More evidence not to step in the ring with Walter.
The Wrestling Thread~
- Thread starter SLAB
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Wrestling isn't real.
I remember a volume of SHIMMER where Kellie Skater took, like, a hundred chops from Mercedes Martinez, and spent the rest of the weekend looking like she'd been fed through a wood chipper.
So Christian is the big mega signing?
I like AEW. But they are such marks for their own product.
I like AEW. But they are such marks for their own product.
SLAB
Hall of Famer
Lmao I saw Christian on my timeline and my immediate reaction was “... that’s it huh?”
Honestly, it’s not that surprising. AEW knows how to pander to the Internet fans who mostly think Christian was (is still?) an untapped/underused mega-talent held down by big bad WWE.
I always saw Christian exactly as I see a guy like Kofi. The most midcard man on the roster.
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What's weird to me is they sign everyone who was in WCW that is still basically active somehow and then as much young IWC faves that they can afford, but Christian really doesn't tick either box. I guess as you say he may be a darling of the older IWC but I don't get it?
I'm going to push back on this, a little bit. I mean, I obviously feel a way about @SLAB's Kofi slander but, that aside, all AEW actually said was that they had a new signing, that he was a "big name," and that he was a "HOF-level" talent... How does that not describe Christian?
- "Big Name": Take WWE and AEW off the board: now, name a single promotion on the planet that has two names bigger than Christian?
- "HOF-level talent": Christian is one of only about a dozen guys in the post-WCW era who have held World Titles both inside and outside of WWE. There's a whole bunch of guys with a lot less than that on their résumés, who are already in the Hall of Fame.
Let's be clear - I was expecting it to be a Christian level talent, in fact I had come to the conclusion it was Christian by Sunday morning. I just also think AEW hyped it up more than it needed to be hyped. That was their fail.
Is he a HOF worthy talent? Arguably - of course he is, but I'm long on record of being "small hall" - and he was a clear #2 to me, although certainly not a Neidhart or Jannetty. But I'll give him his due, but he also doesn't move my needle personally. And I think will cost someone else time who might be better off for it.
Is he a HOF worthy talent? Arguably - of course he is, but I'm long on record of being "small hall" - and he was a clear #2 to me, although certainly not a Neidhart or Jannetty. But I'll give him his due, but he also doesn't move my needle personally. And I think will cost someone else time who might be better off for it.
I find these statements to be incongruous. If "of course" he's HOF worthy, then there's no argument to be had. And, if a guy's been a World Champion in WWE and in another major promotion (for differing values of "major," stipulated), then he's a no-argument HOF, in my eyes. There's been, like, eleven guys that have been able to put that on their résumé, since WCW closed, and Christian is one of them.
And, as far as AEW hyping it up "more than it needed to be hyped," I disagree. I think that AEW hyped it up exactly the right amount, and fans who wanted it to be Brock, or Punk, or Batista, or somebody like that, did all the additional hyping, in their own minds, without AEW's help. It's not AEW's fault if they said "former World Champion," and you (again, "royal" you) heard "has main evented Wrestlemania."
Ugh. You SOB's have got me over here defending AEW. Now, I feel dirty.
I'm a small hall person, I realize that this is a minority sentiment. Or at least that it seems everybody has some guy that they feel has been slighted which tends to lead to expanding the hall to more and more people. I think any "big hall" person is going to say "of course Christian is", in my mind, I am not entirely sure. I don't see why that's controversial.
And I guess just hyping "big signings" from WWE (or stars from WWF/WCW) isn't my thing either. It makes them seem small time.
It's just a perspective thing. I watch AEW weekly. I think they have a decent product, but I also think its a clown show at times.
I find that "small hall" people tend to be people who take the "fame" part of "Hall of Fame" entirely too literally. And, frankly, being in favor of a "small hall" in a worked sport is totally pointless.
Regardless of whether or not he is a HOF talent isn't my issue as much as he does not move the needle for me in 2021. I thought AEW was about creating opportunity for people WWE isn't giving it to with a splash of traditional wrasslin'. Christian is taking someone's spot and I am not sure what he is adding.
60 percent of the founders of AEW are guys who made, "I don't actually want to go to WWE" part of their wrestling character, so I'm not sure why you ever thought that? The two longest reigning champions in AEW history are both guys who got extended runs on top in WWE. The only opportunity that Moxley has gotten in AEW, that he didn't get in WWE, is the opportunity to maim himself.
It's been a focal point of the majority of the ex-WWE guys that Vince wouldn't use them right. From Cody to Brodie Lee to even Mox. I think there are a few guys like Jericho that don't have a beef but the majority did which is why they almost always have some cheap shot at Vince or HHH worked into their shows/angles somehow.
