This is an honest question..... Many analysts claimed that we possibly have the best starting 5 in the league. If we get rid of Rick, do we stick to the same starting 5 and see if anybody else can get them to play up to their potential or we ship Peja, Brad or whoever and try something completely new?
I think if you fire him or he resigns, you really should go outside the current assistants looking for...I dunno. Mentioned Porter before. And Silas is out there, even thouhg he's mysteriously overrated.
In any case, ofttimes when you bring in a guy from the outside, a team will get a little "honeymoon" push where everybody will play harder trying to impress the new coach and the team will run off 4 or 5 wins. Its normally an illusion as things afterwards sink back to normal. But wiht a team like ours, even a false little high like that might be enough to spark something more permanent. Champions they are not. But they are, or should be, better than they are + just need to remember that. You obviously don't go hiring and firing people to get a meaningless handful of honeymoon games. But if those games can serve as a springboard to something more, you can always hope for something along the lines of the Karl effect last year.
In any case, ofttimes when you bring in a guy from the outside, a team will get a little "honeymoon" push where everybody will play harder trying to impress the new coach and the team will run off 4 or 5 wins. Its normally an illusion as things afterwards sink back to normal. But wiht a team like ours, even a false little high like that might be enough to spark something more permanent. Champions they are not. But they are, or should be, better than they are + just need to remember that. You obviously don't go hiring and firing people to get a meaningless handful of honeymoon games. But if those games can serve as a springboard to something more, you can always hope for something along the lines of the Karl effect last year.
While I don't agree that we should fire Adleman I think it is the easiest piece to change. A lot easier then trading someone, I think if an asst takes over we will see pretty much the same thing. Not sure any coach could help unless what this team needs is a system that fits them better.
Either way I would be surprised if RA lasts past this week.
Either way I would be surprised if RA lasts past this week.
the firing of rick adelman has been a hot topic in sacramento for a long time. if we were going to do it, we should have done it when george karl was available. i believe he is an excellent coach. i love how he always speaks his mind, goes to bat for his players, and pushes his players when they need to be pushed. now, what are our options? all i really see in the "possible coaches" pool are assistants, has-beens, and overrated former coaches turned TV analysts. change for the sake of change is bull**** if you're settling for less.
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Of course Karl was considered washed up before being revived in Denver too. He was known as the choker supreme -- the only man to ever lose to a #8 seed as a #1 seed, the first man to coach a team of Dream Teamers to embarassment, and a man who had become such a media coach that he lost his own team in Milwaulkee by constantly talking them down to the media.
There is almost nobody out on the market with a resume remotely comparable to Rick's. But when you are talking about a guy who is the 11th(?) winningest coach of all time, that's no surprise.
This is kind of what we are looking at:
Paul Silas -- solid, but while everybody always thinks he's the shiznit, just a sub .500 coach
Terry Porter -- unproven, but as a Adelman disciple might keep some of the same system in place
Lenny Wilkens -- all time winningest coach. Also all-time losingest coach, and really has seemed to lose it and grow incredibly passive and ineffectual in his dotage. Like a much older and less vibrant Rick.
Don Nelson -- do not think he is interested in coming back and is firmly attached to Dallas. Also of course, a worst nightmare for everybody worried that Rick does not focus on defense enough as the ultimate all-offense, no defesne coach.
Wisenhart? -- our WNBA coach? Know nothing about him as I don't folow the WNBA, but...really?
Doug Collins -- better as an analyst than a coach and loses his teams in record time by screeching at them too much. Can maybe get you to the playoffs, but hasn't won a series since the Reagan administration and is guaranteed to have the whole team hating him within 2 years.
PJ Carlesimo -- such an ******* one of his players tried to choke him to death, and the rest probably wished the guy had succeeded. Not like he was winning much before that incident. Capable of getting you to .500 and screamign at his players until they hate him. Also doubt the Spurs would release him midseason in a hoped for repeat championship year.
Eric Musselman -- unproven again and fired after two years. Showed some promise.
