Tony Parker for 7th
- Thread starter =LarryLegend=
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Its good to see us liked with a big time deal but i do question this and how it fits with our team. Its the right type of move with the wrong type of player for me. The fit is questionable and if were looking to make a big time deal id like to see it having a greater impact for us then what parker would bring. Id much rather we stay the course and draft well and wait for the right type of deal to come along.
Wow, what a tough crowd. We won 24 games last year, and we have a chance to bring in an experienced, just turned 29 years of age in may, all star PG, and no one wants him. Truthfully, I'm not sure how good a fit he would be. I could argue for both sides if I wanted to. So I won't take a side, and I'll leave it up to Petrie to figure it out. But before we go bonkers criticizing his shooting, I should point out that no one on the Kings roster thats a guard shoots the ball much better. Beno shot the exact same percentage, and Thornton shot 36.1% vrs Parkers 35.7%. Not much difference there.
Parker also averaged 6.1 Assists over the last five years to go along with 2.5 turnovers. Very good ratio. Also, for those of you that would have just loved Kemba Walker for our draft pick, you tell me what Walker brings that Parker doesn't bring. You tell me how different they are as players. Of course Walker would be a damm site cheaper! I'm not advocating that we trade for Parker. But lets at least be honest about what kind of player Parker is, and what he brings to the table. He's an all star with a couple of championship rings. He knows how to play the game, and he certainly knows how to play under pressure. Obviously if he were to come here, then Beno is probably history. As for shots to go around, well he only took around 3 more shots a game than Beno did.
And by the way, I believe he got divorced if memory serves.
Parker also averaged 6.1 Assists over the last five years to go along with 2.5 turnovers. Very good ratio. Also, for those of you that would have just loved Kemba Walker for our draft pick, you tell me what Walker brings that Parker doesn't bring. You tell me how different they are as players. Of course Walker would be a damm site cheaper! I'm not advocating that we trade for Parker. But lets at least be honest about what kind of player Parker is, and what he brings to the table. He's an all star with a couple of championship rings. He knows how to play the game, and he certainly knows how to play under pressure. Obviously if he were to come here, then Beno is probably history. As for shots to go around, well he only took around 3 more shots a game than Beno did.
And by the way, I believe he got divorced if memory serves.
I don't like Parker as our vet because of what will happen when he leaves. Our teams offense is going to be designed for and run by someone who might not be around in a few years, if he decides to leave or retire, right when we should be hitting our peak as a team. Having him leave at that point would set us way back imo. If Tyreke isn't our PG we need someone who we know we can direct our offense for years to come without the fear of him leaving and putting us in shambles.
There is some real talent floating around the rumor mill right now... Josh Smith, Iggy, Felton. I'd rather go after someone along those lines. Apparently the T-Wolves don't want to draft Derrick Williams, so going after that pick is something i'd like our team to inquire about as well.
There is some real talent floating around the rumor mill right now... Josh Smith, Iggy, Felton. I'd rather go after someone along those lines. Apparently the T-Wolves don't want to draft Derrick Williams, so going after that pick is something i'd like our team to inquire about as well.
7 for Tony Parker straight up? Dude, where can we sign up for this. He would obviously change his role when comes here but he will bring leadership and championship experience to a squad that needs it so badly. It's not like he some scrub player that won a championship. He was one of the main cogs of a championship organization. Anything he says to the team would carry more weight than what Francisco Garcia can say to them.
I'd do it, and as others have said, it can have many longterm benifits. So TP has 4 yrs left on his contract? If so, Reke would be 25 when TP's contract expires, and still a season or two from his prime.
Now, is TP the perfect fit? No. But he's not as poor of a shooter as many make him out to be. I watch SA a fair amount, and TP is one of the better pick & roll pg's in the league. You can't do that without the ability to hit jumpers coming off a screen. He's not a great shooter, but he's above average out to about 22ft. A little short of the NBA 3. One thing he isn't though is a volume shooter, or a player who needs shots. He has taken a backseat before, and is a very calming, steadying presence on the court. He can get his shot off one on one when needed, by attacking the paint, and can create. He's also used to playing off Duncan/Ginobili. Playing without the ball won't be foreign to him.
