To Trade Cisco: What and why.

[Arby's Roast Beef]

Add me to the list of trading Noc instead of Cisco..Fransisco has some qualities that can't be taught. He's been here since the beginning and is willing to come off the bench. His intensity is always there and provides leadership (something we're lacking), to me he deserves to be here right now.

Plus I think Noc can be a valuable peice for a team that wants to win it all or wants to add another step to their puzzle.

Both are role players that can valuable pieces for playoff teams. I do agree that Garcia being homegrown allows for more identification with the team, and that might give him an edge in staying with us. Noc also played well in the playoffs with Chicago I believe so GMs might prefer him because of that. But both players have poorly structured contracts relative to their age and talent level, so one probably would have to go if we're going to get accelerate this rebuild.

 

[kennadog]

Well Nocioni's contract salary actually declines every year. That has to make it a little more attractive than Cisco's.

 

[TONYTOUCH]

I'm frustrated with his play sometimes and thrilled by him at other times. I would hate to see him playing against the Kings.

 

[USNAVY15]

Not sure why we get rid of our most vocal leader that has a knack for taking and making shots from all over the court. he is a finisher, and a decent defender. He is my projected starter.

 

[bloom]

Well Nocioni's contract salary actually declines every year. That has to make it a little more attractive than Cisco's.

Good point, he also seems more "mature/stable player" than Cisco and therefore it would also be easier to trade him to a winning team...but maybe that's me trying to justify trading Noc rather than Cisco..lol

 

[bajaden]

Because he's not that good of a shot blocker or defender. Which is why we'd be looking for an upgrade in those areas through a trade. At some point we're going to have to trade someone we all like, since the players we don't like have crap trade value. Simply hanging on to the core of a sub 20 win team and adding one lottery pick a year isn't going to get in done.

I'm going to disagree. I'm not in love with Cisco, but he has improved his ballhandling and also limited his mistakes in the last two years. He's presently suffering from his labeling upon entering the league. Although his talent level has probably peaked out, he's not beyond polishing a few things. I would suggest that he has more trade value around the league than most would think.

I think its a natural thing for fans to devalue a player, or players that have lost favor with them. That doesn't mean the rest of the league has, but it doesn't mean it won't try. The Kings have a decent young core now. How good they will be is yet to be determined. And that's what this year is all about. We need to see how they play together and what their strengths and weaknesses are. Once those things are known, then adjustments can be made to the roster. So I'm not opposed to waiting a bit before just trading someone to trade them.

We appear to have a logjam at the SF position, but lets wait and see just how Westphal uses his roster. But, back to the orginal subject. If I had to trade someone it would be Nocioni. I think Cisco is more versatile than Noc and also a little younger, and therefore fits the rebuild better. And by the way, Cisco is a very decent defender. He's a very good weakside shotblocker and help defender. Those kind of guys never get any credit for what they do because its not sexy enough for the average viewer to notice. As an added note, Beno is an absolutely horrible help defender, and I wanted to throw up when he talked about playing defense and the fact that he came from a team where defense came first. Talk is cheap.

 

[bajaden]

Trade him along with Kenny Thomas's expiring contract in order to sweeten the pot for another team that has a star player that theyre looking to dump.

Somehow, Star player and Dump just don't seem to fit together, unless their ready for the rocking chair. AKA Tracey McGrady. Its hard to believe that he's going to be the highest payed player in the league next year.

 

[MassachusettsKingsFan]

The more I think about Cisco, the more valuable I see him being.

Dont forget how open he is about playing from the bench. Thats important. We all remember John Salmons and how he was two completely different players depending on if he started or not.

I like Nocioni ( hate him for this team, like him as a player, person, and what he can bring to a contender ) , but im not really sure how he would handle coming off the bench. Even though I think Cisco is a much better fit starting on a team with Tyreke as the PG, I see Nocioni getting the nod because he cares about it more. I see no reason why Cisco should be traded before Noc.

 

[AriesMar27]

i would want nocioni traded but i am not opposed to trading garcia....thomas and beno to houston for mcgrady.... i dont see how anyone here could argue that it would make us worse....

 

[bajaden]

i would want nocioni traded but i am not opposed to trading garcia....thomas and beno to houston for mcgrady.... i dont see how anyone here could argue that it would make us worse....

One small tiny problem. McGrady will make $22,483,124.00 next year. Beno and Thomas combined will make $14,806,800.00 next year. That leaves a difference of $8,676,324.00. I don't think that will work under the current rules. I'm not opposed to making this deal. All that money would come off the books at the end of the season. I'm not sure why Houston would want to make the deal.