Thing is, if we are actually swinging into a true rebuilding mode here, not sure we need a big name coach. But we'll see.
There is almost nobody out on the market with a resume remotely comparable to Rick's. But when you are talking about a guy who is the 11th(?) winningest coach of all time, that's no surprise.
This is kind of what we are looking at:
Paul Silas -- solid, but while everybody always thinks he's the shiznit, just a sub .500 coach
Terry Porter -- unproven, but as a Adelman disciple might keep some of the same system in place
Lenny Wilkens -- all time winningest coach. Also all-time losingest coach, and really has seemed to lose it and grow incredibly passive and ineffectual in his dotage. Like a much older and less vibrant Rick.
Don Nelson -- do not think he is interested in coming back and is firmly attached to Dallas. Also of course, a worst nightmare for everybody worried that Rick does not focus on defense enough as the ultimate all-offense, no defesne coach.
Wisenhart? -- our WNBA coach? Know nothing about him as I don't folow the WNBA, but...really?
Doug Collins -- better as an analyst than a coach and loses his teams in record time by screeching at them too much. Can maybe get you to the playoffs, but hasn't won a series since the Reagan administration and is guaranteed to have the whole team hating him within 2 years.
PJ Carlesimo -- such an ******* one of his players tried to choke him to death, and the rest probably wished the guy had succeeded. Not like he was winning much before that incident. Capable of getting you to .500 and screamign at his players until they hate him. Also doubt the Spurs would release him midseason in a hoped for repeat championship year.
Eric Musselman -- unproven again and fired after two years. Showed some promise.
Thing is, if we are actually swinging into a true rebuilding mode here, not sure we need a big name coach. But we'll see.
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Bricklayer said:
Paul Silas -- solid, but while everybody always thinks he's the shiznit, just a sub .500 coach
Terry Porter -- unproven, but as a Adelman disciple might keep some of he same system in place
Lenny Wilkens -- all time winningest coach. Also all-time losingest coach, and really has seemed to lose it and grow incredibly passive and ineffectual in his dotage. Like a much older and less vibrant Rick.
Don Nelson -- do not think he is interested in coming back and is firmly attached to Dallas. Also of course, a worst nightmare for everybody worried that Rick does not focus on defense enough as the ultimate all-offense, no defesne coach.
Wisehhart? -- our WNBA coach? Know nothing about him as I don't folow the WNBA, but...really?
Doug Collins -- better as an analyst than a coach and loses his teams in record time by screeching at them too much. Can get you to the playoffs, but hasn't won a series since the Reagan administration.
Terry Porter -- unproven, but as a Adelman disciple might keep some of he same system in place
Lenny Wilkens -- all time winningest coach. Also all-time losingest coach, and really has seemed to lose it and grow incredibly passive and ineffectual in his dotage. Like a much older and less vibrant Rick.
Don Nelson -- do not think he is interested in coming back and is firmly attached to Dallas. Also of course, a worst nightmare for everybody worried that Rick does not focus on defense enough as the ultimate all-offense, no defesne coach.
Wisehhart? -- our WNBA coach? Know nothing about him as I don't folow the WNBA, but...really?
Doug Collins -- better as an analyst than a coach and loses his teams in record time by screeching at them too much. Can get you to the playoffs, but hasn't won a series since the Reagan administration.
Other option is to let Rick finish the season and go after a college coach in the offseason. An improbable run at Coach K? That carries a lot of risks given the apalling lack of success of most college coaches, but hey, if Mike Montgomery can turn the Warriors into a winning team anything is possible.
