The Tyreke Evans Saga

[FaStRmAn]

Ironic much? By that logic, there are no problems that exist outside of individual's minds. Which is certainly something that can be argued, but to do so here is utterly pointless. Thanks, Grammar Girl. I'm glad to see you aren't completely useless. You can be counted on for such inanities as correcting grammatical errors. I guess that counts for something.

Hurray !!

 

[Gary]

It's not that I don't have compassion it's just that he's paid millions of dollars to play a game every couple/few days. If his life is so messed up that he can't do that then he has no business playing right now. It would be time to file those disability papers and see a shrink or something.

Now if he's depressed because the team sucks then he should suck it up and go out there and play his *** off to make them better. Maybe get the team involved or something rather than chucking shot after shot.

I had always been different myself.. Ever since I was a kid I knew I was different. Not many friend, and in social situations I would go on and on about things nobody else was interested in. Basically I would bore whoever I chose to talk to. Plus I came off as not having any compassion for anyone, and had no idea I was hurting someone feelings when in fact they were pretty devastated because of what I did. So I go to the Dr. about 10 years ago and got diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome. Basically higher functioning autism. Sucks that it took me so long to have it checked out and it is basically why I come off as an *** sometimes or hurt people's feelings and not realize it. I always thought everyone else was weird and that I was normal.. Go figure eh?

Anyhow, he owes it to himself and his employers to keep them in the know about what's going on, and take time off if needed.

 

[Asaf]

Whatever the problem is, saying "I have personal problems that make me suck on the court but I can't tell you what they are" just doesn't cut it. If he's got issues to deal with ,then by all means, he should deal with them and not play if he can't play. If he can play, and he doesn't want to say what the problems are, he should've just not said anything (rather, Westphal shouldn't have said anything). The way they presented it just screams copout.

 

[FaStRmAn]

You are so in the wrong here. Tyreke doesn't owe us jack with regards to what's going on with his family. If there's honestly a family issue, then we hope it resolves itself, and that's it. Calling it an excuse is callous at best.

Your post is selfish and lacks tact, and if it is the trend that this place is taking, I think I'm going to give myself a timeout. Meanwhile, I'll just hang out in PM land where Slim can give me the CH hookup.

Peace.

It's BASKETBALL PEOPLE!!! It isn't life or death! It doesnt cause blindness! There will be no loss of life or limb if the Kings dont get even one more win this YEAR! This was a young team that had little to no chance at a playoff run. They dont have the star power or the talent to overcome all of the obsticals that have befallen them. But the SUN WILL RISE tomorrow! I will still tune into the next game pulling for the team. And you will be back here next game talking about the team. We are obviously all die hard fans here. There is no reason to attack the team members because of anything that isnt related to basketball. Especially if one of our team's players has fallen on hard times. You know money don't make happiness. Just because these players get paid doesnt magically make their lives perfect. I think every one here needs to remember that we are dealing with HUMAN BEINGS, not robots. I am pulling for Tyreke and I hope that whatever is negatively effecting him is resolved and eventually he goes back to playing good basketball. But no one should expect anyone to do anything they couldn't do themselves. I guess what I'm trying to say is that even though I watch HS basketball, D-League, College and Pro Basketball, I know that there are many more things in life more important than basketball. MANY more.

 

[Bricklayer]

I disagree. With all due respect to Tyreke and his family, his job is a professional basketball player, and he's a significant part of an organisation that relies heavily on him. I don't think he needs to publicly announce his problems, but he should have at least told his head coach that he is struggling with personal issues. No disclosure needed, just "Hey coach, I'm sorry I've been playing so badly. It's not just the foot, I've also got some personal problems which I'm not comfortable sharing, and I don't think it's fair to the team for you to make me the focus of the offense right now."

By still allowing the coaches to give him the ball to try and do something, only to turn it over or miss layups, Tyreke is the one being selfish. You have about 8 other guys putting in the time out there, guys who worked hard in the offseason, guys who came into camp in great shape, and largely because of Tyreke's play the team isn't winning. It's understandable to play badly because of issues off the court, it's not so understandable for him to not let at least PW know about it for at least a month. Fans are paying to watch the Kings, and I don't think it's fair for good money to be paid to watch the same someone screw up every game.

If a professional singer on tour suddenly has some problems back home, is he excused from still performing his best at a concert that people pay actual money for? Fans can be understanding, but it has to be done in the right way. You cancel the tour, cite personal reasons that are undisclosed, give everyone their money back. That's how it works. You don't continue your frikin tour for two months singing off pitch every concert and then at the end of it all say "sorry folks, I've got personal problems and so I've been singing like a dead horse"

I sincerely hope that whatever the issue is it will be solved and things will be ok for Tyreke and his family. All I'm saying is letting his employers or coach know about them a little earlier would have been more professional. Sometimes professionalism needs to be sacrificed for personal reasons, and that may be the case here, but the fact is it would have been MORE PROFESSIONAL if he didn't wait till now to voice it out.

That is just foolish.

If you have some major issue at home, and decide to work through it, there are two ways to play it:

1) go tell your boss "I have had some major issue at home, I may not be able to work up to standards", which is mostly just a fantasy. Its a weak excuse made looking for special treatment wihtout even seeing how it goes. Employers as a rule aren't going to appreciate you making exuses without even giving things a try.