Going back to Reke though, it's great to say with experience and time he'll learn how to run a team, and that his decision making will improve whe having the added responsibility of keeping everyone involved, and getting guys the ball where they can be effective, which a pg needs to do. It's not just setting up and offense, which Reke needs to learn. but also how to keep Cousins and Thornton involved, and getting them shots and the ball in a position where they can be effective.
I think TP would be a phenomenal teacher for Reke. Even if Reke has the ball less, and doesn't get as many opportunities(I do think he'll become more efficient with less opportunities), he'll be a better player in his prime, if he's going to have complete control over a team offense down the road. He obviously has a lot to learn, as many young players do, but he also needs someone to teach it to him. Beno is not that guy, as much as I love him. Neither is Cisco. Reke's understanding of the game would grow incredibly by spending 3-4 yrs playing with TP.
Again, not the ideal match, but definitely good enough. More importantly, the knowledge Reke would soak up, and that his mental outlook on the game would grow by leaps and bounds, I don't see how you don't pull the trigger. If you picture Reke leading a team to a championship someday, and being the floor general, he has to learn it from someone. He needs a mentor, and one which is not currently on the roster. Maybe 4 years seems too much to some. To them I say don't be foolish. Reke would be 25, and Cousins 24 when that contract expires. If TP did come over, IMO, Reke would be a better a player at 25 than if he didn't come over, and be much better prepered to lead a team deep into the playoffs.
Now, is TP the perfect fit? No. But he's not as poor of a shooter as many make him out to be. I watch SA a fair amount, and TP is one of the better pick & roll pg's in the league. You can't do that without the ability to hit jumpers coming off a screen. He's not a great shooter, but he's above average out to about 22ft. A little short of the NBA 3. One thing he isn't though is a volume shooter, or a player who needs shots. He has taken a backseat before, and is a very calming, steadying presence on the court. He can get his shot off one on one when needed, by attacking the paint, and can create. He's also used to playing off Duncan/Ginobili. Playing without the ball won't be foreign to him.
Going back to Reke though, it's great to say with experience and time he'll learn how to run a team, and that his decision making will improve whe having the added responsibility of keeping everyone involved, and getting guys the ball where they can be effective, which a pg needs to do. It's not just setting up and offense, which Reke needs to learn. but also how to keep Cousins and Thornton involved, and getting them shots and the ball in a position where they can be effective.
I think TP would be a phenomenal teacher for Reke. Even if Reke has the ball less, and doesn't get as many opportunities(I do think he'll become more efficient with less opportunities), he'll be a better player in his prime, if he's going to have complete control over a team offense down the road. He obviously has a lot to learn, as many young players do, but he also needs someone to teach it to him. Beno is not that guy, as much as I love him. Neither is Cisco. Reke's understanding of the game would grow incredibly by spending 3-4 yrs playing with TP.
Again, not the ideal match, but definitely good enough. More importantly, the knowledge Reke would soak up, and that his mental outlook on the game would grow by leaps and bounds, I don't see how you don't pull the trigger. If you picture Reke leading a team to a championship someday, and being the floor general, he has to learn it from someone. He needs a mentor, and one which is not currently on the roster. Maybe 4 years seems too much to some. To them I say don't be foolish. Reke would be 25, and Cousins 24 when that contract expires. If TP did come over, IMO, Reke would be a better a player at 25 than if he didn't come over, and be much better prepered to lead a team deep into the playoffs.
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- One of the elite point guards in the NBA.
- In his prime now.
- Will be leaving his prime when his contract is up, only has a four year deal. Even at 33 he should be great.
- Proven leadership and abilities.
- Costs us the #7 pick in a draft class that has been called very weak.