I'd just assume Adelman stay. If players can't flourish with the freedom his system allows they probably aren't champions anyway.
indeed.
i've always liked his style, though, despite his previous faults. it would have been nice if he'd had his "revival" in sacramento, though...
i've long been an adelman supporter, but i do recognize the sense of urgency and the need for change. my problem with this situation is i also do not believe in trading down (EX: WEBBER for THOMAS, SKINNER, WILLIAMSON). firing adelman and hiring anybody in the current coaching pool would be trading down. i would prefer to see adelman walk after his contract is up at the end of the season. that gives petrie/the maloofs more time to look at head coach possibilities, instead of scrambling to find a permanent replacement while one of the assistant coaches takes over. or would adelman's staff follow him? i don't really know how that would work.
i've always liked his style, though, despite his previous faults. it would have been nice if he'd had his "revival" in sacramento, though...
i've long been an adelman supporter, but i do recognize the sense of urgency and the need for change. my problem with this situation is i also do not believe in trading down (EX: WEBBER for THOMAS, SKINNER, WILLIAMSON). firing adelman and hiring anybody in the current coaching pool would be trading down. i would prefer to see adelman walk after his contract is up at the end of the season. that gives petrie/the maloofs more time to look at head coach possibilities, instead of scrambling to find a permanent replacement while one of the assistant coaches takes over. or would adelman's staff follow him? i don't really know how that would work.
Even though, by the logic of many, the firing of Adelman is the right thing to do and imminent - I personally think you will see players moved first. Up to and including the dismantling of the core as we know it. Petrie and Adelman are birds of a feather. I think firing Adelman will be his last option and not likely to be exercised.
Bricklayer said:
Of course Karl was considered washed up before being revived in Denver too. He was known as the choker supreme -- the only man to ever lose to a #8 seed as a #1 seed, the first man to coach a team of Dream Teamers to embarassment, and a man who had become such a media coach that he lost his own team in Milwaulkee by constantly talking them down to the media.
There is almost nobody out on the market with a resume remotely comparable to Rick's. But when you are talking about a guy who is the 11th(?) winningest coach of all time, that's no surprise.
This is kind of what we are looking at:
Paul Silas -- solid, but while everybody always thinks he's the shiznit, just a sub .500 coach
Terry Porter -- unproven, but as a Adelman disciple might keep some of the same system in place
Lenny Wilkens -- all time winningest coach. Also all-time losingest coach, and really has seemed to lose it and grow incredibly passive and ineffectual in his dotage. Like a much older and less vibrant Rick.
Don Nelson -- do not think he is interested in coming back and is firmly attached to Dallas. Also of course, a worst nightmare for everybody worried that Rick does not focus on defense enough as the ultimate all-offense, no defesne coach.
Wisenhart? -- our WNBA coach? Know nothing about him as I don't folow the WNBA, but...really?
Doug Collins -- better as an analyst than a coach and loses his teams in record time by screeching at them too much. Can maybe get you to the playoffs, but hasn't won a series since the Reagan administration and is guaranteed to have the whole team hating him within 2 years.
PJ Carlesimo -- such an ******* one of his players tried to choke him to death, and the rest probably wished the guy had succeeded. Not like he was winning much before that incident. Capable of getting you to .500 and screamign at his players until they hate him. Also doubt the Spurs would release him midseason in a hoped for repeat championship year.
Eric Musselman -- unproven again and fired after two years. Showed some promise.
Thing is, if we are actually swinging into a true rebuilding mode here, not sure we need a big name coach. But we'll see.
There is almost nobody out on the market with a resume remotely comparable to Rick's. But when you are talking about a guy who is the 11th(?) winningest coach of all time, that's no surprise.
This is kind of what we are looking at:
Paul Silas -- solid, but while everybody always thinks he's the shiznit, just a sub .500 coach
Terry Porter -- unproven, but as a Adelman disciple might keep some of the same system in place
Lenny Wilkens -- all time winningest coach. Also all-time losingest coach, and really has seemed to lose it and grow incredibly passive and ineffectual in his dotage. Like a much older and less vibrant Rick.
Don Nelson -- do not think he is interested in coming back and is firmly attached to Dallas. Also of course, a worst nightmare for everybody worried that Rick does not focus on defense enough as the ultimate all-offense, no defesne coach.
Wisenhart? -- our WNBA coach? Know nothing about him as I don't folow the WNBA, but...really?
Doug Collins -- better as an analyst than a coach and loses his teams in record time by screeching at them too much. Can maybe get you to the playoffs, but hasn't won a series since the Reagan administration and is guaranteed to have the whole team hating him within 2 years.