2) the way most people handle it: go to work, push on through, assume you can handle it, fight through it. It is gets too bad, tell the boss. If you're 21, not interested in excuses, you fight on even longer, even past the point of reasonablness, because you're 21, and you're proud, and you think you can handle anything the world can throw at you. If Westphal is to be believed it took a direct inquiry from him for Tyreke to reveal whatever. And hey, that may even be another blackmark on Westphal because its a question you should have asked long ago. But still, this was not Tyreke suddenly volunteering information.

 

[nickmcclure]

I'm not going to call this post callous, no. I'm going to officially label this the dumbest piece of writing I have ever had the misfortune of reading. I can't believe this thread has brought out all of these a-holes with brains and hearts of stone, but here they come, like roaches when the lights go dark. I would hope that no one continues to pull that "liberal" card any further.

There's no liberal agenda going on. It's about respecting someone's humanity instead of sitting at your keyboard throwing out presumptions about his condition and making demands of them like million dollar robots who must continue to perform their circus act without fail, regardless of anything that goes wrong. Are we back in the stone age? Seriously? We can't just respect that he has personal issues that he doesn't want you to know about? Of course not, let's dial it back to high school mode and throw out wild assumptions like clinical depression or maybe a gay rumor or two.

We expected a 21-year old kid with a single year of college to fully know how to conduct himself as a professional? I'm not excusing him from anything. It was a misstep to withold information like that from his employer. He's sucked pretty much the whole year and I've been frustrated with it too. You don't excuse him but you cut him some slack -- because he might look like a man, but he's not there yet. We all witnessed the LeBron debacle this summer. He's 5 years older than Tyreke but he carries himself like the douchebag fratboys that I avoided in college. Now he's down in Miami throwing an 82-game long frat party along with his bros.

These are basically athletic, over-grown kids that we pay to watch. Some behave more maturely than others. Before all of this, we considered ourselves lucky to have one of the more mature and precocious of the young ones in Evans. So now all of a sudden we forget all that and can't grant him a misstep? Is his behavior anything compared to what Cousins (1 year younger) has been doing?

tl:dr -- A bunch of a-holes in this thread, first and foremost the grade A genius I quoted above.

this, this and this, good job.

 

[Dr. Spaceman]

Ironic much? By that logic, there are no problems that exist outside of individual's minds. Which is certainly something that can be argued, but to do so here is utterly pointless. Thanks, Grammar Girl. I'm glad to see you aren't completely useless. You can be counted on for such inanities as correcting grammatical errors. I guess that counts for something.

Grammar Girl here -- I think you should make sure you get a grip on basics like affect and effect before you start (incorrectly) throwing out big boy words like irony at people. There was nothing to be mistaken in your posts -- you're not exactly rewriting the Epic of Gilgamesh here, trust that.

By that logic, there are no problems that exist outside of individual's minds. Which is certainly something that can be argued, but to do so here is utterly pointless.

Hm, again with the broken comprehension. How can you derive completely BS and false logic like that from what I said and still act like you're the one in the right here?

Since you're having trouble, the point being made was not a blanket statement. It was specifically about you. To assume when I said that your standard for judgment in this situation was wrong to be a statement that nothing wrong happened or can happen is simply a moronic interpretation. Your standards (as in just you. RookieoftheDay. Still following?) specifically, not anyone else, are out of line with those of a reasonable member of society.

How do I know this? Because we both agree that Tyreke Evans was wrong for not going to his coach sooner if his off-court issues were affecting his on-court performance. The difference is that, at some point, I backed off from judging because yes, 21 is still an age of enough youth and a lack of world experience to justify not knowing when to stop carrying the weight of the world on your shoulders and admit you need help, especially to an employer who has thrown much of said weight on to you. Whether you agree or not is a matter of opinion, obviously. There is not always a clear cut line to follow, even though you seem to believe there is.

More importantly, I and many others here can step back and know that at the end of the day, we’re debating over high-priced entertainers with an importance to the real world roughly equivalent to the WWE. So if a real world problem plagues the life of an entertainer, I as a patron can back off and hope he gets his issues sorted out and get back to entertaining, because I know his job is so far less relevant than his personal well-being in the grand scheme of his life or mine. The main issue at work here is that you (yep, just you, RookieoftheDay) can’t seem to make that distinction and continue on harping and harping on how egregious this all is, as if he were next in line to rule the free world. You might argue that it’s principal above all else, but the reality of it is that it’s not black and white like you think it should be. This situation involving said NBA player falls matter of factly into a gray area.

His coach has already come out and voiced his support for him in light of those personal issues, in light of how far along into the season we are, because he can understand he’s not coaching the President of the United States. He’s coaching a kid playing a damn game, and he can see that getting someone’s personal life in order lies on a plane far above and beyond how well he can put a ball through a hoop on a daily basis. So if those directly affected by him can let it go, why can’t you do the same?








Disclaimer: I actually already know the answer to that last question, because it’s written at the bottom of my earlier post in this thread.

 

[bajaden]

And the uneducated dribble continues! How about you do some research and reading on depression and other mental conditions and come back with a much better understanding on what depression does to people and how it impacts their mental clarity!

Its really easy to be an armchair expert and come out with hollier than thou attitude but if Tyreke's issue is as someone suggested depression related then your post is so uneducated and irrational because you clearly do not have an understanding on what impact mental illnesses like depression have on a human being.

