fansinceday1
Starter
As hrdboild has pointed out, if the kings do end up trading boogie, we will not get back anywhere near what boogie is worth. It just doesn't happen like that.
THE OFFICIAL: DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT TRADING DMC THREAD!!!
- Thread starter ockingsfan
- Start date
I had some doubt about Collison as a starting PG but he really looked like the right fit for a Gay and Boogie led team. Pesky defender, willing passer, nice midrange jumper, decent outside shooter and a guy who not only bought into his role but looked to be a definite plus for team chemistry. While Lawson is a better player I'd be upset if we traded Collison for Lawson both in terms of fit and especially in terms of salary difference.
But to entertain the idea of trading Cousins for Lawson and Faried? Napear mentioned it apparently being a tough decision and Jason Ross was saying today at lunch (during the little bit I caught) that he liked that trade IF the team decided to trade Cousins. What?
I mean, what?
How can you watch NBA basketball, let alone CALL games and think that's anywhere near an even deal for the Kings? The Nuggets didn't even WANT to give Faried a big contract. They knew their options were to overpay or lose him for nothing and they had a tough time with that decision. I love his hustle and his heart but he's a role player on a good team, not a star. Napear blames Cousins for not being good enough to lead his team to the playoffs but thinks somehow Faried and Lawson are an upgrade in talent from a 24 year old center putting up 24 & 12 and growing by leaps and bounds in all areas including defense and passing?
There's been WAY too much KHTK talk about trading Cousins over the last week or so for this to just be coincidence. The ONLY long shot scenario where trading Cousins improves the team is if it's for a draft pick who becomes a superstar talent. I like Towns and Okafor and Russell a lot (especially KAT and Russell) but I don't see any of them being better than DeMarcus so that leaves me with the conclusion that there isn't a way for the Kings to trade Cousins and get better. There's a reason why we have the following general NBA adages:
Cousins is at worst a top three C in the league and I personally think he's the most talented one. And he's certainly the youngest star big outside of Anthony Davis. And while there are equal or better players than Boogie in the NBA (Curry, Durant, LeBron, Harden, Anthony) none of them are available so that point is moot. If the Kings trade Cousins the other team will end up with the best player who just happens to be a young big coming into his prime. And as we've discussed over and over, Cousin's reputation is still such that it may well limit what he'd return.
This wouldn't be the team shooting itself in the foot. This would be blowing the leg clean off and still inexplicably expecting to run faster.
But to entertain the idea of trading Cousins for Lawson and Faried? Napear mentioned it apparently being a tough decision and Jason Ross was saying today at lunch (during the little bit I caught) that he liked that trade IF the team decided to trade Cousins. What?
I mean, what?
How can you watch NBA basketball, let alone CALL games and think that's anywhere near an even deal for the Kings? The Nuggets didn't even WANT to give Faried a big contract. They knew their options were to overpay or lose him for nothing and they had a tough time with that decision. I love his hustle and his heart but he's a role player on a good team, not a star. Napear blames Cousins for not being good enough to lead his team to the playoffs but thinks somehow Faried and Lawson are an upgrade in talent from a 24 year old center putting up 24 & 12 and growing by leaps and bounds in all areas including defense and passing?
There's been WAY too much KHTK talk about trading Cousins over the last week or so for this to just be coincidence. The ONLY long shot scenario where trading Cousins improves the team is if it's for a draft pick who becomes a superstar talent. I like Towns and Okafor and Russell a lot (especially KAT and Russell) but I don't see any of them being better than DeMarcus so that leaves me with the conclusion that there isn't a way for the Kings to trade Cousins and get better. There's a reason why we have the following general NBA adages:
- Don't trade big for small
- Don't trade young for old
- The team that gets the best player wins the trade
Cousins is at worst a top three C in the league and I personally think he's the most talented one. And he's certainly the youngest star big outside of Anthony Davis. And while there are equal or better players than Boogie in the NBA (Curry, Durant, LeBron, Harden, Anthony) none of them are available so that point is moot. If the Kings trade Cousins the other team will end up with the best player who just happens to be a young big coming into his prime. And as we've discussed over and over, Cousin's reputation is still such that it may well limit what he'd return.