PJ Carlesimo -- such an ******* one of his players tried to choke him to death, and the rest probably wished the guy had succeeded. Not like he was winning much before that incident. Capable of getting you to .500 and screamign at his players until they hate him. Also doubt the Spurs would release him midseason in a hoped for repeat championship year.
Eric Musselman -- unproven again and fired after two years. Showed some promise.
Thing is, if we are actually swinging into a true rebuilding mode here, not sure we need a big name coach. But we'll see.
And unless the team structure is somehow significantly altered, that's largely pointless unless we have any hope of getting out of the first. This team, even with a new coach, is too inherently flawed to hope for that.
So, in sum, I'm resigned to the fact that Adleman will soon be gone, so go young, and see what happens in a year or two. Try to build some excitement for the future.
Don't fire him. PROMOTE HIM. That's what big corporations do when someone who has done really good runs out of steam. Make him the Assistant General Manager under Petrie, right next to the Director of Player Personnel. Then PROMOTE Elston Turner and have him turn loose the defensive dogs like Larry Brown did in Detroit.
Sure I'd love for my Kings to score 110 every night but I'd rather have wins at 85 and 90 points.
Sure I'd love for my Kings to score 110 every night but I'd rather have wins at 85 and 90 points.
The Pistons didn't promote anyone to get Brown, they fired Carisle. And the whole promotion thing is bs anyway, just to make both sides look better in terms of public relations. It would only be a matter of time before another team came looking for a coach, and if we didn't let Adelman go, we'd look even worse as an organization.
I already posted this else where but I thought it should actually go here........I know it just an espn artictle but it implicates don nelson as our next coach....Not sure what to think of that
Complete Insider Article:
Only the coldest of cold-hearted NBA owners would fire a coach on Christmas Eve, which is why it never happens.
Sure, Tim Floyd left the Chicago Bulls on that very day four years ago, but that was a resignation -- Floyd gave himself an early Christmas present by ending his misery after compiling a 49-190 record over three-plus seasons.
Last year, Jeff Bzdelik lost his job in Denver three days after Christmas, and in 2001, Dan Issel was fired by the Nuggets just one day after Christmas. Also, Lon Kruger lost his job in Atlanta on Dec. 26, 2002, so there's definitely a trend at work here.
This has been a relatively tranquil season in terms of coaching changes, especially compared to last season, when nine teams (Cleveland, Dallas, Denver, L.A. Lakers, Grizzlies, Timberwolves, Knicks, Magic, Trail Blazers) made midseason changes. Nobody has been fired, and only one coach -- Miami's Stan Van Gundy -- has resigned.
But remember, at this point a year ago, only one team -- the Grizzlies -- had changed head coaches. Lenny Wilkens lost his job in January, Flip Saunders and Rudy Tomjanovich were goners in February, and Don Nelson, Paul Silas, Johnny Davis and Maurice Cheeks all bit the dust in March.
In other words, plenty of time remains for someone to get the ax. Who will be the first to go? Insider handicaps the strongest contenders:
Adelman
Rick Adelman, Sacramento Kings. Odds of being the next coach fired: 2-1
The Kings seemed to be turning things around when Bonzi Wells' buzzer-beater gave them their third straight win Dec. 13, but that victory was followed by three straight losses to Detroit, San Antonio and Charlotte.
If Thursday night's game against Dallas ends in a loss, too, we can safely put the Dec. 26 home game against Portland in the "must-win" category for Adelman, a lame duck in the final year of his contract. The Kings have already lost seven times in Sacramento, which used to be the toughest place in the NBA for opponents to win. Geoff Petrie's friendship with Adelman might have bought him some time, but the Maloof brothers are running out of patience.
Who would replace Adelman? Just a hunch, but Don Nelson has a relationship with the Maloofs and even bought a condo from them in Las Vegas.