I think your missing Rookie's point. I think all he's saying is that something stinks in the basement. First we have our ROY playing badly with no explaination. Then he's playing badly because of chronicly bad ankles. Then he's playing badly because of his ankles, and now a foot problem that no one knows about. But when Tryeke is asked, he says he good to go. Then Tyreke tells someone that he's going to take some time off and he has broken bones in his foot. Then the doctor says no break but just a mild case of however you spell it foot trouble. And now, its family or some type of off the court problem that is apparently none of our business.

All Rookie is saying, is if he has these problems, it might be a good idea to tell your head coach and GM, and let them decide whether you should sit for a while. Or go home and take care of whatever it is thats causing the problem. If your a professional basketball player, and your getting paid millions of dollars to perform at a certain level. When people are paying larged amounts of money to come and see you play, you owe it to management to let them know your having a problem, and what that problem is. No one is saying that he has to go public with all the details.

Personally I'd be relieved to know that there's a reason for his poor play. You have to be able to seperate the person from the player. We're fans, and I for one have compassion for anyone thats battling a problem, and especially one of my favorite players on the team. But if Tyreke the player is being affected by Tyreke the person, then something has to be done to rectify it. And Management needs to be open and clear with the fans as much as they can be without violating Tyreke's privicy.

 

[Emma]

You don't have to inform your boss if you're having mental issues, forcing someone to do so is against the law. Typically, as Bricklayer said, people handle it until they can't handle it anymore, then they mysteriously disappear for about two weeks without prior notice, only to call from the hospital with information about... Well, never mind any of that, really, I think we're fortunate to know that he has asked for the organization's understanding. Westphal should not have said a thing to us, unless Tyreke green lighted him to do so. The ankle seems more of an issue to me, really.

Hearsay, anyway.

What I should probably be afraid to say is that the team seems on the brink of accepting a culture of losing - chicago cubs-esque, I might add. As a fan I have had just about nothing positive to say.

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

Grammar Girl here -- I think you should make sure you get a grip on basics like affect and effect before you start (incorrectly) throwing out big boy words like irony at people.

Perhaps you could wrap your head around the idea that sometimes, in writing, folks make mistakes. Only the most anal retentive make a habit of correcting other people’s grammar.
Not to mention, if you weren’t able to glean that affect meant effect, that makes you the idiot, not me.

Hm, again with the broken comprehension. How can you derive completely BS and false logic like that from what I said and still act like you're the one in the right here?

Since you're having trouble, the point being made was not a blanket statement. It was specifically about you. To assume when I said that your standard for judgment in this situation was wrong to be a statement that nothing wrong happened or can happen is simply a moronic interpretation. Your standards (as in just you. RookieoftheDay. Still following?) specifically, not anyone else, are out of line with those of a reasonable member of society.

My, don’t we get fussy when we don’t get the answers we want. I’m having no trouble at all. Despite what you may think, your post wasn’t exactly complex. You’re as transparent as glass. You made an irrelevant point about how I was projecting my expectations onto society and I pointed out how the same could be said of anyone who thinks there’s something wrong, with anything. Pretty simple stuff. Obviously not simple enough for you, though. If you don't like that other folks can answer you in the way they see fit, then I'd say you have some control issues. Might want to seek some help about that. And "reasonable member of society"? LOL, I'd love to hear your criteria for that. I'm betting, it isn't exactly reasonable.

How do I know this? Because we both agree that Tyreke Evans was wrong for not going to his coach sooner if his off-court issues were affecting his on-court performance. The difference is that, at some point, I backed off from judging because yes, 21 is still an age of enough youth and a lack of world experience to justify not knowing when to stop carrying the weight of the world on your shoulders and admit you need help, especially to an employer who has thrown much of said weight on to you. Whether you agree or not is a matter of opinion, obviously. There is not always a clear cut line to follow, even though you seem to believe there is.

Good for you. You want a medal? You backed off at that point and I didn’t. That’s because...News flash...we’re different people. Unlike you though, I’m perfectly content with other folks not thinking about things exactly as I do.

The main issue at work here is that you (yep, just you, RookieoftheDay) can’t seem to make that distinction and continue on harping and harping on how egregious this all is, as if he were next in line to rule the free world. You might argue that it’s principal above all else, but the reality of it is that it’s not black and white like you think it should be. This situation involving said NBA player falls matter of factly into a gray area.

There is no distinction the way I see it. He was either irresponsible and selfish in how he handled it, or he wasn’t. There’s no “gray area” to it for me.

His coach has already come out and voiced his support for him in light of those personal issues, in light of how far along into the season we are, because he can understand he’s not coaching the President of the United States. He’s coaching a kid playing a damn game, and he can see that getting someone’s personal life in order lies on a plane far above and beyond how well he can put a ball through a hoop on a daily basis. So if those directly affected by him can let it go, why can’t you do the same?

Nice, so you presume to speak for the coach. Because you know what he’s said to Tyreke behind closed doors, right? I bet He said “Hey, no big deal Tyreke, it’s just a damn game. Don’t worry about it, bro”.

And the President? Really??? Can you say..red herring? LOL.

It was specifically about you. To assume when I said that your standard for judgment in this situation was wrong to be a statement that nothing wrong happened or can happen is simply a moronic interpretation.