First of All™, ex-WWE guys always say stuff like that when they leave WWE. That has nothing to do with whether or not AEW was founded on that ethos, or if that's "what they're about." Look at what guys like Miro and Shawn Spears are doing in AEW, and tell me that they were justified in complaining about being underused in WWE. Look at what Curt Hawkins Brian Myers is doing in Impact, and tell me that he's justified in complaining about he was underused. Those guys are mid as ****. They are every bit the midcard guys that @SLAB thinks that Kofi is (And frankly, that's, like, 90 percent of the reason why SLAB calling Kofi a midcard guy offends me so much: when I think of midcard, I think of guys like Spears and Meyers, and Chuck Taylor, and Jungle Boy, et. al, and to talk about Kofi Kingston as if he's on their level, or they're on his, is insulting as ****, to me). The only guys to go from WWE to AEW to even kinda/sorta justify their claims that they weren't being used correctly are FTR, and even they are more or less at the same spot on the card.
Second of all, Moxley was lying like ****, and his version of events was ahistorical as ****. Like, he had a legitimate complaint about them not letting him write his own promos, maybe, but not using him correctly? The guy was WWE Champion; they put him in a feud that was basically to determine who the "face of WWE" was going to be, and he's the guy who went over. What Moxley means when he says that he wasn't used correctly is that he wanted to work ultraviolent garbage matches, and WWE wouldn't let him work ultraviolet garbage matches. Moxley's idea of being used correctly is him bleeding all over the ring, and being able to curse in his promos, and WWE's corporate asses weren't going for that, so he left. And, you know what I'm happy that he's happy, but he ain't gotta lie to kick it.
Point being, AEW wasn't founded on the idea of giving people opportunity that WWE wasn't giving it to: it was founded on the idea that you don't need WWE to make it in the business, which might sound like the same thing, but really isn't, at all. AEW is trying to grow their brand right now; that means they're trying to score more lucrative TV deals, and international partnerships, and sponsorships. Jericho as much as admitted, in a recent interview, that he was champion as long as he was, in part because AEW is trying to negotiate TV deals in places like India, and he's one of the only guys AEW has that wrestling fans in India have heard of. You know who else, for better or worse, is a guy that wrestling fans in India have heard of? Christian. I like what guys like Darby Allin and Jurassic Express have got going, but they aren't going to get casuals in India and China to watch AEW... But Christian might.
So, with apologies to you and @SLAB, AEW doesn't care whether Christian moves the needle for guys like you; that's not why he's there, and they know that you guys are going to watch, anyway. He's a bigger deal than y'all want him to be... which isn't to say that it's actually going to work, all that being said.
Second of all, Moxley was lying like ****, and his version of events was ahistorical as ****. Like, he had a legitimate complaint about them not letting him write his own promos, maybe, but not using him correctly? The guy was WWE Champion; they put him in a feud that was basically to determine who the "face of WWE" was going to be, and he's the guy who went over. What Moxley means when he says that he wasn't used correctly is that he wanted to work ultraviolent garbage matches, and WWE wouldn't let him work ultraviolet garbage matches. Moxley's idea of being used correctly is him bleeding all over the ring, and being able to curse in his promos, and WWE's corporate asses weren't going for that, so he left. And, you know what I'm happy that he's happy, but he ain't gotta lie to kick it.
Point being, AEW wasn't founded on the idea of giving people opportunity that WWE wasn't giving it to: it was founded on the idea that you don't need WWE to make it in the business, which might sound like the same thing, but really isn't, at all. AEW is trying to grow their brand right now; that means they're trying to score more lucrative TV deals, and international partnerships, and sponsorships. Jericho as much as admitted, in a recent interview, that he was champion as long as he was, in part because AEW is trying to negotiate TV deals in places like India, and he's one of the only guys AEW has that wrestling fans in India have heard of. You know who else, for better or worse, is a guy that wrestling fans in India have heard of? Christian. I like what guys like Darby Allin and Jurassic Express have got going, but they aren't going to get casuals in India and China to watch AEW... But Christian might.
So, with apologies to you and @SLAB, AEW doesn't care whether Christian moves the needle for guys like you; that's not why he's there, and they know that you guys are going to watch, anyway. He's a bigger deal than y'all want him to be... which isn't to say that it's actually going to work, all that being said.
I agree with 95% of what you just said which is why my biggest complaint is that AEW constantly calling back and trying to get over on WWE instead of focusing on what does work about their brand. By all means sign Christian if that is going to get India and China deals but to sell his signing as a big part of the weekend PPV it was destined to flop.
