This is how to fix the team (Though you may not like it)

[Nikolizzle]

Hey all, i'm new to the forum. Second post, actually. I actually just wanted to share my thoughts on how to fix the Kings for the future.

It's not going to be most popular idea, but it's one that I think is the right one moving forward. I'm not sure how much of this has been said already, like I said, i'm new.
Anyway, here we go!

First thing: Amnesty Salmons. Salmons, I believe, earned his money last year. He was decent for most of the season, and provided a good experienced voice. But I don't think he's worth it for next season, especially since he's not a small forward - He's a shooting guard playing the role. He's taking up too much cap space for someone who's not a starting 5 caliber player at that position.

Second: Thomas to the bench. He's a fantastic energy guy, Nate Robinson like. But he's not capable of leading the entire team for the year at the point. Let him be that injection of grit and energy when they need him.

Thirdly, Jimmer Fredette and Tyreke to be the starting backcourt. They made the choice to draft Jimmer, now it's time to turn the team over to him (Even though he probably hasn't shown enough). They can then run the backcourt similarly to Milwaukee did with Jennings/Ellis. From the rumours, Ellis may even be there to fill that role if Tyreke fails to return! But it's Jimmer's time. Let him start at Point every game, and live with the consequences. It's the right thing to do. He has a massive ceiling, now he needs the backing of the staff and fans to reach it. If they don't do that, then he has to be traded.

Then, let Cousins and Thompson be THEMSELVES. Cousins is a beast, so let him be! If he wants to snap and beat people's faces in, let him do it. Make the opposition scared of what he might do, rather than trying to put a leash on him. Every great team needs someone who intimidates, not just through skills, but through fear. Cousins is that guy. He's already getting unfairly discriminated by a LOT of refs, so if they're going to call him for Techs, make sure they earn them. Thompson is someone that could be included in a trade package, if that's what people want - I'd be more than happy to start Patterson with Hayes as backup off the bench.

Give Cole Aldrich more court time. Let's not forget, he was only drafted in 2010, at pick 11 no less - So he has the talent. Big men always take longer to develop in any sport, and he took some MASSIVE strides last year. If he continues to impress like that, he could become starting Center and move Cousins to PF.

Lastly, Fill a need. In the offseason, draft and/or trade for a small forward. We haven't had a good one since Peja, and the SF is now one of the premium positions in the league. Andre Iguodala is going on to the market; not to mention, he'd provide a marquee player name and the sort of defense that are sorely missing. Failing someone like that, maybe try to trade up in the draft for an Otto Porter, Anthony Bennett, or take a chance on Shabazz Muhammad. If they don't plan on letting Jimmer be the #1 PG, then they should be trading him to get an established SF (Maybe to Chicago for Deng, obviously with other pieces) and draft at Trey Burke if he's available, or Carter-Williams as a facilitator for the rest of the side.

Paul Pierce is definitely on the block as well, so my suggested trade to the Celtics would be Pierce for Jason Thompson and Marcus Thornton. That'd allow Patrick Patterson to be a starter, as i'm a big fan of his. Boston have a massive need for a SG that can damage from outside, which is Thornton all over. Thompson is also an attractive player to partner alongside Garnett.

So here is how i'd have the team, at full strength, assuming salary cap restrictions are met, and the draft goes our way:
PG: J. Fredette
SG: T. Evans
SF: A. Iguodala/P. Pierce
PF: J. Thompson/P. Patterson
C: D. Cousins

6th Man: I. Thomas

Rest of Bench:
2014 Rookie Pick
M. Thornton
C. Hayes
P. Patterson
C. Aldrich

And the rest of the team are expendable. Actually, even Thornton is a bit dead-weight, but he is a clutch scorer. He could be traded if anyone has a need.

It's not a safe option, but it's what I think would help the team grow. It's a risk that probably will lose a few games early, but if they want to be a contender, then I personally think it's the right move.

 

[Darth Divac]

No. Jimmer is not a starter in any kind of league.

 

[Bricklayer]

Other than the Jimmer thing, which is just not in the cards at this point, the rest of it is headed in the right vein. We need: a defensive rim protector, a starting SF, prefereably defensive minded, a "passive" PG who is smart and can shoot, and then to clear out some of the gunners.

 

[Darth Divac]

Gortat.

