To Tank or not to Tank...what would you want?
- Thread starter mdme
- Start date
Never give up, never surrender! 
No tanks, thanks.
I remember the bad old days. Lottery picks year after year. Surely THIS No. 7 pick will get us over the top ... not. Been there, done that.
Yeah, it's a good draft on paper. But playing to get an impact player in the draft is an extreme gamble; what are the odds of any one team winning the lottery, or even a top-three pick? There have been many drafts where someone picked in the teens or even the second round have been as good in the long run as the top pick. Oden's a can't-miss, right? Portland thought Sam Bowie was a can't-miss. The Kings thought Pervis Ellison was a can't-miss. The Celtics thought Len Bias was a can't-miss.
Maybe not a fair comparison, but stuff happens.
Better, if the Kings are in fact a do-over at this stage, to see what combination of proven commodities and draft picks/young players you can get for Artest, Miller and Bibby than to pin all hopes on getting a superstar in the draft.
We all know what the Kings' problems are. The fact they don't have a shot-blocker exposes Bibby's inability to stop penetration, and vice-versa. The high-powered offense that used to overcome the defensive liabilities is in flux.
Can you solve the defensive issues through the draft? Maybe, but then again, Joaquin Noah could turn out to be Pervis Ellison Lite.
No tanks, thanks.
I remember the bad old days. Lottery picks year after year. Surely THIS No. 7 pick will get us over the top ... not. Been there, done that.
Yeah, it's a good draft on paper. But playing to get an impact player in the draft is an extreme gamble; what are the odds of any one team winning the lottery, or even a top-three pick? There have been many drafts where someone picked in the teens or even the second round have been as good in the long run as the top pick. Oden's a can't-miss, right? Portland thought Sam Bowie was a can't-miss. The Kings thought Pervis Ellison was a can't-miss. The Celtics thought Len Bias was a can't-miss.
Maybe not a fair comparison, but stuff happens.
Better, if the Kings are in fact a do-over at this stage, to see what combination of proven commodities and draft picks/young players you can get for Artest, Miller and Bibby than to pin all hopes on getting a superstar in the draft.
We all know what the Kings' problems are. The fact they don't have a shot-blocker exposes Bibby's inability to stop penetration, and vice-versa. The high-powered offense that used to overcome the defensive liabilities is in flux.
Can you solve the defensive issues through the draft? Maybe, but then again, Joaquin Noah could turn out to be Pervis Ellison Lite.
GUYS!!!! No disrepect but Gray and Noah are disasters waiting to happen. I would rather use our pick on one of the very athletic SF's or that asian boy or that 7'3 from africa if he enters the draft then those two guys. Gray has good offensive skills but offers us nothing Brad offers now. Good offensive game no Defense and could not jump over a book to save his life. Noah is just undersized and has no real offensive talent to speak of those two picks will be disasters if i am wrong i will eat crow all day long.
I finally voted "yes." And I agree entirely with the points made by Kingsgurl.
I wish I could find Bricklayer's definition of "tank" in relation to what we're talking about because it is comprehensive and lays it all out there.
It's not just about the draft. It's about the draft in connection with trading veterans for youth and making a commitment to the long haul.
I think we're really on the same page, tdofd, but just expressing it differently. If Brick reads this and knows what I'm referring to, maybe he'll provide a link...
I wish I could find Bricklayer's definition of "tank" in relation to what we're talking about because it is comprehensive and lays it all out there.
It's not just about the draft. It's about the draft in connection with trading veterans for youth and making a commitment to the long haul.
I think we're really on the same page, tdofd, but just expressing it differently. If Brick reads this and knows what I'm referring to, maybe he'll provide a link...
KingsGurl is completly correct it is not just done in the draft. The way i see it we need to loose big time and make sure to lose to the teams with worse records then us. We need to get luck and land a top 3 pick. The players that will go in these picks will be the next superstars in the league. will be 1. Oden 2. Wright 3. Durant. Pick 2 and 3 could possibly swap depending on what the team needs. If we land a top 3 pick were set. The move to get this bad is to get rid of bibby, miller, and Artest. I personally thing Artest is crazy and we need to trade him asap. If he had a good head on his shoulders and knew how to play team ball he would be a def keeper. With bibby and miller gone we trully suck. We wont be able to score to save our lifes. We trade these guys for cap space or picks in the draft. We pick up our stud in the top 3 this year suck next year and get a top 3 pick again. Now its time for our big time PG becuase there are two of them next year> now we have batman and robin. The cap space can even get us our robin if we dont manage to pick him up. Not that easy but possible guess we will see
Never EVER lose on purpose.
It's a poison pill that infects the entire team. Any player you have left will never play right for you again. It's dispiriting not only to fans, but to players and it can put you on a spiral that will destroy a franchise for decades.
You play all out until you are numerically eliminated. Then and only then do you play the kids and "rest" the veterans.
I'm shocked people would actually call for any team to ever lose on purpose.
It's a poison pill that infects the entire team. Any player you have left will never play right for you again. It's dispiriting not only to fans, but to players and it can put you on a spiral that will destroy a franchise for decades.