What do you think should have been a bigger part of the PPV?
SLAB
Hall of Famer
We do differ on our mindset of the midcard. To me there’s no shame in being a perennial IC Champion / Tag Team Ace, and there’s guys who flourish in the role. Cesaro, Christian, Matt Hardy. All other examples of invaluable talents that I just don’t view as top-champion material.
Hawkins, Ryder, Spears? They aren’t there. I’d call them low-card. Easily replaced. And I say that as a guy who actually likes Hawkins and Ryder.
Hawkins, Ryder, Spears? They aren’t there. I’d call them low-card. Easily replaced. And I say that as a guy who actually likes Hawkins and Ryder.
I can't accept your definition of "low-card." Low-card guys don't get managers; they don't get promo time, and they don't get backstage skits. Shawn Spears isn't "low-card." The guys who job to him on Dark are "low-card."
There's an entire upper midcard, between the midcard and the main eventers, that you are erasing.
There's an entire upper midcard, between the midcard and the main eventers, that you are erasing.
Ringwork and properly paying off the main event. It's totally fine to debut new people. But wouldn't they have gotten more mileage from a total surprise appearance by Christian rather than a tease that in most people's eyes didn't quite live up to the hype?
The only way that they would have gotten more mileage out of a surprise appearance by Christian at the PPV is if they thought that it would lead to a ratings boost on the next episode of Dynamite. And, if you think that the reveal was a flop, I have no idea why you think that would have worked?
Like, seriously, you think that the same people who were disappointed by Christian being the big signing would have seen him show up out of nowhere on PPV and thought, "Damn, I can't wait to see what he has to say on Wednesday!"?
Like, seriously, you think that the same people who were disappointed by Christian being the big signing would have seen him show up out of nowhere on PPV and thought, "Damn, I can't wait to see what he has to say on Wednesday!"?
I think because it's an expectations game? Give a gal a pair of diamond earrings in a box that looks like it contains a ring.
But that just goes back to what I said, yesterday: you guys worked yourself into a shoot.
I really only said it was predictably underwhelming.
... And my original premise was that it was properly whelmed. And I don't know what you thought you were going to get, that would have met your expectations?
Who's a bigger name than Christian, that AEW actually had a reasonable chance of signing? You guys look at a Christian and think, "midcard" but, like I said yesterday, give me the promotion outside of WWE and AEW that has two names bigger than Christian, on their entire roster? That guy's a headliner, in any promotion that's not run by Vince McMahon.
Who's a bigger name than Christian, that AEW actually had a reasonable chance of signing? You guys look at a Christian and think, "midcard" but, like I said yesterday, give me the promotion outside of WWE and AEW that has two names bigger than Christian, on their entire roster? That guy's a headliner, in any promotion that's not run by Vince McMahon.
Well I settled on Christian partially because Kurt Angle started to tease that it was him to drive traffic to his podcast so I ruled him out.
Arguably he'd be a bigger name signing. As would Rob Van Dam and Bubba Ray. I'll definitely say that in 2021 I would much rather see Christian in-ring than any of those guys. So I'll give them that. If India and China really want those old aging stars I do get it, but it diminishes the product in my eyes for non-emergent markets.
Arguably he'd be a bigger name signing. As would Rob Van Dam and Bubba Ray. I'll definitely say that in 2021 I would much rather see Christian in-ring than any of those guys. So I'll give them that. If India and China really want those old aging stars I do get it, but it diminishes the product in my eyes for non-emergent markets.
Angle and Van Dam would be bigger names, but both of those guys are washed, and Christian isn't. We'll have to agree to disagree about Bully Ray.
AEW is already on TNT, with their prospects of getting on OTA network TV a pipe dream, at best. I'd argue that they've already maximized their growth in non-emergent markets.
I am ecstatic about this. Molly Holly is my favorite female superstar of pre-Women's Revolution era WWE, and one of my Top 5 favorite superstars, men and women, of both the Attitude and Ruthless Aggression eras (and she ain't five).
I had the biggest crush on her: I remember that she was at an autograph session that was on the base, when I was stationed at Pearl Harbor, and she was so beautiful, in person, that I lost the ability to speak, and I couldn't move. The guy behind me had to practically push me out of the way, after she signed my picture
EDIT - And anybody who fixes their lips to say something about "small hall" is getting banned, out of spite.
Funny because I always thought her contribution to the development of the women's division in general makes her worthy of being put in my "small hall". Behind the scenes she was probably the most important female from the AE.
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