THE OFFICIAL: DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT TRADING DMC THREAD!!!

Should the Kings think about trading DMC?

  • Total voters
    119
funkykingston said:
I'd love to trade for Noel. . .

if Cousins is still on the team.

In fact, I've thought that if the Kings were to land in the top three either leapfrogging the Sixers and/or pushing the Lakers pick to sixth (which means Philly gets it) then it might be worth trying to swap picks and nab Noel.

Attached is a screenshot of ESPN's lotto simulator showing one scenario where that works out. The Kings jump up to #2 with the Magic jumping to #3 pushing Philly to #5 and LA to #6. If Minny takes Okafor then I could see the Kings staying pat and grabbing Towns. If Towns goes #1 then the question is whether or not to take Russell or Okafor or trade down. If The Sixers offered the fifth or sixth pick + Noel for the #2 I think I'd jump on that. Then at 5 or 6 you either trade down again or you grab Mudiay, Winslow or Porzingis depending on who is left.

Cousins/Thompson
Noel/Landry
Gay/Casspi
McLemore/Stauskas or whoever he can net you in trade
Mudiay/Collison/Miller

is a hell of a team. Or throwing Porzingas in as the backup PF and giving him time to grow as a high risk, high reward gamble would work too. You get your athletic weakside defender in Noel and your stretch 4 in Porzingis, a guy who could ALSO grow to become an athletic weakside defender in the NBA.

Nice.

And the icing on the cake is that the Lakers miss out on a lottery pick setting them up for another terrible season next year.

Yeah, it would require a ton of luck, but regardless of how the lottery plays out I see infinitely more ways the team can get better WITH Cousins in the fold vs getting better trading him.

In fact I would challenge anyone to give me a reasonable scenario where the Kings are better next year with Boogie playing for another squad.
Click to expand...

I have a very, very hard time seeing Philly trading up 3-5 spots with the difference being Noel. I'm not even sure they would do a Russell for Noel trade straight up. Noel is already showing signs he can be a successful big in the NBA. It's pretty risky to trade an up and coming player like that for an unknown like Russell.

If I was Philly and I landed the #1 pick, I'm doing two things. I draft Towns and trade Noel for a pick/young prospect, or I trade #1 and grab #3/#4 and a prospect along the way. Depending on who lands at #3 and #4, Muhammad/Lavine and #3/#4, Hardaway and #3/#4, Clarkson and #3/#4, Payton/Gordon and #3, or McLemore/Stauskas and #3 could all be possible deals. Rusell/Wroten/McLemore/Covington/Saric/Noel/Embiid would be a solid foundation to build on.

Personally, I would trade Noel if they got the first pick. Towns (in theory) would be a much better compliment to Embiid and I think Towns has more potential than Noel. With that being said, what could Noel alone get them in a trade? #3? #4? #5? #6? I would be willing to trade #6 straight up for him. I'm not sure if we would have to add any sweetener to that deal (McLemore/Stauskas).
 
twslam07 said:
I have a very, very hard time seeing Philly trading up 3-5 spots with the difference being Noel. I'm not even sure they would do a Russell for Noel trade straight up. Noel is already showing signs he can be a successful big in the NBA. It's pretty risky to trade an up and coming player like that for an unknown like Russell.

If I was Philly and I landed the #1 pick, I'm doing two things. I draft Towns and trade Noel for a pick/young prospect, or I trade #1 and grab #3/#4 and a prospect along the way. Depending on who lands at #3 and #4, Muhammad/Lavine and #3/#4, Hardaway and #3/#4, Clarkson and #3/#4, Payton/Gordon and #3, or McLemore/Stauskas and #3 could all be possible deals. Rusell/Wroten/McLemore/Covington/Saric/Noel/Embiid would be a solid foundation to build on.

