will say this .. someone tweeted about an hour ago, I cant even remember who cause my brain is pretty much turning to mush will all this trade talk, but someone said Sac wont deal for Parker because of his contract, but Felton for 7 is still in play.

I would take Parker and the bad Jefferson contract before I take a one year rental on Felton any day of the week. Felton for #7 would be a terrible trade. One of Petries worst. It cant be even remotely true.
Yeah, chris broussard said it.
 
The Kings are SO devoid of veteran leadership, anyone who is dismissing the infusion of vet leadership and clutch play is .... well, not realizing what the Kings lack.

The one thing the Kings do NOT need is another rookie that needs years of seasoning. (This rookie pool is SO hyped, they simply can't compare to a clutch vet)
We need an infusion of veteran clutchness so badly, it's critical.
Maybe you guys forget the actual GAMES from last year, where the squad basically fumbled away countless games in the 4th qtr?
The Kings need MULTIPLE vets to be competitive in this league - vets who can actually RUN A DAMN PLAY.
The Kings are a LONG way away from competing if they look past this big of an opportunity to acquire solid vets.

If they can afford to take on these (not poison) contracts from the Spurs, I say take the deal in a heartbeat!
Kings fans have been complaining about the PG and SF position for many months, and then a possible deal comes to fill the needs and now they're balking at it?!
The fact is taking parker eats up salary.... for a 17ppg 6apg pointguard. beno can average 12ppg and 4apg on a solid season at less pay, the fact is the spurs deal is HORRIBLE absolutely horrible. RJ and TP are good players, brick said it himself a THIRD of our cap, so how will we sign reke and DMC when the time comes?

Jefferson and TP if they pan out its good. fine. but realistically it could end up bad for us, we get tied down with their contracts we'd be looking at another kenny thomas like contract. sure right now parker sounds like a bargain a steal for us.. in two years he's going to look overpaid and over-rated year 3 and we all know how much painful that was.

Beno and Garcia are solid Vets. imo, this year could be a good one for both guys, cisco a year after his freak injury, and beno seems to complement well coming off the bench.
 
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According to almost everyone, taking on RJ's contract would be a big favor to the Spurs.
So it's likely they'd have to take on Beno or Cisco to get that trade -

Since most KF's seem to think Beno and his contract are terrible (I don't) and I think Cisco is almost useless on the floor, that would boil down to trading one of them + $3-4 million for RJ.
I'd rather pay $4 more and have RJ than Cisco ANY day.

But let's just focus on Tony Parker.

First, STOP COMPARING THE KINGS TO OKC.
Until the Kings remotely PERFORM like OKC has, than they are not similar enough to make personnel decisions about.
Durant does not = Tyreke and DMC does not = Westbrook

Does KF's think they can get proven clutch vet players on the cheap?
Backups in the NBA make $6 to $7 million, yet people here are balking at $12.5 million?
I hate to have to point out the obvious, but the Kings have spent a hell of a lot of money through the years for NBA backups, but paying twice that much to get a real NBA starter is a bad deal?

In tight games (which I'm sure we all HOPE the Kings will be in a lot of next year), Tony Parker is a reliable source of open drives/shots.
Can you imagine the pick-and-roll with him and DMC?
Then again, the Kings' coaching staff seems incapable of running an NBA pick-and-roll offense, so if they did pickup TP I'm sure he'd never run a successful pick-and-roll again as long as he was here... :rolleyes:
 
I will say this .. someone tweeted about an hour ago, I cant even remember who cause my brain is pretty much turning to mush will all this trade talk, but someone said Sac wont deal for Parker because of his contract, but Felton for 7 is still in play.

I would take Parker and the bad Jefferson contract before I take a one year rental on Felton any day of the week. Felton for #7 would be a terrible trade. One of Petries worst. It cant be even remotely true.
Sigh. Same old cheap Kings. Nothing has changed. They talk the talk but don't walk the walk.
 
Sigh. Same old cheap Kings. Nothing has changed. They talk the talk but don't walk the walk.
Thankfully they're not walking this walk. The point of cap space is not, as you keep insisting, so that we can take back a poor contract to get another player (who btw is also on a poor contract). It's to sign players in FA, to take back more salary in a trade (that doesn't mean let other teams dump their overpaid players on us), and to re-sign our own players. Especially since we have owners who aren't finding things easy at the moment - and that's reality.
 
According to almost everyone, taking on RJ's contract would be a big favor to the Spurs.
So it's likely they'd have to take on Beno or Cisco to get that trade -

Since most KF's seem to think Beno and his contract are terrible (I don't) and I think Cisco is almost useless on the floor, that would boil down to trading one of them + $3-4 million for RJ.
I'd rather pay $4 more and have RJ than Cisco ANY day.