This wouldn't be the team shooting itself in the foot. This would be blowing the leg clean off and still inexplicably expecting to run faster.
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rhythmless
Starter
To add this this, I don't even believe he's coming into his prime. DMC's weak spot has been that he has never been explosive for blocks or rebounds. He's just big and skilled. The early knock was that he never got blocks because he can't jump as fast or as high. But he's figured out how to stay bigger and not reach as much, which means he's getting blocks just by being big. This means that as he continues to gain more skill, his athleticism will not drop as much. He's a more reckless, more talented blend of the Gasol brothers, basically.
ockingsfan
Starter
If Vivek and the FO thought the backlash from firing Michael Malone was bad, I can not even imagine what a DMC trade would do.
Seriously, IF the FO were to trade DMC, I think that a huge portion of the season ticket holders would just out right cancel their tickets.
Honestly, I could see the New Downtown Arena opening to a half empty (if they are lucky) arena come Opening Night 2016.
Seriously, IF the FO were to trade DMC, I think that a huge portion of the season ticket holders would just out right cancel their tickets.
Honestly, I could see the New Downtown Arena opening to a half empty (if they are lucky) arena come Opening Night 2016.
lawlman91
Starter
I won't be mad -- in fact happy, if Michael Malone becomes the head coach of the Magic:
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...ch-latest-news-rumors-speculation-on-position
And then DMC gets traded for Vucevic and stuff. By then, I'll be following the Magic, because I loved that DeMarcus/Malone duo. That would be the stuff of dreams.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...ch-latest-news-rumors-speculation-on-position
And then DMC gets traded for Vucevic and stuff. By then, I'll be following the Magic, because I loved that DeMarcus/Malone duo. That would be the stuff of dreams.
IfAt1st
Starter
In a rational world, with a credible media, this argument would be ridiculed, not parroted.
Big Cuz 15
All-Star
they need to dump that jackass napear. i'm not at all shocked he turned on cousins, again-. he was trashing him prior to vivek taking over. he changed his tune quick once the new regime deemed him the franchise player. he also showed his true colors during the time when the kings were looking to move and he gave it to the concerned fans.
Big Cuz 15
All-Star
i haven't watched the past 20 or so games. i'll completely tune out if they trade cuz. i don't have any faith in their ability to run a franchise.
I liked Bobby Jackson as a player, but he's completely out of his depth on this one. He was never a franchise player, he was a player that nobody else wanted who played five great seasons as a backup guard in Sacramento and not much after. He's going to tell me Cousins is expendable despite the fact that he just averaged 28 points, 18 rebounds, 7 assists, 3 blocks, and 1.5 steals over his last 4 games because the team isn't winning enough? And you're going to take his word for it why? Because he's a former King? I don't get that. Whether Grant Napear says it or Jerry Reynolds says it or Bobby Jackson or Charles Barkley or anyone else, it's still just as wrong.
John Galt
Starter
Can't cancel as far as I know. They got us by the balls on false pretenses. Deposits paid by now make it prohibitive to cancel after Vivek destroys the team. It is a rough spot.
John Galt
Starter
Me too. I will wear a Magic jersey with COUSINS on the back to the games. I will actively root for the Magic in that case - right across the court looking at lil V.
NOT my point. My thought was all this hoopla about DMC is to mask something totally different.
Kingster
Hall of Famer
Napier was asking his audience today: Who do you think five years from now will have a better team - Kings, NY Knicks, or the Lakers? (Pardon me, but it may not have been exactly 5 years, but it was something like that). Then he named various factors that you would look at in your decision on the matter - the current roster, the coach, the market, etc. He left out the most important factor of all - THE ORGANIZATION. To me, it's no brainer - the Lakers (sorry, but it is). Why? Mitch Kupchack. That's why. He's had a proven record of success for many years. Nobody in the either the Knicks or the Kings is remotely close in approximating Kupchack's record. Phil Jackson has a record as a coach, not a GM. Vlade has a record as a player, with some administrative experience. Again, not as GM. PDA? No way. It's a crap shoot with either the Kings' or Knicks' organizations at this point. Ironically, Napier in his monologue mentioned the fact that the Kings org got nothing for Isaiah Thomas, who now is in the running for 6th man of the year. In so doing, he answered his own question: If you don't have the organization, you've got nothing. A lousy organization is going to give assets away for pennies on the dollar and a lousy organization isn't going to recognize talent if their lives depended on it.