We've got the money to pay this guy and he immediately makes our team better at a position that hasn't been a strong point, and he's someone our young guys can learn from. If the Spurs are willing to give him up for just the #7 pick, this is a "Where do I sign, and how soon can we do it?" deal.
I think the Spurs could get a lot better for him than the #7 pick, but maybe they want to dump his salary and rebuild...
- In his prime now.
- Will be leaving his prime when his contract is up, only has a four year deal. Even at 33 he should be great.
- Proven leadership and abilities.
- Costs us the #7 pick in a draft class that has been called very weak.
We've got the money to pay this guy and he immediately makes our team better at a position that hasn't been a strong point, and he's someone our young guys can learn from. If the Spurs are willing to give him up for just the #7 pick, this is a "Where do I sign, and how soon can we do it?" deal.
I think the Spurs could get a lot better for him than the #7 pick, but maybe they want to dump his salary and rebuild...
Also, there's a good counter-part forum for Spurs fans where they're discussing this same rumor here. http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=182025
IMO, nice to see what's being said on the other side of the fence.
IMO, nice to see what's being said on the other side of the fence.
Funny, a lot of people on the SpursTalk board were saying they wanted Casspi included. Honestly, #7 + Casspi makes more sense for SA. I still don't think it's a smart trade for the Spurs, but I think it's a win for the Kings, so I'm all for it.
A lot of the SpursTalk members also said they put a lot of faith in the report because it's coming from Wojnarowski. This might not get done, deals fall apart all of the time, but most of them seem to believe talks are going on.
A lot of the SpursTalk members also said they put a lot of faith in the report because it's coming from Wojnarowski. This might not get done, deals fall apart all of the time, but most of them seem to believe talks are going on.
There's a fair bit of conjecture here, just to state that in advance. Latest proposal I saw put the salary cap for next season at 62 million, this could very well change, but...
Kings at 27 million right now. Need like 1-2ish million for their two second round draft picks, so 29 million. TP eats up like 13 million for his contract, putting us at 42 million for the year. Resign Dalembert to a deal around 10 million, and that's still 10 million (roughly) to spend on a quality SF. Casspi doesn't make a lot, but if he's included that's a bit more wiggle room as well.
So, the Kings have quite a bit of money left over if they bring in Parker, especially if they're not able to re-sign Dalembert, but I believe the organization said bringing him back is a priority, so I think they will make a heavy effort.
Kings at 27 million right now. Need like 1-2ish million for their two second round draft picks, so 29 million. TP eats up like 13 million for his contract, putting us at 42 million for the year. Resign Dalembert to a deal around 10 million, and that's still 10 million (roughly) to spend on a quality SF. Casspi doesn't make a lot, but if he's included that's a bit more wiggle room as well.
So, the Kings have quite a bit of money left over if they bring in Parker, especially if they're not able to re-sign Dalembert, but I believe the organization said bringing him back is a priority, so I think they will make a heavy effort.
Well, not quite top-30. By my count his $12.5M per year is tied with one other contract for 40th among outstanding contracts (contracts for next season at least) in terms of dollars per year over the lifetime. There are another 16 outstanding contracts worth at least $10M per year, for a total of 57 contracts either bigger or within sniffing distance. So, at this point your average team has two guys in the Tony Parker price range. We don't have any, so it's reasonable to think we can afford him.
If you look at advanced stats (which I know you hate, but here you go anyway) Parker was 27th in Win Shares and 26th in PER among players with 1500+ minutes last year, so he may be outperforming that salary a little. Among PGs he was 5th in points per game, 15th in assists per game, 8th in TS% and 1st in FG%.