 

[Jordan Goins]

First off welcome to the board. Second, I like where you are going, but I agree with the 2 above, Jimmer is not a starter yet. He can get there, but he's not there yet. The only way I.T. can come off the bench is if we get a better PG.

 

[Nikolizzle]

Thankyou for the kind welcome!

My exact point is that Jimmer isn't ready, that's obvious. But put him in there, and let the chips fall where they may. It might make the Kings lose, but who cares? They lose anyway! He's got the highest ceiling of any guard on our roster, with the exception of Evans.

If you're really worried about Jimmer at the point, move Tyreke back to the point and play Jimmer as the starting SG. Either way, it's time to give him a baptism of fire. They've babied him for long enough now.

 

[Padrino]

jimmer's just not there, people. undersized for SG. poor ballhandler for PG. defensively weak. he's a bench player, at this point, and a deep bench player, at that. a guard of his caliber can potentially graduate to the starting lineup, but you don't just throw him out there and expect him to perform at a level beyond his capability. if we want to experiment in-house, a pairing of toney douglas and tyreke evans in the starting back court is infinitely more compelling, particularly on the defensive end...

 

[Nikolizzle]

Yep, you're 100% correct. I know all of that, i'm just choosing to ignore it.

Jimmer, at this point, is either going to be a star, or be deadweight. I'm well aware of his downfalls, but his time to 'graduate' is over.

Either start him, and be prepared to take losses; or trade him. You said you don't "just throw him out there and expect him to perform at a level beyond his capability".

Usually, i'd agree. But in this case, yes, you do.

 

[Padrino]

Yep, you're 100% correct. I know all of that, i'm just choosing to ignore it.

Jimmer, at this point, is either going to be a star, or be deadweight. I'm well aware of his downfalls, but his time to 'graduate' is over.

Either start him, and be prepared to take losses; or trade him.

then trade him. if those are the theoretical options, then oooohhh dear god, please trade him. the losses simply are not worth it. i mean, seriously? gonna put progress in the win/loss column on the line for jimmer effing fredette? a 10th pick who was taken far too early in the draft?!



and for the record, i mightily disagree with your analysis. jimmer has utility as an off-the-ball shooter within a potential reserve role. if he can improve his ballhandling skills and his defense, he has a chance to become jj redick lite. regardless, i'd ship him off in a heartbeat as part of a package deal for just about any player who plays a lick of defense...

 

[Nikolizzle]

then trade him. if those are the theoretical options, then oooohhh dear god, please trade him. the losses simply are not worth it. i mean, seriously? gonna put progress in the win/loss column on the line for jimmer effing fredette? a 10th pick who was taken far too early in the draft?!

Fair enough. I can understand your position, like I said in the title, not everyone is going to like it.

But yes. That is exactly what I would do. You can think i'm wrong, most people would. I'm just stating my opinion of what moves I would make to improve the team.

But for the record "The losses simply are not worth it"? Maybe you haven't noticed, but it doesn't matter WHO plays at the point - Douglas, Thomas, Evans - We're losing anyway. We are a terrible team.

I'm just in favour of giving the guy with the highest ceiling and the biggest star potential the ball and seeing what happens.

 

[bajaden]

Fair enough. I can understand your position, like I said in the title, not everyone is going to like it.

But yes. That is exactly what I would do. You can think i'm wrong, most people would. I'm just stating my opinion of what moves I would make to improve the team.

But for the record "The losses simply are not worth it"? Maybe you haven't noticed, but it doesn't matter WHO plays at the point - Douglas, Thomas, Evans - We're losing anyway. We are a terrible team.

I'm just in favour of giving the guy with the highest ceiling and the biggest star potential the ball and seeing what happens.

I'm a Jimmer fan! I followed him every year at BYU. Personally, I don't think he's gotten a fair shake, but then I don't think anyone on the team that we've drafted has gotten a fair shake. I believe that mostly because of the poor coaching thats taken place. Jimmer can shoot the ball, and he's a decent athlete, so there's no reason he can't play decent team defense. Its easy to throw darts that the likely target in Jimmer on defense. You can say he can't stay in front of his man, or fight through screens, but then neither can Thomas. Jimmer at least chases his man when he gets beat, Thomas for the most part doesn't. I also think that Jimmer has better PG instincts than Thomas, but on this team, with the way its being coached, it doesn't really matter much.

