Tim Donaghy on 60 minutes
- Thread starter reid1boys
- Start date
Entity
Hall of Famer
I know this isnt Kings specific, but thought some of you might be interested.
Maybe he'll come out to tell us the Kings Lakers was fixed
We don't need HIM to tell us that. If he does maybe then he will roll over and die.
GeorgeofSacramento
Bench
Watching this now. Talk about a scandal!
So now the Mob had a vested interest in the NBA games and the League wanted to make up things to Kobe?
So now the Mob had a vested interest in the NBA games and the League wanted to make up things to Kobe?
bibbinator
Bench
The interview is embedded here.
http://www.cbssports.com/nba/story/12624836/disgraced-former-ref-donaghy-details-scam-on-60-minutes
http://www.cbssports.com/nba/story/12624836/disgraced-former-ref-donaghy-details-scam-on-60-minutes
L
LWP777
Guest
I think the biggest mistake he ever made was ratting on the mob and getting 1 year in prison instead of 5 years. Now the rest of his life he's going to fear for his life. I would have served the 5 years so that I could at least have the rest of my life to live without worrying.
After watching the interview, I'm more convinced he's a pathetic human being. He actually wants people to believe he was an honorable person, who never called fouls or ignored fouls but just bet on games without influencing their outcome. And he points to a Spurs game where he threw out Popovich as indication that he was honorable, since he had bet on the Spurs to win and they lost without Pop.
He brags about how he could figure out who was going to win because of his insider knowledge and vast expertise, wanting to convince all of us he didn't cheat, he just gambled. Balder and dash. He's a slimeball who sees himself as some classic tragic figure, misunderstood and flawed.
He brags about how he could figure out who was going to win because of his insider knowledge and vast expertise, wanting to convince all of us he didn't cheat, he just gambled. Balder and dash. He's a slimeball who sees himself as some classic tragic figure, misunderstood and flawed.
I think you're completely off here.
He doesn't see himself as tragic. I don't see that anywhere in the interview. The only slightest hint is saying he had a gambling problem. He takes responsibility for doing the wrong thing. He is putting his life on the line to say these things by making himself an enemy of the mafia. I don't see how you can discredit him for that.
If the FBI and even the NBA can't discredit his claim he didn't fix games, just merely used insider info to win bets, then one would have to lend some credence to the claim. And if that claim is working at an 80% clip then that shows a reliable bias. I find it humorous Mike Mathis is appalled that Donaghy bet on games using insider info, but not that ref bias was figuring into the outcome of games. Apparently it is worse to betray the brotherhood than to confiscate your reliability as an official with bias. I guess the mafia mentality extends beyond the mob here.
Notice the term criminal in place of the term wrong, questionable or unethical.
JoMama
Bench
The guy had an out of control gambling problem. I totally believe his comments about NBA refs and their personal biases against players, teams, GMs and owners. Game Six was a fix for the big market Lakers. And we all know Kobe and LeBron get more than their fair share of calls. The NBA needs to address this now.
To those who pooh-pooh his claims, you need to remember what Jose Canseco was saying years ago about MLB and how most of the big stuff was actually true.
To those who pooh-pooh his claims, you need to remember what Jose Canseco was saying years ago about MLB and how most of the big stuff was actually true.
beb0p
Starter
I don't need Donaghy to tell me that star players get treated differently by the refs, that some refs will purposely keep the score close, some refs dislike certain players, some refs dislike certain teams, that big markets teams are preferred over small market ones in the final, or that bias exists in the officiating.
I think anyone who has ever watched NBA games for extended period of time should notices those things. The only question I have is whether the top of the food chain (Stern) is in on it or is he just an approving bystander.
I think anyone who has ever watched NBA games for extended period of time should notices those things. The only question I have is whether the top of the food chain (Stern) is in on it or is he just an approving bystander.
bibbinator
Bench
Donaghy did wrong, but the fact that he was able to predict game outcomes based on the internal NBA rule advisory documents points to a NBA problem that cannot be denied.
So the NBA doesn't say "make sure the Lakers win" they say "call fouls when this and that happen to Kobe." It appears in application that there is no difference, Donaghy showed this, but it gives the NBA plausible deniability.
Personally, I found the Kings-Suns game the other night painfully suspicious. They called an awful lot of early fouls on key Kings players. The difference in foul counts wasn't glaring at the end of the game, but early fouls are more costly to a player than late fouls.
So the NBA doesn't say "make sure the Lakers win" they say "call fouls when this and that happen to Kobe." It appears in application that there is no difference, Donaghy showed this, but it gives the NBA plausible deniability.