Personally, I would trade Noel if they got the first pick. Towns (in theory) would be a much better compliment to Embiid and I think Towns has more potential than Noel. With that being said, what could Noel alone get them in a trade? #3? #4? #5? #6? I would be willing to trade #6 straight up for him. I'm not sure if we would have to add any sweetener to that deal (McLemore/Stauskas).
Click to expand...

i'm sure philly loves noel, and i'm sure they'd prefer not to trade him, but sam hinkie's plan hinges on the acquisition of a tranformative talent that he can build around. noel isn't that player. he's got all kinds of defensive potential, but he's never going to be a two-way superstar. hell, hinkie jettisoned michael carter-williams not because carter-williams couldn't be a part of philly's future, but because he was never likely to become the difference-maker that philly would need him to be, so they flipped him for another future first-rounder...

the sixers' tanking strategy is dependent upon their stockpile of draft picks yielding at least one potential superstar. if hinkie thinks he can get a superstar a few spots higher than where the sixers land in the lottery, then there is little doubt in my mind that he'll do whatever it takes to move up. that said, i'm not sure the top prospects in this particular draft constitute the kind of superstar-level potential that would pressure hinkie to make such a trade. if the ping pong balls don't bounce philly's way, it will be interesting to see how much heat he's feeling come draft day...
 
Padrino said:
i'm sure philly loves noel, and i'm sure they'd prefer not to trade him, but sam hinkie's plan hinges on the acquisition of a tranformative talent that he can build around. noel isn't that player. he's got all kinds of defensive potential, but he's never going to be a two-way superstar. hell, hinkie jettisoned michael carter-williams not because carter-williams couldn't be a part of philly's future, but because he was never likely to become the difference-maker that philly would need him to be, so they flipped him for another future first-rounder...

the sixers' tanking strategy is dependent upon their stockpile of draft picks yielding at least one potential superstar. if hinkie thinks he can get a superstar a few spots higher than where the sixers land in the lottery, then there is little doubt in my mind that he'll do whatever it takes to move up. that said, i'm not sure the top prospects in this particular draft constitute the kind of superstar-level potential that would pressure hinkie to make such a trade. if the ping pong balls don't bounce philly's way, it will be interesting to see how much heat he's feeling come draft day...
Click to expand...

I understand the logic. Don't settle for anything other than superstars in your rebuild. You need to get at least one player with that potential to begin building around. They might already have that in Embiid, but it's still a big question mark at this point.

I guess the reservations I have about it is that Towns, Okafor, Russell, & Mudiay all have good shots at being stars in this league. Do I consider Towns or Okafor to be very far ahead of Russell and Mudiay? No, I don't. So when you're already in a position to take a star player, why are you spending extra assets for another star player who isn't that far ahead? Especially when the player you can take is at a position of need (PG).
 
funkykingston said:
I'd love to trade for Noel. . .

if Cousins is still on the team.

In fact, I've thought that if the Kings were to land in the top three either leapfrogging the Sixers and/or pushing the Lakers pick to sixth (which means Philly gets it) then it might be worth trying to swap picks and nab Noel.

Attached is a screenshot of ESPN's lotto simulator showing one scenario where that works out. The Kings jump up to #2 with the Magic jumping to #3 pushing Philly to #5 and LA to #6. If Minny takes Okafor then I could see the Kings staying pat and grabbing Towns. If Towns goes #1 then the question is whether or not to take Russell or Okafor or trade down. If The Sixers offered the fifth or sixth pick + Noel for the #2 I think I'd jump on that. Then at 5 or 6 you either trade down again or you grab Mudiay, Winslow or Porzingis depending on who is left.

Cousins/Thompson
Noel/Landry
Gay/Casspi
McLemore/Stauskas or whoever he can net you in trade
Mudiay/Collison/Miller

is a hell of a team. Or throwing Porzingas in as the backup PF and giving him time to grow as a high risk, high reward gamble would work too. You get your athletic weakside defender in Noel and your stretch 4 in Porzingis, a guy who could ALSO grow to become an athletic weakside defender in the NBA.