Jimmer's biggest problem is his ballhandling! He has improved, but he still has a way to go. He's also improved in being able to create off the dribble, but again, he has a way to go. My opinion is to hire a good coach. Let Jimmer do his offseason work, come to camp, and let the new coach decide where and how he fits, or if he does indeed fit on this team. I watched Jimmer improve every year at BYU, so I have no doubt he'll dedicate himself to taking it up another notch. Whether thats enough, well who knows? Other than that, I like most of what you suggested, and welcome.

 

[jalfa]

Fair enough. I can understand your position, like I said in the title, not everyone is going to like it.

But yes. That is exactly what I would do. You can think i'm wrong, most people would. I'm just stating my opinion of what moves I would make to improve the team.

But for the record "The losses simply are not worth it"? Maybe you haven't noticed, but it doesn't matter WHO plays at the point - Douglas, Thomas, Evans - We're losing anyway. We are a terrible team.

I'm just in favour of giving the guy with the highest ceiling and the biggest star potential the ball and seeing what happens.

that's a better argument for upgrading our talent at the position than saying "screw it, let's just roll with what we have and if we tank another season, then so be it!". if you want to completely start over, meaning you ship out everything of significant value acquire picks and pray that you can somehow land a potential franchise player in next year's class, okay, it's an option. not necessarily one I'd favour, mostly because I think this team with some roster fixes and a better coach can be a playoff team. however, if you think we're going to lose anyway, don't acquire a guy like Iggy and don't think that Cuz or Tyreke are going to want to be a part of that team going forward.

also, this:

Then, let Cousins and Thompson be THEMSELVES. Cousins is a beast, so let him be! If he wants to snap and beat people's faces in, let him do it. Make the opposition scared of what he might do, rather than trying to put a leash on him. Every great team needs someone who intimidates, not just through skills, but through fear. Cousins is that guy. He's already getting unfairly discriminated by a LOT of refs, so if they're going to call him for Techs, make sure they earn them. Thompson is someone that could be included in a trade package, if that's what people want - I'd be more than happy to start Patterson with Hayes as backup off the bench.

is a recipe for disaster.

 

[Uncia03]

Hey all, i'm new to the forum. Second post, actually. I actually just wanted to share my thoughts on how to fix the Kings for the future.


Paul Pierce is definitely on the block as well, so my suggested trade to the Celtics would be Pierce for Jason Thompson and Marcus Thornton. That'd allow Patrick Patterson to be a starter, as i'm a big fan of his. Boston have a massive need for a SG that can damage from outside, which is Thornton all over. Thompson is also an attractive player to partner alongside Garnett.

From what I hear, Garnett might retire, but would consider playing if it was along-side Pierce.

I would seriously consider any deal that brought us both Pierce and Garnett while leaving us both Cousins and Tyreke. Even if it was only for a year...I think with a good coach bringing in those two Veterans would tremendously help both Tyreke and Cousins in both their game, but more importantly their approach and preparation to the game.

Anyway, I like most of what you are suggesting. I do agree with most of the other posters that Jimmer just isn't ready at the moment to be a heavy minute starter. I think that he could eventually become a very valuable member of a team running a system-intensive half-court offense. (Which is what I want for both Cousins & Tyreke)
At the same time, I would trade him in a heartbeat if it brought back a quality player to compliment Cousins and Tyreke.

 

[KingsCitizen]

I'm a Jimmer fan! I followed him every year at BYU. Personally, I don't think he's gotten a fair shake, but then I don't think anyone on the team that we've drafted has gotten a fair shake. I believe that mostly because of the poor coaching thats taken place. Jimmer can shoot the ball, and he's a decent athlete, so there's no reason he can't play decent team defense. Its easy to throw darts that the likely target in Jimmer on defense. You can say he can't stay in front of his man, or fight through screens, but then neither can Thomas. Jimmer at least chases his man when he gets beat, Thomas for the most part doesn't. I also think that Jimmer has better PG instincts than Thomas, but on this team, with the way its being coached, it doesn't really matter much.