Weiss
Bob Weiss, Seattle SuperSonics. Odds: 3-1
The Sonics were 19-5 and the surprise of the league at Christmastime a year ago, and now they're 11-13 with the league's most porous defense. The Sonics also rank last in rebounding, and they've already had three three-game losing streaks, matching last season's total.
Asked about Weiss' job status a week ago, general manager Rick Sund was not exactly oozing warmth.
"You support your coach and you work with your coach at all times until he is no longer your coach. You don't put a timetable on it."
After home games against Dallas on Friday and Boston on Dec. 26, the Sonics will play seven of their next eight on the road. The most winnable game in that stretch is at New York Jan. 8, two nights after playing at Detroit. Could Jan. 7 be Weiss' day of doom?
Mitchell
Sam Mitchell, Toronto Raptors. Odds: 20-1
Mitchell's situation improved in the past couple of days, first when CEO Richard Peddie said he was against making midseason changes (Translation: They'll probably fire Mitchell and GM Rob Babcock after the season), and then with the Raptors' victory at Houston in which they limited Tracy McGrady to seven points. The Raps play four of their next five on the road, where they're 5-8. At home, they're a miserable 1-12.
Woodson
Mike Woodson, Atlanta Hawks. Odds: 30-1
Ever since Woodson received a strong vote of confidence from general manager Billy Knight, things have taken a turn for the better, including quality wins over Boston, San Antonio, Cleveland and Denver. Hard to ever say the Hawks have an easy upcoming schedule, but nine of their first 10 post-Christmas opponents have losing records.
Sloan
Jerry Sloan, Utah Jazz. Odds: 45-1
Any owner crazy enough to walk across the court and berate his team during a huddle (as Jazz owner Larry Miller did Nov. 14 in a home loss to the Knicks) might just be unstable enough to fire a coach now in his 18th season with Utah. For two years running, there has been an undercurrent of frustration in the organization with Sloan's player rotations.
Others:
Eddie Jordan, Washington Wizards. Odds: 50-1
The Seattle of the East in terms of taking a big step backward after a surprisingly good year. Think they miss Larry Hughes?
Jeff Van Gundy, Houston Rockets. Odds: 75-1
Hey, Van Gundys don't get fired, they resign. Yao Ming's toe surgery buys some more time for Jeff, whose club is 13th in the 15-team West.
Bernie Bickerstaff, Charlotte Bobcats. Odds: 200-1
Look, he's got Kevin Burleson, Alan Anderson and Bernard Robinson on his roster, and Robinson sometimes starts.
Larry Brown, New York Knicks. Odds: 1,000-1
It's now seven straight losses for Brown, who is due to rip Isiah Thomas' roster any minute now.
Chris Sheridan, a national NBA reporter for the past decade, covers the league for ESPN Insider.
Complete Insider Article:
Only the coldest of cold-hearted NBA owners would fire a coach on Christmas Eve, which is why it never happens.
Sure, Tim Floyd left the Chicago Bulls on that very day four years ago, but that was a resignation -- Floyd gave himself an early Christmas present by ending his misery after compiling a 49-190 record over three-plus seasons.
Last year, Jeff Bzdelik lost his job in Denver three days after Christmas, and in 2001, Dan Issel was fired by the Nuggets just one day after Christmas. Also, Lon Kruger lost his job in Atlanta on Dec. 26, 2002, so there's definitely a trend at work here.
This has been a relatively tranquil season in terms of coaching changes, especially compared to last season, when nine teams (Cleveland, Dallas, Denver, L.A. Lakers, Grizzlies, Timberwolves, Knicks, Magic, Trail Blazers) made midseason changes. Nobody has been fired, and only one coach -- Miami's Stan Van Gundy -- has resigned.
But remember, at this point a year ago, only one team -- the Grizzlies -- had changed head coaches. Lenny Wilkens lost his job in January, Flip Saunders and Rudy Tomjanovich were goners in February, and Don Nelson, Paul Silas, Johnny Davis and Maurice Cheeks all bit the dust in March.
