The ONE AND ONLY Luka Doncic discussion thread

[sergmatt]

To be fair, it was less taking it to the Spurs so much as the Spurs just wilting and not playing any defense whatsoever. The only reason it wasn't a blowout is because Luka's teammates are horrible.

True however once again Luka's teammates or lack thereof is not the reason this thread exists. This thread exists because Vlade blew it and passed on a phenomenal player that is putting up near historical numbers at 20 years old.

You like to keep pointing out how bad the rest of the Dallas roster is, how bad a coach Carlisle is, how bad their GM Nelson is, and how fragile Porzingis knees......but in the grand scheme of things on a Kings website......are any of these supposed to make me feel better about the Kings passing on Luka?

Dallas roster sucks so therefore it's not that big a deal that the Kings passed on him? Is that your point?

The disgusting thing is the Kings actually had far more talent to put around Luka. That means if he was here doing similar things to what he's doing now (with better talent and defense around him) then the Kings would be looking like a playoff type team and a real contender in the coming years.

 

[Tetsujin]

True however once again Luka's teammates or lack thereof is not the reason this thread exists. This thread exists because Vlade blew it and passed on a phenomenal player that is putting up near historical numbers at 20 years old.

You like to keep pointing out how bad the rest of the Dallas roster is, how bad a coach Carlisle is, how bad their GM Nelson is, and how fragile Porzingis knees......but in the grand scheme of things on a Kings website......are any of these supposed to make me feel better about the Kings passing on Luka?

Dallas roster sucks so therefore it's not that big a deal that the Kings passed on him? Is that your point?

The disgusting thing is the Kings actually had far more talent to put around Luka. That means if he was here doing similar things to what he's doing now (with better talent and defense around him) then the Kings would be looking like a playoff type team and a real contender in the coming years.

If you're looking for a support group to get over your long seated issues regarding the Kings, I don't know what to tell you.

What's done is done and bitching and moaning about it isn't going to change it. I'm just here to talk about basketball.

 

[sergmatt]

If you're looking for a support group to get over your long seated issues regarding the Kings, I don't know what to tell you.

What's done is done and bitching and moaning about it isn't going to change it. I'm just here to talk about basketball.

True but quit trying to spin it with your "yeah but......"

Luka has 40+ and a triple-double and you try to deflect from that and spin it into how bad the rest of their roster is, how bad the Spurs are, etc. Not really the best timing for the "yeah but" routine.

 

[Tetsujin]

True but quit trying to spin it with your "yeah but......"

Luka has 40+ and a triple-double and you try to deflect from that and spin it into how bad the rest of their roster is, how bad the Spurs are, etc. Not really the best timing for the "yeah but" routine.

I'm not spinning it as yeah buts.

Look, I'm sorry that Vlade passing on Luka has wounded you so, I really am. Honestly, if you're still this broken up about it, taking a step back from basketball may be the healthiest thing you can do.

Watching the game, the thing that caught my eye more than Luka getting his numbers was how bad the Spurs looked. That's not a "yeah but", that's my honest opinion. Once again, I'm sorry that I didn't do my best to appease every narrative out there or appeal to the "Vlade ruined this franchise forever" crowd.

As I've said thousands of times before, I wanted Luka in the draft, posted hundreds of posts about how Luka was the right choice. But I'm over it. And if I can both enjoy the Kings being good and just watching basketball, is that really a bad thing?

 

[sergmatt]

If I can both enjoy the Kings being good and just watching basketball, is that really a bad thing?

Nope not at all. You have more faith in the Kings than I do. I like the gritty way they are playing now but not sure it will last. In terms of Luka, Vlade set the franchise back several years.

All I'm saying in context of this thread is it's annoying when everytime Luka has one of his spectacular games, you're here trying to dismiss that and talk about all of these things that aren't that relevant to the performance at hand.

If there was a football thread devoted to Patrick Mahomes a year or two ago, and he had one of his big 375 yard/5 touchdown games......would you want to be that guy saying: "Yeah well Andy Reid sucks and is terrible with timeouts, Andy Reid can't win the big one , their defense is terrible, they don't have a true #1 WR.......but yeah I guess Mahomes had a good game"?