But let's just focus on Tony Parker.

First, STOP COMPARING THE KINGS TO OKC.
Until the Kings remotely PERFORM like OKC has, than they are not similar enough to make personnel decisions about.
Durant does not = Tyreke and DMC does not = Westbrook

Does KF's think they can get proven clutch vet players on the cheap?
Backups in the NBA make $6 to $7 million, yet people here are balking at $12.5 million?

I hate to have to point out the obvious, but the Kings have spent a hell of a lot of money through the years for NBA backups, but paying twice that much to get a real NBA starter is a bad deal?

In tight games (which I'm sure we all HOPE the Kings will be in a lot of next year), Tony Parker is a reliable source of open drives/shots.
Can you imagine the pick-and-roll with him and DMC?
Then again, the Kings' coaching staff seems incapable of running an NBA pick-and-roll offense, so if they did pickup TP I'm sure he'd never run a successful pick-and-roll again as long as he was here... :rolleyes:
It's uncanny, isn't it? I've never seen a more finicky bunch of fans. A chance to get one of the top 10 PGs in the league and folks crucify the idea because they apparently don't want anyone on the roster making more than 10 million per unless they're LeBron James, Dwight Howard, etc. Heck, I bet these guys would even find something to complain about in a potential Howard trade. These are the same folks who would rather have Dalembert than Bosh, lol. The thing that gets me most about it, is that hardly any of the people who shoot down every trade ever offer any ideas of their own that they think might be better. Apparently they want the team to just timidly horde cap-space and hope that the perfect players just magically fall into their lap.
 
It's not being cheap its being smart with using capspace... I tell you now Parker would look overpaid for that kind of salary... they are dumping salaries because they want to get a young point or even jonas valanciunas and retool with the free agency.

remember SA is also a small market and capspace is a must for them.
 
Thankfully they're not walking this walk. The point of cap space is not, as you keep insisting, so that we can take back a poor contract to get another player (who btw is also on a poor contract). It's to sign players in FA, to take back more salary in a trade (that doesn't mean let other teams dump their overpaid players on us), and to re-sign our own players. Especially since we have owners who aren't finding things easy at the moment - and that's reality.
I wouldn't say it's the point but I'd say it's one of the benefits of having a lot of cap space. People are grossly exaggerating how bad Parker and Jefferson's contracts are anyway. You couldn't get Parker or a player of his caliber in free agency for any less than than Parker is making now. Even a player like Jefferson would cost you five or six million in free agency. So basically you're overpaying by about four million to fill the two biggest roster needs for the next four years. Do you really think that extra four million or so is going to cripple the team? We're not talking Rashard Lewis/Vince Carter type contract here, but folks are acting like we are.
 
It's not being cheap its being smart with using capspace... I tell you now Parker would look overpaid for that kind of salary... they are dumping salaries because they want to get a young point or even jonas valanciunas and retool with the free agency.

remember SA is also a small market and capspace is a must for them.
So horde cap-space to spend in a free agent marker that doesn't have any players as good as Parker and that comes with absolutely no guarantee of signing anyone anyways. Brilliant! I think I've seen the light. The plan is get better by avoiding aggressive, ambitious moves. Just hang back, play it safe, don't take any chances, etc. Yep, that will work wonderfully.
 

Spike

Subsidiary Intermediary
Staff member
It's not being cheap its being smart with using capspace... I tell you now Parker would look overpaid for that kind of salary... they are dumping salaries because they want to get a young point or even jonas valanciunas and retool with the free agency.

remember SA is also a small market and capspace is a must for them.
Yes!

The Kings are in a position to spend wisely and people just want to spend it all in one shot for the sake of spending. We've waited years for this point, and we know what our targets are:

Thornton
Dalembert
FA SF

Which will STILL leave us with money to spend - I think. There's a reason so many teams are floating their overpaid players at us. They're hoping we'll bite to help them relieve their own cap issues. We can afford to be wise spenders, especially with the potential of a new CBA or lockout. We play it right, we'll get younger players, or even vets that are better fits.

You don't just jump on an offer because you have capspace. That's what gets you in further troubles, just as Atlanta. It's not our job to save the other teams.

It's not our job to save the other teams.



BTW, I would still have Dalembert on this team than Bosh. ;)
 
Yes!

The Kings are in a position to spend wisely and people just want to spend it all in one shot for the sake of spending. We've waited years for this point, and we know what our targets are:

Thornton
Dalembert
FA SF

Which will STILL leave us with money to spend - I think. There's a reason so many teams are floating their overpaid players at us. They're hoping we'll bite to help them relieve their own cap issues. We can afford to be wise spenders, especially with the potential of a new CBA or lockout. We play it right, we'll get younger players, or even vets that are better fits.