Nice.

And the icing on the cake is that the Lakers miss out on a lottery pick setting them up for another terrible season next year.

Yeah, it would require a ton of luck, but regardless of how the lottery plays out I see infinitely more ways the team can get better WITH Cousins in the fold vs getting better trading him.

In fact I would challenge anyone to give me a reasonable scenario where the Kings are better next year with Boogie playing for another squad.
Click to expand...

I am up for your challenge.

Trading Demarcus:
Magic trade has been up in the air, so I'll take that one.
  1. Trade Cousins+Landry for Vucevic+Gordon+2015 1st round pick.

Vucevic is essentially a less talented Cousins who doesn't demand the ball as often. Nor does he need the ball in his hands to be very effective on offense.​

Gordon fits Karl's scheme perfectly. He'd be Manimal for our team.
​
Cap Space:
We have a rough estimate of $53million in total cap for next year. We'd actually save money with this deal. Approximately $6million, which basically covers for our two 1st round picks. The cap is expected to be raised to around $66.5million. We have $13.5million to work with in FA
​


I actually have two different scenarios that include the pieces I've just gained. I will not add any additional moves including trades and offseason. This will just give you an idea of what our roster could look like.

Here's scenario #1:
  • Magic have a 29.1% chance of getting a top 3 pick. Assume they do, and draft D'Angelo Russell
  • Use 6th overall pick to draft Justise Winslow

PG- D'Angelo Russell/Darren Collison
SG- Ben McLemore/Nik Stauskas/Ray McCallum
SF- Rudy Gay/Justise Winslow
PF- Aaron Gordon/Omri Casspi
C- Nikola Vucevic/Jason Thompson



Here's scenario #2:
  • Use 5th overall pick to draft Justise Winslow
  • Use 6th overall pick to draft Kristaphs Porzingis
PG- Darren Collison/David Stockton/Ray McCallum
SG- Ben McLemore/Nik Stauskas
SF- Rudy Gay/Justise Winslow
PF- Kristaphs Porzingis/Aaron Gordon
C- Nikola Vucevic/Jason Thompson

These would be starting moves without considering free agency and trades.

I'm not advocating that we trade for Cuz, but these are pieces that would probably imrpove our team a lot.
 
206Fan said:
I am up for your challenge.

Trading Demarcus:
Magic trade has been up in the air, so I'll take that one.
  1. Trade Cousins+Landry for Vucevic+Gordon+2015 1st round pick.

Vucevic is essentially a less talented Cousins who doesn't demand the ball as often. Nor does he need the ball in his hands to be very effective on offense.​

Gordon fits Karl's scheme perfectly. He'd be Manimal for our team.
​
Cap Space:
We have a rough estimate of $53million in total cap for next year. We'd actually save money with this deal. Approximately $6million, which basically covers for our two 1st round picks. The cap is expected to be raised to around $66.5million. We have $13.5million to work with in FA
​


I actually have two different scenarios that include the pieces I've just gained. I will not add any additional moves including trades and offseason. This will just give you an idea of what our roster could look like.

Here's scenario #1:
  • Magic have a 29.1% chance of getting a top 3 pick. Assume they do, and draft D'Angelo Russell
  • Use 6th overall pick to draft Justise Winslow

PG- D'Angelo Russell/Darren Collison
SG- Ben McLemore/Nik Stauskas/Ray McCallum
SF- Rudy Gay/Justise Winslow
PF- Aaron Gordon/Omri Casspi
C- Nikola Vucevic/Jason Thompson



Here's scenario #2:
  • Use 5th overall pick to draft Justise Winslow
  • Use 6th overall pick to draft Kristaphs Porzingis
PG- Darren Collison/David Stockton/Ray McCallum
SG- Ben McLemore/Nik Stauskas
SF- Rudy Gay/Justise Winslow
PF- Kristaphs Porzingis/Aaron Gordon
C- Nikola Vucevic/Jason Thompson

These would be starting moves without considering free agency and trades.