Jimmer's biggest problem is his ballhandling! He has improved, but he still has a way to go. He's also improved in being able to create off the dribble, but again, he has a way to go. My opinion is to hire a good coach. Let Jimmer do his offseason work, come to camp, and let the new coach decide where and how he fits, or if he does indeed fit on this team. I watched Jimmer improve every year at BYU, so I have no doubt he'll dedicate himself to taking it up another notch. Whether thats enough, well who knows? Other than that, I like most of what you suggested, and welcome.

I too believe that the Jimmer handle we see right now is not at its ceiling yet. I think if the organization would really invest in him, he can be an average PG in this league. And an average and not undersized PG in the league playing next to DMC and Reke could do wonders for this team.

Another thing is that looking at the West Finals now, we really need another big body next to CUZ. JT is not that material and never will.
I like JT, but I think it's time to trade him. Bring back Cole next for another 3 season as our cheap banger.
Trade Chuck as well and let's draft a big man. Someone taller than CUZ so DMC can also switch as PF at times where he can really throw his weight around opponents.
Although this is a weak draft, but there are lots of really nice bigs in this draft that's better than Whiteside. Maybe we can get a Hibbert here.
Noel, Zeller, Len, or Noguiera would be intriguing next to DMC.

BTW, I did forgot about Toney D. Reke + Toney = lockdown that perimeter.

Robin Lopez would be nice next to DMC.
Another guy from N.O. I feel could use new home is Henry.

And where's that SF.....LOL

 

[cuad]

Salmons is actually an expiring next year, so I think it's better to keep him as trade bait instead of amnestying him.

 

[upinsmoke]

If we use the amnesty on Salmons then we're on the hook for his salary next year so letting him expire or trading him would be the right move. My .2 cents would be to trade our pick with either mt or Thompson of course not if we get tge #1 overall.

1.T. Douglas
2.Evans
3.W. Chandler
4.Patterson
5.Cuz

 

[Darth Divac]

If we use the amnesty on Salmons then we're on the hook for his salary next year so letting him expire or trading him would be the right move. My .2 cents would be to trade our pick with either mt or Thompson of course not if we get tge #1 overall.

1.T. Douglas
2.Evans
3.W. Chandler
4.Patterson
5.Cuz

I've been in love with Chandler for a while now.He's so versatile, he can run the offense, defend, shoot the lights out, defend, finish around and above the basket, defend, space the floor, and did I mention he can defend?

 

[cuad]

Can Wilson Chandler really shoot? .355 is his best percentage in the playoffs. :/ I don't want any regular season queens/playoff softies on the team.

 

[Darth Divac]

He makes up for it with great defense. Besides, it's not like we'd be making him the center of our offense. We'd be bringing him in for defense, leadership, ball distributing and rebounding.

 

[VF21]

Thankyou for the kind welcome!

My exact point is that Jimmer isn't ready, that's obvious. But put him in there, and let the chips fall where they may. It might make the Kings lose, but who cares? They lose anyway! He's got the highest ceiling of any guard on our roster, with the exception of Evans.

If you're really worried about Jimmer at the point, move Tyreke back to the point and play Jimmer as the starting SG. Either way, it's time to give him a baptism of fire. They've babied him for long enough now.

Those days are behind us. Sacramento is no longer going to be reduced to doing things that will not be productive. I'm fond of Jimmer but as Padrino says, he's more of a bench or role player than he is a starter. And that's something people need to remember. A good solid shooter that can come off the bench is every bit as valuable as the starting five. Some fans nowadays are way too wrapped up in the starter mentality. Look at San Antonio and you'll see the perfect example of a team built for the long haul, and it's deal in part to the DEPTH they have available.

 

[Hadlowe]

that's a better argument for upgrading our talent at the position than saying "screw it, let's just roll with what we have and if we tank another season, then so be it!". if you want to completely start over, meaning you ship out everything of significant value acquire picks and pray that you can somehow land a potential franchise player in next year's class, okay, it's an option. not necessarily one I'd favour, mostly because I think this team with some roster fixes and a better coach can be a playoff team. however, if you think we're going to lose anyway, don't acquire a guy like Iggy and don't think that Cuz or Tyreke are going to want to be a part of that team going forward.

If we're going to tank, next year is the year to do it. There are several future all-stars in the draft next year.