You don't just jump on an offer because you have capspace. That's what gets you in further troubles, just as Atlanta. It's not our job to save the other teams.

It's not our job to save the other teams.



BTW, I would still have Dalembert on this team than Bosh. ;)
LOL. You guys kill me! Adding an all star PG and a SF that's better than any SF they have is "spending for the sake of spending"? You've got to be kidding me! Have you looked at the free agent class this year? It's mostly big men. There's no quality PGs or SFs out there. You're not going to do any better than Parker/Jefferson in this year's FA market.
 
Yes!

The Kings are in a position to spend wisely and people just want to spend it all in one shot for the sake of spending. We've waited years for this point, and we know what our targets are:

Thornton
Dalembert
FA SF

Which will STILL leave us with money to spend - I think. There's a reason so many teams are floating their overpaid players at us. They're hoping we'll bite to help them relieve their own cap issues. We can afford to be wise spenders, especially with the potential of a new CBA or lockout. We play it right, we'll get younger players, or even vets that are better fits.

You don't just jump on an offer because you have capspace. That's what gets you in further troubles, just as Atlanta. It's not our job to save the other teams.

It's not our job to save the other teams.



BTW, I would still have Dalembert on this team than Bosh. ;)
As would anyone who understands basketball - for this team. Bosh is overrated, doesn't play defense and is a whiny little b****. Dalembert is perfect for this team, and guys like him are a must for any team looking to win a championship. It's a shame some people are interested only in points.
 
LOL. You guys kill me! Adding an all star PG and a SF that's better than any SF they have is "spending for the sake of spending"? You've got to be kidding me! Have you looked at the free agent class this year? It's mostly big men. There's no quality PGs or SFs out there. You're not going to do any better than Parker/Jefferson in this year's FA market.
Prince? Kirilenko? I'd even prefer Pietrus to Jefferson, and all can be had on much better contracts. Meanwhile we can get a PG in the draft who will compliment who we have much better (Fredette, Walker etc.). And wait, there's more! We don't use up almost all our cap space! In fact, we still have more than enough left over to re-sign Thornton and Dally! Who would have thunk it!
 
As would anyone who understands basketball - for this team. Bosh is overrated, doesn't play defense and is a whiny little b****. Dalembert is perfect for this team, and guys like him are a must for any team looking to win a championship. It's a shame some people are interested only in points.
Puhlease, spare us the "if you understood basketball you'd agree with me" bit. I flat out GUARANTEE you that tons of people who understand basketball very well would take Bosh in a NY minute and would laugh their collective a**es off at all the folks who wanted Dalembert.
 

Spike

Subsidiary Intermediary
Staff member
LOL. You guys kill me! Adding an all star PG and a SF that's better than any SF they have is "spending for the sake of spending"? You've got to be kidding me! Have you looked at the free agent class this year? It's mostly big men. There's no quality PGs or SFs out there. You're not going to do any better than Parker/Jefferson in this year's FA market.
How well does Parker fit next to Evans? He doesn't. At all.

Jefferson had a good year, and has had good years, but he's also aging, and hasn't been able to rely on his athleticism like he has in the past. This team may put us in the playoffs, and we would likely get bounced in the first round.

It is absolutely spending for the sake of spending. If you resign Thornton and Dalembert, you still have money to go after a good, young SF in free agency. If you can't get the one you're looking for, you still have the cap flexibility to get one back in a trade. You won't have that flexibility with Parker and Jefferson.
 
Prince? Kirilenko? I'd even prefer Pietrus to Jefferson, and all can be had on much better contracts. Meanwhile we can get a PG in the draft who will compliment who we have much better (Fredette, Walker etc.). And wait, there's more! We don't use up almost all our cap space! In fact, we still have more than enough left over to re-sign Thornton and Dally! Who would have thunk it!
If you think you're getting Kirilenko for less than what Jefferon makes, you need to put the pipe down. Kirilenko will cost at least 9 million per. Prince may be somewhat less but not much. And guess what wise guy, they have enough to adsorb Parker and Jefferson's contracts and STILL resign Thornton and Dalembert. That's why I've been so adamant in my support of this.
 
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How well does Parker fit next to Evans? He doesn't. At all.

Jefferson had a good year, and has had good years, but he's also aging, and hasn't been able to rely on his athleticism like he has in the past. This team may put us in the playoffs, and we would likely get bounced in the first round.