I'm not advocating that we trade for Cuz, but these are pieces that would probably imrpove our team a lot.
Click to expand...

History has shown that's not the way it works.
 
Bricklayer said:
History has shown that's not the way it works.
Click to expand...
There haven't been a lot of franchise players that have been traded. Let alone a franchise player who's never carried his team to success.


With or without Boogie, I think it's pretty safe to say that next season we will be better. It's not that hard to surpass the last 8 terrible years..
 
If we trade DMC than I'm pretty sure that means we would have to move Rudy Gay, I seriously doubt he would want to be the #1 guy (he probably knows at this point he was never capable of it anyway) on another 25-28 win team. We would literally have a completely new team something I''m not for or against.
 
206Fan said:
I am up for your challenge.

Trading Demarcus:
Magic trade has been up in the air, so I'll take that one.
  1. Trade Cousins+Landry for Vucevic+Gordon+2015 1st round pick.

Vucevic is essentially a less talented Cousins who doesn't demand the ball as often. Nor does he need the ball in his hands to be very effective on offense.​

Gordon fits Karl's scheme perfectly. He'd be Manimal for our team.
​
Cap Space:
We have a rough estimate of $53million in total cap for next year. We'd actually save money with this deal. Approximately $6million, which basically covers for our two 1st round picks. The cap is expected to be raised to around $66.5million. We have $13.5million to work with in FA
​


I actually have two different scenarios that include the pieces I've just gained. I will not add any additional moves including trades and offseason. This will just give you an idea of what our roster could look like.

Here's scenario #1:
  • Magic have a 29.1% chance of getting a top 3 pick. Assume they do, and draft D'Angelo Russell
  • Use 6th overall pick to draft Justise Winslow

PG- D'Angelo Russell/Darren Collison
SG- Ben McLemore/Nik Stauskas/Ray McCallum
SF- Rudy Gay/Justise Winslow
PF- Aaron Gordon/Omri Casspi
C- Nikola Vucevic/Jason Thompson



Here's scenario #2:
  • Use 5th overall pick to draft Justise Winslow
  • Use 6th overall pick to draft Kristaphs Porzingis
PG- Darren Collison/David Stockton/Ray McCallum
SG- Ben McLemore/Nik Stauskas
SF- Rudy Gay/Justise Winslow
PF- Kristaphs Porzingis/Aaron Gordon
C- Nikola Vucevic/Jason Thompson

These would be starting moves without considering free agency and trades.

I'm not advocating that we trade for Cuz, but these are pieces that would probably imrpove our team a lot.
Click to expand...

I do believe that Magic deal came from Bill Simmons and isn't an actual rumor. And of course any deal would be done post-lottery so the teams would know exactly what was being traded. That said, I fail to see either of those teams being better than the Kings this year. We can argue about the long term but the idea of starting Russell at PG or Porzingis at PF already signifies a rebuilding (and thus losing) team.

KingMilz said:
If we trade DMC than I'm pretty sure that means we would have to move Rudy Gay, I seriously doubt he would want to be the #1 guy (he probably knows at this point he was never capable of it anyway) on another 25-28 win team. We would literally have a completely new team something I''m not for or against.
Click to expand...

And that's the other big thing. In both cases Gay is now your first option. That has been a recipe for disaster in every case.

Again, we can argue about the long term but NEXT season I don't see a way the Kings are better without Cousins than they would be with him. And if that's the case then the team should have either gone scorched earth two offseasons ago or they should now find a way to surround Boogie with talent. Otherwise you're opening a new arena with another sub 30 win team and with the fans upset over the Malone firing AND the Cousins trade.
 
I get the impression Grant wasn't just spouting off rhetoric for ratings but rather someone(s) in the organization did tell him to bring up the idea of trading Cuz as a feeler towards the fan base, to gauge reaction. My guess also is it came from the PDA/Karl side of things and it's evidence there is a split, a faction, whatever you want to call it within the FO.

