The State of the Kings

[Joshoua]

We’re lacking in talent as well as coaching I said it before I’ll say it again we need to trade Buddy for Hayward. 17/6/6 from a SF who isn’t a top 2 option on his team with elite shooting can’t be slept on. Plus he’s a 20ppg when he’s more than the 3rd option also at 6’7 we can move him to SF and have Barnes at PF.

 

[itzcoatl]

The fans anger is totally justified btw. Who’s paying these outrageous ticket prices? Vivek is finding out right now just how important the fans are for a team to be profitable. Hopefully he’s learned from all, and I mean all of his mistakes. This crap has to stop. Gtfo of the way and hire some actually experienced basketball minds to run things. Then stay out of the way. We have had horrible owners now for a long time. Vivek has brought all this hate into himself.

That's fine you can feel how you want. My point is that some fans, particularly myself, just want to read a message board without constant negativity. I note that you joined in January and all five of your posts are negative. I know our team isn't competing for a championship and that our chances of making the playoffs were not great. I still like the players and I like to come to message board that isn't flooded with negative comments.

 

[King Baller]

That's fine you can feel how you want. My point is that some fans, particularly myself, just want to read a message board without constant negativity. I note that you joined in January and all five of your posts are negative. I know our team isn't competing for a championship and that our chances of making the playoffs were not great. I still like the players and I like to come to message board that isn't flooded with negative comments.

I have been where you are for many years. The Kings have been a team I have loved for years. Us Kings Fans owe the owners including Vivek our gratitude and support for saving our Kings.

I love this forum and visit it often. I steered clear of the negativity and defended the Kings from Vivek to the Cheerleaders. I was one of the few who defended Grant. If someone was involved with the Kings I would find a positive spin for them.

The eye ball test has been telling me what Walton is doing does not work this season. IMO both Malone and Joerger are better coaches. IMO Walton needs to go.

Vlade is a beloved former player. Some of his moves have been OK. Hiring Walton after firing Joerger has turned out to be inexcusable IMO. Blowing the 2018 draft and choosing Walton is grounds for Vlade to step down IMO.

Vivek allowed Pete D. to fire Malone, which was a colossal blunder. Malone was then hired by the Nuggets and soon had them contending. This added to what Vivek has oversaw on Vlade's watch is enough where he should allow another to become majority owner IMO. I do not say this lightly because I know we almost lost the Kings.

Watching the Kings play in the bubble fail my eye test has caused me to question why I am a Kings Fan. To me the team seems unprepared. Now keep in mind that for me the bubble is the final straw that sent me from a positive defender of the Kings hierarchy to pleading for changes in coaching, front office and yes even ownership.

You will notice I have not blamed the players. Almost to a man they all played better for Joerger.

So I am sorry if all the negativity is a bother for you, I get it, I was there. But my eye test is telling me it is time for a change in Kings leadership.

 

[Folsomkingsfan]

That's fine you can feel how you want. My point is that some fans, particularly myself, just want to read a message board without constant negativity. I note that you joined in January and all five of your posts are negative. I know our team isn't competing for a championship and that our chances of making the playoffs were not great. I still like the players and I like to come to message board that isn't flooded with negative comments.

I hate to say this, but you are following the wrong team. Outside of a few bright spots last year and this year, Kings forums have been flooded with negativity and rightfully so. You can only drive a franchise into the ground so long before fans get to this stage.

 

[KingsFans4Change!]

That's fine you can feel how you want. My point is that some fans, particularly myself, just want to read a message board without constant negativity. I note that you joined in January and all five of your posts are negative. I know our team isn't competing for a championship and that our chances of making the playoffs were not great. I still like the players and I like to come to message board that isn't flooded with negative comments.

Look lets just say that this is an ordinary business. Lets also say the concept and idea of the business is great and has the ability to bring joy to others. However the owner hires people that have no experience. Or better yet hires all his friends with no experience (this is TRUE). So this boss is an idiot and creates a dysfunctional and toxic work environment that also prevents the business from providing any joy or product to people. How are the employees that believe in the concept suppose to feel?

Im all for being positive but lets also not be ridiculous trying to force people to be positive when it so clearly isn't a positive environment with no prospect of improvement on the horizon. 14 years no playoffs getting up there to the all time record now. The only person that thinks this may be a positive situation is Vivek because hes clueless and he created this disaster.