It is absolutely spending for the sake of spending. If you resign Thornton and Dalembert, you still have money to go after a good, young SF in free agency. If you can't get the one you're looking for, you still have the cap flexibility to get one back in a trade. You won't have that flexibility with Parker and Jefferson.
How does ANYONE fit next to Evans? It seems like any name that's mentioned, the response is "they won't fit next to Evans". So then who the heck will fit next to him? And no it's not spending for the sake of spending. It's spending for the sake of making the team a lot better.
 
Puhlease, spare us the "if you understood basketball you'd agree with me" bit. I flat out GUARANTEE you that tons of people who understand basketball very well would take Bosh in a NY minute and would laugh their collective a**es off at all the folks who wanted Dalembert.
Well I didn't say that, but nice try. And I really don't care what a bunch of other casual fans have to say on the matter. And pretty much no one outside of Sacramento would have any idea as to who's better for this team between Dally and Bosh. You genuinely lack an understanding of basketball if you think swapping Dalembert for Bosh would bring us closer to a championship. Defensive 7 footers are much harder to find than skilled softish PFs who can score. I wouldn't expect you to grasp that, though.
 
If you think you're getting Kirilenko for less than what Jefferon makes, you need to put the pipe down. Kirilenko will cost at least 9 million per. Prince may be somewhat less but not much. And guess what wise guy, they have enough to adsorb Parker and Jefferson's contracts and STILL resign Thornton and Dalembert. That's why I've been so adamant in my support of this.
The whole point is that they're significantly better than Jefferson, and especially so for this team. How you can't grasp something so simple is amazing. And signing Thornton and Dally after getting Parker and Jefferson is not guaranteed, we would be cutting ourselves very tight as Baja has already pointed out. Not worth the risk at all.
 

Spike

Subsidiary Intermediary
Staff member
The point that is being missed, is that Parker and Jefferson would take a third of the current capspace. That capspace is predicted to go down in the new CBA. You lose flexibility, you lose the ability to resign players like Thompson, and potentially Evans/Cousins. Supes pointed out that playing around with capspace prior to the new CBA is a pretty bad idea - I'll agree with him on this one. I would rather wait. If there's a lockout, then there's a lockout and we haven't absorbed any extra bloated contracts.

It's foolish to take on money right now. We'll know more about the CBA by the 30th. I've waited years, I can wait days.
 
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Well I didn't say that, but nice try.
You said “As would anyone who understands basketball”. Same thing.

And I really don't care what a bunch of other casual fans have to say on the matter.
So only “casual fans” would take Bosh over Dalembert? No coaches, GMs, analysts, etc. would?

And pretty much no one outside of Sacramento would have any idea as to who's better for this team between Dally and Bosh.
LOL. I don’t know what to say to that other than to call it the utter nonsense that it is.

You genuinely lack an understanding of basketball if you think swapping Dalembert for Bosh would bring us closer to a championship.
I’ll say it again. Puhlease, spare us the "if you understood basketball you'd agree with me" bit.

Defensive 7 footers are much harder to find than skilled softish PFs who can score.
Yeah? And? What’s that got to do with whether Bosh or Dalembert will help a team more?

I wouldn't expect you to grasp that, though.
Yeah well you know, we can’t all be experts.
 
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How you can't grasp something so simple is amazing.
Where did I say they weren’t better???

And signing Thornton and Dally after getting Parker and Jefferson is not guaranteed
It isn’t guaranteed under any circumstance. Other than stating the obvious, what’s your point?

we would be cutting ourselves very tight as Baja has already pointed out. Not worth the risk at all.
So what? Cutting it tight is where you want to be. Nine times out of ten the team that’s cutting it tight is better than the team that’s hoarding cap space waiting for a sweetheart deal to fall into their laps.
 
The point that is being missed, is that Parker and Jefferson would take a third of the current capspace. That capspace is predicted to go down in the new CBA. You lose flexibility, you lose the ability to resign players like Thompson, and potentially Evans/Cousins.
What would cause you to think that was being missed? By the time Evans and Cousins need new deals, Parker and Jefferson’s contract would be expiring. That’s why it would work. I am not stupid. I’m not just going to blindly endorse this deal if it was going to jeopardize keeping Evans or Cousins.

Supes pointed out that playing around with capspace prior to the new CBA is a pretty bad idea - I'll agree with him on this one. I would rather wait. If there's a lockout, then there's a lockout and we haven't absorbed any extra bloated contracts.
Well that is true. I never denied that. I’m just going on the latest 62 million figure that the owners have thrown out there. They’ve already backed way off their initial 45 million hard cap goal. The fact that they’re throwing a 62 million flex cap out there tells me their buckeling.