 

[The Effort Police]

Why are we talking about the Kings winning a ring as if that's an actual possibility? I'd sooner assume that won't happen rather than it will. Yeah, a ring would be make me forget about it, but a 50 win season or something absolutely will not.

A ring also won't make anyone else forget it about in the NBA consciousness. See Darko Milicic and the Pistons. And the brunt of it isn't directed at the Suns or Hawks, but the Kings. People are baffled at the Kings more than anyone f'ing this up. It's talked about every time Doncic does something notable not just here, but everywhere.

 

[Tetsujin]

Nope not at all. You have more faith in the Kings than I do. I like the gritty way they are playing now but not sure it will last. In terms of Luka, Vlade set the franchise back several years.

All I'm saying in context of this thread is it's annoying when everytime Luka has one of his spectacular games, you're here trying to dismiss that and talk about all of these things that aren't that relevant to the performance at hand.

If there was a football thread devoted to Patrick Mahomes a year or two ago, and he had one of his big 375 yard/5 touchdown games......would you want to be that guy saying: "Yeah well Andy Reid sucks and is terrible with timeouts, Andy Reid can't win the big one , their defense is terrible, they don't have a true #1 WR.......but yeah I guess Mahomes had a good game"?

Perhaps not relevant to the performance at hand but really relevant to the player at hand. (Though in today's case the Spurs sucking had an awful lot to do with Luka's night)

I mean, I love watching huge performances but how sustainable is a team's success when your main guy has to run himself into the ground just to keep you from getting blown out by the Knicks?


And honestly, I am that guy who would talk about Andy Reid's pop warner grade game management and utter inability to set up a passable defense in the midst of a Mahomes performance because it's all connected in the grand scheme of things. These 40 point triple doubles are incredible but if Luka is burnt out by March or April from having to drag the burning stinkhole of a Mavs roster from the brink every night or God forbid suffers a New Orleans Boogie style fatigue injury it's not worth it in the long run.

 

[SLAB]

It was a joke, first off.

Secondly, if the Kings end up winning the title before the Mavs do, does it really matter who we passed on or not?

That’s a mighty huge if.

 

[Hansel]

I'm wondering how much PHX and SAC front offices are getting paid to take basketball decisions.

 

[Joshoua]

It was a joke, first off.

Secondly, if the Kings end up winning the title before the Mavs do, does it really matter who we passed on or not?

yes if we win a title but we passed on a generational talent than we could’ve have won more. What if Detroit took wade ya they won a ring but they win more with him. Imagine have fox or Luka on the floor for 48 minutes

 

[Joshoua]

Also Luka might be a top 8 player already. ****

 

[Tetsujin]

I'm wondering how much PHX and SAC front offices are getting paid to take basketball decisions.

Ironically not as much as Donnie Nelson.

 

[Joshoua]

I'm wondering how much PHX and SAC front offices are getting paid to take basketball decisions.

hire his coach pass on him haha embarrassing. In this era you win with wings imagine that team with Luka/Booker all you need is a rim running center that come already like candy.
Wait we passed too I should shut up

 

[Tetsujin]

yes if we win a title but we passed on a generational talent than we could’ve have won more. What if Detroit took wade ya they won a ring but they win more with him. Imagine have fox or Luka on the floor for 48 minutes

Fair enough.

But at the same time it's too early to be worried about these things. I think what's amplifying things is that Luka and Trae are lighting things up while Ayton and Bagley aren't playing at all because one of them decided to use steroids and the other guy had the misfortune to get in his way.

Currently the ledger is like 75 to 0 when who knows how the numbers would have looked if both guys were playing. (Not trying to claim Bagley and Ayton would be outperforming Luka or whatever, just we're watching a boxing match where one of the boxers hasn't even thrown a punch yet).