 

[whozit]

Look lets just say that this is an ordinary business. Lets also say the concept and idea of the business is great and has the ability to bring joy to others. However the owner hires people that have no experience. Or better yet hires all his friends with no experience (this is TRUE). So this boss is an idiot and creates a dysfunctional and toxic work environment that also prevents the business from providing any joy or product to people. How are the employees that believe in the concept suppose to feel?

Im all for being positive but lets also not be ridiculous trying to force people to be positive when it so clearly isn't a positive environment with no prospect of improvement on the horizon. 14 years no playoffs getting up there to the all time record now. The only person that thinks this may be a positive situation is Vivek because hes clueless and he created this disaster.

I don't take Iztcoatl position as forcing anyone to be positive but stating his/her position/feelings. That is perfectly fine.

 

[captain bill]

I hate to say this, but you are following the wrong team. Outside of a few bright spots last year and this year, Kings forums have been flooded with negativity and rightfully so. You can only drive a franchise into the ground so long before fans get to this stage.

Firing Joerger was particularly bad because it was almost identical to what happened with Malone. Coach creates new identity for the team, team vastly improves, someone in the front office starts a stupid beef, coach gets fired and replaced by a retread coach with a semi-big name and the prior success evaporates. It’s absurd that this franchise could commit such a severely stupid mistake not once but twice.

Passing on Luka..... we’re completely falling apart in the bubble while Luka is playing out of his mind, just had an incredible individual performance to take down the Bucks in a super fun tight game. Looks like the best young player since Lebron. Luka even thought he was coming to Sacramento and seemed fine with it.

That’s 3 unforgivably dumb decisions in just 3 or 4 years, each of which probably cost us a playoff spot (and so much more with Luka). How do you come back from that?

I come online most when something great or awful is happening. People want to talk about that stuff it’s the nature of sports. Can’t expect positivity, there’s be a flood of it if anything good happened around here.

Portland’s been fun to watch. Starting to adopt them as a second team, excited to see them fun for the 8th seed and maybe take on the Lakers first round. I’m really loving work from home with all day NBA basketball from the bubble, tons of great matchups with the worst teams eliminated. I’m as happy as a basketball fan I’ve been in a long time. That’s as much positivity as I can muster

 

[KingsFans4Change!]

I don't take Iztcoatl position as forcing anyone to be positive but stating his/her position/feelings. That is perfectly fine.

Pointing out that im being negative is what im addressing. Its a negative situation, fact. Thats not choosing to be negative or having a negative mindset thats BEING FACTUAL. Saying anyone on here is being negative right now after the last 14 years shouldn't need to be pointed out.

 

[itzcoatl]

I have been where you are for many years. The Kings have been a team I have loved for years. Us Kings Fans owe the owners including Vivek our gratitude and support for saving our Kings.

I love this forum and visit it often. I steered clear of the negativity and defended the Kings from Vivek to the Cheerleaders. I was one of the few who defended Grant. If someone was involved with the Kings I would find a positive spin for them.

The eye ball test has been telling me what Walton is doing does not work this season. IMO both Malone and Joerger are better coaches. IMO Walton needs to go.

Vlade is a beloved former player. Some of his moves have been OK. Hiring Walton after firing Joerger has turned out to be inexcusable IMO. Blowing the 2018 draft and choosing Walton is grounds for Vlade to step down IMO.

Vivek allowed Pete D. to fire Malone, which was a colossal blunder. Malone was then hired by the Nuggets and soon had them contending. This added to what Vivek has oversaw on Vlade's watch is enough where he should allow another to become majority owner IMO. I do not say this lightly because I know we almost lost the Kings.

Watching the Kings play in the bubble fail my eye test has caused me to question why I am a Kings Fan. To me the team seems unprepared. Now keep in mind that for me the bubble is the final straw that sent me from a positive defender of the Kings hierarchy to pleading for changes in coaching, front office and yes even ownership.

You will notice I have not blamed the players. Almost to a man they all played better for Joerger.

So I am sorry if all the negativity is a bother for you, I get it, I was there. But my eye test is telling me it is time for a change in Kings leadership.