Right. I never said that you were saying that. What I said, was basically that you might as well say that because it can be applied to anything. What was that you were saying bout reading comprehension again? Me think someone needs to practice what they preach.

 

[bajaden]

You don't have to inform your boss if you're having mental issues, forcing someone to do so is against the law. Typically, as Bricklayer said, people handle it until they can't handle it anymore, then they mysteriously disappear for about two weeks without prior notice, only to call from the hospital with information about... Well, never mind any of that, really, I think we're fortunate to know that he has asked for the organization's understanding. Westphal should not have said a thing to us, unless Tyreke green lighted him to do so. The ankle seems more of an issue to me, really.

Hearsay, anyway.

What I should probably be afraid to say is that the team seems on the brink of accepting a culture of losing - chicago cubs-esque, I might add. As a fan I have had just about nothing positive to say.

I quite agree that there's no obligation on anyone's part to report problems that may be off the court, unless of course they're crimimal. And I think this thing is being blown way out of proportion. In fact, I think Westphal did Tyreke a disservice by saying what he said. Its another thing that should have stayed in house. But he did say what he said, and here we are as fans arguing over something we really know nothing about. The result of that is speculation by some people that are ill-equiped, and some of who should probably be in theropy themselves.

If we put this aside, and step back and look at the bigger picture, the whole thing is a mess. And all the Cousins talk, and now the Tyreke talk does, is take the spotlight off the bigger problems with this team. I've been a Kings fan from day one, and I can't remember a bigger mess than the one right now. Even when we set the all time record for road losses in a row, it didn't seem this bad. I'm done pointing fingers for a while. All I can do now is hope that Petrie, and Westphal can figure out how to start over and get the ship going in the right direction. I think it would behove Westphal to keep his disciplinary actions off the front page of the Bee. Things need to calm down,and they won't if we keep reading some new piece of BS every other day.

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

I think Westphal did Tyreke a disservice by saying what he said. .

He said he asked Tyreke and he said it was ok to say something.

 

[Asaf]

He said he asked Tyreke and he said it was ok to say something.

He shouldn't have asked for permission. He should know better. As long as the details can't be disclosed he should've just kept his mouth shut and not said anything. Making this public was more an excuse for himself than for Tyreke. Poor Westphal, his star sophomore is having personal problems and his star rookie is an unprofessional child who deserves public humiliation by his coach - that explains the 5-22 record, doesn't it...

 

[mr. moustache]

He shouldn't have asked for permission. He should know better. As long as the details can't be disclosed he should've just kept his mouth shut and not said anything. Making this public was more an excuse for himself than for Tyreke. Poor Westphal, his star sophomore is having personal problems and his star rookie is an unprofessional child who deserves public humiliation by his coach - that explains the 5-22 record, doesn't it...

Jesus. People have come unhinged.

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

Jesus. People have come unhinged.

It's no surprise though, really. This is easily the most disappointing and frustrating season in Sacramento Kings history. Throw in the looming arena problems and you've got a recipe for very, very cranky fans.

 

[hrdboild]

It's no surprise though, really. This is easily the most disappointing and frustrating season in Sacramento Kings history. Throw in the looming arena problems and you've got a recipe for very, very cranky fans.

I think that has a lot to do with it. It's the off-court circumstances with the unresolved arena issue and the generally poor economic climate which is exacerbating a disappointing start to a basketball season and turning it into something more ominous. From a purely on-court point of view what I've seen this year still beats that 2005-2009 period where you knew the team was doomed from the get-go because our star players weren't really stars and they were only getting older and more fragile year-to-year. The basketball has been bad, but not hopelessly so. They're doing a lot right they're just doing even more wrong right now. But they're all young and they're getting better at putting themselves in position to win, if not the actual winning part.

 

[ParniValjak]

He shouldn't have asked for permission. He should know better. As long as the details can't be disclosed he should've just kept his mouth shut and not said anything. Making this public was more an excuse for himself than for Tyreke. Poor Westphal, his star sophomore is having personal problems and his star rookie is an unprofessional child who deserves public humiliation by his coach - that explains the 5-22 record, doesn't it...

It is NOBODY'S business what the issue is. Its obviously a private matter. He told the team about it and they know. It does NOT need to be aired in public. All we know is that there is an issue, we don't know what it is and quite frankly we really shouldn't care!

I am sure you would be thrilled if you told your employer about your personal issues only to find out that they have blabbed about it to the stakeholders!

They came out and said there is an issue. We really do not need to know what it is exactly. If Tyreke wants to keep it private, that is his choice and people should respect that. He doesn't own anyone to tell them what the issue is.

Sceptics will say there is nothing, its just another PR spin. Others will say it explains some things, and some will just not care but one thing is certain, no one needs to know what the issue is.

 

[bajaden]

He said he asked Tyreke and he said it was ok to say something.

Thats not the point. Because he gives you permission doesn't mean he should have revealed it. I think it was important for Westphal to know, but not necessarily the public. Tyreke is a kid, and Westphal is suspossed to be the wise one. But it is what it is, and now everyone is having a high old time discussing it. And we don't even know what It is.

 

[Asaf]

It is NOBODY'S business what the issue is. Its obviously a private matter. He told the team about it and they know. It does NOT need to be aired in public. All we know is that there is an issue, we don't know what it is and quite frankly we really shouldn't care!