You play all out until you are numerically eliminated. Then and only then do you play the kids and "rest" the veterans.
I'm shocked people would actually call for any team to ever lose on purpose.
Well, I for one, am not calling for them to LOSE on purpose, rather to change the collective focus (management) toward developing the new/young guys. As has been pointed out, the losing is taking care of itself. I expect the team (players) to continue (or, in some cases, start) to play hard and to try to win.
Found it:
http://www.kingsfans.com/forums/showpost.php?p=416490&postcount=33
THAT is what I, at least, am talking about...
http://www.kingsfans.com/forums/showpost.php?p=416490&postcount=33
THAT is what I, at least, am talking about...
Risky for what? This team is not a team. It's a group of players with no identity, no real sense of camaraderie and no real chance of finding either in sufficient quantity to make any real noise in the playoffs.
I love this team. Have forever. BUT I do not want to see a first-round-and-out playoff appearance. I would feel much more comfortable watching a new team come together and form an identity, such as what happened last time, than continue to see the players, coaches, and everyone else struggling as they try one more heroic but failing effort to find the pulse.
And the "Las Vegas Kings" comment is just utterly and completely without merit or basis in fact. All most fans want is to know what's happening. Bringing up the threat of the team moving is something people seem to do every time they want to emphasize the risk/importance of something they've said.
I love this team. Have forever. BUT I do not want to see a first-round-and-out playoff appearance. I would feel much more comfortable watching a new team come together and form an identity, such as what happened last time, than continue to see the players, coaches, and everyone else struggling as they try one more heroic but failing effort to find the pulse.
And the "Las Vegas Kings" comment is just utterly and completely without merit or basis in fact. All most fans want is to know what's happening. Bringing up the threat of the team moving is something people seem to do every time they want to emphasize the risk/importance of something they've said.
You don't tank no matter what!!!
Of course you do...a tactical retreat is always part of the arseanl if you're smart.
Or to quote the great philosopher: "you gotta know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em".
Or to quote the great philosopher: "you gotta know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em".
"Know when to walk away and know when to run..."
Or, to use medical terms:
"Know when to quit the CPR and pronounce the patient dead."
...
Hey, this is kinda fun.
Let me try to clarify my feelings:
Before committing to a youth movement -- whether it involves giving the bulk of playing time to Garcia, Douby, Williams, etc, OR whether it involves trading our "stars" for unproven players and/or draft picks -- I would exhaust all avenues to rebuild on the fly with established players.
Many teams that have made the commitment to do a total rebuild -- or have been forced to do so because of unforseen circumstances -- have found that that it's very challenging to climb back to the top. Look 80 miles down the road, for starters. There's no guarantee that even a series of lottery picks will solve a team's problems. There's no guarantee that free agents -- especially in a small market -- will want your cap room if you stink.
For all the talk about the potential of this year's college crop, I'd feel much better about the Kings' short- and long-term prospects if I woke up tomorrow and found out that they'd traded (and I'm just using these names as an example, not trying to make up a rumor) for Jermaine O'Neal and David Lee.
Before committing to a youth movement -- whether it involves giving the bulk of playing time to Garcia, Douby, Williams, etc, OR whether it involves trading our "stars" for unproven players and/or draft picks -- I would exhaust all avenues to rebuild on the fly with established players.
Many teams that have made the commitment to do a total rebuild -- or have been forced to do so because of unforseen circumstances -- have found that that it's very challenging to climb back to the top. Look 80 miles down the road, for starters. There's no guarantee that even a series of lottery picks will solve a team's problems. There's no guarantee that free agents -- especially in a small market -- will want your cap room if you stink.
For all the talk about the potential of this year's college crop, I'd feel much better about the Kings' short- and long-term prospects if I woke up tomorrow and found out that they'd traded (and I'm just using these names as an example, not trying to make up a rumor) for Jermaine O'Neal and David Lee.
I've watched us try and "rebuild on the fly" and it's given me ulcers and more sleepless nights than I care to admit.
The identity of the Sacramento Kings left on Feb. 23, 2005 and hasn't been really seen since. Yes, there have been glimmers but they're nothing more than deja vu memories, and false ones at that.
At some point, just like with a beloved family pet who is dying, you have to be willing to pull the plug. I firmly believe the time has come. I love this team, but watching them struggle night after night and come so close is agonizing. They don't like it either, you know.
The identity of the Sacramento Kings left on Feb. 23, 2005 and hasn't been really seen since. Yes, there have been glimmers but they're nothing more than deja vu memories, and false ones at that.
At some point, just like with a beloved family pet who is dying, you have to be willing to pull the plug. I firmly believe the time has come. I love this team, but watching them struggle night after night and come so close is agonizing. They don't like it either, you know.
But those trades wont happen. Who do we possibbly have that is valuable enough to offer for JO? Brad? Bibby? Artest? Shoot to get that guy we would have to send all the guys i hust mentioned. And our team would consisit of JO. Guy is good but he by himself is certainly not taking us to the promise land.