Seeing how much trouble Bogdan has had playing with Fox over their time together and just how these sorts of things work in general, I have my doubts that Luka and Fox would had worked out together but that's all water under the bridge at this point. The Mavs are succeeding by pretty much having all their dudes stand in the corner and handing the ball to Luka every possession. To their credit, it's working but Luka has surprisingly not been that great off the ball this season (probably more on Zinger being sorta bad than anything else).

 

[Tetsujin]

Also Luka might be a top 8 player already. ****

In league where Harden is a top player, yeah probably. Luka is a taller, more enjoyable to watch version of the beard with probably a little less lateral quickness.

 

[Joshoua]

Fair enough.

But at the same time it's too early to be worried about these things. I think what's amplifying things is that Luka and Trae are lighting things up while Ayton and Bagley aren't playing at all because one of them decided to use steroids and the other guy had the misfortune to get in his way.

Currently the ledger is like 75 to 0 when who knows how the numbers would have looked if both guys were playing. (Not trying to claim Bagley and Ayton would be outperforming Luka or whatever, just we're watching a boxing match where one of the boxers hasn't even thrown a punch yet).

Seeing how much trouble Bogdan has had playing with Fox over their time together and just how these sorts of things work in general, I have my doubts that Luka and Fox would had worked out together but that's all water under the bridge at this point. The Mavs are succeeding by pretty much having all their dudes stand in the corner and handing the ball to Luka every possession. To their credit, it's working but Luka has surprisingly not been that great off the ball this season (probably more on Zinger being sorta bad than anything else).

it’s clear at this point if the two didn’t work trade Fox, Fox doesn’t have too 5 player potential that Luka has. And when you’re picking in the top 5 you don’t entertain fit get the players that have most talent it’s not like we’re going pg, pg, pg like David Kahn did.

Luka fits with Buddy and Bogi hell we could’ve traded Fox for a 1st and a good young player. Throw money at defenders and have a lineup of Luka/Bogi/Buddy and say Brogdon and Favors.

Wouldn’t let Fox stop me from getting a guy dropping 29/10/9 in his second year. I’d trade Fox, Bogi, and Buddy right now for Luka which would get laughed at by dallas

 

[Tetsujin]

it’s clear at this point if the two didn’t work trade Fox, Fox doesn’t have too 5 player potential that Luka has. And when you’re picking in the top 5 you don’t entertain fit get the players that have most talent it’s not like we’re going pg, pg, pg like David Kahn did.

Luka fits with Buddy and Bogi hell we could’ve traded Fox for a 1st and a good young player. Throw money at defenders and have a lineup of Luka/Bogi/Buddy and say Brogdon and Favors.

Wouldn’t let Fox stop me from getting a guy dropping 29/10/9 in his second year. I’d trade Fox, Bogi, and Buddy right now for Luka which would get laughed at by dallas

I'm fairly certain the Kings also wouldn't make that trade so that's a moot point entirely lol.

The thing that we do need to keep in mind though is that we're barely even 15 games into the season and teams have barely even begun looking a tape yet.

Hate to keep beating the defense drum but in the 4th quarter, the Spurs got back into the game by forcing the Mavs into iso situations with Luka against a guard or DeRozan and Luka struggled big time to the point where Dallas sorta pulled him out of their defensive schemes entirely and had him in the Trae Young freelance role (i.e you're so bad at defense that we're just gonna have you play the passing lanes and generally hope no one finds your man). Now in the last couple of possessions, the Spurs completely KANGZ'ed and became a turnover machine so we couldn't really see how it would all play out but I'd wager that Pop had a couple of plays drawn up to take advantage of Luka on a rub and/or Dallas over plays to cover up for him or the fact that Porzingis plays defense like a 7'3" person with absolutely no lateral agility whatsoever (while also playing offense like a undersized shooting guard who's afraid of having his shot blocked in the paint).