The thing is, we know who Tony Parker is. He's a proven commodity. He's a veteran in the prime of his career, a three-time All-Star, and if anything it looks to me like he's just a little bit underpaid right now. We have money to spend, and we can afford him. Presumably as the salary cap drops over the next few years his contract will be a bit less palatable, but as it stands right now with Parker in the wing and without sending off a contract like Beno to counter his money, we would be at the following salary levels:
2011-2012: $40M for 9 players (Evans, Cousins, Parker, Beno, Cisco, Thompson, Casspi, Greene, Whiteside)
2012-2013: $38M for 7 players (Evans, Cousins, Parker, Beno, Cisco, Casspi, Whiteside)
2013-2014: $18M for 3 players (Cousins, Parker, Whiteside)
Everybody else that we would sign to fill out the roster for now and the future would be signed under the new CBA rules where we would still have a decent advantage over most teams in cap space and would of course be smaller deals than we are used to now (by, what, maybe 30%?). We can totally survive Parker's contract if we trade for him, and things only look better if we can strongarm the Spurs into taking Beno back (or find a third team to shift Beno's deal to if Pop refuses Beno for personal reasons). I think he's worth the gamble at this point. Unless we really love a guy at #7 (somehow I don't see Fredette or Leonard leading us to the playoffs next year, but Parker, yes) or we see a better way to spend the money, I think we have to go for it.
If you look at advanced stats (which I know you hate, but here you go anyway) Parker was 27th in Win Shares and 26th in PER among players with 1500+ minutes last year, so he may be outperforming that salary a little. Among PGs he was 5th in points per game, 15th in assists per game, 8th in TS% and 1st in FG%.
The thing is, we know who Tony Parker is. He's a proven commodity. He's a veteran in the prime of his career, a three-time All-Star, and if anything it looks to me like he's just a little bit underpaid right now. We have money to spend, and we can afford him. Presumably as the salary cap drops over the next few years his contract will be a bit less palatable, but as it stands right now with Parker in the wing and without sending off a contract like Beno to counter his money, we would be at the following salary levels:
2011-2012: $40M for 9 players (Evans, Cousins, Parker, Beno, Cisco, Thompson, Casspi, Greene, Whiteside)
2012-2013: $38M for 7 players (Evans, Cousins, Parker, Beno, Cisco, Casspi, Whiteside)
2013-2014: $18M for 3 players (Cousins, Parker, Whiteside)
Everybody else that we would sign to fill out the roster for now and the future would be signed under the new CBA rules where we would still have a decent advantage over most teams in cap space and would of course be smaller deals than we are used to now (by, what, maybe 30%?). We can totally survive Parker's contract if we trade for him, and things only look better if we can strongarm the Spurs into taking Beno back (or find a third team to shift Beno's deal to if Pop refuses Beno for personal reasons). I think he's worth the gamble at this point. Unless we really love a guy at #7 (somehow I don't see Fredette or Leonard leading us to the playoffs next year, but Parker, yes) or we see a better way to spend the money, I think we have to go for it.
Of course, the consensus over there seems to be that they want to send Jefferson and Parker (and #29) for #7, Casspi, Thompson, and Garcia.
Well, there are a couple of problems with that scenario. Foremost, if we're sweating over whether we can afford Parker (and in the end I think we can), there's no way we add RJ. None. Never. Second, Thompson is way too important to us to let him go in a deal like this. Casspi we expect is on the block, and I think he's quite good value.
So splitting this thing down the middle, I'd say that if it goes down, it's probably #7 and Casspi for Parker and maybe #29.
Well, there are a couple of problems with that scenario. Foremost, if we're sweating over whether we can afford Parker (and in the end I think we can), there's no way we add RJ. None. Never. Second, Thompson is way too important to us to let him go in a deal like this. Casspi we expect is on the block, and I think he's quite good value.
So splitting this thing down the middle, I'd say that if it goes down, it's probably #7 and Casspi for Parker and maybe #29.
Im not saying he'd be a short term player in Sac... what I'm saying is that he won't be long term. And right when his contract is up is when we will be gunning for the ring. Being the guy who we run our offense through, his departure would be a major blow to those aspirations. I want our future point guard to be someone who we can count on having his best years during our championship years... not someone who is on the downhill slide. Whether thats Tyreke, Brandon Knight, or someone else... i'm not sure. I know its not Parker though.