Jimmer seems to be the controversial part of your suggestion. Depending on who we pick up to play SF and/or defensive big-man, I like the pairing of Jimmer and Tyreke in the backcourt and have since he was drafted. I think guards like Derek Rose and Russell Westbrook are fool's gold. High flying guards rarely last past age 30. A solid, ground bound guard who performs well in the half-court and plays team defense carries far less risk of injury. Jimmer's game is built for half-court offense playing off ball-dominant wings or offensive big men. I think Jimmer can play the Derek Fisher role adequately; hit 3 pointers, entry passes to Cousins, and make hockey assists on the perimeter.

Defense is the obvious problem. Even with Jimmer's improvement there, he still needs to have solid interior defensive stoppers to help him when he gets picked. In my mind, the problem is team defense and Jimmer's lack of experience. Neither of those is easily resolvable. If you can bolster the wings or the middle, and work on solid team defense, the issues might resolve to the point that Jimmer isn't the obvious target on defense.

I guess I'll have to hope that the new coaching staff and front office can put together a better team and team defense than we have over the last seven years.

 

[ESP47]

Stopped reading when you mentioned Jimmer.

 

[jalfa]

If we're going to tank, next year is the year to do it. There are several future all-stars in the draft next year.

I'm aware, hence the very next sentence. tanking next year is definitely an option, a somewhat appealing option even, but in order to do so, you have to do more than just stand pat, you have to blow it up completely.

 

[Fresno King]

I too believe that the Jimmer handle we see right now is not at its ceiling yet. I think if the organization would really invest in him, he can be an average PG in this league. And an average and not undersized PG in the league playing next to DMC and Reke could do wonders for this team.

Another thing is that looking at the West Finals now, we really need another big body next to CUZ. JT is not that material and never will.
I like JT, but I think it's time to trade him. Bring back Cole next for another 3 season as our cheap banger.
Trade Chuck as well and let's draft a big man. Someone taller than CUZ so DMC can also switch as PF at times where he can really throw his weight around opponents.
Although this is a weak draft, but there are lots of really nice bigs in this draft that's better than Whiteside. Maybe we can get a Hibbert here.
Noel, Zeller, Len, or Noguiera would be intriguing next to DMC.

BTW, I did forgot about Toney D. Reke + Toney = lockdown that perimeter.

Robin Lopez would be nice next to DMC.
Another guy from N.O. I feel could use new home is Henry.

And where's that SF.....LOL

He's in Indianapolis. Name is Danny Granger. If his knee checks out I'd love to trade our #1 pick to Pacers for Granger and their #1. A starting five of Thomas, Evans, Granger, Thompson & Cousins with Thornton, Patterson, Jimmer, Aldrich & Douglas off the bench works for me. Granger is a solid veteran, former All-Star and has playoff experience. I'm sure Pacers will shop him since they're winning without him.

 

[Nikolizzle]

I think Jimmer can play the Derek Fisher role adequately; hit 3 pointers, entry passes to Cousins, and make hockey assists on the perimeter.

That was my exact reasoning for putting him in my initial post.

I love Thomas, I really do. Douglas is an okay player. But given the right push, Jimmer will be our PG moving forward - Unless we're able to pick up Trey Burke in the draft.

 

[Glenn]

So we have gone through all this hell, acquired new owners, and the plan is to tank a season??? I want a team and owners that try to win. Tanking a season at this point gets us nothing. We don't need future hall of famers as if that is so predictable. We need to rearrange some mismatching parts and start winning.

If we tank next season, we will lose Tyreke and perhaps even Cousins. I don't know that for a fact but most athletes want to play to win and if that is not our goal, they very well may move on down the road and find a team with more honorable goals.

 

[Hadlowe]

So we have gone through all this hell, acquired new owners, and the plan is to tank a season??? I want a team and owners that try to win. Tanking a season at this point gets us nothing. We don't need future hall of famers as if that is so predictable. We need to rearrange some mismatching parts and start winning.

If we tank next season, we will lose Tyreke and perhaps even Cousins. I don't know that for a fact but most athletes want to play to win and if that is not our goal, they very well may move on down the road and find a team with more honorable goals.

Agreed. However, looking at the free agent market, unless the new ownership can bring in a Dwight Howard or Chris Paul in free agency or pull off a series of ridiculous one-sided trades, there is no "win now" option available. The roster is a low-talent, ill-fitting mess, starting with our glut of 2-guards. Whether Tyreke stays or leaves is almost beyond the team's control at this point. I have a sinking feeling that Minnesota or Phoenix will drop a max or near-max contract on him to shore up their weakest position.