PS If Vlade brings in a legit GM, everything changes. But right now, the Kings org is at the bottom of the barrel, imo.
PS If Vlade brings in a legit GM, everything changes. But right now, the Kings org is at the bottom of the barrel, imo.
K
Kingsguy881
Guest
Trade Cousins and I am done. I got rid of my cable when they fired Malone, but have listened to every game since. Trade DeMarcus and I'm probably done as a fan. I have only bought 2 jerseys in 30 years as a Kings fan. Webber and Cousins. I understood Webber's leaving. I would not understand DeMarcus leaving. Vivek, I implore you. Please. Do not be this dumb. Please. Please!
rainmaker
Hall of Famer
Becoming pretty apparent this is a talking point pushed by the Kings to their PR arms. Also sounds dumb enough that Leslie came up with it.
And where there's smoke....
K
Kingsguy881
Guest
Wait a tick. The Kings are up 20 on the D LEAGUE Fakers! Trade Cousins!!
'89 Kings Fan
Bench
The only good news would be that I would save a lot of money on my cable bill and have a lot more free time, because I would quit being a fan at that point.
So is jodi.bacon@kthk.com the best place to give KHTK management a piece of my mind?
Since I am in LA I get to listen to every other broadcast team and Grant and Jerry are the worst in the league, the only ones who come close are the Clippers announcers.
So is jodi.bacon@kthk.com the best place to give KHTK management a piece of my mind?
Since I am in LA I get to listen to every other broadcast team and Grant and Jerry are the worst in the league, the only ones who come close are the Clippers announcers.
Kingsgurl
Starter
One of the things the FO needs to e very aware of is this is a fan base who has survived 30 years, many of them awful. We have seen and heard the 'next year' dance innumerable times. DeMarcus Cousins is a once in a lifetime type player, especially for a team as snake bit in the draft as we are. A legit future Hall of Famer, full of heart, passion and will to win. The type of player Championships are built on. You HAVE that player. Your job is to put people around HIM and make this work. The hard part is done. If they manage to mess this up and trade him (and I don't care the why either, this includes if they mess up making him feel wanted and he demands a trade) then I, too, won't be watching anymore, I won't be attending games and I won't be buying merchandise. As a fanbase, we have been beyond loyal, we have supported and cheered and suffered, but there is a point that it all adds up to just too much. I can't, and won't, support that degree of stupidity.
Jerichoholic
Bench
First I just have to say, excellent post Funkykingston!
I totally agree with you in that the trade makes so sense at all. Look I am open to trading any player if it can make the team better in the long run, being stubborn for the sake of being stubborn doesn't fix anything, Cousins is can be traded, but not for this. It just doesn't make sense any either side. It's bad because we lose Cousins, a potential all-time great center and in return we get two players that really don't solve our main problems. This team needs a distributing point guard and consistent outside shooters that can spread the floor, that is what I believe this offseason is mainly about. Lawson is mainly a penetrating point guard who shoots too much and Faried is an excellent effort guy, but definitely doesn't spread the floor. However I think this is just fan speculation, I doubt this trade has ever even been discussed among the teams.
Trading for a draft pick or two doesn't really fit either because what are the odds that we get one player let alone two that will be even close to as good as Cousins? The answer is not good. Why trade a superstar for a player who might one day become a superstar? I do understand the want to acquire a star level perimeter player to go with Cousins, can you imagine how good we would be with a guy like Harden and Cousins together? It could be championship time. It doesn't work if Cousins isn't in the picture though, as you said, don't trade big for small.
Bottom line though is I think we are going to be fine. All reports I've read have said that the organization, Divac and Karl included think that Cousins could potentially be the greatest center ever, they are that high on him. I don't see him getting traded. The only real concern is the relationship between Cousins and Karl from a personal standpoint. They both need to grow up a little in this area. Most reports have said that while they are not at odds yet, they really aren't sure of each other, still a feeling out process. I'm guessing that Cousins still hasn't accepted the fact that Michael Malone is gone and he needs to get over it. Karl needs to be more understanding of Cousins as a person and not just another player, Cousins is a little different, almost needs to be babied a little, right or wrong, it is what it is and Karl as a head coach needs to work with that.