 

[AriesMar27]

One small tiny problem. McGrady will make $22,483,124.00 next year. Beno and Thomas combined will make $14,806,800.00 next year. That leaves a difference of $8,676,324.00. I don't think that will work under the current rules. I'm not opposed to making this deal. All that money would come off the books at the end of the season. I'm not sure why Houston would want to make the deal.

it would take garcia, thomas and beno to make the trade work... my bad i just checked it on realgm, garcia is a byc player so you would have to use nocioni instead i guess... which is even better.... but i doubt that the rockets would do it. though if anyone could make it work on the court it would be adelman.... he could make nocioni play well at pf... or at least serviceable...

 

[Sac.1989]

there is no way they'd do it though. Theres hardly any upside for them, they get stuck with beno and garcia who would serve as overpaid backups

 

[bajaden]

it would take garcia, thomas and beno to make the trade work... my bad i just checked it on realgm, garcia is a byc player so you would have to use nocioni instead i guess... which is even better.... but i doubt that the rockets would do it. though if anyone could make it work on the court it would be adelman.... he could make nocioni play well at pf... or at least serviceable...

I'm going to leave all the negotiating up to you. Give me a heads up when we have something in writing.

 

[AriesMar27]

I'm going to leave all the negotiating up to you. Give me a heads up when we have something in writing.

i'll do my best... i'll give them an offer that they wont refuse.... their pg options are limited and beno could be a serviceable pg with a coach that knows what they are doing. thomas is an expiring contract and nocioni is a decent player.... its that or trade martin.... martin and nocioni(plus filler omri or greene) would do it....(may, mason or ely after dec. 15) start evans at sg and sergio at pg....

sergio/beno
evans/garcia
mcgrady/greene/omri
thompson/may/brockman
hawes/ely

if tmac is healthy that team could make the playoffs and have capspace in the offseason... hell we could trade back for martin since thomas wasnt included in the deal we would have 30 million coming off the books which would be insane. basically we would trade martin for a 1 yr rental of tmac just to get rid of nocioni and then we could trade a 2nd rounder and cash to houston to get martin back in the offseason. that would be awesome....

 

[Henkel]

i'll do my best... i'll give them an offer that they wont refuse.... their pg options are limited and beno could be a serviceable pg with a coach that knows what they are doing. thomas is an expiring contract and nocioni is a decent player.... its that or trade martin.... martin and nocioni(plus filler omri or greene) would do it....(may, mason or ely after dec. 15) start evans at sg and sergio at pg....

sergio/beno
evans/garcia
mcgrady/greene/omri
thompson/may/brockman
hawes/ely

if tmac is healthy that team could make the playoffs and have capspace in the offseason... hell we could trade back for martin since thomas wasnt included in the deal we would have 30 million coming off the books which would be insane. basically we would trade martin for a 1 yr rental of tmac just to get rid of nocioni and then we could trade a 2nd rounder and cash to houston to get martin back in the offseason. that would be awesome....

This hurt me in the brain.

Seriously that is no where near a playoff team even with this mythical health Tmac you speak of. The whole convoluted trade back for Martin salary dump scenario makes no sense, but I have to give you credit for creativity.

 

[AriesMar27]

That team could make the playoffs. They wouldn't get Martin back but they could make the playoffs. Tmac took the rockets without Yao to the playoffs and had that 22 game won streak 2 years ago. Our team is much better overall than that team was without Yao. We could so make the playoffs.

 

[Henkel]

The Rockets had Yao for more then 50 games that season and a roster full of veteran players with proven talent. Their roster didn't have a lot of big names, but defensively it was outstanding. Their roster was simply better.

If you are not convinced lets do the math. take a 17 win team and take away their best scored and replace him with a over the hill star with bad knees who has not been healthy for years coming off a season in which he missed 40+ games. Martin for Tmac straight up doesnt make the Kings better. If Tmac was health maybe he would help, but the odds of that happening are slim to none.

The only other addition worth noting is Evans. He is a rookie and even with a great season he is not going to lead to a 30 win improvment. Sergio has done nothing in this league and Casspi is going to spend most of this year getting acclimated to the NBA.

To sum it all up Tmac and Evans minus Martin does not equal a 30 win improvment.

 

[AriesMar27]

To sum it all up Tmac and Evans minus Martin does not equal a 30 win improvment.

with a healthy tmac, yes it does and thats 47 wins... that could get us in the hunt for 8th seed... if thompson or hawes play well we could win a few more and break 50 wins which would get us into the playoffs....

in 2007 tmac played 71 games and averaged 24ppg 5.3 rpg 6.5 apg.... if martin put up those numbers we would all be talking about how we would be making the playoffs and that he should be an all-star.... hell id be happy with martin playing 71 games....

 

[Henkel]

Breaking news its not 2007. Even Tmac has admitted that all the injury's have slowed him down if you couldnt tell from simply watching him play. If you are counting on a healthy 2007 Tmac you are being unrealistic.

