The Stubborn Refusal to Address Defense in the Sacto Era

Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
So time for me to "crowdsource" some numbers for the ole front office too.

A few years back, I made a somewhat similar thread. Same theme, but I used more stats. :) The defensive trend has continued on and on and on and ON however, and so I thought I would try a new flavor on the same theme.

Hypothesis: The only period in nearly 30 years of Kings basketball that the Sacramento Kings were any good exactly correlates to the only period in nearly 30 years that the coach/team focused on playing some defense. In every other period the Kings have been pathetic defensively, and have gotten pathetic results.

Not so subtle argument: Therefore, continuing to ignore defense in favor of offense would be a sign of front office/coaching stupidity historically speaking nearly guaranteed to make them losers, just like all of the other losers who Kings fans have suffered over the years.

Looking at the entire defensive history of the Sacramento Kings through the prism of DRTG (essentially a measure of points given up per 100 possessions), which is less odious in a team setting then an individual setting, and which is normalized for pace (and I will include rankings to also help account for era).

2013-14 DRTG: 108.8 (23rd of 30), Record: 28-54 .341, Playoffs: No, Coach: Malone
2012-13 DRTG: 111.4 (29th of 30), Record: 28-54 .341, Playoffs: No, Coach: Smart
2011-12 DRTG: 109.8 (29th of 30), Record: 22-44 .333, Playoffs: No, Coach: Westphal/Smart
2010-11 DRTG: 109.0 (20th of 30), Record: 24-58 .293, Playoffs: No, Coach: Westphal
2009-10 DRTG: 109.9 (20th of 30), Record: 25-57 .305, Playoffs: No, Coach: Westphal
2008-09 DRTG: 114.7 (30th of 30), Record: 17-65 .207, Playoffs: No, Coach: Theus/Natt
2007-08 DRTG: 109.9 (25th of 30), Record: 38-44 .463, Playoffs: No, Coach: Theus
2006-07 DRTG: 108.0 (22nd of 30), Record: 33-49 .402, Playoffs: No, Coach: Musselman
2005-06 DRTG: 105.0 (12th of 30), Record: 44-38 .537, Playoffs: Yes, Coach: Adelman
2004-05 DRTG: 108.2 (23rd of 30), Record: 50-32 .610, Playoffs: Yes, Coach: Adelman
2003-04 DRTG: 104.9 (21st of 29), Record: 55-27 .671, Playoffs: Yes, Coach: Adelman
2002-03 DRTG: 99.1 (2nd of 29), Record: 59-23 .720, Playoffs: Yes, Coach: Adelman
2001-02 DRTG: 101.1 (6th of 29), Record: 61-21 .744, Playoffs: Yes, Coach: Adelman
2000-01 DRTG: 99.6 (7th of 29), Record: 55-27 .671, Playoffs: Yes, Coach: Adelman
1999-00 DRTG: 102.1 (10th of 29), Record: 44-38 .537, Playoffs: Yes, Coach: Adelman
1998-99 DRTG: 103.1 (18th of 29), Record: 27-23 .540, Playoffs: Yes, Coach: Adelman
1997-98 DRTG: 106.9 (22nd of 29), Record: 27-55 .329, Playoffs: No, Coach: Jordan
1996-97 DRTG: 108.7 (21st of 29), Record: 34-48 .415, Playoffs: No, Coach: St. Jean/Jordan
1995-96 DRTG: 109.1 (19th of 29), Record: 39-43 .476, Playoffs: Yes, Coach: St. Jean
1994-95 DRTG: 106.5 (11th of 27), Record: 39-43 .476, Playoffs: No, Coach: St. Jean
1993-94 DRTG: 109.2 (21st of 27), Record: 28-54 .341, Playoffs: No, Coach: St. Jean
1992-93 DRTG: 109.6 (18th of 27), Record: 25-57 .305, Playoffs: No, Coach: St. Jean
1991-92 DRTG: 109.9 (21st of 27), Record: 29-53 .354, Playoffs: No, Coach: Motta/Hughes
1990-91 DRTG: 109.1 (19th of 27), Record: 25-57 .305, Playoffs: No, Coach: Motta
1989-90 DRTG: 110.0 (23rd of 27), Record: 23-59 .280, Playoffs: No, Coach: Reynolds/Motta
1988-89 DRTG: 110.0 (21st of 25), Record: 27-55 .329, Playoffs: No, Coach: Reynolds
1987-88 DRTG: 112.1 (21st of 23), Record: 24-58 .293, Playoffs: No, Coach: Russell/Reynolds
1986-87 DRTG: 112.1 (22nd of 23), Record: 29-53 .354, Playoffs: No, Coach: Johnson/Reynolds
1985-86 DRTG: 109.2 (19th of 23), Record: 37-45 .451, Playoffs: Yes, Coach: Johnson