And then the Vlade, acting as the Godfather came in and said "enough is enough". He basically cut that nonsense off at the knees in the interview/article and made damn clear Cuz is our franchise player, he isn't going anywhere and that we've point blank failed in surrounding him with good talent and that needs to change ASAP. Given he and Grant are close I wouldn't be surprised if he reached out to redhead and said "hey, do me a favor and knock it off, you're not helping anything".

So it's quite a positive in my eyes that Vlade gets it. Everything he's said since his arrival suggests he knows what's needed to turn this thing around. But I also think we're getting little peaks into the FO dysfunction and what he's up against as I point blank do not think the entire FO is on the same page nor do they support bringing Vlade in. Unfortunately for them, he appears to be higher up the ladder and they'll have to answer to him.

I think I'm going to start calling him The Vladfather. Just come in and lay down the law, cut out the incompetence.
 
rainmaker said:
I get the impression Grant wasn't just spouting off rhetoric for ratings but rather someone(s) in the organization did tell him to bring up the idea of trading Cuz as a feeler towards the fan base, to gauge reaction. My guess also is it came from the PDA/Karl side of things and it's evidence there is a split, a faction, whatever you want to call it within the FO.

And then the Vlade, acting as the Godfather came in and said "enough is enough". He basically cut that nonsense off at the knees in the interview/article and made damn clear Cuz is our franchise player, he isn't going anywhere and that we've point blank failed in surrounding him with good talent and that needs to change ASAP. Given he and Grant are close I wouldn't be surprised if he reached out to redhead and said "hey, do me a favor and knock it off, you're not helping anything".

So it's quite a positive in my eyes that Vlade gets it. Everything he's said since his arrival suggests he knows what's needed to turn this thing around. But I also think we're getting little peaks into the FO dysfunction and what he's up against as I point blank do not think the entire FO is on the same page nor do they support bringing Vlade in. Unfortunately for them, he appears to be higher up the ladder and they'll have to answer to him.

I think I'm going to start calling him The Vladfather. Just come in and lay down the law, cut out the incompetence.
Click to expand...
I have a hard time believing that they didn't know exactly how fans would react to trading Cuz. Grant is just grant...he never liked Cuz.
 
It's hard to say, since I didn't hear the broadcasts when he went after Cuz, but of course NApear doesn't like Demarcus -

has anyone ever heard Demarcus grant Grant an interview on his show?
I believe Demarcus boycotted Grant since his first season here.

I could easily be wrong, but has anyone ever heard Demarcus talk to Grant on any medium other than his after-game interviews? I can't remember any....
 
For those that talk about 1st round picks, where do you think DMC would go if everyone knew that he'd wreck the league like this? No further than 3 unanimously. Stick him in a lot of drafts in other years and he'd go #1. There aren't go to post forces anymore. That's partly why they've moved to guards and 3s. DMC has a chance to change all that. All your high skill traditional post bigs are past their prime or have never been able to be full time #1 guys (Big Al, Gasol, Gasol, Horford, Timmy, Zbo). If you got one, use him to punish the league.

And for a guy who's biggest issues/concerns were maturity, he landed in the worst possible franchise to help him change it and change perception. Yet he still made a path to stardom. You don't give up on that. What's your best case scenario if you do? Trade him for a potential guy, a starter, and a high first round pick? Let's say it all pans out. Get a nice balanced run n gun team with a lower tier star and maybe get into the second round. You want a home run ticket? It's DMC. Maybe it won't work out. But I'd rather swing for a small chance at a championship than a slightly larger chance at playoffs.

Plus, his max contract was signed under the old revenue. When the new cap gets done, we will be able to go after another game changer or some overpriced 3 and D guys. That only happens if you show that your team is professional. And you do that with continuity and respect. Respect the process of building a team. Respect that at its core, you have to form chemistry slowly. DMC respects it, which is why he is still here. Let's give him some respect back and at least give him a real chance to see what he can do with a full team and not some science experiment that Vivek decided we wanted.
 