Totally understand how you are feeling. I think I agree with you on most points. I've been a fan since about 99. And we have been through some rough times with this franchise. I was tempted to hang up my fan status when DMC was traded. But I have had some fun with this team since then. At this point, I am a fan for life. Through good and bad. And I'm gonna keep cheering for the players that come and play hard. The guys that don't quit. We've got players like that on our team. I'm gonna keep rooting for Bagley. I hope that he rehabs, works hard, and works on his deficiencies.

 

[Folsomkingsfan]

Firing Joerger was particularly bad because it was almost identical to what happened with Malone. Coach creates new identity for the team, team vastly improves, someone in the front office starts a stupid beef, coach gets fired and replaced by a retread coach with a semi-big name and the prior success evaporates. It’s absurd that this franchise could commit such a severely stupid mistake not once but twice.

Passing on Luka..... we’re completely falling apart in the bubble while Luka is playing out of his mind, just had an incredible individual performance to take down the Bucks in a super fun tight game. Looks like the best young player since Lebron. Luka even thought he was coming to Sacramento and seemed fine with it.

That’s 3 unforgivably dumb decisions in just 3 or 4 years, each of which probably cost us a playoff spot (and so much more with Luka). How do you come back from that?

I come online most when something great or awful is happening. People want to talk about that stuff it’s the nature of sports. Can’t expect positivity, there’s be a flood of it if anything good happened around here.

Portland’s been fun to watch. Starting to adopt them as a second team, excited to see them fun for the 8th seed and maybe take on the Lakers first round. I’m really loving work from home with all day NBA basketball from the bubble, tons of great matchups with the worst teams eliminated. I’m as happy as a basketball fan I’ve been in a long time. That’s as much positivity as I can muster

It's all due to Vivek's misguided desire to replicate the Warriors.

Perfectly good coach in Dave Joeger, let's fire him to bring on the guy that took the Warriors to their all time biggest win streak, even though he has no real sample size to speak of. We just drafted a shooting guard in 2013? Screw it, let's take the guy (Stauskas) that plays the same position because he reminds me of Klay. Potential generational talent in Luka Doncic, probably one of the easiest picks any team could ever make? You know what, let's go ahead and take the guy that, to quote Vlade "can play the 3,4, and 5" because he can be our Draymond Green and lets us play big or small. You know what let's trade our franchise big man (Cousins) for Buddy Hield, even though we had a better offer a few days ago because Buddy can shoot 3's.

To quote Alibaba founder Jack Ma: You should learn from your competitor, but never copy. Copy and you die.

But I agree, loving this bubble basketball. I have family from Waco, TX so Mavs have always been one of my favorite teams. Watching Luka go off like this brings me slightly more pleasure than pain.

 

[ockingsfan]

You can’t trade down like that for someone who couldn’t get out of bed a week before the draft that’s malpractice

Sure you can. If you pick up a couple of extra first round picks and still get the player you really covet (MPJ), like how Boston picked up extra first round picks and still got Tatum.

In hindsight, a move down to #5 for MPJ and 1 or 2 extra first round picks (since Vlade wasn't taking Luka anyways) would had been better than where we are now.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

In hindsight, a move down to #5 for MPJ and 1 or 2 extra first round picks (since Vlade wasn't taking Luka anyways) would had been better than where we are now.

There wasn't even a full handful of people around here at the time that would have defended an MPJ pick, much less thought it was a good idea. If we had picked MPJ (instead of the golden boy!) this place would have lit up with demands to fire Vlade ten times as vicious as they did anyway. At least Bagley was healthy and had the track record of a top-three pick all through high school and college.

 

[Turgenev]

There wasn't even a full handful of people around here at the time that would have defended an MPJ pick, much less thought it was a good idea. If we had picked MPJ (instead of the golden boy!) this place would have lit up with demands to fire Vlade ten times as vicious as they did anyway. At least Bagley was healthy and had the track record of a top-three pick all through high school and college.

Yeah - even though I've contributed a negative comment or two in the past day - thought I would jump in and add to this. The only reliable predictor of injury is previous injury. This is especially true for the spine and for people who have had spine surgery, which typically has very poor outcomes. MPJ could barely play in college. He might be having a nice little stretch now, good for him. But based on both college output and participation, MBIII was the better pick at the time.

 

[ockingsfan]

There wasn't even a full handful of people around here at the time that would have defended an MPJ pick, much less thought it was a good idea. If we had picked MPJ (instead of the golden boy!) this place would have lit up with demands to fire Vlade ten times as vicious as they did anyway. At least Bagley was healthy and had the track record of a top-three pick all through high school and college.

