The one AND ONLY "Fire Adelman" thread for 05-06

[VF21]

LMAO on that one. All I read on here is how he sucks.
Excellent post, Slim

Oh please...

That is just patently false.

You know darned well you also read all the time how he's too skinny.

 

[West_Gunslinger16]

Kevin Martin is so overrated. If you go to RealGM.com in Kings you'll know what these people are talking about. They praise that guy to much but he really never proved anything. They only praise him for his athleticism but that's just it. Price amazed me with his abilities he showcased in his small playing time. Man, I'd rather have Evans than Martin.

 

[frankie]

To say that Martin is "grossly overrated" would suggest that he is "highly rated" by somebody. I therefore challenge you to support this statement with a coherent argument.

Martin was brought because he was suppose to use his athleticism to play Kings ball. Staff expects him to use his quickness for backdoor cuts and to make midrange jumpers a la Rip Hamilton. What they overestimated IMHO is his basketball IQ. Certain feel for the game, not something you can teach, or acquire during time. Something that I can see that Francisco has, even though he is still making rookie mistakes. I remember the season when Hedo was rookie. He was able to use his limited minutes to make some good plays (He put some weight on later and got slower which ultimately lead to him being traded, but that's besides the point). Martin doesn't have it: he either gets rattled or he gets overconfident, his jumper is nothing close to expected, he makes uncalled for charges, frequenly makes dumb turnovers, etc.

My biggest argument against Martin is that we got rid of some really good players like Matt Barnes and Mo Evans to make space for him. So far this has not payed off at all. In that sense I believe Petrie overrated Martin when he drafted him.

 

[Kingsgurl]

So, let me see if I got this straight....when Martin makes mistakes it's because he has low basketball IQ, when Garcia makes mistakes it's because he's a rookie, and he OBVIOUSLY already 'gets it' but is just working out the kinks? And you hold that opinion because Kevin has SO much real game time under his belt, right?

And all this relates to the topic of firing Adelman how? Because he is, OH MY GOD!!!!!, trying to develop some young players?

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Martin was brought because he was suppose to use his athleticism to play Kings ball. Staff expects him to use his quickness for backdoor cuts and to make midrange jumpers a la Rip Hamilton.

I've watched every game this season, and I have yet to see any evidence that he is not capable of this... eventually. Anybody who told you that Martin was going to be capable of that in what is, ostensibly, his first full NBA season, was trying to sell you something.

... What they overestimated IMHO is his basketball IQ. Certain feel for the game, not something you can teach, or acquire during time. Something that I can see that Francisco has, even though he is still making rookie mistakes....

You could have saved everyone time by simply saying, "I like Garcia, so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, and I don't like Martin, so I won't." You know, this argument reminds me of how, right after Hurricane Katrina tore up New Orleans, and they would show pictures of black people "looting," and then turn around and show whites doing the same thing, saying that they were "finding ****."

My biggest argument against Martin is that we got rid of some really good players like Matt Barnes and Mo Evans to make space for him. So far this has not payed off at all.

Either you've been misinformed, or you're trying to intentially deceive people here. Barnes was not gotten rid of to make room for Martin; he had to be packaged in the Webber trade in order to make the salaries work. Evans, if anything, was allowed to leave in order to make room for Francisco Garcia, as Petrie would only have kept him to be Stojakovic's backup.

In that sense I believe Petrie overrated Martin when he drafted him.

Overrated? Over whom? You're acting like we took Martin in the lottery.

 

[Amory]

I'm sorry if this has already been adressed but does anyone think that there would be a couching change because of the different type of game that our new people have? If we stick with Bonzi and Reef at the end of the season and throw in one of our core players to get someone really good I can see it happen.

 

[VF21]

It's more likely than not that there will be a new coach for the Sacramento Kings in 2006-2007 no matter what happens this season IMHO.

There have been too many things happen; too much water under the bridge; etc.

Rick Adellman is the exception to the norm for pro coaches anyway. He has been here a very long time. After this year, I strongly suspect - as do a lot of people - that he will move on. And I think it will be a mutual decision between him and the Maloofs.

 

[frankie]

You could have saved everyone time by simply saying, "I like Garcia, so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, and I don't like Martin, so I won't." You know, this argument reminds me of how, right after Hurricane Katrina tore up New Orleans, and they would show pictures of black people "looting," and then turn around and show whites doing the same thing, saying that they were "finding ****."

I think that after tonight game against Spurs you understand my point regarding Garcia and Martin much better, so I will not argue with you. Martin gets the hype that Gerald Wallace used to get, and like him, he is not fullfiling the expectations (Garcia is, IMHO). I think he will either get traded or start getting less and less playing time, and then won't be offered a new contract.

Either you've been misinformed, or you're trying to intentially deceive people here. Barnes was not gotten rid of to make room for Martin; he had to be packaged in the Webber trade in order to make the salaries work. Evans, if anything, was allowed to leave in order to make room for Francisco Garcia, as Petrie would only have kept him to be Stojakovic's backup.