I am sure you would be thrilled if you told your employer about your personal issues only to find out that they have blabbed about it to the stakeholders!

They came out and said there is an issue. We really do not need to know what it is exactly. If Tyreke wants to keep it private, that is his choice and people should respect that. He doesn't own anyone to tell them what the issue is.

Sceptics will say there is nothing, its just another PR spin. Others will say it explains some things, and some will just not care but one thing is certain, no one needs to know what the issue is.

Read my post again. I said that PW should've kept his mouth shut and not said anything in the first place. And yes, when someone says "I have problems but I can't tell you what they are, and that's why I'm ****ing up" it will always sound like an excuse, unless you are looking for reasons to let him off the hook. If you can't say what the problem is, by all means, don't say it, but also have the decency to not say anything at all and not use that as an excuse. Tyreke did the right thing by telling Westphal because he told him what it was about. But if Westphal can't disclose the details he shouldn't have gone public with it in the first place.

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

Thats not the point. Because he gives you permission doesn't mean he should have revealed it. I think it was important for Westphal to know, but not necessarily the public. Tyreke is a kid, and Westphal is suspossed to be the wise one. But it is what it is, and now everyone is having a high old time discussing it. And we don't even know what It is.

Since when is 21 a kid? I mean really. At 21, you're old enough to legally do anything that's legal. You're an adult at 21. A young adult, but an adult. If Tyreke told Westphal it was OK to say something, then let's put the accountability for that where it should be, on Tyreke. At the very least, they're both to blame.

 

[kennadog]

There are many, many, many things that can go on in people's lives that are extremely difficult to deal with and can affect someone's job performance. No matter how well they think they are coping. Maybe Tyreke should have said something to someone in the organization sooner, but some things are intensely personal. Some people can even feel ashamed of certain problems or feel its an admission of weakness to say they're having trouble coping with something. Unfortunately, those feelings are generally supported by public attitudes. As though people are supposed to be superheroes who can do it all despite the most disastrous events in their personal lives.

I suspect Evans has an attitude generally, that admitting to problems such as he is having (whatever they are) is very, very difficult. Its like an admission of inadequacy or failure.Of course, its not. Its simply human. Reading the opinions of some here, you can easily see what keeps people from admitting they're having trouble coping with a serious issue. It automatically subjects a person to serious criticism or even name-calling. Accusations of weakness, childishness, selfishness are flying all over in here.

Just at a time when a person deserves some understanding, they get scorn and criticism, which only makes a burden even harder to bear. It certainly makes a person wish they'd kept their mouth shut. And you can't understand why he didn't say something sooner? I bet right about now, Tyreke may wish he'd never said anything. As I said earlier, hopefully the people in the organization and his teammates have his back. He never needed their support more than right now. I think he deserves a little more understanding from fans as well, but that's just me. Its no one's business what's going on in Tyreke's life. But he has my support for his hopefully getting through it okay.

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

There are many, many, many things that can go on in people's lives that are extremely difficult to deal with and can affect someone's job performance. No matter how well they think they are coping. Maybe Tyreke should have said something to someone in the organization sooner, but some things are intensely personal. Some people can even feel ashamed of certain problems or feel its an admission of weakness to say they're having trouble coping with something. Unfortunately, those feelings are generally supported by public attitudes. As though people are supposed to be superheroes who can do it all despite the most disastrous events in their personal lives.

I suspect Evans has an attitude generally, that admitting to problems such as he is having (whatever they are) is very, very difficult. Its like an admission of inadequacy or failure.Of course, its not. Its simply human. Reading the opinions of some here, you can easily see what keeps people from admitting they're having trouble coping with a serious issue. It automatically subjects a person to serious criticism or even name-calling. Accusations of weakness, childishness, selfishness are flying all over in here.

Just at a time when a person deserves some understanding, they get scorn and criticism, which only makes a burden even harder to bear. It certainly makes a person wish they'd kept their mouth shut. And you can't understand why he didn't say something sooner? I bet right about now, Tyreke may wish he'd never said anything. As I said earlier, hopefully the people in the organization and his teammates have his back. He never needed their support more than right now. I think he deserves a little more understanding from fans as well, but that's just me.

Good points. Personally, i don't think that criticism and support are necessarily mutually exclusive, but It's nice you can offer an opposing view without being a condescending jerk about it.

 

[kennadog]

Since when is 21 a kid? I mean really. At 21, you're old enough to legally do anything that's legal. You're an adult at 21. A young adult, but an adult. If Tyreke told Westphal it was OK to say something, then let's put the accountability for that where it should be, on Tyreke. At the very least, they're both to blame.

Well, I thought I was an adult at 21. Probably thought it much earlier than that. Being 60 changes that view. I've met people who were very mature at 15. Some people never really so seem to behave in an adfult manner. It's really hard to put any chronological age on it, but I'd generally say most 21-year-olds aren't as mature as they think. And most 21 year olds aren't exposed to the kind of world NBA players are. Especially the scrutiny, the living in a fish bowl aspect. I'm sure glad the world wasn't judging every move and decision I made at 21.

 

[Kingster]

I quite agree that there's no obligation on anyone's part to report problems that may be off the court, unless of course they're crimimal. And I think this thing is being blown way out of proportion. In fact, I think Westphal did Tyreke a disservice by saying what he said. Its another thing that should have stayed in house. But he did say what he said, and here we are as fans arguing over something we really know nothing about. The result of that is speculation by some people that are ill-equiped, and some of who should probably be in theropy themselves.