In other words, plenty of time remains for someone to get the ax. Who will be the first to go? Insider handicaps the strongest contenders:
Adelman
Rick Adelman, Sacramento Kings. Odds of being the next coach fired: 2-1
The Kings seemed to be turning things around when Bonzi Wells' buzzer-beater gave them their third straight win Dec. 13, but that victory was followed by three straight losses to Detroit, San Antonio and Charlotte.
If Thursday night's game against Dallas ends in a loss, too, we can safely put the Dec. 26 home game against Portland in the "must-win" category for Adelman, a lame duck in the final year of his contract. The Kings have already lost seven times in Sacramento, which used to be the toughest place in the NBA for opponents to win. Geoff Petrie's friendship with Adelman might have bought him some time, but the Maloof brothers are running out of patience.
Who would replace Adelman? Just a hunch, but Don Nelson has a relationship with the Maloofs and even bought a condo from them in Las Vegas.
Weiss
Bob Weiss, Seattle SuperSonics. Odds: 3-1
The Sonics were 19-5 and the surprise of the league at Christmastime a year ago, and now they're 11-13 with the league's most porous defense. The Sonics also rank last in rebounding, and they've already had three three-game losing streaks, matching last season's total.
Asked about Weiss' job status a week ago, general manager Rick Sund was not exactly oozing warmth.
"You support your coach and you work with your coach at all times until he is no longer your coach. You don't put a timetable on it."
After home games against Dallas on Friday and Boston on Dec. 26, the Sonics will play seven of their next eight on the road. The most winnable game in that stretch is at New York Jan. 8, two nights after playing at Detroit. Could Jan. 7 be Weiss' day of doom?
Mitchell
Sam Mitchell, Toronto Raptors. Odds: 20-1
Mitchell's situation improved in the past couple of days, first when CEO Richard Peddie said he was against making midseason changes (Translation: They'll probably fire Mitchell and GM Rob Babcock after the season), and then with the Raptors' victory at Houston in which they limited Tracy McGrady to seven points. The Raps play four of their next five on the road, where they're 5-8. At home, they're a miserable 1-12.
Woodson
Mike Woodson, Atlanta Hawks. Odds: 30-1
Ever since Woodson received a strong vote of confidence from general manager Billy Knight, things have taken a turn for the better, including quality wins over Boston, San Antonio, Cleveland and Denver. Hard to ever say the Hawks have an easy upcoming schedule, but nine of their first 10 post-Christmas opponents have losing records.
Sloan
Jerry Sloan, Utah Jazz. Odds: 45-1
Any owner crazy enough to walk across the court and berate his team during a huddle (as Jazz owner Larry Miller did Nov. 14 in a home loss to the Knicks) might just be unstable enough to fire a coach now in his 18th season with Utah. For two years running, there has been an undercurrent of frustration in the organization with Sloan's player rotations.
Others:
Eddie Jordan, Washington Wizards. Odds: 50-1
The Seattle of the East in terms of taking a big step backward after a surprisingly good year. Think they miss Larry Hughes?
Jeff Van Gundy, Houston Rockets. Odds: 75-1
Hey, Van Gundys don't get fired, they resign. Yao Ming's toe surgery buys some more time for Jeff, whose club is 13th in the 15-team West.
Bernie Bickerstaff, Charlotte Bobcats. Odds: 200-1
Look, he's got Kevin Burleson, Alan Anderson and Bernard Robinson on his roster, and Robinson sometimes starts.
Larry Brown, New York Knicks. Odds: 1,000-1
It's now seven straight losses for Brown, who is due to rip Isiah Thomas' roster any minute now.
Chris Sheridan, a national NBA reporter for the past decade, covers the league for ESPN Insider.
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I really like R. A. and hopes that he stays the coach. However, the B. Skinner thing absolutely puzzles me. How does this guy not play? Everybody in world talks about our lack of a shot blocker in the middle. Well, that's because he is on the bench. It started last season after he got here, he looked really good and then was placed on the bench for most of the playoffs. This year he looked really good in the pre-season and now sits on the bench. Please - for the love of the Kings - put B.S. on the floor!