You are the one who is misinformed. Barnes was free agent this summer, we could have picked him up for a pocket change. He was familiar with our offense, and on top of that wanted to play proball in Sac. Why do you think we didn't? Because we had Martin.

Overrated? Over whom? You're acting like we took Martin in the lottery.

Oh, I thought we did. My bad. It doesn't change my opinion much. The kid is not as talented as Petrie thought he would be. Bottom line.

 

[Smart_guy3]

If we have a bad record by mid december or even earlier then the Maloofs might have no choice but to fire Adelman and bring in a coach someone like Paul silas will be nice. RA knows he's in danger of being fired it's only a matter of time when and why he was fired and those answers will be answered as soon as the Kings team starts struggling more as Games go on.

There is 3 coaches who will likely be fired soon.

Rick Adelman, Sam Mitchell and Bob Weiss.

 

[SacTownKid]

Well Terry Porter has been in town lately. Some have mentioned it seems a bit odd.

But if we're sucking by mid-december I don't think firing Adelman will be the only way the Maloofs go about changing things.

 

[Smart_guy3]

But if we're sucking by mid-december I don't think firing Adelman will be the only way the Maloofs go about changing things.

If changing things one must realize that fireing the coach is the main change; and then they can focus on Trades/FA but at this point I have no question that I will support the Maloofs fireing RA I said it the first time I created the Fire Adelman thread that his time is up and one way or another the Maloofs will realize this.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

I think that after tonight game against Spurs you understand my point regarding Garcia and Martin much better, so I will not argue with you. Martin gets the hype that Gerald Wallace used to get, and like him, he is not fullfiling the expectations (Garcia is, IMHO). I think he will either get traded or start getting less and less playing time, and then won't be offered a new contract.

I understand no such thing. Hell, Martin played better in a win against the Spurs in a game last year, so no, I'm not prepared to accept the first game in which Garcia didn't screw up as evidence of anything in particular.

... You are the one who is misinformed. Barnes was free agent this summer, we could have picked him up for a pocket change. He was familiar with our offense, and on top of that wanted to play proball in Sac. Why do you think we didn't? Because we had Martin.

Quit trying to play revisionist history; you didn't say that we didn't sign Barnes in the offseason because of Martin (a claim that I doubt you could prove, but that's neither here nor there), you said that we "got rid" of him to make room for Barnes. And we "got rid" of him to make the trade work.

... My biggest argument against Martin is that we got rid of some really good players like Matt Barnes and Mo Evans to make space for him...

You did say that; don't come back after you were proven wrong and act like you didn't.

This entire argument is silly to me; neither one of these kids are ready to help an NBA team right now, so why not allow them BOTH to develop? Some people around here act like, in order for one of them to suceed, the other one has to fail. If you ask me, this is a million times more stupid than the Stojakovic vs. Webber argument: at least there were a small percentage of people that had "legitimate" reasons not to like Webber (character, or whatever). There is no intelligent reason not to like Martin. Or Garcia; Kings Fans should be rooting for BOTH of these kids to turn out good.

 

[captain bill]

I don't know what the argument is about. Everyone should know that in 2 or 3 years, if Martin shows any talent, he'll walk anyway. When have we ever kept a young promising talent onboard?

 

[Rookie]

Peja?

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

I don't know what the argument is about. Everyone should know that in 2 or 3 years, if Martin shows any talent, he'll walk anyway. When have we ever kept a young promising talent onboard?

And why do you single out Martin with this comment? Why wouldn't Garcia leave in three years if he turns out to be any good?

 

[Big Cuz 15]

Gatorade has now started to combine flavors in their drinks. This is what provides the game winning formula. Say for example you were to take a yellow gatorade, known for its stamina qualities, and you were to mix it with a blue gatorade, which is known for the courage it instills, the end result would be a green gatorade fashioned for players like Peja who seem to fizzle out during the end of games. You definitely wouldn't want to see bonzi drinking the blue gatorade, he would be out of control. Bonzi would be best hydrated with a mixture of orange gatorade (smarts) and tropical (calming). Its not all about one particular flavor, more about finding the right combonation of flavor for a certain players needs

OH LORD JESUS CHRIST!! i haven't laughed this hard at a post in a long f'ng time =) HAHAHAHAHAHAH my stomache hurts now

 

[Big Cuz 15]