If we put this aside, and step back and look at the bigger picture, the whole thing is a mess. And all the Cousins talk, and now the Tyreke talk does, is take the spotlight off the bigger problems with this team. I've been a Kings fan from day one, and I can't remember a bigger mess than the one right now. Even when we set the all time record for road losses in a row, it didn't seem this bad. I'm done pointing fingers for a while. All I can do now is hope that Petrie, and Westphal can figure out how to start over and get the ship going in the right direction. I think it would behove Westphal to keep his disciplinary actions off the front page of the Bee. Things need to calm down,and they won't if we keep reading some new piece of BS every other day.

The problem is, that Cousins and Tyreke are the bigger problems of this team. Personally, I'd rather know something about those problems rather than being kept in the dark.

 

[kennadog]

Good points. Personally, i don't think that criticism and support are necessarily mutually exclusive, but It's nice you can offer an opposing view without being a condescending jerk about it.

They aren't necessarily mutually exclusive. In fact, sometimes the right kind of criticism is a form of support. But there are times when people just need to can the criticism for a while and not add to the other person's pain. I do try not to be a condescending jerk. Its more likely to happen if I post too fast when I'm angry.

 

[ParniValjak]

Read my post again. I said that PW should've kept his mouth shut and not said anything in the first place. And yes, when someone says "I have problems but I can't tell you what they are, and that's why I'm ****ing up" it will always sound like an excuse, unless you are looking for reasons to let him off the hook. If you can't say what the problem is, by all means, don't say it, but also have the decency to not say anything at all and not use that as an excuse. Tyreke did the right thing by telling Westphal because he told him what it was about. But if Westphal can't disclose the details he shouldn't have gone public with it in the first place.

I think that if there is a problem he has an obligation to the fans and ticketholders to come out and say that there is a problem. So I have no issues with that part. People that pay the tickets to go and support this team deserve to know if there is something thats impacting Tyreke's performance. However, they do not have the right to know what it is, especially as its a private matter. This is where we disagree.

I don't have a problem with Westphal coming out and making it a public knowledge that there is something going on. I think the team owes that to the fans and ticket holders. I also happen to think that its nobody's business to know what the issue is. Its obviously a private matter that should be kept within the circle. This is where you and I disagree on this. Some see it as excuse making because there have been a few porkies told along the way.

All I am saying is that if there genuinely is something that is affecting the player then the fans and ticketholders need to know but thats as far as it goes. They do not need to know what it is if it is a private matter because that part of it is none of their business.

 

[Dr. Spaceman]

Good points. Personally, i don't think that criticism and support are necessarily mutually exclusive, but It's nice you can offer an opposing view without being a condescending jerk about it.

Yeah, wouldn't it be nice? What a hypocrite.

Perhaps you could wrap your head around the idea that sometimes, in writing, folks make mistakes. Only the most anal retentive make a habit of correcting other people’s grammar.
Not to mention, if you weren’t able to glean that affect meant effect, that makes you the idiot, not me.

If I weren't able to understand what you were actually trying to say in the first place, I would've missed the mistake and never pointed it out. There are tons of mistakes being made in this thread and others, and I’m sure they’re in mine as well. I notice, but glance over them because I definitely understand mistakes are made. I just have a tendency to point them out to cut down a-holes when they presume to speak from a position of intelligence and are tragically wrong about it. It's a problem that I have.

My, don’t we get fussy when we don’t get the answers we want. I’m having no trouble at all. Despite what you may think, your post wasn’t exactly complex. You’re as transparent as glass. You made an irrelevant point about how I was projecting my expectations onto society and I pointed out how the same could be said of anyone who thinks there’s something wrong, with anything. Pretty simple stuff. Obviously not simple enough for you, though. If you don't like that other folks can answer you in the way they see fit, then I'd say you have some control issues. Might want to seek some help about that. And "reasonable member of society"? LOL, I'd love to hear your criteria for that. I'm betting, it isn't exactly reasonable.

At what point did I say anything remotely along the lines of “anyone who thinks differently from me is wrong”? Again, I was not making a blanket statement. The statement was specific to you. Your opinion is wrong, in my opinion. You obviously have trouble reconciling when someone points that out to you and think it to be a much grander statement than it really was. I have absolutely no problems with all of the different viewpoints in here or anywhere else. It’s only when they’re wrong and going overboard with getting that wrong viewpoint out (which you are) that I confront. You were projecting, and what you were projecting specifically was wrong. Nothing more, nothing less. I wasn’t making a statement about anyone else. If you can’t deal with someone telling you that you’re wrong, then I’d say you have some control issues.

By the way, the criteria for a reasoned viewpoint on the situation can be found in the ENTIRE post that you quoted after that statement. Must’ve missed it in your blind rage over someone telling you that you’re wrong. I don’t presume to speak on this criteria as fact though – it’s obviously my own opinion on the situation. But there are quite a few people in here stating similar views, and quite a bit fewer similar to yours. The point is simply that you’re drawing out this whole indignation at Tyreke’s mistake a little too long and far for a basketball player trying to deal with real world problems. It’s unreasonable.

Good for you. You want a medal? You backed off at that point and I didn’t. That’s because...News flash...we’re different people. Unlike you though, I’m perfectly content with other folks not thinking about things exactly as I do.