Personally, I found the Kings-Suns game the other night painfully suspicious. They called an awful lot of early fouls on key Kings players. The difference in foul counts wasn't glaring at the end of the game, but early fouls are more costly to a player than late fouls.
piksi
Hall of Famer
I believe more what he says than what eny other NBA spokesman, comissionar etc say. While he is convicted criminal they are much bigger criminals that are not convicted yet. Sooner or later it will become official what we already know for a long time. Kings were robbed of the NBA championship to boost raitings, sales, promotion hence money in the pocket of Mr. Stern and his puppets. There had to be game 7 at all cost and there was.
L
LWP777
Guest
The best example of biases in NBA officiating that I can ever remember was when they NBA locked out the officials in 1995. These officials worked a lot of regular season games (unlike this year) and there were some glaring differences. The Kings were a terrible team and franchise at that time. They had never had a winning season while in Sacramento and therefore received zero respect from NBA officials. But the funny thing was, I can clearly remember seeing the Kings get much better treatment from the replacement officials. It was obvious that the replacement guys didn't have an "agenda" but instead they were only interested in getting the play right. The problem was that nobody had any respect for them so even when they got plays right all hell would break out because they didn't know how to control players and coaches and that's ultimately what got the regular NBA refs back quicker. This went on consistenly until the NBA refs returned and then the Kings went back to being on the short end of the stick in getting calls.
Basketball officiating is extremely subjective. There are so many "gray area" plays that can be called one way or another. One official might have a no call on one play while the other may call a foul. You could watch the replay 100 times and probably have a strong argument for EACH official. So when you're a crappy team, it's easy for referees to side with the stronger team. I think this is where Donaghy comes from. The NBA needs to do something to take these personal biases out of the game.
Basketball officiating is extremely subjective. There are so many "gray area" plays that can be called one way or another. One official might have a no call on one play while the other may call a foul. You could watch the replay 100 times and probably have a strong argument for EACH official. So when you're a crappy team, it's easy for referees to side with the stronger team. I think this is where Donaghy comes from. The NBA needs to do something to take these personal biases out of the game.
bibbinator
Bench
It can be done. FIBA manages it, so does college basketball.
I routinely meet sports fans who think the NBA is a joke because of the officiating problem.
I routinely meet sports fans who think the NBA is a joke because of the officiating problem.
acisking
Bench
I've heard this Canseco reference and how it means that Donaghy was right. This is an enormous logical fallacy. Just because one time a guy came out and make accusations that later proved to be true (in another sport no less), doesn't mean that another guy who comes out and makes accusations (that have so far been unsubstantiated) will turn out to be correct. How credible is a guy who bet on games anyway?
But I think the point of the comparison is that Jose Canseco was already a walking punchline at the time his first book came out and a lot of people dismissed it because they didn't want to believe him. Canseco was the posterchild for steroid abuse in the 80s and was largely shunned by MLB because of it. Only now do we see why. He's like the black eye that wouldn't go away. You're right that doesn't imply Donaghy is telling the truth -- but it does suggest that we shouldn't be too hasty about discrediting him without knowing the full truth.
kennadog
Dog On It!
Canseco was proved later by corroborating evidence. Just becasue it has been proved that Canseco was right, is not proof of anything regarding what Donaghy says. Donaghy may be telling the truth and nothing but the truth, but there still needs to be corroborating evidence, besides his statement. He may or may not be right, but I need more to be convinced.
I don't think anyone is arguing that Canseco's situation "means that Donaghy was right". I think people are careful not to dismiss Donaghy without giving his claims proper consideration, because they learned a lessen from doing just that with Canseco.
As to whether he's credible or not, he's most certainly not. He's a liar and a cheat, and he did a federal bid because of it. That doesn't mean that every word that comes out of his mouth should be dismissed out of hand. I happen to think it would be irresponsible to do so.
vikinginferno
Starter
It was glaring in the Heat game also. Early there were a ton of "questionable" calls, but late in the game as the Kings were down by a very large amount of points, there seemed, to me at least, to be make-up foul calls and that is not right either.
Gargamel
Starter
True. You can watch a game from 25 yrs ago and hear players, coaches, and commentators talking about mistreatment by refs, about star calls, etc. He's not exactly breaking anything new. A lot of coaches thought Auerbach had refs on the payroll in back the late 50s -- check all the crucial close games they won.
bibbinator
Bench
And they wonder why the NBA is struggling.
If they're going to tilt the games they might as well go full WWE and give us a story line and over the top characters.
If they're going to tilt the games they might as well go full WWE and give us a story line and over the top characters.
acisking
Bench
Not even Donaghy alleged that it was the top nba brass who gave him his marching orders or that the league was rigged somehow. Only that different refs had biases and even vendettas against certain players/coaches...biases that helped him to gamble on their games successfully.
bibbinator
Bench
And also that the NBA sent out memos, video memos, explaining how they wanted games officiated. These memos tipped Donaghy off as to how the games would come out.
If the NBA sends out officiating memos that, in essence, say Kobe is getting fouled too much, making it impossible for a team to defend against him, it is almost the same as saying "We'd like the Lakers to win this one."