Funny thing happens when you resort that list by DRTG. Watch the correlation with playoffs and record:

2002-03 DRTG: 99.1 (2nd of 29), Record: 59-23 .720, Playoffs: Yes, Coach: Adelman
2000-01 DRTG: 99.6 (7th of 29), Record: 55-27 .671, Playoffs: Yes, Coach: Adelman
2001-02 DRTG: 101.1 (6th of 29), Record: 61-21 .744, Playoffs: Yes, Coach: Adelman
1999-00 DRTG: 102.1 (10th of 29), Record: 44-38 .537, Playoffs: Yes, Coach: Adelman
1998-99 DRTG: 103.1 (18th of 29), Record: 27-23 .540, Playoffs: Yes, Coach: Adelman
2003-04 DRTG: 104.9 (21st of 29), Record: 55-27 .671, Playoffs: Yes, Coach: Adelman
2005-06 DRTG: 105.0 (12th of 30), Record: 44-38 .537, Playoffs: Yes, Coach: Adelman
1994-95 DRTG: 106.5 (11th of 27), Record: 39-43 .476, Playoffs: No, Coach: St. Jean
1997-98 DRTG: 106.9 (22nd of 29), Record: 27-55 .329, Playoffs: No, Coach: Jordan
2006-07 DRTG: 108.0 (22nd of 30), Record: 33-49 .402, Playoffs: No, Coach: Musselman
2004-05 DRTG: 108.2 (23rd of 30), Record: 50-32 .610, Playoffs: Yes, Coach: Adelman
1996-97 DRTG: 108.7 (21st of 29), Record: 34-48 .415, Playoffs: No, Coach: St. Jean/Jordan
2013-14 DRTG: 108.8 (23rd of 30), Record: 28-54 .341, Playoffs: No, Coach: Malone
2010-11 DRTG: 109.0 (20th of 30), Record: 24-58 .293, Playoffs: No, Coach: Westphal
1995-96 DRTG: 109.1 (19th of 29), Record: 39-43 .476, Playoffs: Yes, Coach: St. Jean
1990-91 DRTG: 109.1 (19th of 27), Record: 25-57 .305, Playoffs: No, Coach: Motta
1985-86 DRTG: 109.2 (19th of 23), Record: 37-45 .451, Playoffs: Yes, Coach: Johnson
1993-94 DRTG: 109.2 (21st of 27), Record: 28-54 .341, Playoffs: No, Coach: St. Jean
1992-93 DRTG: 109.6 (18th of 27), Record: 25-57 .305, Playoffs: No, Coach: St. Jean
2011-12 DRTG: 109.8 (29th of 30), Record: 22-44 .333, Playoffs: No, Coach: Westphal/Smart
1991-92 DRTG: 109.9 (21st of 27), Record: 29-53 .354, Playoffs: No, Coach: Motta/Hughes
2009-10 DRTG: 109.9 (20th of 30), Record: 25-57 .305, Playoffs: No, Coach: Westphal
2007-08 DRTG: 109.9 (25th of 30), Record: 38-44 .463, Playoffs: No, Coach: Theus
1989-90 DRTG: 110.0 (23rd of 27), Record: 23-59 .280, Playoffs: No, Coach: Reynolds/Motta
1988-89 DRTG: 110.0 (21st of 25), Record: 27-55 .329, Playoffs: No, Coach: Reynolds
2012-13 DRTG: 111.4 (29th of 30), Record: 28-54 .341, Playoffs: No, Coach: Smart
1987-88 DRTG: 112.1 (21st of 23), Record: 24-58 .293, Playoffs: No, Coach: Russell/Reynolds
1986-87 DRTG: 112.1 (22nd of 23), Record: 29-53 .354, Playoffs: No, Coach: Johnson/Reynolds
2008-09 DRTG: 114.7 (30th of 30), Record: 17-65 .207, Playoffs: No, Coach: Theus/Natt


No, I have no idea how Theus got that record with that defense that one year either. Otherwise, I am sure there is a human a calculator around here who would join in identifying some correlation. And ye the beat goes on. Best defense is a good offense. Here's another offensive player. And another. Did you see how he can shoot? etc. etc. and etc.