Again, I have no issues with people thinking differently than me. I only take issue with people who are out and out wrong in my own view. I happen to think you’re wrong. Different does not = wrong in my world, however much you may want to believe in the contrary. So again, it’s not a blanket statement upon the greater whole of society. But if you want to associate the word “different” with “petty and overbearing,” that’s fine.

There is no distinction the way I see it. He was either irresponsible and selfish in how he handled it, or he wasn’t. There’s no “gray area” to it for me.

Why’re you regurgitating my exact point for me? I said that you think this situation is black and white – that it’s an either/or situation. And you’re telling me that “yes, it’s either he was selfish or he wasn’t.” I already knew that about you and told you about it. And I’m telling you again that I think you’re wrong. There is definitely a gray area to it. It’s called “being able to separate the real world from the fantasy world of sports entertainment.” Understand that he is young and unseasoned as a professional at anything and that he hopefully learned from his mistake. He obviously didn’t think it was right to reveal his personal issue as an excuse for his play (he said so himself) and probably didn’t think he would or maybe should get the support from his employer. Hope he gets everything better sooner rather than later and get back to playing basketball.

Nice, so you presume to speak for the coach. Because you know what he’s said to Tyreke behind closed doors, right? I bet He said “Hey, no big deal Tyreke, it’s just a damn game. Don’t worry about it, bro”.

Right, because I said that. It couldn’t possibly be because Westphal came out at the press conference and revealed the existence of an issue for Tyreke and was being protective about it. No way anyone could get the impression that he’s supportive of him in light of said external issues and the timing of its revelation.

And the President? Really??? Can you say..red herring? LOL.

Red herring’s one of your favorite phrases, isn’t it? You’ve thrown it out more than once, and every time it’s been used incorrectly. Like I said before, you should get a handle on what these big boy words mean before you use them outside of your remedial high school English class. The relevance of the President statement was that you were (and still are) treating Tyreke’s misstep with an importance and air of egregiousness that is pretty far beyond the appropriate context. Again, we’re talking about someone’s life versus his day job as an entertainer. The reasoned among us can understand that distinction and can just allow him his mistake of timing and hope he gets his life in order so he can get back to entertaining (because how he’s playing right now is far from it). You cannot or refuse to do so. You consider yourself just different in this case. I consider you wrong. Simple as that.

Anyway, I want to apologize to everyone else in here for taking it as far as I have. We’ve really gotten way too far off base and out of hand. This is going to be my last post on the topic as the situation stands currently, because we’ve said far too much for how little information there actually is right now.

 

[Asaf]

I think that if there is a problem he has an obligation to the fans and ticketholders to come out and say that there is a problem. So I have no issues with that part. People that pay the tickets to go and support this team deserve to know if there is something thats impacting Tyreke's performance. However, they do not have the right to know what it is, especially as its a private matter. This is where we disagree.

I don't have a problem with Westphal coming out and making it a public knowledge that there is something going on. I think the team owes that to the fans and ticket holders. I also happen to think that its nobody's business to know what the issue is. Its obviously a private matter that should be kept within the circle. This is where you and I disagree on this. Some see it as excuse making because there have been a few porkies told along the way.

All I am saying is that if there genuinely is something that is affecting the player then the fans and ticketholders need to know but thats as far as it goes. They do not need to know what it is if it is a private matter because that part of it is none of their business.

Correct me if I'm wrong (and I certainly may be wrong as I am not an expert on each NBA player's history) but I don't recall ever hearing a player, especially a franchise player, saying something of this sort to the public. Every player experienced personal problems in his career. Kobe, LeBron, Barkley, Malone - you name them. They either told the public about their problems or kept it to themselves, but I don't remember anyone giving these problems as an excuse (or explanation, depending on how you view it) for poor performance on court, without saying what the problem is. This just opens the ground for speculation and debate between the "camp" who thinks its a valid explanation and those who think it's an excuse. And the opinions of each camp, I suspect, are largely influenced by how they feel about Tyreke in general. I am pretty sure for example, that most people on this board would most likely not be as understanding if it was Landry who explained his poor play with mysterious "personal problems", and threads calling to trade him would still pop up every other day.

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

Yeah, wouldn't it be nice? What a hypocrite.

As a rule, I treat folks as they treat me. If I’m treating someone in a condescending manner, I suggest they take a gander in the mirror.

I just have a tendency to point them out to cut down a-holes when they presume to speak from a position of intelligence and are tragically wrong about it. It's a problem that I have.

You’d accomplish more and look like less of a twit if instead, you just pointed out exactly what you think is wrong and why. Folks will generally respond better to that than to childish grammar policing.

At what point did I say anything remotely along the lines of “anyone who thinks differently from me is wrong”?

Couldn’t tell you, which is why I never claimed you said that.

Your opinion is wrong, in my opinion.

Yes, that’s clear. What’s not clear, is what exactly about my opinion is wrong and why you think it’s wrong. If instead of posturing, you’d offer some insight into that, we could have discussed it rather than bicker like school kids. But it’s your call, I’m just following your queue.

ou obviously have trouble reconciling when someone points that out to you and think it to be a much grander statement than it really was.

Again, I made no claims that you were making a grander statement.

I have absolutely no problems with all of the different viewpoints in here or anywhere else. It’s only when they’re wrong and going overboard with getting that wrong viewpoint out (which you are) that I confront.