IMO Adelman should have been fired last year. I believe he is an adequate coach who can get above average results out of great talent. A lot of other teams in the NBA would love to have them at this point, just none of the championship contenders. The problem is that he doesn't maximize the talent he has on the team. The concept of team defense has been lost on this team since day 1. Defensive rotation, helpside defense---these terms don't apply to Sacramento. Adelman is also loyal to a fault to certain players. I realize Bibby and Stojakovic are all-star caliber players, but if they are slumping, it wouldn't hurt to play their reserves during crunch time. Most importantly though, is that Adelman has never instilled toughness in this team. Every team is a direct reflection of its coach, so its no surprise that the Kings have wilted under pressure every post-season. They are soft, weak willed, and lack confidence--just like their coach. When the team faces adversity, it folds. Please don't cite how they win 50+ games every year with a myriad of injuries because the regular season doesn't count for anything.
The Kings need a coach who can take the team to the next level; to instill a confidence and toughness in the team that would enable them to get past hard nosed, strong willed teams in the playoffs.

i agree with some of your points. specifically how the team is a reflection of the coach. i wish adelman would yank some players to the side and let them know whats up (i saw poppovich to that to parker last yr in the finals in the first quarter when tony was taking wild shots and not running the offense the way popps wanted it run..). IE when some of the kings players start to do all the 1 on 5/ 1 on 1 dribbling creating their own shot. i don't see any of the kings players that can do that sucessfully except maybe reef when he is on the low block.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

The Kings are soft, weak willed and lack confidence?

...

do I smell a whiff of troll in the air?

actually, if you think about it. *cough* peja *cough* i could probably name one or two on the team that fits that description VF21. i recall those air balls that were chucked when the players were WIDE open ... like they happened yesterday. i don't want to go on bc i'm gonna get all upset ... all over again.

 

[thesanityannex]

OH LORD JESUS CHRIST!! i haven't laughed this hard at a post in a long f'ng time =) HAHAHAHAHAHAH my stomache hurts now

lol, i had forgotten about the gatorade theories. glad you liked the breakdown of flavors.

 

[West_Gunslinger16]

It's the coach... i liked his performance before but what really made me mad was last year's playoffs. This lineup was working during I think the last playoff game:

C Ostertag
F Miller
F Stojakovic
G Mobley
G Bibby

That really worked. But he sent Ostertag to the bench the Sonics were just I think 2-5 points away. Man I was really pissed off. I wasn't asking for a Championship at that time but I just want to see the Kings play at the second round. Curse you!!!!!

 

[kingsofnba]

how many more games like this one will RA survive as coach??? i say if the kings are well bellow the .500 mark by the 30 games mark (i.e. 12W-18L), i think RA will be toast... the maloofs will probably wait and give him about 30 games to turn this thing around... one thing is for sure, the effort and intensity level better improve very very soon...

 

[SacTownKid]

If we go .500 in December some things will be changing around here. Maybe not Adelman being fired but some player movement at least. I really don't know if the Kings would fire Adelman mid-season. I don't think they would do that.

 

[Ryle]

IQuit trying to play revisionist history; you didn't say that we didn't sign Barnes in the offseason because of Martin (a claim that I doubt you could prove, but that's neither here nor there), you said that we "got rid" of him to make room for Barnes. And we "got rid" of him to make the trade work.

Sorry Slim but he/she is right. Although Barnes went in the trade he pretty much sat in Sac during the Summer and waited for them to sign him but the Kings wanted to go with Martin and Garcia and passed on Barnes(it was in the paper). I'm not a big Martin fan and I would have rather seen Garcia and Barnes coming of the bench.

 

[SacTownKid]

Just saw on another board that in SI it says that Rick may be cashed in and the replacement could be the coach of the Monarchs, John Whisenant. Wow.

 

[kennadog]

Just saw on another board that in SI it says that Rick may be cashed in and the replacement could be the coach of the Monarchs, John Whisenant. Wow.

And ESPN magazine this week had a blurb saying if RA goes, it could well be Elston Turner. Rumors will keep flying as long as the Kings appear to be getting nowhere. (Of course, at least we know Coach Whiz is "defense first and the offense will follow.")

 

[SacTownKid]

And ESPN magazine this week had a blurb saying if RA goes, it could well be Elston Turner. Rumors will keep flying as long as the Kings appear to be getting nowhere. (Of course, at least we know Coach Whiz is "defense first and the offense will follow.")

And he knows how to use post players very well.

 

[Sirius]

Whisenant would probably want to trade half the team, he definitely would not put up with this.

 

[Kings113]

I think Elston could do well... but what would become of Carril and Petrie? Just curious.

If the Kings don't do well in these next 8-10 games, something's gotta happen.

 

[Ryle]

Believe it or not there was a Maloof sighting at the game last night and I watched him sit in his seat and just glare at the Kings bench. They need to do something because there is alot of "tension" in the arena and the fans will soon be turning their wrath on them. There was even some boos when Peja missed his second layup of the first quarter.

 

[4cwebb]

It may indeed be Adelman that needs to go, but I'm not convinced that he's the problem --- he was a couple of free throws and one CWebb knee injury away from a championship for two year running. The Kings had a solid defense when they had the right personnnel. The personnel is not quite right for a coach like Adelman right now to have the team excel at offense and play decent defense. Could another coach get these guys to play better defense? Perhaps. Would it result in more wins? Not certain at this point.