Luka's probably going to have no issues getting what he wants on offense (though I am still concerned that Carlisle is going to run him into the ground by mid-January with his 35 MPG at 34.7% YSG (4th in the league behind Harden, Kawhi, and Giannis)) but I think we're going to see more and more teams (at least the good ones) take advantage of him (and to a lesser extent Zinger) late in games when execution becomes important and Luka is exhausted from having to cover for Dwight Powell, Justin Jackson, and Seth Curry for 30 minutes. This is also something that we've seen happen to Harden throughout his career (though the Rockets have had elite defenders like CP3, younger Ariza, and PJ Tucker around to cover for him for years while the Mavs currently have Delon Wright (?) as their best defender).

I'm interested in seeing whether or not the Mavs try to go for it this season or if they're content either making the playoffs or dropping out with this lineup at hand. As it is, they might wind up in the race sheerly because teams like the Blazers have self-sabotaged themselves to the point of now just being bad. Now they don't really have the assets to make a lot of moves but even getting a guy like Shump (too late), who can play impactful on the ball defense late in games would have probably taken their roster up another level. Then again, more money spent now means less money for Dwight Powell's next 40 million dollar extension.

 

[KingsCitizen]

This thread is turning into a milking cow of a poster that can't get over a dream that never came true. I wonder what's the reward expected from this thread. Bricklayer has already left with the DMC trade. This is like anti-Brick kind of personality, praising someone who not even in a Kings uniform and expecting Kingsfans to comment? For what? Should I start a thread about the "One and only Kawhi Leonard Discussion" or the "One and only Steph Curry Discussion". I don't know why you guys keep feeding this thread instead of flushing this out of the drain a long long time ago. "PERIOD"

 

[mac]

This thread is turning into a milking cow of a poster that can't get over a dream that never came true. I wonder what's the reward expected from this thread. Bricklayer has already left with the DMC trade. This is like anti-Brick kind of personality, praising someone who not even in a Kings uniform and expecting Kingsfans to comment? For what? Should I start a thread about the "One and only Kawhi Leonard Discussion" or the "One and only Steph Curry Discussion". I don't know why you guys keep feeding this thread instead of flushing this out of the drain a long long time ago. "PERIOD"

That's kinda why this is in the NBA forum... Nobody's forcing you to come read it. Like, the whole idea of not forcing you to read it and ensuring it doesn't permeate every other thread is literally why the mods created it and called it the one and only ....

 

[Dime Dropper]

This thread is turning into a milking cow of a poster that can't get over a dream that never came true. I wonder what's the reward expected from this thread. Bricklayer has already left with the DMC trade. This is like anti-Brick kind of personality, praising someone who not even in a Kings uniform and expecting Kingsfans to comment? For what? Should I start a thread about the "One and only Kawhi Leonard Discussion" or the "One and only Steph Curry Discussion". I don't know why you guys keep feeding this thread instead of flushing this out of the drain a long long time ago. "PERIOD"

The irony of you specifically coming into this thread to have a good whinge and moan is apparently lost on you.

 

[rosa u podne]

hire his coach pass on him haha embarrassing. In this era you win with wings imagine that team with Luka/Booker all you need is a rim running center that come already like candy.
Wait we passed too I should shut up

They had a rim-protecting center. They let him walk. He starts for the Kings now.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Nope not at all. You have more faith in the Kings than I do...

I don't actually think that wanting to move on as a fan requires one to have faith in the Kings... But, also, I've gotten out of the "rooting for teams" business, so don't mind me, I guess.

 

[KingsCitizen]

The irony of you specifically coming into this thread to have a good whinge and moan is apparently lost on you.

Sorry my dudes! Apparently this pops everyday on "What's New" of this forum, which is beyond my tolerance as a Sacramento Kings fans. I don't mind a thread about a player popping in what's new from time to time, but this is serious annoyance to my purple coloured glasses. I mean seriously? Your appetite for this thread is amazingly Un-Kingsly.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Sorry my dudes! Apparently this pops everyday on "What's New" of this forum, which is beyond my tolerance as a Sacramento Kings fans.

Instead of going to

https://community.kingsfans.com/whats-new/

have you tried going straight to

https://community.kingsfans.com/ ?

At the main site, topics are organized by forum, and forums with new material are shown in boldface. Kings-related forums are towards the top, and non-Kings-related forums are lower down on the page, so you don't have to weed through them if you don't want.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Instead of going to

https://community.kingsfans.com/whats-new/

have you tried going straight to

https://community.kingsfans.com/ ?