And surely, the NBA could have known about the refs and their vendettas. When the errors and mistakes all seem to roll in the same direction you have to begin to question if they were really errors and mistakes at all.
Trueblood
Bench
The thing that irks me is the hypocrisy from the public and media when it comes to preferential treatment of stars.
How often do we hear the announcers say "that's terrible to foul him out. The fans don't pay their hard earned money to watch xyz sit on the bench"?
How often do we hear fans echo the same sentiment?
But then, when the officials do what the fans and media are clamoring for, you get all these accusations of favoritism and game fixing. What should they do?
If it were up to me, I'd just tell them to call the game like it's supposed to be called, regardless of who is a star and who isn't.
How often do we hear the announcers say "that's terrible to foul him out. The fans don't pay their hard earned money to watch xyz sit on the bench"?
How often do we hear fans echo the same sentiment?
But then, when the officials do what the fans and media are clamoring for, you get all these accusations of favoritism and game fixing. What should they do?
If it were up to me, I'd just tell them to call the game like it's supposed to be called, regardless of who is a star and who isn't.
I actually don't hear fans say "its terrible they fouled supertar_z out." I hear they complain when their team's player fouls out, but rarely a superstar player not having to do with their team.
This is more proliferated by the media who profit off the system as much as the NBA does.
This is more proliferated by the media who profit off the system as much as the NBA does.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
Last night Tim Donaghy was on Fox news with Gretta. He made some big accusations. He said that the league instructs the Ref's to basicly take it easy on the big stars in the league. That the people pay money to see them play. Gretta really went after this point asking to what extent this was done and who gave the instructions. He implicated Stu Jackson and all others below him. He said that if a star like a Jordan or a Shaq picked up a early foul in the first quarter, they would then either ignore any other fouls, or if possible give the foul to another player.
He said on borderline calls the foul always went on the lesser player. For instance if Jordan made a move to the basket and he already had a foul on him and he charged into another player, they would probably call a blocking foul on the other player. He said this was common practice and that every ref in the league knows it. Of course the league calls him a liar, but what else would they say.
To my mind the league has a credibility problem. When I watched the Spurs game the other night, I watched Tim Ducan set illegal screen after illegal screen right in front of the ref's and not get called one time. No big deal. I see it all the time. I watched Parker drive off a screen set by Duncan right at Beno who did a nice job of staying in front of him. As he tried to stop he traveled. Obvious to me the ref's and everyone in the arena. Instead they called a blocking foul on Beno. I'm not complaining about the loss. I'm simply saying that its this sort of officiating that validates what Donaghy is saying. And if its true, then it stinks to high heaven.
He said on borderline calls the foul always went on the lesser player. For instance if Jordan made a move to the basket and he already had a foul on him and he charged into another player, they would probably call a blocking foul on the other player. He said this was common practice and that every ref in the league knows it. Of course the league calls him a liar, but what else would they say.
To my mind the league has a credibility problem. When I watched the Spurs game the other night, I watched Tim Ducan set illegal screen after illegal screen right in front of the ref's and not get called one time. No big deal. I see it all the time. I watched Parker drive off a screen set by Duncan right at Beno who did a nice job of staying in front of him. As he tried to stop he traveled. Obvious to me the ref's and everyone in the arena. Instead they called a blocking foul on Beno. I'm not complaining about the loss. I'm simply saying that its this sort of officiating that validates what Donaghy is saying. And if its true, then it stinks to high heaven.
Entity
Hall of Famer
Bingo.
John Galt
Starter
Just does not surprise me one bit or even really disappoint me that much. I sort of expect it. Sports is show biz. The cash register rings up when people buy tickets, or commerical time - to watch superstars and big market teams.
I read a book by a baseball umpire a long time ago where in so many words he said "if Rod Carew doesn't swing at it, it is a ball". Not a direct quote but that was the jist. Also told stories of umpires hazing rookies like calling a pitch in the dirt a strike... to test the rookie and see if he would throw a fit. If the rookie took it in stride, he earned respect. So I got over being surprised at the antics of pro sports officials.
Star calls, and calls that favor the premium marquee team - have always been part of the game as far as I could tell. It is not going to change.
I'd like to see the stats on the Kings record and fouls with the replacement refs vs. the real refs that year. Might be some very interesting stuff to look at.
Variant
Starter
My parents got me Tim Donaghy's book for Christmas. Apparently the "publisher" (as it is now) just prints them as orders come in until some sort of a distribution deal can be reached I guess.
Interesting read so far... and whatever you think of his accusations, his success rate with his picks was pretty impressive..........
Apparently the "publisher" (as it is now) just prints them as orders come in until some sort of a distribution deal can be reached I guess.Interesting read so far... and whatever you think of his accusations, his success rate with his picks was pretty impressive..........
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