This was always the concern with Karl though, and especially Karl at the end of his career. We don't know how much he's going to want to meddle and how great the attraction is for "his" guys. Cousins is tough to coach and he's not sure how to use a dominant big? Just trade him for the known quantities in Lawson and Faried.
I hope Vlade has the sense to get everyone on the same page and aware of the fact that building around Cousins is the best way forward.
After all, if the Kings wanted to strip the team down and start over the time to do that was two summers ago. You can't sell the fans on "we're going to retool on the fly and build a winner ASAP" and then burn the thing to the ground two years later.
I hope Vlade has the sense to get everyone on the same page and aware of the fact that building around Cousins is the best way forward.
After all, if the Kings wanted to strip the team down and start over the time to do that was two summers ago. You can't sell the fans on "we're going to retool on the fly and build a winner ASAP" and then burn the thing to the ground two years later.
Hoovtrain
All-Star
I would think that if anyone would see the value in a skilled, elite C....it would be Vlade. Hopefully he is not on the trade DMC train, because they are not going to get anything close to fair value
Nope. And I don't want to see any trade for Lawson, especially if it involves Cuz. Boogie to Orlando for Vucci Mane and the Magic's pick is the best scenario I've heard and (1) that's still pennies on the dollar for what Cousins could become and (2) there's no indication that Orlando would even offer it.
Unfortunately, all the talk about Cuz deals has gotten me thinking about what I WOULD accept in return and might kind of possibly be available. Dumb little musings and rumblings have a nasty way of turning into something concrete.
Basically, it's Philly's top pick this season and Noel or Embiid. If we're going to be dumb, let's at least be dumb and jump start the rebuild while we're at it.
Here's what it would take for me: (and again, in no shape, way, or form do I want to trade Cousins.)
Top Pick (Maybe top 5, top 3 preferred)
Promising Young Star
Quality Seasoned Vet
Then, in addition to our own pick (which no way in hell do we move), I'd at least wait until draft night to torch/pitchfork the entire Sacramento Valley (sorry for the casualties), but I just don't trust the FO to come out ahead. They can't possibly, given their past history of negotiation and talent bleeding.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
My sole solace in all this is that if it were ever to happen I would get to enjoy the sight of Cuz stomping through the valley like Godzilla in a mosh pit whenever he returned. He's got the right attitude for that in spades, and thrives on those rivalry type games vs. A.D. etc.
Jerichoholic
Bench
This is along the lines of what I would consider as well, but we would still be gambling away sure talent for potential. Now we would get quality depth which is sorely needed, but we lose the star player in the process. To be worth it the top pick and the promising young star would need to end up as borderline all-stars with the quality veteran a consistent bench performer, it would be like trading Cousins for Mike Conley, Zach Randolph, and Courtney Lee. I would certainly consider this offer, but I'm not sure I'd take it.
The big question is, what could this team be with Cousins and actual talent around him? This team is bad, outside of Cousins and Gay we have a roster of fringe NBA players. We haven't had a rookie develop well since Cousins. It may not take much either, probably best to find out.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
I have watched the NBA for a long time. You know what I have NEVER seen in 30+ years? I have never seen a team trade away a young HOF caliber big just entering his prime and come away ahead. Ever. This is a flat rule dating back to the early days of the league. You trade Kareem (under duress) you never recover. You trade Parrish and McHale, ****ed. Barkley was later in his prime, but still Philly was ****ed. Shaq was a disaster. Mourning, Webber...you just don't do it. You do NOT do it.
And of course smart teams don't. Not with Mailman, Hakeem, Admiral, Ewing, Duncan, KG, Dirk, etc. If any of those guys moved on, it was late in their careers after their runs were over and they'd taken their shots. To trade one of them before he and you even got going? So catastrophically stupid I will have no part of this franchise if they ever do it. More than that, sorry to any remaining Kings fan (singular) after that event, but I'll be actively rooting for the franchise to sink right into the ocean. It is wrongheadedness so extreme nothing but an extinction level meteor strike could be sure to stamp it out.
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