Even if he stayed health the 2009 version of Tmac is not going to win you 30 more games in my opinion. Anyways it looks like we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

 

[AriesMar27]

Breaking news its not 2007. Even Tmac has admitted that all the injury's have slowed him down if you couldnt tell from simply watching him play. If you are counting on a healthy 2007 Tmac you are being unrealistic.

Even if he stayed health the 2009 version of Tmac is not going to win you 30 more games in my opinion. Anyways it looks like we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

we probably will, i dont need to continue this and have kingsgurl881's husband and chupacabra to jumpin and make it a three on one battle royal... tmac is slower but he is still infinitely more talented than martin will ever be. not only that but we would be free of nocioni's contract thus making more room for the younger players on the team. its addition by subtraction(of nocioni).

our team is better than the 17 wins that we won last year. with a healthy roster and a competent coach we wouldve won more than 30 games last season. so trading martin and nocioni for a healthy tmac could get us to the playoffs. which is something that i dont think martin could do playing with evans. mcgrady can because we could even play evans at pg with tmac on the court without a problem.

 

[Kings4life23]

There is no way i would do that trade i think tyreke is going to be fine at the point and mesh with kmart are concern should be the starting SF position and are depth at the PF/C position hopefully someone steps up on our roster to take control of the SF position I like Omri but hes very raw and it looks like donte is headed for the PF position still very undecided with him i just sit and scratch my head because he has all the tools just to me has a very low basketball IQ he would of benifited from staying at Syracuse then noc just doesnt fit he belongs off the bench with a championship type team not with a rebuilding team .......

 

[sactownfan]

I'D TRADE GARCIA FOR A WASHING MACHINE!!!

get this joke off our team... he is SO injury prone what good is he to this team????

why couldn't we trade him while his value was as high as it was gonna get... hes a total bust in my eyes after this injury

 

[Bricklayer]

I'm thinking maybe we should try to trade him for a guy with two arms.

 

[sactownfan]

I'm thinking maybe we should try to trade him for a guy with two arms.

seriously!!! im freak'n over this guy! he's overpaid like all our avg role/bench players and hes his his limit as far as ability and its not that great...

he jacks up 3's and gets hurt.... thats not gonna get it done on any team. i just want him off this team... trade him for a future 2nd round pick thats protected through forever... or an expiring... send him outa town!

 

[Bricklayer]

seriously!!! im freak'n over this guy! he's overpaid like all our avg role/bench players and hes his his limit as far as ability and its not that great...

he jacks up 3's and gets hurt.... thats not gonna get it done on any team. i just want him off this team... trade him for a future 2nd round pick thats protected through forever... or an expiring... send him outa town!

You can't really blame a guy for having a physio ball pop on him. Dwight Howard could have got hurt if that's going to happen.

 

[Sac.1989]

now is hardly the time to throw him under the bus.

12.7 points, 3.4 rebounds and 2.3 assists in 65 games isnt bad, were goona need his ball handing and movement this season

 

[sactownfan]

Can i blame him for the injury or any of his injurys... no but.... is there an undeniable pattern here???

and if he wasn't still on this team right now non of this would matter... hes overrated and over paid

 

[bajaden]

Can i blame him for the injury or any of his injurys... no but.... is there an undeniable pattern here???

and if he wasn't still on this team right now non of this would matter... hes overrated and over paid

Well I don't think anyone on this fourm overrates him. Whether he's overpaid is up for debate. I'm not going to waste my time looking up the salaries of similar players for comparison. Frankly I think he probably falls close to what the going rate is. He's a decent, to at times, good backup player.

He does seem to have a black cloud hanging over his head though. I mean how many people have had physio ball blow up on them. What are the odds of jumping up to dislodge a ball for the refs and coming down on a teammates foot. You certainly can't blame him for any of his accidents. I mean he didn't go riding a motorcycle and crash. He didn't cut his thumb off in his kitchen with one of his own knives.

Now if you don't like his game, then fine. Be critical all you want of how he plays. But don't hammer him for something he had no control over.By the way, did anyone see Greene around that ball before Cisco started using it?

 

[Sac.1989]

and if he wasn't still on this team right now non of this would matter

of course it wouldnt but he is and even though we might have overcommpensated when we resigned him he is as dedicated as anyone on this team and a valued TEAM player

 

[Prince_XY]

seriously!!! im freak'n over this guy! he's overpaid like all our avg role/bench players and hes his his limit as far as ability and its not that great...

he jacks up 3's and gets hurt.... thats not gonna get it done on any team. i just want him off this team... trade him for a future 2nd round pick thats protected through forever... or an expiring... send him outa town!

I agree 100%.

I just don't know why some of us seem to be too high on him, as if he is still part of the future of this Kings team. Cisco already reached his ceiling and there is nothing special about him upto now. A 6th man player at best who is consistent in being inconsistent in his plays. It is time to try and give more playing time to some other player in this team not named Cisco.