P.S. Yes the color coding does mean that we have been in the top 1/3 of the league in defense exactly 3 times in 29 years. Impressive.
 
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Preaching to the choir here, Bricky...

...Maybe send some of these numbers off to our Gerbil friend. :p
 
It sure is puzzling no doubt about the incompetency of our past front offices not giving any care for defense, I mean I honestly can't remember the last time the Kings had a interior defensive presence besides a one year rental of Dalembert. It's interesting to think about the last time Sacramento was in the playoffs and they had Ron and Bonzi punishing people and playing defense too.
 
Just to play devil's advocate, wouldn't a list sorted by ORTG-DRTG ranking show a more accurate correlation (for all teams, not just the Kings)? In other words, good team make a lot of points per possession and limit opponent's point per possession. I'd assume elite offense + ok defense should provide similar results as elite defense + ok offense.
 
Well, the only guy who seems the least bit concerned with defense within our organization is our coach, who appears heavily outnumbered on that topic while everyone else gets all hot and bothered by these sexy shooters and fun-loving smallball.

An issue is that to have a good defensive team, you've got to make quite an effort to get that defensive team in place. It's acquiring the right defensive players at the right positions, having clear roles and having a coach who preaches defense, along with a sound strategy. Just as being a run and gun team take quite a bit of effort. You need to make a concerted effort to put together a roster which resembles GS/Den/Pho of old.

None of it happens by accident.

We're of course putting more effort into the latter than we are the former.

Outgoing defenders under PDA:
Reke
Douglas
Aldrich
Passed on Robin Lopez who was sent to us, instead sent him to Portland where his defense was key
Mbah a Moute
Salmons-yeah, he'd be our best backcourt defender right now

Incoming poor defenders:
Vasquez
Landry
DWill
Ben
Acy-scrappy, physical, but poor defender
Evans-maybe the one incoming plus defender under PDA's reign
Stauskas

We can sit here and hope it changes in the coming weeks, and yes, some of these moves were about clearing out bad contracts/getting Rudy, but there's a clear as day pattern here.

Offense first, worry about defense later, whenever later arrives.
 
They will preach team defense. Until we keep losing then they will say we need better defensive players. Then we will sign some Mbah a Moute or James Johnson level player, our offense will struggle under coach's lack of offensive creativity, we'll go after offensive players and preach team defence. Rinse and repeat.
 
Maybe I am reading too much into this but what concerns me is that even the shotblockers we have been linked to (Smith) are primarily offensive players. Is it a case of sure we will get a shot blocker as long as they are also offensively gifted? Its seems like Geoff Petrie all over again. The problem of course is that its limits us even further with putting together a defensive unit. The guy must be a PF because the front office does not think Cousins could guard strech 4s, but he also must have offensive game. The problem is there are maybe 2-3 guys in the entire legue that fit that description and neither of those will be given up by their teams. Especially with what we have to offer.
 
Čarolija said:
Maybe I am reading too much into this but what concerns me is that even the shotblockers we have been linked to (Smith) are primarily offensive players. Is it a case of sure we will get a shot blocker as long as they are also offensively gifted? Its seems like Geoff Petrie all over again. The problem of course is that its limits us even further with putting together a defensive unit. The guy must be a PF because the front office does not think Cousins could guard strech 4s, but he also must have offensive game. The problem is there are maybe 2-3 guys in the entire legue that fit that description and neither of those will be given up by their teams. Especially with what we have to offer.
Click to expand...

Doesn't that go a long way towards explaining why PDA hasn't done the impossible yet?

I could easily be wrong, but it seems like we want perfect players that exist only in NBA2K?? ...
 
VF21 said:
Doesn't that go a long way towards explaining why PDA hasn't done the impossible yet?

I could easily be wrong, but it seems like we want perfect players that exist only in NBA2K?? ...
Click to expand...

No, I think he was saying that PDA wants perfect players who only exist in NBA2K. Many of the rest of realize that more offense is a stupid goal at this point, and its perfectly acceptable to have a pure defensive roleplayer or two who may never score 20ppg in his life. In fact most good teams have them. We almost never do. Hence a reason we are never good.
 