IfAt1st said:
It's hard to say, since I didn't hear the broadcasts when he went after Cuz, but of course NApear doesn't like Demarcus -

has anyone ever heard Demarcus grant Grant an interview on his show?
I believe Demarcus boycotted Grant since his first season here.

I could easily be wrong, but has anyone ever heard Demarcus talk to Grant on any medium other than his after-game interviews? I can't remember any....
Click to expand...

 
206Fan said:
I am up for your challenge.

Trading Demarcus:
Magic trade has been up in the air, so I'll take that one.
  1. Trade Cousins+Landry for Vucevic+Gordon+2015 1st round pick.

Vucevic is essentially a less talented Cousins who doesn't demand the ball as often. Nor does he need the ball in his hands to be very effective on offense.​

Gordon fits Karl's scheme perfectly. He'd be Manimal for our team.
​
Cap Space:
We have a rough estimate of $53million in total cap for next year. We'd actually save money with this deal. Approximately $6million, which basically covers for our two 1st round picks. The cap is expected to be raised to around $66.5million. We have $13.5million to work with in FA
​


I actually have two different scenarios that include the pieces I've just gained. I will not add any additional moves including trades and offseason. This will just give you an idea of what our roster could look like.

Here's scenario #1:
  • Magic have a 29.1% chance of getting a top 3 pick. Assume they do, and draft D'Angelo Russell
  • Use 6th overall pick to draft Justise Winslow

PG- D'Angelo Russell/Darren Collison
SG- Ben McLemore/Nik Stauskas/Ray McCallum
SF- Rudy Gay/Justise Winslow
PF- Aaron Gordon/Omri Casspi
C- Nikola Vucevic/Jason Thompson



Here's scenario #2:
  • Use 5th overall pick to draft Justise Winslow
  • Use 6th overall pick to draft Kristaphs Porzingis
PG- Darren Collison/David Stockton/Ray McCallum
SG- Ben McLemore/Nik Stauskas
SF- Rudy Gay/Justise Winslow
PF- Kristaphs Porzingis/Aaron Gordon
C- Nikola Vucevic/Jason Thompson

These would be starting moves without considering free agency and trades.

I'm not advocating that we trade for Cuz, but these are pieces that would probably imrpove our team a lot.
Click to expand...


Lolol
 
That Demarcus interview looks to be from his first season.
That was before Grant started attacked him mercilessly.
I would guess that Demarcus has boycotted Grant since then (and has every right to, the way Grant has treated him).
And Grant has been more than willing to be a petulant child and attack Demarcus ever since, instead of being a grown up and apologizing to Demarcus for the way he's treated him (if he expects DMC to come onto his show).

Like I said, has there been any interview after his first season?
 
IfAt1st said:
That Demarcus interview looks to be from his first season.
That was before Grant started attacked him mercilessly.
I would guess that Demarcus has boycotted Grant since then (and has every right to, the way Grant has treated him).
And Grant has been more than willing to be a petulant child and attack Demarcus ever since, instead of being a grown up and apologizing to Demarcus for the way he's treated him (if he expects DMC to come onto his show).

Like I said, has there been any interview after his first season?
Click to expand...

Well there is this.


Not exactly sure what was said but the if the description is correct, DMC hasn't liked Grant for a while.

EDIt: You can hear better here.

 
I don't mind Grants play by play. The radio is a bit extreme at times. But hey it's radio gotta get people to tune in.
 
Highly doubt they trade Cousins....it would be just another move that showed instability and .....just would be dumb. But if, IF they were hellbent on dealing him, I'm going to want back a guy like Russell Westbrook or some other proven star player....someone elite. No thanks to any deal where we get back 3 prospects or young guys who still haven't quite proven themselves.
 
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