I was one of those members that suggested a trade down and draft MPJ, if we weren't going to take Luka.

I wanted Luka, but you could see that MPJ would become a high level scorer, if he could stay healthy. I think Vlade really wanted MPJ, but got scared off by the injury concerns. I don't think those MPJ rumors was blowing smoke, considering we owned the #2 pick.

 

[Turgenev]

It's all due to Vivek's misguided desire to replicate the Warriors.

I'm going to disagree with this. From what I have read, Vlade decided to fire DJ and hire LW. Vlade also decided to draft MBIII (who, although not a Euroleague MVP, broke several long held college records as a freshman at Duke). Personally, I don't think getting rid of DJ was a bad move. I do think replacing him with Luke was, and Luke's output has compunded this. Vivek made a mistake in hiring Mike Malone before hiring Pete and then made a mistake in firing Mike (or allowing Pete to fire Mike, whichever). But he seems to have steadied since. In short - the poor state of the franchise is due to Vlade more than Vivek. It has been magnified by MBIII's struggles with injury and by Luka's performance.

 

[HebrewHammer]

I was one of those members that suggested a trade down and draft MPJ, if we weren't going to take Luka.

I wanted Luka, but you could see that MPJ would become a high level scorer, if he could stay healthy. I think Vlade really wanted MPJ, but got scared off by the injury concerns. I don't think those MPJ rumors was blowing smoke, considering we owned the #2 pick.

If Vlade's whiteboard can be trusted, Porter was lower on his list than Doncic:

 

[ppine]

Being a sports fan means never giving up. I grew up following some crummy franchises like the Washington Senators, the Redskins and the Seahawks. But the one thing I cannot forgive is giving up and playing lackluster games with no enthusiasm. That is the status of the Kings now and it is hard to get much excitement about this team.

 

[LPKingsFan]

If Vlade's whiteboard can be trusted, Porter was lower on his list than Doncic:

forgot about the whiteboard leak! I see Ayton, Bagley, Doncic, and Porter. Can anyone make out the other names?

 

[Folsomkingsfan]

forgot about the whiteboard leak! I see Ayton, Bagley, Doncic, and Porter. Can anyone make out the other names?

Ayton, Bagley, Doncic, Porter, Bamba, Bridges

 

[KingsFans4Change!]

I was one of those members that suggested a trade down and draft MPJ, if we weren't going to take Luka.

I wanted Luka, but you could see that MPJ would become a high level scorer, if he could stay healthy. I think Vlade really wanted MPJ, but got scared off by the injury concerns. I don't think those MPJ rumors was blowing smoke, considering we owned the #2 pick.

MPJ could barely walk up the stairs on draft night. 2 back procedures and was currently injured. he was not looking promising at all. But at the place where he did get drafted u can take a chance/risk. We just weren’t gonna trade down that low. Right now it looks good for den but if his back goes out again then it’s back to good that we passed. I’m not gonna second guess any pick in that draft other than luka and ayton. Those two were locks. Every other pick was luck/ toss up.

 

[Larry89]

We're getting a nationally televised game finally tonight. Pelicans vs Kings lol

 

[bajaden]

We’re lacking in talent as well as coaching I said it before I’ll say it again we need to trade Buddy for Hayward. 17/6/6 from a SF who isn’t a top 2 option on his team with elite shooting can’t be slept on. Plus he’s a 20ppg when he’s more than the 3rd option also at 6’7 we can move him to SF and have Barnes at PF.

I would take Hayward for Buddy in a heartbeat, but there are a couple of things wrong with this deal. First, their salaries don't match up. Hayward is due 34 mil next year while Buddy is due 26 mil. Second, Hayward has just that one year left on his contract, and it's his option. So he can opt out if he desires to do so. I doubt he'll do that in the current financial climate, but even so, after next season he'll be a unrestricted free agent.

 

[bajaden]

There wasn't even a full handful of people around here at the time that would have defended an MPJ pick, much less thought it was a good idea. If we had picked MPJ (instead of the golden boy!) this place would have lit up with demands to fire Vlade ten times as vicious as they did anyway. At least Bagley was healthy and had the track record of a top-three pick all through high school and college.