 

[funkykingston]

Salmons is actually an expiring next year, so I think it's better to keep him as trade bait instead of amnestying him.

Exactly.

In my mind Salmons (or rather his ending contract), Thornton and Jimmer are trade bait and obviously we let James Johnson walk

Personally I'd build a team centered around winning in the playoffs - big, imposing, defensive and able to score in the halfcourt. And I'd start by resinigng Tyreke.

Tyreke back at PG, DMC at either PF or C depending on who we pair him with, IT off the bench in a Jason Terry type role, Jason Thompson ideally as the 3rd big, PPat as an option to stretch defenses, Toney Douglas as the third PG

Essentially that means filling three spots. Both wing spots would ideally add shooting and defense with at least one of them being a good ballhandler/passer. The second big should be a shot blocker/rebounder. Passing and post offense would be bonuses.

Between free agency, a trade and the draft that's doable.

Unless Salmons was amnestied the Kings will have some caproom but not enough to make a huge splash. So either Johnny Fish gets packaged in a big deal (Granger maybe?) or if Ranadive & co can handle the cost, you amnesty him and free up cash to go after a mid level FA that is a good fit.

The draft should surely fill one spot. Whether it's Porter at the 3, Noel or Gobert next to Big Cuz, Oladipo at the 2 etc there's guys that can fit the roles I've laid out. As a side note, if he lasts until the 2nd round Allen Crabbe is a guy I like a lot in terms of fit.

And a trade packaging Thornton & Jimmer (and possibly Salmon's contract or even Chuck Hayes if he has any value) should bring back the third starter and some bench help.

It's hard to lay out an exact scenario because obviously it starts with where the Kings end up in the lottery and how active they are on draft day. But the approach is the thing for me. I don't want small ball. I don't want run-and-gun. I want winning basketball. Golden State looks like a fantastic young team, but I'm hoping they aren't the blueprint for the Kings because what talent currently exists on this roster would be much better served with a more Memphis or Indiana like approach to team building.

 

[Entity]

jimmer is a novelty. He is chinese handcuffs, fart machine, lava lamp.

 

[Glenn]

Exactly.

In my mind Salmons (or rather his ending contract), Thornton and Jimmer are trade bait and obviously we let James Johnson walk

Personally I'd build a team centered around winning in the playoffs - big, imposing, defensive and able to score in the halfcourt. And I'd start by resinigng Tyreke.

Tyreke back at PG, DMC at either PF or C depending on who we pair him with, IT off the bench in a Jason Terry type role, Jason Thompson ideally as the 3rd big, PPat as an option to stretch defenses, Toney Douglas as the third PG

Essentially that means filling three spots. Both wing spots would ideally add shooting and defense with at least one of them being a good ballhandler/passer. The second big should be a shot blocker/rebounder. Passing and post offense would be bonuses.

Between free agency, a trade and the draft that's doable.

Unless Salmons was amnestied the Kings will have some caproom but not enough to make a huge splash. So either Johnny Fish gets packaged in a big deal (Granger maybe?) or if Ranadive & co can handle the cost, you amnesty him and free up cash to go after a mid level FA that is a good fit.

The draft should surely fill one spot. Whether it's Porter at the 3, Noel or Gobert next to Big Cuz, Oladipo at the 2 etc there's guys that can fit the roles I've laid out. As a side note, if he lasts until the 2nd round Allen Crabbe is a guy I like a lot in terms of fit.

And a trade packaging Thornton & Jimmer (and possibly Salmon's contract or even Chuck Hayes if he has any value) should bring back the third starter and some bench help.

It's hard to lay out an exact scenario because obviously it starts with where the Kings end up in the lottery and how active they are on draft day. But the approach is the thing for me. I don't want small ball. I don't want run-and-gun. I want winning basketball. Golden State looks like a fantastic young team, but I'm hoping they aren't the blueprint for the Kings because what talent currently exists on this roster would be much better served with a more Memphis or Indiana like approach to team building.

So you want a boring team that wins? Interesting concept. There was a time when we had Cuz, Daly, and Tyreke and it appeared we were going to get a team that could simply beat other teams to death. That ended immediately as we went flying off in a huge tangent.