Translation: I have no problems with any of the viewpoints that I agree with. Well...duh.

You were projecting, and what you were projecting specifically was wrong. Nothing more, nothing less.

Yes, I get that you think it was wrong. If we’re to have any type of intelligent debate about it though, you need to offer some insight into why you think it’s wrong. A trained parrot can say “you’re wrong”.

I wasn’t making a statement about anyone else. If you can’t deal with someone telling you that you’re wrong, then I’d say you have some control issues.

I never claimed you were making the statement about anyone else. I can deal perfectly well with someone telling me I’m wrong. However, if they lack the articulation to say anything beyond “you’re wrong” I’m probably not going to take them that seriously.

But there are quite a few people in here stating similar views, and quite a bit fewer similar to yours.

Nice argumentum ad populum. I see you don’t limit yourself to just one logical fallacy.

By the way, the criteria for a reasoned viewpoint on the situation can be found in the ENTIRE post that you quoted after that statement . .

No I saw it, I just don’t agree that there’s anything reasoned about it.

I don't presume to speak on this criteria as fact though – it's obviously my own opinion on the situation

That’s nice. Nor do I. Hey, we do have something in common.

I have no issues with people thinking differently than me. I only take issue with people who are out and out wrong in my own view.

LOL. Wow. So, you have no issues with people thinking different than you unless you think that they’re wrong as well. So in other words, you’re ok with people thinking different than you if you think they’re right. But if you think they’re right, it’s odd they’d be thinking much differently than you.

Why’re you regurgitating my exact point for me? I said that you think this situation is black and white – that it’s an either/or situation. And you’re telling me that “yes, it’s either he was selfish or he wasn’t.” I already knew that about you and told you about it.

If you already knew that, you weren’t showing it. You said that I couldn’t make the distinction. So, I responded by clarifying that I don’t think there’s a distinction to be made. Not being able to make a distinction is different from there not being a distinction to be made...Still confused?

There is definitely a gray area to it. It’s called “being able to separate the real world from the fantasy world of sports entertainment.” Understand that he is young and unseasoned as a professional at anything and that he hopefully learned from his mistake. He obviously didn’t think it was right to reveal his personal issue as an excuse for his play (he said so himself) and probably didn’t think he would or maybe should get the support from his employer. Hope he gets everything better sooner rather than later and get back to playing basketball.

You call those gray areas, I call them excuses.

Right, because I said that

You said “and he can see that getting someone’s personal life in order lies on a plane far above and beyond how well he can put a ball through a hoop on a daily basis. So if those directly affected by him can let it go, why can’t you do the same”. That seems like speaking for the coach to me. You presumed that the coach “let it go” and that he can see that “getting someone's personal life in order lies on a plane far above and beyond how well he can put a ball through a hoop on a daily basis”. You don’t know what went on behind closed doors regarding the matter. It’s foolish to assume that you can glean the coach’s perspective merely from his public comments.

Red herring’s one of your favorite phrases, isn’t it? You’ve thrown it out more than once

And I’ll keep throwing it out, whenever its appropriate.

and every time it’s been used incorrectly

I’m beginning to see a pattern here. It goes. You’re wrong, that’s incorrect, etc. followed by...nothing. Unless you can cite specific instances where I used red herring incorrectly, articulate why it was incorrect, and provide an example of correct usage, you’re just blowing smoke.

Like I said before, you should get a handle on what these big boy words mean before you use them outside of your remedial high school English class.

Attacking grammar, feeble attempts at condescension, making assumptions about one’s age, etc. You’re showing all the classic signs of an internet blowhard with more hubris than sense. What’s next...I live in my mom’s basement?

The relevance of the President statement was that you were (and still are) treating Tyreke’s misstep with an importance and air of egregiousness that is pretty far beyond the appropriate context.

That all depends on how one defines “appropriate context”. If you’re suggesting that I was implying that basketball is as important as the president’s job, well, that would be a strawman argument...Queues Dr. Spaceman saying that I don’t know what a strawman argument is.

Again, we’re talking about someone’s life versus his day job as an entertainer.

Introducing his personal life is another red herring. It has nothing to do with whether he had an obligation to inform his employers regarding something that was keeping him from performing up to par. Make excuses all you want, they don’t relieve him of that responsibility.

The reasoned among us can understand that distinction and can just allow him his mistake of timing and hope he gets his life in order so he can get back to entertaining (because how he’s playing right now is far from it). You cannot or refuse to do so. You consider yourself just different in this case. I consider you wrong. Simple as that.

You’re being disingenuous there by lumping in “hope he gets his life in order so he can get back to entertaining (because how he's playing right now is far from it” with “understand that distinction and can just allow him his mistake” as if the two are mutually inclusive. They aren’t. I certainly hope he gets better or that the situation he’s dealing with improves and I’ve indicate that in previous posts.

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

I notice a lot of folks are trying to minimize Tyreke's duties by saying "it's just putting a ball through a hoop" or something to that effect. I think that's either disingenuous, or just plain ignorant. It's a bit more than "just putting a ball through a hoop". There's people's jobs on the line, people's reputations at risk, fan loyalty hanging in the balance, millions of dollars at stake, etc. in addition to "putting the ball through the hoop". Let's not pretend that this is just a playground game with no real world repercussions.