I agree 100%! I really liked Porter and his potential, but there was no way Vlade was going to use that high a draft pick on an injured player, who also had a past history of being injured, and who has a brother who has been constantly injured. Especially after previously choosing Giles who had to sit out a year to get healthy. If he had made that choice there would have been thousands rioting with torches and pitchforks outside his office.

 

[HebrewHammer]

I agree 100%! I really liked Porter and his potential, but there was no way Vlade was going to use that high a draft pick on an injured player, who also had a past history of being injured, and who has a brother who has been constantly injured. Especially after previously choosing Giles who had to sit out a year to get healthy. If he had made that choice there would have been thousands rioting with torches and pitchforks outside his office.

Hyperbole much?
He passed on a generational talent for crying out loud and I see no pitchforks, nor torches. However, I still see enough people defending him and making excuses for the state of this franchise.

 

[CelticsFan]

I would take Hayward for Buddy in a heartbeat, but there are a couple of things wrong with this deal. First, their salaries don't match up. Hayward is due 34 mil next year while Buddy is due 26 mil. Second, Hayward has just that one year left on his contract, and it's his option. So he can opt out if he desires to do so. I doubt he'll do that in the current financial climate, but even so, after next season he'll be a unrestricted free agent.

I would rather have Hayward than Buddy too but let’s look at it from the Celtics side. Why on earth would they want to do this? They just paid Jaylen Brown and Kemba and will have Tatum due up soon for a max contract. Buddy isn’t even in year one of his new contract and it already looks like it’s going to be a bad deal. Same with the Pacers why would they want to give up Turner on a friendly contract for a bad Buddy contract?

Vlade overpaid Buddy, he won’t be an easy player to move. If you’re a contender most likely you are already close to the cap. Do you want to tie up 23 million or so on Buddy or could you spend the money more wisely?

 

[24 rick barry]

I'm going to disagree with this. From what I have read, Vlade decided to fire DJ and hire LW. Vlade also decided to draft MBIII (who, although not a Euroleague MVP, broke several long held college records as a freshman at Duke). Personally, I don't think getting rid of DJ was a bad move. I do think replacing him with Luke was, and Luke's output has compunded this. Vivek made a mistake in hiring Mike Malone before hiring Pete and then made a mistake in firing Mike (or allowing Pete to fire Mike, whichever). But he seems to have steadied since. In short - the poor state of the franchise is due to Vlade more than Vivek. It has been magnified by MBIII's struggles with injury and by Luka's performance.

This is correct.
Vivek made a mistake in hiring Mike Malone before hiring Pete and then made a mistake in firing Mike

It was the owner's decision to fire Mike Malone. Nobody else. Don't kid yourselves.

Also, the owner/managing partner stated that he wanted Nik Stauskus drafted as the Kings number 1 pick, then of course, the team would draft him. And this is what the Kings did.

Don't blame Pete for either of these moves...this is all on Vivek. Pete has been quiet about this, but this is what happened. He has had to fall on his sword, be the good company man, because he wants to keep his job or work again in the NBA.

The decisions, at this time were made at the top of the organization.

And this didn't work out.

Early on, even Vlade didn't have full decision making power..it was shared.

Later on, during Vlade's tenure, he was allowed to be the decision make solely. The team situation as it sits currently, is all on him.

 

[PurpleHaze]

What, who me?

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Hyperbole much?
He passed on a generational talent for crying out loud and I see no pitchforks, nor torches.

You don't?!?!?

 

[bajaden]

Hyperbole much?
He passed on a generational talent for crying out loud and I see no pitchforks, nor torches. However, I still see enough people defending him and making excuses for the state of this franchise.

What has that to do with what I said? I'm talking about MPJ, not Doncic. And, I don't really see a lot of people defending Vlade, including me. But I think that if you look closely enough, metaphorically, you just might be able to see those torches and pitchforks.

 

[Joshoua]

There wasn't even a full handful of people around here at the time that would have defended an MPJ pick, much less thought it was a good idea. If we had picked MPJ (instead of the golden boy!) this place would have lit up with demands to fire Vlade ten times as vicious as they did anyway. At least Bagley was healthy and had the track record of a top-three pick all through high school and college.

Theres just no justifying taking porter dude couldn’t walk, if you have Bagley close to him you take Bagley