At the main site, topics are organized by forum, and forums with new material are shown in boldface. Kings-related forums are towards the top, and non-Kings-related forums are lower down on the page, so you don't have to weed through them if you don't want.

Or, even better, change your bookmark to the Kings Fans subfolder, directly, and you'll never see it:

https://community.kingsfans.com/forums/kings-rap.2/

 

[sergmatt]

I mean, I love watching huge performances but

If by "love" you mean nitpicking them and continually mentioning that the other teams poor defense is the source of said huge performance and that the coach is running the player into the ground, then yes I agree.......you really "love" huge performances.

How sustainable is a team's success when your main guy has to run himself into the ground just to keep you from getting blown out by the Knicks?

I don't know how sustainable it is (time will tell) but would it be better if he played worse? The rest of Dallas roster isn't very good so if Luka doesn't play well they lose some of the games they've been winning and get blown out in the others. If they purposely hold Luka back they will lose more games.

And honestly, I am that guy who would talk about Andy Reid's pop warner grade game management and utter inability to set up a passable defense in the midst of a Mahomes performance because it's all connected in the grand scheme of things. These 40 point triple doubles are incredible but if Luka is burnt out by March or April from having to drag the burning stinkhole of a Mavs roster from the brink every night or God forbid suffers a New Orleans Boogie style fatigue injury it's not worth it in the long run.

Confirmation that you are in fact the "yeah but...." guy. I think the big disconnect between you and me in regards to Luka and this thread is that you look at everything regarding Luka through the view of a Maverick's team perspective with all of these caveats you've tied to Luka. You're concerned about their coach, their GM, their owner, Porzingis knees, their overall poor roster, etc. All of those are valid concerns from a Dallas Mavericks team perspective (especially if you are a Maverick's fan). Most of us here are not Maverick's fans so we are not concerned with the inner workings of the Mavericks or their long term fortunes as a team.

I'm looking at it from the perspective that Luka Doncic is a tremendous player and is putting up historical unheard of numbers for a 20 year old. That's the real story here. Whether Donnie Nelson is a bad GM and/or Mark Cuban is a spaz with a third grader's haircut have nothing to do with Luka having the best game of his career last night.

 

[hrdboild]

For all the people who called me a whiner on draft day...

Are you watching this?? I was not overreacting. We screwed ourselves out of an all-time great. This could be multiple championships thrown away. This kid is supposed to be in a Kings jersey right now and we'd be the most exciting team in the league with a triple-headed Fox/Hield/Doncic monster. There won't be another player in the draft this good for 10 years.

 

[burekijogurt]

Vlade might have been afraid of being juged as too homery for drafting a player from his neck of the woods that could not translate his game to the NBA . he went for the "sure thing". i think. that plust the fit with Fox ( if we drafted Luka I think we would end up trading Fox). so those two factors. but it turned out Luka can deal with the athleticism of the NBA and then some.

 

[macadocious]

I'm not very active in this discussion, but I was easily one of the most upset fans when we passed on Doncic. Being the Kings fan I am, I rationalized and jumped on Board with Bagley. I actually really like Bagley. All that being said, from a pure statistical standpoint, what counting stats and slash line would Bagley need to achieve to say we didn't make a mistake? Team records aside.

 

[Hansel]

Luka Doncic is the only NBA player currently ranked in the top 10 in scoring (fourth, 29.5 ppg), rebounding (10th, 10.7) and assists (second, 9.3). The season is only a month old, but with the Mavs at 8-5, the 20-year-old is unquestionably on the short list of MVP candidates.

I'm not very active in this discussion, but I was easily one of the most upset fans when we passed on Doncic. Being the Kings fan I am, I rationalized and jumped on Board with Bagley. I actually really like Bagley. All that being said, from a pure statistical standpoint, what counting stats and slash line would Bagley need to achieve to say we didn't make a mistake? Team records aside.

Walk on water I guess.