Bricklayer said:
No, I think he was saying that PDA wants perfect players who only exist in NBA2K. Many of the rest of realize that more offense is a stupid goal at this point, and its perfectly acceptable to have a pure defensive roleplayer or two who may never score 20ppg in his life. In fact most good teams have them. We almost never do. Hence a reason we are never good.
Click to expand...

I listen to Vivek talk about basketball and I just don't get the feeling that he totally understands roster construction in today's NBA. He speaks like an uneducated fan that likes to watch fun, fast paced hoops. It's why I'd like him less involved in basketball operations while still bring his leadership and personality to the other, public facing parts of the organization.
 
macadocious said:
If they bring in a defensive 4 and PG, what will you think then?
Click to expand...

I will naturally assume they read my thread here, went OHHHHHH!!!!! Why didn't WE think of that??? and promptly corrected course. :p


There is still hope. I am not unaware that we were pursuing Iggy last year. Although that may just have been because Gerbil knew him and Vivek heard his franchise...oh wait...his former franchise was looking at him. I said at the time and still say they were Nuggets and Warriors at that point, understandably. There was the daft Josh Smith rumor. Boston did some very weird stuff on draft night, and I really wonder about Rondo or Bradley being truly available. There was the Knight rumor in Milwaulkee, and you have to winder about the pothead joining in any such deal. I've pondered the possibility of Indiana seeing IT as the key to taking a next jump, as they need more offense. And a sign and trade for Hill might be the trick. There's theoretical possibilities. But the next move of that type this new crew, or hell any crew in the last 10 years, makes will be the first.
 
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sdballer said:
I listen to Vivek talk about basketball and I just don't get the feeling that he totally understands roster construction in today's NBA. He speaks like an uneducated fan that likes to watch fun, fast paced hoops. It's why I'd like him less involved in basketball operations while still bring his leadership and personality to the other, public facing parts of the organization.
Click to expand...

Vivek is a new owner, but he's our owner. He's willing to spend money and I do not think he's a stupid man. If he suffers a few growing pains in the next season or two, I can live with it. Maybe with age comes more patience?
 
vivek.png


vivek2.png


vivek3.png


gerbil.png
 
Pete has to bring in a starting quality defender at the 4/5 before JT and/or Reggie Evans can be traded. I do not want to start the season With Cousins to be tasked with guarding the Best Big on the opposing team. A quality wing defender would be nice to.

Remember that one game last season when
i

Luc Richard Mbah a Moute

Shut down Chris Paul? That was the best defensive highlight since Ron Artest was here. And that ladies and Gentlemen is pretty damn sad!
 
Bricklayer said:
No, I think he was saying that PDA wants perfect players who only exist in NBA2K. Many of the rest of realize that more offense is a stupid goal at this point, and its perfectly acceptable to have a pure defensive roleplayer or two who may never score 20ppg in his life. In fact most good teams have them. We almost never do. Hence a reason we are never good.
Click to expand...
Precisely! We seems to be interested only in those defensive players that are also offensively skilled, hence greatly limiting our ability to improve defensively where as great teams go after players that defend first and anything else is a bonus! e.g. Attitude and other issues aside, if this FO had a choice they would always pick a Josh Smith type over Tyson Chandler or Larry Sanders type because they want this myth of positionless basketball where everyone can shoot and score!
 
Čarolija said:
Precisely! We seems to be interested only in those defensive players that are also offensively skilled, hence greatly limiting our ability to improve defensively where as great teams go after players that defend first and anything else is a bonus! e.g. Attitude and other issues aside, if this FO had a choice they would always pick a Josh Smith type over Tyson Chandler or Larry Sanders type because they want this myth of positionless basketball where everyone can shoot and score!
Click to expand...
Off course you would Josh Smith brings playmaking as well as defence, Sanders/Chandler possess zero playmaking, Smith is on the same level of playmaking as Cousins imo (he obviously does not get doubled like Cuz). Smith has a position that's PF he's being played out of position in Detroit and cause of it sucked. Chandler also seems to be in massive decline and Larry is a huge risk (that I would take).
 
King Baller said:
Pete has to bring in a starting quality defender at the 4/5 before JT and/or Reggie Evans can be traded. I do not want to start the season With Cousins to be tasked with guarding the Best Big on the opposing team. A quality wing defender would be nice to.

Remember that one game last season when
i

Luc Richard Mbah a Moute

Shut down Chris Paul? That was the best defensive highlight since Ron Artest was here. And that ladies and Gentlemen is pretty damn sad!
Click to expand...


Remember when we traded him to Minnesota and his knee immediately started acting up and he just took up space on the end of their bench for the rest of the season?
 
Tetsujin said:
Remember when we traded him to Minnesota and his knee immediately started acting up and he just took up space on the end of their bench for the rest of the season?
Click to expand...

I do! MBah's knees must be in bad shape. Do you remember the 2nd round picks we traded for MBah? Pete took those instead of Robin Lopez. Jeff Withey was also in that deal. Two defensive centers, a Vet and a Rookie. Pete did not want either apparently.

Some food for thought:

2012-13 Season Strengths

Interior Defense

Lopez was a solid contributor as a paint protector this season both as a help defender and in the post. When opponents posted him up, he held them to .73 points per play (per MySynergy Sports), which is not elite, but certainly above average. In addition, he posted a career high block rate, swatting 5% of opponents' field goal attempts while he was on the floor. Many of these blocks were a result of strong post D, but he picked up a decent number of them through help defense as well. The Hornets' team stats back up Lopez's defensive ability as well, as opponents scored 2.2 points per 100 possessions less with him on the court.

Link --> http://www.blazersedge.com/2013/7/4...icans-kings-verbally-agree-to-three-way-trade
 
King Baller said:
I do! MBah's knees must be in bad shape. Do you remember the 2nd round picks we traded for MBah? Pete took those instead of Robin Lopez. Jeff Withey was also in that deal. Two defensive centers, a Vet and a Rookie. Pete did not want either apparently.

Some food for thought:

2012-13 Season Strengths

Interior Defense

Lopez was a solid contributor as a paint protector this season both as a help defender and in the post. When opponents posted him up, he held them to .73 points per play (per MySynergy Sports), which is not elite, but certainly above average. In addition, he posted a career high block rate, swatting 5% of opponents' field goal attempts while he was on the floor. Many of these blocks were a result of strong post D, but he picked up a decent number of them through help defense as well. The Hornets' team stats back up Lopez's defensive ability as well, as opponents scored 2.2 points per 100 possessions less with him on the court.

Link --> http://www.blazersedge.com/2013/7/4...icans-kings-verbally-agree-to-three-way-trade
Click to expand...

Yes, the Robin Lopez thing has always been a bit of a stick in our craw. I can only assume that PDA assumed that JT was going to be able to do what Lopez could do and that the P-Pat/Landry duo would provide solid production from the 4.

I'm not too broken up about the Withey thing in that (a) he's looked more like Jeff Whispey (read: thinner'n a supermodel) and (b) his best games have both come against us. His rebound rate isn't that great and, while he may be tall, he lacks the build to be a good all-around defender. Which isn't to say that I wouldn't want him on my team (I was advocating drafting him with the Ray Mac pick last year) but we really don't know how much of a contribution we'd milk from him. (It should also be noted that the only reason he saw any playing time at all was because New Orleans' many big men keep getting hurt every 15 minutes. Put him on a roster when dudes aren't dropping like flies and he's probably being assigned to the D-league)
 
Point is Robin Lopez is a defensive player and Jeff Withey is a deep bench project who might become a defensive player. Pete does not go for either guy.
 
Asked whether he anticipates making additional moves via trades or free-agent signings, still seeking a rim protector and a facilitating point guard, D’Alessandro nodded forcefully.

“We have to make moves, absolutely. This is just one piece. We can’t come back with the same team (as last year). We just can’t.”

http://www.sacbee.com/2014/06/28/6520183/ailene-voisin-stauskas-all-around.html#storylink=cpy

there is hope. I looking forward to the trade season opening up. make us believe in you PDA
 
Sac.1989 said:
Asked whether he anticipates making additional moves via trades or free-agent signings, still seeking a rim protector and a facilitating point guard, D’Alessandro nodded forcefully.

“We have to make moves, absolutely. This is just one piece. We can’t come back with the same team (as last year). We just can’t.”

http://www.sacbee.com/2014/06/28/6520183/ailene-voisin-stauskas-all-around.html#storylink=cpy

there is hope. I looking forward to the trade season opening up. make us believe in you PDA
Click to expand...

I will 2nd that.
 
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